Nick Mathison
Strangford · Alliance Party · Northern Ireland
“That second part is important. In the scrutiny of the Minister's Bill on school uniforms, we got a little tied up over how we could build in provisions on PE, but, when we got to work on this Bill, we found that there is a simple formulation that will ensure that participation in sport and PE, which, we should remember, is a statutory par…”
“<BR /> <BR />On the basis of that feedback and the other evidence that we received, two draft approaches to developing the Bill were considered. The first was to create a separate, stand-alone Bill with a stand-alone right for pupils to be afforded the choice to wear trousers and to set that out in law.”
“Many schools do that really well, but others, regrettably, do not. To me, only legislation will guarantee the behaviour change that we need. It is not good enough for a Minister to say to young people, "But I give you permission to go and campaign. You run the campaign. Look at Rhea and Astrid: didn't they do so well?".”
“I will name a few: the school uniform must be affordable, so schools have no autonomy on that; and schools must consult with parents when they are changing their policy, so they have no autonomy on that. I could go through every one of the guidelines.”
“depending on the activity. That was to ensure that the need for appropriate clothing for sporting activities was reflected. <BR /> <BR />Ultimately, it is a permissive Bill. It is simply focused on creating a universal right to have the choice to wear trousers and enshrining that in the guidance.”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I will not speak for long, and I do not plan to rehearse everything that has been said. However, I begin by doing something that I overlooked when I spoke at the beginning: thanking the Deputy Chair of the Committee who first proposed the Bill.”
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“We need to ensure that we offer pathways that are right for our young people and our economy. We are not in that space right now. <BR /> <BR />The gateway review of the 14-19 framework came out in January 2024. Very clear issues were highlighted around ineffective governance, unclear objectives, misalignment between the programme and the stakeholders' objectives, the duplication of effort between Economy and Education, limited management of how we were going to monitor delivery — the list goes on. Things have improved — the situation has shifted from a red rating to an amber one — but we are still very far from where we need to be. The focus on the funding model is important, but that, on its own, is not going to be enough.”
“Some of the key objectives that were set out include the need to address the lack of parity between academic and vocational qualifications; to agree clearly the role and purpose of post-16 provision; to create access to qualifications that facilitate progression; and to have access to quality careers advice, which has been referenced by nearly every contributor. It seems as though we are still struggling to see any real progress in that regard. Schools and FE, as has been referenced, often compete for scarce resource. The post-16 landscape is still, unfortunately, dominated by progression to A levels and university as the preferred pathway, with FE, apprenticeships and other options seen as the poor cousin. That is not a healthy ecosystem in which to find ourselves, or in which to place our young people.”
“We are all on the same page, which is not something that we can say about every issue. <BR /> <BR />I will speak to the 14-19 education and training framework specifically, as that is the main focus of our amendment, which broadly aligns with everyone else's views on the other issues. That is crucial if we are going to deliver meaningful progress on offering a diverse range of educational and career pathways for our young people, but I think that everybody here would agree that progress on the delivery of that has been frustratingly slow. If we are going to deliver on it, we really need joint action from Education and Economy. <BR /> <BR />Looking at some of the objectives that are set out in the framework, we would probably all agree that, as was highlighted in the independent review, we have not delivered progress on them.”
“It was proposed as a first step in a process that we need to follow. The DUP amendment expands the motion to look at the Department for the Economy's role, which is absolutely essential. <BR /> <BR />I suggest that our amendment broadens the motion most fully. The motion and amendment No 1 do not reference the 14-19 framework. There is a real need for collaborative working and to get to grips with the task of how to deliver on the aspirations of the 14-19 framework. The funding model is part, but not all, of that. I therefore hope that our amendment will get support on that basis. We do not have any great desire to divide the House, but, on balance, we will not be supporting the DUP amendment, purely on the basis that we think that ours offers the broadest possible approach to the issue. It has been a refreshing debate.”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. We could summarise what has happened in the debate by saying that there has been broad agreement in the Chamber, from the signatories to the motion — I thank them for tabling it — to the Members who spoke to the DUP amendment, as well as from the Minister. There is not a lot between everybody's contributions. We probably all want to get to the same place, where we are offering a genuinely broad range of pathways for our young people in order to give them the opportunity to succeed. We are therefore into questions of emphasis at this stage. <BR /> <BR />I understand from Sinn Féin's motion that it was keen to focus on one particular thing: how we fund provision at sixth-form age to ensure that schools are not incentivised to hang on to pupils, thus closing certain pathways for them.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. The motion and the DUP amendment speak to the need for some form of review of how we fund that. Does the Member agree that delivery of the 14-19 framework is also vital? The gateway review of it in 2024 was not favourable. You can provide as much funding as you want, but we need the overarching strategy to interlock with that.”
“I thank the Minister for her answer. She referenced the Executive programme on paramilitarism and organised crime. Will she give examples of the work that that programme is doing on the impact of trauma and adverse childhood experiences on young people?”
“I thank the Minister for his statement. The EA's chief executive stated to the Education Committee that he did not accept the characterisation that controlled schools have been failed by the EA. The teaching unions have also provided evidence to the Committee that they do not consider a managing authority for controlled schools to be required. When we visit schools in all sectors, the principals advise that they have difficulty in accessing the services that they need. On that basis, why has the Minister not gone for a single managing authority, which would benefit all schools and be a genuinely transformative intervention, and instead gone for one narrow, additional layer of bureaucracy in an already overloaded system?”
“It is not about criticising schools or parents: we are all navigating a flawed system. The case for change is clear: there is systemic inequality that should not be tolerated, and it is time for the Minister to take real action to begin the conversation on how we can deliver change.”
“As already referenced, it embeds socio-economic divisions in our schools. It also impacts on where our children attend school — taking them away from the schools that are closest to them in their communities — and skews the balance of schools that admit pupils with special educational needs. The case for change is clear. The 'A Fair Start' report was clear in its recommendations that the system is one of "systemic inequality". <BR /> <BR />I urge the Minister to engage meaningfully with the issue and not to dodge it or say that, because there is no consensus, we cannot look at it. When there is a systemic inequality in our society, a lack of consensus should not dictate whether we take action. The Minister needs to begin the conversation about how we can deliver reform.”
“That recommendation was stated clearly and unequivocally, and it was made with good reason. The influence of the transfer test pervades almost every aspect of our system. It results in grammar schools, year-on-year, applying admissions criteria that are not recommended by the Department's guidance. It skews the curriculum for Key Stage 2 pupils, who are often taught to attain in a test and not through a broad curriculum. The test is not approved, monitored or scrutinised in any way by any part of the Assembly. It is entirely privatised, yet it dictates the education journey of so many of our children.”
“<BR /> <BR />We need to consider undertaking urgent reform of the system. It is completely out of step with a modern, progressive approach to education. Reports over the years have built up a substantial body of evidence that the test is not the best way in which to manage the post-primary transfer process. Most recently, the independent review of education made clear recommendations in that space, stating:”
“I highlight the need for reform of our system of post-primary transfer in Northern Ireland. Over the weekend just past, P7 pupils all across Northern Ireland received their Schools' Entrance Assessment Group (SEAG) test result. Some will have got the outcome that they hoped for, while others will not have, so I begin my remarks by saying well done to all those who sat the test. They will have worked very hard and experienced a lot of pressure, and, regardless of their score, they should be very proud of how they navigated the process. There will be many children who chose not to take the test, and that is a big decision to make in a system that applies huge pressure on children to do so. I emphasise the point that their potential opportunities are not diminished as a result of that decision.”
“I welcome the continued commitment to bring legislation on the issue. I assure the Minister that the Education Committee is ready to do the scrutiny work. He will be aware of some of the issues that arose in England when the legislation was changed, as parents reported back that it did not have any real teeth, despite being on a statutory footing, and that schools often continued some of the unhelpful practices on cost. How will the Minister ensure that this legislation can be enforced and that it will deliver meaningfully reduced costs for parents in Northern Ireland?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. There is not a party in the Chamber that has not acknowledged and welcomed all the investment that you outlined. It is important to put that on record. The question is this: why, on this specific issue, are Ministers not engaging and delivering on it rather than airing it in a non-binding motion? Surely Ministers' time would be better spent engaging together to get it delivered.”
“Thank you for giving way. I acknowledge the frustrations with the lack of delivery on that scheme, but do you agree that childcare providers and parents do not want to see those issues being aired across the Assembly Chamber? They want to see Ministers working together to deliver.”
“<BR /> <BR />I wanted to speak on those points, and perhaps an Adjournment debate gives us an opportunity to have a debate in a different context, which takes some of the heat out of it, but that is not to take away from my colleague's debate. We are here to hear about what is going on in South Belfast, and I look forward to hearing what the Minister has to say about that.”
“I appreciate that time could beat me here, but I understand the point. The key point that follows from it is that, when you make the decision to transform into an integrated school, you are making a decision to go on a journey to try to address that segregation. There is an intentional decision that recognises that and says, "We do not want to continue in that segregated context". <BR /> <BR />We need to move beyond headcounts. It is not about counting numbers in different communities. It is about creating school environments that have intentionality when it comes to creating diverse and inclusive spaces. Again, I am not here to bash any sectors, but I believe that integrated education plays a critical role in that process.”
“The academic research that Ulster University produced says that 93% of children still attend schools that are largely segregated along religious lines. That is a pretty big number. For 69% of our schools, the research uses the phrase "strongly segregated", and 47% are almost entirely segregated. That is not to suggest that anybody is trying to engineer a system that segregates children. It is a product of our history and of our conflict, but that does not mean that we should not set our ambitions higher to do more to address that segregation.”
“I agree, up to a point, that schools in many sectors provide great examples of a really diverse offering and a welcoming school community. I do not think that anybody is suggesting that any school is closing its doors to anybody. I am not suggesting that. However, the next level of integration is the explicit intentionality. For me, that is the key point. <BR /> <BR />I will speak to some of the issues that Mr Buckley raised earlier about the diversity that exists in the school system. In many scenarios, there is still segregation in the majority of our schools. I am not saying that that is intentional. I am not suggesting that anybody is trying to segregate the system. I am saying that that is the reality. Some examples of real mixing that were highlighted in debates this week do not represent the norm.”
“We need to get behind the integrated sector and support its growth — not to the detriment of anybody else — because of that intentionality of ethos; the intentionality of bringing people together from different community backgrounds, different faith perspectives and different socio-economic backgrounds; and the intentional attempt to bring those children together in the classroom.”
“People will have different views on that. The Integrated Education Act provides a clear definition of that. For me, the critical bit is the intentionality. Across my constituency, there are schools that are open, welcoming and diverse spaces. I am not here to criticise any sector in the education system. Every single principal whom I meet, every school that I visit and the teachers in them work at absolute capacity to deliver the very best education in the most nurturing environment that they can for the children in their care.”
“There may well be differences of opinion about what an integrated school is, particularly about that notion of "reasonable numbers", but, this evening, we are talking about whether the provision that is available in South Belfast meets the demand. The Integrated Education Act is clear about that. I am looking forward to a response from the Minister that is mindful of the context of those duties. Hopefully, we can move away from some of the party political stuff and get on to the pragmatic discussion of how those legal and statutory duties can be met. <BR /> <BR />I want to pick up on a couple of other issues that were mentioned in the debate. I will put it out there: I am looking forward to hearing what comes from the Minister on growing the provision in South Belfast. David Brooks asked what it is that makes a school integrated.”
“It is really important that, whatever we think of the decisions that have been taken over the past week, in the context of the debate, we remind ourselves of the three really important duties that the Minister has in that space, which have been mentioned already. They are:”
“We know that two sites have been identified. Wherever the college ends up, I know that it will certainly serve many of my constituents as well. I want to put on record my appreciation for the unbelievable levels of work, vision and ambition of those parents to get that school established. That is no small feat. They deserve immense credit. I look forward to that developing. Recently, I visited Blackwater Integrated College on a couple of occasions. That school is bursting at the seams. It certainly cannot wait much longer for the school project to be developed. <BR /> <BR />Much has been said about integrated education in the past week. I hope that the debate can be a positive reset and that we can get the discussion on to a more positive footing.”
“I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in the debate, and I thank my party colleague for securing an Adjournment debate on the topic. <BR /> <BR />My colleagues and others have spoken in detail about the South Belfast-specific issues. I do not pretend that I will be able to add much to that. However, at the outset, I want to put on record my support for growing integrated education in South Belfast. I hope that we will get a positive update from the Minister in that regard. As it turns out, a few issues in the debate have crossed over into my constituency. I am very pleased about that. Yes, we house Lagan College in Strangford. Maybe not everyone is aware of that, so I will get that on to the record. There has also been progress on mid Down integrated college. I am very hopeful of hearing a positive update on that from the Minister.”
“<BR /> <BR />We do not need to focus our energy on a new task force. We need to sort out the reform of the curriculum and the RSE delivery that we all know are so desperately needed.”
“Delivering the right curriculum is for the Minister. <BR /> <BR />On that basis, I hope that our amendment receives support. It lets the Committee process run its course and deliver a full suite of recommendations on RSE in due course. It further asks that the Minister sets out updates on his work on the Gillen review and the strategic framework. We have heard a little bit today about that, but I would have liked to hear a bit more detail on it. <BR /> <BR />I will turn very briefly to the DUP amendment. Regrettably, it fails to acknowledge something really crucial, which is the fact that RSE is failing our young people. That amendment does not acknowledge that RSE is not fit for purpose, so, in light of that starting point, we cannot support it. We need to see change in that space.”
“The motion's stated purpose, however, was about enhancing RSE, and it is very clear that the responsibility for that lies with the Education Minister. We definitely do not need another task force to do that; we simply need an Education Minister who will listen to young people and ensure that we have an RSE curriculum that is fit for purpose and meets the needs of young people rather than the inconsistent and patchy provision that we see across Northern Ireland. It is very clear from the Minister's contribution that dealing with violence against women and girls is a whole-Executive challenge. It is a whole-society challenge. I do not argue with that at all, but RSE is critical to that, and it lies with his Department. It is important that that is not pushed aside by saying, "Well, look, it is for everybody".”
“The Education Committee is very close to concluding its inquiry. Some Members have suggested that the inquiry has run for longer than they would like, but we have heard evidence from those who are involved in the healthy young adult relationships project and from a whole range of expert witnesses. While many of the recommendations in the report that was referenced are very welcome, it would be good to deal with the issue in the round and bring some recommendations to the Assembly and to the Minister that take into account all the evidence that was heard by the Committee. <BR /> <BR />I also want to make it very clear, as my colleague Kate Nicholl did, that the Justice Minister is very keen to work with all Departments in the space of promoting healthy relationships and tackling violence against women and girls.”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I am very conscious that my time is short, so I will keep my remarks as brief as possible. I probably will not have the opportunity to refer to individual Members' points. <BR /> <BR />I will refer to the Minister's points briefly before I go any further. I welcome the Minister's confirmation that he considers RSE to be a crucial part of the curriculum in Northern Ireland. That is certainly a very different tone from the previous time that we debated RSE, when, I think, he referred to sex education as "the Alliance Party's pet project". It is good to see that the Minister has moved on from that, and the debate in the Chamber has reflected that RSE is certainly much more than that. <BR /> <BR />I will emphasise a couple of things. First, while the motion is welcome, its timing is odd.”
“The integrated education section 10 report from the Minister's Department confirms that Ards and north Down is an area in which there is substantial unmet demand for integrated education at post-primary level. Bearing that in mind, how does the decision not to approve this development proposal align with the statutory duty to monitor and meet demand for integrated education?”
“I thank the Minister for his statement. I must admit that, when I saw that the statement was coming, I thought that we were going to get the plan today. I thought that we were going to hear that, just as when the departmental officials came to the Committee and we thought that we were going to get the plan, but it did not land. Effectively, parents need to know when this is going to change and what is going to change. Schools need to know what is going to change and when it is going to change. Minister, when will the plan be submitted to Members so that we can scrutinise what you are going to do, how it is costed and how you are going to measure success?”
“Given the range of concerns that they have raised and the constructive proposals that they would like to bring to your officials, would you be able to facilitate a meeting between your officials and that group of concerned residents?”
“I thank the Minister for his response and for the update on the wider investment in greenways. I welcome the investment in greenways in the Ards and North Down Borough Council area. <BR /> <BR />The Minister may be aware that the residents who live directly on the site where the footbridge is due to be constructed have expressed serious concerns about that aspect of the project. They have also raised wider concerns around road safety in the laneway that they reside on, speed limits and proposed alternative crossing options for access to the greenway but have been disappointed by the lack of engagement with DFI officials on their request to meet.”
“If the Minister would like to visit a banking hub, one is shortly due to open in Comber in my constituency, where she would be made very welcome. Can the Minister provide any more detail on the sorts of policy interventions at Executive level that would be useful for supporting the retention of high street banking services, particularly in rural areas?”
“I welcome the announcement and thank the Minister for his statement today. Any investment in our education system is, of course, welcome. <BR /> <BR />I want to pin down some of the figures in a bit more detail. The beginning of the statement references £10 million and refers to outdoor play, computers and defibrillators. We then have a reference to £4 million for outdoor play and, later, £5 million for computers. Can the Minister outline the specific total amount of investment that is being announced today, break that down into the curriculum areas in which he will invest it and confirm to the Assembly the period over which the investment will be made?”
“Last week, I had the opportunity to visit Larne High School with my colleague Danny Donnelly, who represents East Antrim. I was shocked by the condition of the buildings in which the children are educated. It has undoubtedly reached a state where it impacts on their ability to access the curriculum in a number of subjects. Will the Minister commit to visiting Larne High School not only to see the condition of the buildings but to meet the principal and the board of governors to discuss their hugely impressive and progressive approach to SEN and post-16 provision?”
“The Minister said that the situation for those young people was an "injustice". Given the seriousness of that, what reassurance can he give parents of young people with special educational needs that, by the end of the mandate, whether through legislation or by having better systems in place, there will be tangible and identifiable change?”
“I thank the Minister for the assurance that he is committed to developing libraries across Northern Ireland. On that basis, will the Minister provide an update on the redevelopment of the library in Newtownards and specifically on any engagement with Ards and North Down Borough Council, which remains a key partner, to ensure that the project can be delivered?”
“Bearing in mind the difficult context that you set out, Minister, will you provide more detail of the work that is being undertaken in conjunction with the Finance Minister to secure the earmarked funding for agriculture, agrienvironment, fisheries and rural development?”
“Is there an acceptance in the Executive Office that sectarianism and racism are two sides of the same coin and that, on that basis, there is a need for a fundamental review of good relations policy?”
“I also welcome the Minister's statement. We speak a lot about scarcity of resource in this place, but the question of what price we put on a human life is relevant in this context. How will the Minister ensure that, in every school, we have the right number of people with the knowledge required to use the defibrillator safely and effectively, should it be needed?”
“Marie Curie's youth advisory panel is clear that those are vital interventions and that it is essential that, with the focus on grief education and the launch of Marie Curie's report, the Department now take forward the necessary work to deliver on the recommendations and to ensure that children and young people in our schools get the support that they need to prepare them for the impact of bereavement in their lives and to support them when they are dealing with grief and loss. I am that sure we all agree that we owe our children that.”
“Those policies should be embedded in schools and should generate whole-school approaches to bereavement support. All staff in the school should be familiar with the policy and should be fully equipped to deliver it effectively. Secondly, grief education should be embedded in the curriculum. Children in Northern Ireland should have a range of opportunities through their education to discuss grief and bereavement so that taboos around the subject can be broken down.”
“This week, it will launch its report on creating compassionate school communities that have policies in place to appropriately support bereaved children. The report will have a number of recommendations and is the culmination of a long period of research and engagement with stakeholders from across a range of sectors, most notably including engagement with young people who have been directly impacted by bereavement. It is essential that we engage with those children and young people if we want to deliver effective support. <BR /> <BR />I fully support the recommendations that will be announced, but I want to highlight two in particular. First, every school should have a bereavement policy in place to ensure that every child can get the support that they need in school when they are impacted by bereavement.”
“Therefore, it is welcome that the policy focus of this year's Children's Grief Awareness Week is grief education, with a clear emphasis on the need for grief education to be an essential part of the curriculum from the earliest stage possible. <BR /> <BR />Research shows that good grief education can act as a strong protective factor when children later experience bereavement, which has such a huge and devastating impact on their well-being. That impact affects children in specific ways. It can leave them unsure of their previously assumed safety and security in the world and often without the language to speak about it. In that context, I particularly recognise the work of Marie Curie in this policy area in Northern Ireland.”
“Today marks the start of Children's Grief Awareness Week 2024. It is an appropriate moment to reflect on the significant impact that bereavement can have on the life of children and young people. Data collection is not what it should be in this area, but it is estimated that, in the UK, by the age of 16, one in 29 children will experience the death of a parent or sibling. Those are sobering statistics. That is a child in every class, as they move through their educational journey. The impact of bereavement at that age is devastating. It is vital that the right support is available for our children, and nowhere is that more important than in our schools.”
“I thank the Minister for giving way. He mentioned targeting social need funding. Does he agree that, given the very difficult financial position that schools find themselves in, that funding often lands in a deficit and does not reach the children who need it?”
“We cannot accept a situation where any child's potential is hindered by poverty or financial hardship. I urge Members to accept our amendment on that basis.”