Nick Mathison
Strangford · Alliance Party · Northern Ireland
“That second part is important. In the scrutiny of the Minister's Bill on school uniforms, we got a little tied up over how we could build in provisions on PE, but, when we got to work on this Bill, we found that there is a simple formulation that will ensure that participation in sport and PE, which, we should remember, is a statutory par…”
“<BR /> <BR />On the basis of that feedback and the other evidence that we received, two draft approaches to developing the Bill were considered. The first was to create a separate, stand-alone Bill with a stand-alone right for pupils to be afforded the choice to wear trousers and to set that out in law.”
“Many schools do that really well, but others, regrettably, do not. To me, only legislation will guarantee the behaviour change that we need. It is not good enough for a Minister to say to young people, "But I give you permission to go and campaign. You run the campaign. Look at Rhea and Astrid: didn't they do so well?".”
“I will name a few: the school uniform must be affordable, so schools have no autonomy on that; and schools must consult with parents when they are changing their policy, so they have no autonomy on that. I could go through every one of the guidelines.”
“depending on the activity. That was to ensure that the need for appropriate clothing for sporting activities was reflected. <BR /> <BR />Ultimately, it is a permissive Bill. It is simply focused on creating a universal right to have the choice to wear trousers and enshrining that in the guidance.”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I will not speak for long, and I do not plan to rehearse everything that has been said. However, I begin by doing something that I overlooked when I spoke at the beginning: thanking the Deputy Chair of the Committee who first proposed the Bill.”
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“<BR /> <BR />Inspection is undoubtedly a key component of the accountability architecture in our education system. It identifies strengths, highlights concerns and supports continuous improvement in the best interests of learners. It is therefore appropriate that we keep our inspection arrangements and the legislation underpinning them under regular review. <BR /> <BR />The general principles of the Bill are clear.”
“As Chair of the Education Committee, I welcome the opportunity to contribute to today's debate. Should the Education Inspections Bill pass at Second Stage, the Committee looks forward to scrutinising it in detail and to engaging with stakeholders and officials. <BR /> <BR />The Bill received a lot of attention on social media over the weekend, and elected reps in the Chamber will have received a lot of contact about clause 3 in particular. I am speaking now in my capacity as Chair of the Committee, so I will limit my remarks to the scope of the Bill and the Committee's engagement on the issues to date. I will deal with some of the other issues in the Bill when, with your permission, Mr Deputy Speaker, I speak as an Alliance Party Member.”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. Can the Minister outline how often his Department's funding policy interdepartmental working group meets the Northern Ireland Office and whether it has facilitated engagement with the community and voluntary sector and the Northern Ireland Office through that forum?”
“I will not be able to weigh in on the nuances of the report on the demand for integrated education and how it should be interpreted, but, on the broader question of the legislative responsibility to aim to meet the demand for integrated education, when will the Minister set out his road map and his plan to deal with the areas of unmet demand that, as he accepts, exist in some areas?”
“Either the Department is serious about dealing with this and the Minister will step up and deliver, or it is not. It is time for the political spin to be taken out of the issue and for the statutory duties to be exercised fully and properly.”
“It is not all doom and gloom. The launch of the integrated education support fund, which quickly followed the report that I have referenced, is welcome. Alliance has argued for years that schools, often in rural areas, that have different management types should proactively seek to come together to secure sustainable provision in their communities and, where possible, offer that integrated model at the same time. It is welcome that the Department is now proactively offering support for schools to undertake that work and deliver those solutions, and I encourage schools across Northern Ireland to engage with the process. I hope to see creative solutions to bring schools forward in the not-too-distant future. <BR />It is vital that the Department does not continue with mixed messages.”
“The Minister needs to take the politics out of this. We have seen it before in recent decisions: you cannot, on one hand, acknowledge demand in an area, such as the area that a large part of my Strangford constituency falls into — Ards and North Down — and then, when two schools in that area bring forward proposals to transform, refuse them. That seems to me to be an exercise in gaslighting the public.”
“The life and times survey sets out that 55% of those surveyed would prefer to send their child to an integrated school or, if you prefer, 31% of parents who have recently been through the admissions process would have preferred to send their child to an integrated school. In a context where only 8·4% of the available school places are integrated, there is clearly a huge unmet demand for integrated education. When the law requires the Minister not just to measure that demand but to aim to meet it, it is clearly time for action, not spin. <BR /> <BR />A report that sets out demand with the numbers that I have just referenced and then attempts to explain it away as patchy, variable or reflective of a couple of oversubscribed schools and so on is not taking the duty to aim to meet demand seriously.”
“Last week, we saw the Department of Education launch a key report on the level of demand for integrated education and a new integrated education support programme. Those two announcements coming within 24 hours of each other represent a classic case of mixed messaging. <BR /> <BR />The report on demand for integrated education, which was required in legislation, was, regrettably, full of political spin and seemed at pains to downplay demand for integrated education at every opportunity. The message in the report, however, was clear: regardless of which measure you prefer to use, there remains significant unmet demand for integrated education in NI.”
“I thank the Minister for that update. Will the Minister provide further detail on whether he expects to see a closed season for periwinkle harvesting in place in Strangford lough before the end of the mandate?”
“I thank the Minister for the update. Minister, you will be aware of significant public discussion about the use of good-character references. Will you confirm whether the Bill could deliver legislative change on that issue?”
“The standard 30-day term, set out in Standing Order 33(2), is not clear, and it would be unusual to run a Committee Stage as quickly as that. The Committee feels that, given the Bill's narrow scope, we will be able to move through it reasonably rapidly, but we have built in that extension over the summer period in case anything unexpected should come through in the evidence heard. The Committee has a little slack built in to hear additional evidence, should it be required. <BR /> <BR />I am content that, on balance, the Committee Stage extension date of 30 August 2026 is reasonable, proportionate and constitutes adequate time for consideration of all relevant factors in the Bill's proposals.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Committee appreciates that the Bill may have a fairly narrow interest, limited to those involved in Irish-medium education both at the policy level and in delivery at school level. However, we still intend to carry out effective and appropriate to scrutiny via the core components of a Committee Stage. I will not rehearse those as we went through them in the debate on the previous motion, but they are the same as for that Bill. <BR /> <BR />The Committee has designed its timeline to permit adequate time to complete each of those steps. As with any other Bill that comes before it, the Committee will aim to complete its task before the extension date, if possible and if comprehensive scrutiny has been given in the time taken.”
“The Bill sponsor has been clear that that is intentional. Its aim is strategic, and it has been the Committee's conclusion that it is likely that stakeholder input will be limited largely to those in the Irish-medium education field. We do not anticipate wide interest beyond that, although we are ensuring that all Education Committee stakeholders are given the opportunity to contribute should they wish. Given those factors, and the particular content of the Bill, the Committee agreed a motion to extend the Committee Stage for the Bill until 30 August 2026. The Committee has already launched a Citizen Space survey on the provisions of the Bill, and has invited written submissions on the proposals.”
“The issues for this motion are going to be very similar to those of the previous motion, so, hopefully, will not take up too much of Members' time. <BR /> <BR />The Committee has decided its timeline for the Committee Stage of the Irish-medium Education (Workforce Plan) Bill, giving due care and attention to the competing priorities and crucial components of good scrutiny. As was referenced in the previous motion, we have an unusual scenario of two Bill sponsors sitting on the Committee hearing the evidence, so the Committee is obviously being urged from those quarters to move the Bills through as quickly as possible. However, the Committee has had to balance that with what will deliver appropriate and thorough scrutiny. <BR /> <BR />The Bill is short, succinctly drafted and its scope is narrowly defined.”
“The Committee believes that the timescale set out in the motion strikes the right balance between covering those stages in the detail required and allowing the work on the Bill to be completed in time to give it an opportunity to proceed during this mandate. <BR /> <BR />The Committee appreciates the Bill sponsor's strong desire to see it pass through Committee Stage with as little delay as possible. We wanted to engage this short extension to ensure that due process was followed and good scrutiny ensued. On balance, I am content that the Committee Stage extension to 18 September 2026 is reasonable, proportionate and constitutes adequate time for consideration of all relevant factors in the Bill's legislative proposals.”
“In addition, the Department has highlighted technical feedback around the drafting of the Bill that it wants to provide in the coming weeks. We hope to have that evidence from the Department soon. <BR /> <BR />The Committee is clear that it intends to carry out effective and appropriate scrutiny at Committee Stage and is doing that through the normal components: a call for evidence; oral evidence sessions; Committee deliberation on evidence received; further engagement as required with departmental officials and the Bill sponsor and their team; development and consideration of potential Committee amendments; informal and formal clause-by-clause scrutiny and approval of the Bill; and consideration and approval of the final report to the Assembly.”
“Undoubtedly, that will be a challenge that the Committee will have to navigate. However, issues already being highlighted for discussion include: the scope for interdepartmental or sharing of the financing of the provisions of the Bill; the recurrent funding impacts of the Bill; and other provisions that could operate to deliver similar policy outcomes, such as breakfast clubs or social supermarkets in local communities. All those issues have been flagged, as well as potential challenges around the logistics of payment methods and access to bank accounts. Client groups such as asylum seekers have been mentioned as an area that may need attention. <BR /> <BR />The Committee appreciates that the Bill is likely to be of wide interest to educational stakeholders and community and voluntary organisations.”
“On that basis, the Committee has agreed to run a parallel process for its survey and the taking of its oral evidence in order to try to compact the process as much as possible. The Committee decided on its timeline for the Bill's Committee Stage, with due care and attention being paid to the competing priorities of the Committee's work and the crucial components of good scrutiny. Having considered all those relevant factors, the Committee agreed to seek to extend the Bill's Committee Stage until 18 September 2026. <BR /> <BR />The Bill's unique subject matter has given rise to a lot of discussion at Committee Stage on the principles of the Bill, and, rather than rehearse Second Stage, we will be keen to draw our focus on to the clauses and what the effect of each will be.”
“The sponsor has been very clear in his contributions to the Committee that he wants to ensure that, if it can be avoided, no holiday period is missed out under the Bill. He has therefore been very clear that he wants to work with the Committee and stakeholders to bring deliberations through to readiness for the amending stages in the House as soon as possible. <BR /> <BR />The Committee has engaged with its regular stakeholder lists but also with some specialist stakeholders that focus on the area of anti-poverty interventions. As usual, the Committee has commissioned research and legal support for the process. As with any Bill making its way through the House in the final year of a mandate, we are mindful of the pressures on Assembly time.”
“Danny Baker MLA is sponsoring the Education (Holiday Meal Payments) Bill, which is a short, four-clause Bill. Its intent is to complement the term-time free school meals provision by extending it by way of a financial payment to eligible children and young people during holiday periods. To date, the Committee has taken introductory briefings from the Bill sponsor and has received correspondence from departmental officials. It has received procedural advice from Committee Clerks and Bill Clerks and has plotted what it considers to be a reasonable time frame to allow for good Committee Stage scrutiny of the Bill. <BR /> <BR />As is the case with any private Member's Bill, the sponsor is keen to progress it as quickly as possible. Particularly for that Bill, however, the issue of commencement has been important to the discussions.”
“The Committee for Education finds itself in the slightly unusual position of currently carrying out Committee Stage for two private Members' Bills that are sponsored by its own members. That may be a first, but I am happy to be corrected. I commend my Committee colleagues for the work that they have done so far to progress the Bills to their current stage in the legislative process.”
“<BR /> <BR />I hope that the Minister will listen to the calls. The petition is very simple; we are not asking for street lights along the whole length of the A24. I completely accept that it is a rural road and full lighting would not be appropriate, but if we expect our children to use those bus stops every day, they should be lit and safe so that the children can access school transport without being concerned about drivers coming down the road at 40 mph, or in excess of that, as they try to access public transport. I trust that the Minister has some discretion that she can exercise. The residents of Drumaness will be watching very closely to see how she responds to the request for street lighting to be installed at a key location in their community.”
“<BR /> <BR />There are only a few hundred houses in Drumaness, but we have 321 signatures from residents who support the installation of street lighting at the bus stops on that road. It is a simple matter of basic road safety. I am sure that all Members have received correspondence from the Infrastructure Minister when requests like this are submitted, and policy is often quoted about frontage development not being present on both sides of the road. The residents of Drumaness are very clear that the lack of frontage development has no bearing on the safety of their children and young people who cross that road in the winter months to access school transport. There is no objective way to defend asking children to cross a road in complete darkness just so that they can get to school.”
“I am grateful for the opportunity to present the petition to the Assembly today. Members may not be familiar with the village of Drumaness; it is a very small rural community that is just past Ballynahinch in my constituency. I carried out a constituency surgery in Drumaness just before Christmas and received feedback that there was real concern in the community about the safety of the bus stops as you leave the village and head towards the A24 to Newcastle and Ballynahinch, particularly because schoolchildren have to cross a 40 mph road in the winter months, with no street lighting to access their school buses. It is simply not safe. When I spoke to residents — I knocked on lots of doors to highlight the petition calling for street lighting to be installed — the support in the village was unanimous.”
“A much wider debate is needed. We are coming to that critical point: when the rubber hits the road, what will it really look like when we want to deliver SEN reform? I am clear: we will not deliver meaningful SEN reform and will not meet the needs of children unless we support SENCOs to do their jobs. They are critical to the whole system, and we need to support them.”
“I would like to pursue that through Committee and other channels, because SENCOs were really clear when we engaged with and consulted them on the text of the motion and what their challenges were. They were clear on the sense that there needed to be a real system overview of all the different factors that were coming to bear and impacting on their workload, how they can be mitigated and how SENCOs can be better supported. I would like to have heard a commitment on that front, and we will continue to look for that. <BR /> <BR />I think and hope that SENCOs will take heart from the debate today. I do not suggest in any way that a non-binding motion will solve anybody's problems overnight, but at least we have agreement. That gives us a platform to push for accountability to ensure that there is delivery on addressing the SENCO workload.”
“A lot of people would be very nervous about coming to a public forum like the Education Committee to effectively raise concerns about the working conditions that they are operating in and put that on the public record with their employer — the EA and the Department — watching. They deserve huge credit. Their engagement with the Committee has led to a positive engagement with the Department on the issues, so they really deserve credit. <BR /> <BR />As time is short, I turn to the asks in the motion. While it is nice to have the warm feeling in the room when everybody agrees — when we debate our non-binding motions, everybody can do that — I am a little concerned at the Minister's comments. There was no specific commitment to a review of SENCO workload, and I would like to have heard that.”
“I thank the Member for the intervention. We get into dangerous territory when we have Ministers saying to other Ministers, "You need to surrender your budget so that I can do this thing". We could go round in a vicious circle with that all day long, and every Minister would make the case. It is for the Education Minister to make his case to the Finance Minister for the investment that he needs, and I hope that the Finance Minister would be sympathetic to that. <BR /> <BR />I am conscious that I am short on time, so I want to put this point on record. Claire McGowan and Anita Stewart, who gave evidence to the Education Committee, have been referenced. They did that very bravely.”
“Give me one moment, and I will give way. <BR /> <BR />Anyone who engages with groups of SENCOs will know that the disparity in the approaches taken in schools is striking, and, in schools where the needs are clearly at a higher level and more complex, some of those SENCOs get less release time. A lot of that is to do with the budgetary position of the school, and schools should not be placed in that position.”
“I thank the Member for the intervention. Yes, it is absolutely essential that the finances are put in place to ensure that the appropriate level of release is delivered. It is really important that we get assurances around that.”
“I thank the cluster groups that I have engaged with, specifically those in Newtownards, north Down and Castlereagh, as well as the individual SENCOs who have contacted me to share their experiences. That engagement has been absolutely invaluable, as has their honesty and willingness to engage. Sometimes, those engagements have felt like therapy sessions. It is a workforce that really feels on the brink, and I do not say that flippantly. SENCOs often refer to those engagements in those terms, and I know that my colleague Michelle and other members of the Education Committee who have engaged with their local SENCO workforce feel that those engagements have been absolutely critical in understanding the ongoing pressure in our schools.”
“That is what I would like to see, because I do not think that a single person in the Assembly thinks that the system is currently fit for purpose. I do not think that a single person is articulating that we should change nothing. There may be different levels of emphasis on how we do that, but the need for change is vital, because our children who rely on SEN support services are being failed. We need to address that. I genuinely take hope from the debate, because there is a sense that all of us, whatever the different levels of emphasis might be, want to move in that direction. <BR /> <BR />Returning to the substantive content of the motion. I will record a couple of thank-yous to the SENCOs whom I have engaged with.”
“The motion was narrow, but that is not to say that Alliance is not up for the debate on wider SEN reform: we absolutely are. I need to declare an interest, as my wife works for an organisation that was a co-signatory to the Children's Law Centre letter. There is a need for the system to engage with the concerns that have been raised, but we have a space where we can open up a constructive conversation. The consultation on the enhanced support model is still open, and, when it closes, that will be the appropriate time for the system to pause, take a breath, get the right stakeholders around the table, reflect on what comes through in the consultation, deal with concerns around legality, deal with the pace of change and ensure that we get all the key stakeholders pulling in the same direction.”
“The outworking of that is the concern that we have a workforce that is crucial to the system but feels that it is on the brink of being completely overwhelmed and not being able to cope. We hear schools say that when a SENCO vacancy comes up, nobody applies for it. It takes a serious level of arm-twisting to get people to take the role. SENCOs talk about being afraid to go off sick, because they worry about the impact that doing so would have on their school setting. We have SENCOs — I will not use names because they might get in trouble with their unions — who have said to me that they have a laugh when the phrase "action short of strike" is used, because, if there is one person in a school who cannot take action short of strike, it is a SENCO. The whole thing would fall apart around them if they did. That is an unsustainable picture.”
“You only need to spend a few minutes in the company of a group of SENCOs to hear the level of their dedication and insight into the complexity of needs in their school settings; their level of understanding of the challenges that parents face when navigating the system; their appetite; and their ability to engage with reform. However, you will also hear their realism about the level of challenge brought about by the current level of resources. <BR /> <BR />SENCOs are critical to any delivery of SEN services and reform, so our motion was deliberately narrow. We wanted to acknowledge the evidence that we heard at the Education Committee and the evidence that colleagues and I have heard from our local SENCO clusters, which have articulated so clearly the level of challenge they are facing and the level of pressure that they are under.”
“We had a range of issues raised in the debate. Peter Martin raised his concerns about maintaining the status quo with regard to how we deliver SEN services; Jon Burrows looked at the rising level of complexity in and demand for SEN services; and other Members highlighted the crucial role of classroom assistants. I could keep going on the different issues raised and levels of emphasis in the debate. I want to be clear: it is not that those issues are not important. We brought the motion because, to quote Peter Martin, if he does not mind, SENCOs are, in many cases, "the glue" that holds the SEN services together in our schools. A SENCO is, as others have said, the "go-to person" in the school. They are also the go-to person for external agencies.”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I thank all Members who have contributed to the debate. There has been a really constructive tone in the Chamber. We have landed in a rare space where there seems to be agreement, at least on the substantive issues in the motion. The conversation expanded into the wider issues around SEN reform, where there might not be complete alignment, but, even on those issues, as far as I could tell, there was a sense that everyone in the Chamber acknowledges that there is a need to come together. If there are concerns about the legalities of reform or the pace of change, it seems that there is an openness to engage. I certainly welcome that. <BR /> <BR />Our motion was deliberately narrow. It is not that all of the other issues that Members wanted to raise are not important.”
“I thank the Minister for his statement. He referenced an update provided by the CEO of Middletown Centre for Autism. Can the Minister provide a further update on the SEN reform agenda? As part of that, there was an action on reviewing the work and functions of Middletown Centre for Autism, with a view, according to evidence that the Committee heard, for that role to be enhanced. Can you provide an update on where that sits?”
“I thank the Minister for his statement. I have to admit that, when I printed it off in my office, I thought that it was going to be a longer document; it feels very light, given how chronic the issue of teacher workload has been over many years and how intractable finding a resolution has proved to be. Is there enough here to say to the teaching profession that there is going to be a real change? I have heard about subgroups, protocols, guidance and TNC engagement, but what are the concrete actions? We know that an action plan is coming, but teachers will be looking at this and wondering what will change for them in the classroom.”
“A recommendation of the curriculum review was that a 0-6 early years framework be developed. Will the Minister provide an update on when that work will be taken forward?”
“I encourage all Ministers, councils and arm's-length bodies in Northern Ireland to look at any opportunities to maximise investment in Linking Generations and intergenerational work more broadly in Northern Ireland. It is a key aspect of a healthy society, and it is vital that it is allowed to continue.”
“There is a great track record of embedding intergenerational work in our schools in Northern Ireland, with the age-friendly agenda and action plans in our councils and the fact that intergenerational approaches are referenced in the Programme for Government. <BR /> <BR />Unfortunately, however, there are threats to that work. Following the winding-up of its former host charity in England, Linking Generations has found itself in a very difficult and challenging financial position. It is now a stand-alone charity in Northern Ireland, and, aside from a small pot of Public Health Agency funding to help to retain some daily operations, it is without sustainable funding. That means that it will be unable to deliver work at the scale that we have seen before and that retaining staff to drive that work will be impossible.”
“The week runs from 24 to 30 April, and it celebrates and promotes all the excellent intergenerational activity in Northern Ireland. That international week is an opportunity to set out a vision of the sort of society that we want to see in Northern Ireland for our children to grow up and grow old in. <BR /> <BR />I am particularly pleased that Twinkl NI is promoting a range of intergenerational resources for use in our schools and that Public Health Agency funding continues to support a number of schools across Northern Ireland in delivering intergenerational activities in their local communities.”
“We are currently in the middle of Global Intergenerational Week. I take the opportunity to pay tribute to the work of Linking Generations Northern Ireland, the only organisation that leads on intergenerational work in Northern Ireland, having done so since 2009. Any Member who has engaged with Vicki Titterington, who heads up that organisation, will be familiar with her passion and drive to support intergenerational work in Northern Ireland and her commitment to embedding intergenerational approaches across our society and at every level of government here. <BR /> <BR />Linking Generations coordinates a network of over 1,700 members and, crucially, is the Northern Ireland lead for work associated with Global Intergenerational Week.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I suspected that he was drawing his remarks to a close. On the theme of the statutory duty and the fact that mechanisms are in place to hold the Minister and the Department to account, does he agree that that statutory duty, as far as I understand it, came into effect in 1998? That was 28 years ago, and, as far as I am aware, we still have not had a workforce plan for Irish-medium education, and certainly not one that is regularly reviewed and, in a proactive and agile way, responds to the needs of the sector. That suggests that perhaps the statutory duty has not provided the impetus that it should have done to deliver on the issue.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. There is no argument from me at all: we have heard in Committee repeatedly about some of the challenges in recruiting teachers, particularly at post-primary specialist subject level. Does the Member agree that, if that specialist subject teacher is also required to be fluent in Irish, the challenge will be maximised for that sector and it is appropriate that, given the statutory duty, the Department should step in to address that?”
“There is already a duty to encourage and facilitate Irish-medium education, and the Bill does not change or depart from that; it simply puts on a statutory footing what seems to me to be a natural outworking of that statutory duty. If developing Irish-medium education requires an enhanced workforce, the Department should take the steps to deliver that. On that basis, I see no reason why it should cause undue concern for the Department, the Minister or other parties. I am therefore content to confirm my support for the Bill's passage at Second Stage today, and I commend the Bill sponsor for moving it.”
“<BR /> <BR />I will not add a huge amount other than to welcome the Bill. I look forward to seeing what transpires at the scrutiny stage. It is a short, straightforward Bill. Things may be done to enhance or amend it at Committee Stage, and we will wait to see about that. From my perspective, the impact of the Bill, if it is enacted, will ultimately depend on the quality, comprehensiveness and effective implementation of the plan that arises from it. We do not have the scope to go into the detail of exactly what that will need to look like — we would be getting ahead of ourselves to do so — but there is undoubtedly a resource implication. Resource will be required to implement a plan effectively, but I return to my comments in relation to the statutory duty.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Minister asked why such a duty should be placed with regard to the Irish-medium sector and not others. That is similar to some of the discussions that have been held on the integrated education side of things. There is an equity issue. If one sector is particularly impacted on by specific workforce challenges, as, I think, the Irish-medium sector is — it is different from any other sector in our system, because it requires a level of specialism and expertise to allow an immersive education experience to be delivered — it is the right and appropriate thing to do, when the statutory duty is there, to ensure that the workforce is there to meet the demand. We could get into comparing apples with pears if we said that a rule for one sector should be the same for everybody.”