Nick Mathison
Strangford · Alliance Party · Northern Ireland
“That second part is important. In the scrutiny of the Minister's Bill on school uniforms, we got a little tied up over how we could build in provisions on PE, but, when we got to work on this Bill, we found that there is a simple formulation that will ensure that participation in sport and PE, which, we should remember, is a statutory par…”
“<BR /> <BR />On the basis of that feedback and the other evidence that we received, two draft approaches to developing the Bill were considered. The first was to create a separate, stand-alone Bill with a stand-alone right for pupils to be afforded the choice to wear trousers and to set that out in law.”
“Many schools do that really well, but others, regrettably, do not. To me, only legislation will guarantee the behaviour change that we need. It is not good enough for a Minister to say to young people, "But I give you permission to go and campaign. You run the campaign. Look at Rhea and Astrid: didn't they do so well?".”
“I will name a few: the school uniform must be affordable, so schools have no autonomy on that; and schools must consult with parents when they are changing their policy, so they have no autonomy on that. I could go through every one of the guidelines.”
“depending on the activity. That was to ensure that the need for appropriate clothing for sporting activities was reflected. <BR /> <BR />Ultimately, it is a permissive Bill. It is simply focused on creating a universal right to have the choice to wear trousers and enshrining that in the guidance.”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I will not speak for long, and I do not plan to rehearse everything that has been said. However, I begin by doing something that I overlooked when I spoke at the beginning: thanking the Deputy Chair of the Committee who first proposed the Bill.”
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“<BR /> <BR />Whilst the amount of non-ring-fenced resource DEL awarded to Education has increased by £297 million from the starting point last year, the Committee understands that at least £166 million of that will be absorbed by the implementation of teaching pay awards, and, combined with the exponential rise in the cost of SEN provision, it means that, in reality, the Department is likely to once again face substantial pressures in the year ahead. Capital DEL has also seen an increase. However, given the rising cost of construction, the long backlog of maintenance needs across our school estate and the very competitive list of capital projects vying for resource, it is unlikely that that increase will meet the needs of all stakeholders in the sector.”
“In the first instance, I will speak to the 2024-25 Budget debate as the Chairperson of the Education Committee. <BR /> <BR />The Committee has, unfortunately, had less engagement around the 2024-25 Budget process than it would have liked, making effective scrutiny difficult. The Department had outlined substantial pressures before this Budget was allocated, and those were set out as being in the region of £900 million for 2024-25. However, we have been given very limited detail on the full background to those pressures, and a full Budget briefing has been offered to the Committee only for a date after today's debate. That is unsatisfactory, and Committee members have expressed concern about the Department's lack of engagement on these issues.”
“I thank the Minister for providing that confirmation. Further to that, does she agree that homelessness is not a criminal offence and that policy interventions, rather than criminal sanctions, are required to address it?”
“Can the Minister advise how those significant pressures can be managed and what the impact of that is likely to be?”
“<BR /> <BR />I want to back the Department and the EA in that work, but we need to see clear actions and see how that will be delivered. We need to see the Department and the EA working meaningfully in partnership with health colleagues. We need to see them planning effectively so that we can, as the Department has rightly called for in recent weeks, get the right support from the right people in the right place at the right time. I think that we are all behind that agenda, and I hope that we can see it rolled out in the weeks and months ahead.”
“I am aware of the substantial amount of work going on between the EA and schools to establish specialist provisions and the places that are required. I wish them well with that work, and a lot of schools are stepping up to come into that space and try to meet the need. However, families in areas of SEN pressure like South Down should not have their child's placement dealt with as part of an annual rolling programme of emergency response. The Department and the EA must get ahead of the issue. The necessary planning must be done and the necessary investment must go in so that we do not find ourselves in this situation again. I mean that sincerely: I do not want to be in the Chamber in a year's time debating the same issues. I want us to have got ahead of the issue.”
“Again, it would be welcome to hear from the Minister about the pressures facing medium- to long-term SEN provision in South Down. I thank him for his presence in the Chamber. What assurances can he give on the reform agenda and the end-to-end review? When will we see an action plan arising out of that? There is concern that the review could drag on for many months. We really need to see an action plan on what delivery will look like. <BR /> <BR />Of course, we have that immediate crisis: it is facing us in September, which is getting closer by the day. For parents across South Down and more widely across the region there is genuine anxiety about whether a place will be found for their child and whether that place will be appropriate, which is the crucial consideration.”
“We know that the budgetary position is challenging, so it would be great to hear from the Minister how he sees the timeline for that investment programme. <BR /> <BR />While capital investment in special schools is welcome and special provision is only one element of a complex picture, wider long-term reform, shaped by the end-to-end review of SEN, must be progressed, resourced and prioritised by the Minister if we are to move off the crisis footing in SEN provision. Anyone who has taken the time to watch the Education Committee recently will know that the debate about whether we are experiencing a crisis is a little controversial. I am not into scaremongering or trying to panic parents, but, whatever language we use, the situation is serious and needs to be taken seriously.”
“<BR /> <BR />I welcome the interventions that we have had from the Minister recently in relation to capital moneys being made available for a SEN capital programme. We have had lots of references to Knockevin Special School, which has outgrown the capacity at its two sites. The Minister also referred to the possibility of an extension at Rathore School, and a lot of children from South Down would fall into the catchment area for that school. I would be keen for the Minister to give us more detail on the timelines for the roll-out of that programme of investment for Knockevin, Rathore and any other schools in the South Down area that may benefit. In the educational space, there are often capital investment announcements and photo opportunities at schools, but then we wait many years for shovels to hit the ground.”
“I was keen to speak in the debate as Alliance education spokesperson but also as an MLA whose constituency borders South Down and is soon to get a good chunk of South Down. Sorry, Cathy; I am sure that we are getting all the good bits. Following those boundary changes, I will see a lot of the areas that we are talking about come directly into my constituency. There are issues with SEN provision across Northern Ireland, and access to places for September 2024 is under severe pressure. However, South Down has been identified as one of the areas with a particular set of pressures. That was confirmed by the Minister to the Assembly on 30 April in response to a question for oral answer on the matter.”
“I do not want to come across as overly negative, but there are real concerns that, if we do not tackle the workforce issue, the whole agenda for reform of SEN services will be really jeopardised.”
“There was universal disappointment that the money was not found in the Budget for that vital review. Without the workforce — our excellent support staff — to deliver SEN services, we can make capital announcements and do many, many things, but it does not count for much. As my colleague Andrew McMurray said, it is great to get a new building, but you must have the staff to deliver the service.”
“I also thank Cathy Mason for securing Adjournment debate on what is a very important issue for South Down and across Northern Ireland. I would like to draw attention to the remarks that a number of Members made on the pay and grading review for classroom assistants and on the upcoming strike action that is now facing our schools across Northern Ireland. I think that parents across the whole region, including in South Down, where we know that there are particular pressures, will be very concerned. <BR /> <BR />I hope that, in his remarks, the Minister will be able to address the work that is ongoing on engagement with the unions in order to try to address that impending strike action, as well as the level of engagement with the Treasury to see where we are on securing the necessary resource.”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. Much of that seems to be positive. The speed limit is an issue that constituents regularly raise with reps across the constituency. When will the review of the speed limit on the stretch of road in question be completed? Will he engage directly with elected reps for the area, as he undertook to do in the Adjournment debate, to explain the rationale for any decisions that are taken?”
“<BR /> <BR />I urge all stakeholders in the process to do all that they can to secure the funding from Treasury, and I urge the Education Authority and the Education Minister to engage urgently with the trade unions to resolve the dispute.”
“The most vulnerable children and families under the most strain should not pay the price for the failure to deliver the pay and grading review over many years. Neither should we pit workers vital to the education system against parents and children. Therefore, I urge the Finance Minister, in the first instance, to urgently update the Assembly on what work is being undertaken with Treasury and to redouble the efforts to secure the funding that is needed. I hope that, if an update detailing meaningful progress can be provided, perhaps the action can be paused and disruption avoided for schools and families.”
“Today, we had confirmation that the unions representing non-teaching staff are planning strike action again next week and in June, totalling five days of action. Non-teaching staff were rightly dismayed when the Finance Minister did not allocate any budget to the long-overdue pay and grading review, instead leaving us reliant on the reprofiling of transformation money from Treasury to fund it. That is not how we should fund vital interventions in our education system, and it remains profoundly disappointing that this was not delivered via the appropriate budget allocation. <BR /> <BR />Parents will be deeply concerned. It will disproportionately impact on children with special educational needs and special schools.”
“I thank the deputy First Minister for her answer. Having visited the THRiVE project recently, I am highlighting it as an exemplar of good practice in place-based collaboration. With that in mind, will the deputy First Minister detail how her office will learn from the THRiVE project to ensure that there is genuine collaboration between Departments in this mandate, including the pooling of resources to deliver on key projects?”
“We need a Programme for Government. Otherwise, we will run the risk of compounding silo mentalities and seeing budgets being distributed within Departments in a context disconnected from any overarching strategic priorities. <BR /> <BR />I am very happy to lend my support to the motion. I call on the First Minister and deputy First Minister to prioritise this work now so that this already shortened mandate does not become a missed opportunity to transform how we do government in Northern Ireland.”
“A failure to set out a long-term vision for public policy in Northern Ireland hurts only those who need it most. It undermines the work that is needed to help the most marginalised communities. As referenced by other contributors, we have not had a confirmed Programme for Government in over 10 years. That is not good enough, but it is, sadly, symptomatic of the instability of these institutions and indicative of the need to reform them in order to stabilise government in this place. <BR /> <BR />It takes leadership to set out a strategic direction for the Executive, not just an articulation of how much it costs to deliver public services. The public have a right to know what the Executive, collectively, seek to achieve: how we will get out of departmental silos and collaborate meaningfully to deliver for the public.”
“The Alliance Party has consistently argued that, due to a range of factors, that figure should be adjusted to 127%, not least to properly account for the cost of funding policing and justice in this place. A cycle of repeated short-term cash injections that provides a sticking plaster as we continue on a cycle of collapse and restoration will not be enough to sustain our finances. We need a proper funding settlement, a multi-year Budget and the ability to plan. That means that there must be no more stop-start government. <BR /> <BR />Whilst our Executive will, I hope, continue to push for that transformation of our funding model at Westminster, we need to see the ambition of our First Minister and deputy First Minister set out clearly, with clear signposts and indicators that will allow for proper accountability on delivery.”
“A Budget has been announced, but we do not yet have a clear statement of what the Executive will prioritise or the outcomes that will be sought, which is how we measure performance across Departments. That is not the context that we should be operating in for the people of Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />It would be remiss of me not to recognise the fact that, as the motion highlights, we are in dire need of a fiscal framework that delivers the resource necessary to deliver fit-for-purpose public services. The Northern Ireland Fiscal Council showed that Northern Ireland's funding formula needs to be set at 124% per head compared with funding in England in order for us to deliver equally effective services.”
“I support the motion. It is imperative that we have a Programme for Government that provides clarity, direction and transparency for the road to be travelled by the Northern Ireland Executive in this shortened mandate. After the unnecessary and damaging suspension of the institutions came to an end earlier this year, the opportunity for collaborative working between our Executive Ministers was restored. There is no doubt that the challenge facing every Minister is substantial. It includes ensuring fair pay for public-sector workers; the cost of childcare; health service transformation; delivering first-class education for our children; addressing the impact of the historical underfunding of our justice system; and addressing the environmental crisis at Lough Neagh. We have, however, been back for 100 days.”
“Has the Minister considered formally incorporating the concept of green budgeting into the Budget process, drawing on the experience of other jurisdictions such as France?”
“— at the Ulster Hospital again, I welcome that and hope that Members will support it.”
“What is not required is the undoing of planned change and the reform of how we deliver what is a fairly small element of treatment in the area. Not small to the people who need it but, as my colleague Andrew Muir said, small in the scale of the health service. <BR /> <BR />These are the kind of planned changes and reform that we need to be encouraging and supporting as elected representatives, not blocking. I urge my colleagues across the House from North Down and Strangford to get behind the transformation agenda. As we do hope to see the urgent care system developing —”
“<BR /> <BR />I acknowledge that all of this is said in the context of an ED service at the Ulster Hospital and across Northern Ireland that is under huge pressure. None of us doubt that. The patient experience is unacceptable in many emergency departments, but the trust is clear, and I take the same view, that that patient experience in ED is not to do with the closure of MIUs. It is about a hospital system that is not functioning. It is about patients who cannot get discharged because there are no domiciliary care packages, and it is about an Ambulance Service that is struggling to offload patients because of clogging in the system. We need to be brave enough to take the decisions to tackle those problems with our creaking systems.”
“We have patients accessing more streamlined care. I have heard from clinicians working in the service that many can be discharged home from the MIU to return the next day for a scheduled attendance, with scan or X-ray results provided. Those are patients who would have been waiting in the ED for hours and hours, possibly through the night, to receive those results. I know which service I would prefer. In March, 3,500 patients were seen in the MIU, just over 2,000 of them by nurse practitioners and 1,500 by other medical staff on site. Typically, those were more complex cases that could not have been dealt with in Bangor or Newtownards and would almost certainly have had to be redirected to the Ulster Hospital anyway.”
“That is a significant improvement on the five-days-a-week service that previously operated on the other sites. As far as I am concerned, this represents a planned change to locate a service in a setting with access to the expertise that can treat minor injuries and to clinicians who can provide care in more serious cases, should it be required. There is also access to scanning and imaging equipment and a consultant-led team, should the condition be serious enough to require it. <BR /> <BR />As I referenced, the new service was designed to reduce attendance at hugely stretched ED services and improve the flow through the system for the least sick patients. I agree that all services need time to be fully evaluated and to bed in, but it appears to me that the new MIU is performing well. We have customer satisfaction rates at around 98%.”
“I agree with that, and I know that no change in service is ever perfect from day 1, but, in my view, this minor injury unit is about providing an enhanced service for the least sick patients who do not need to be in an emergency department. <BR /> <BR />Last year, the trust took the decision to change how minor injuries were treated in the Ards and North Down area. We got confirmation that the old Bangor MIU would remain closed and that the Newtownards site would close, moving all minor injuries treatment to the Ulster Hospital. As already referenced, the new service that is available at the Ulster brings an enhanced offering for patients. There are longer opening hours — 70 hours-a-week access rather than the previous 40 — and a service that is seven days a week, 365 days a year.”
“It is my understanding that, if anything, the minor injury unit is actually reducing the number of patients attending the ED and getting clogged up in that system. <BR /> <BR />I also want to pick up on a comment by Michelle McIlveen that seemed to conflate services at the old minor injury unit and what a GP provides. I suggest that the conditions for which you attend your GP do not require services that you expect to receive at a minor injury unit, which is for broken fingers, dislocated shoulders and those sorts of conditions. I do not imagine that those would require queuing at your GP's surgery, so I am not sure where that comparison was being drawn. I also want to pick up on a comment from Stephen Dunne, who suggested that this was not about saving money but about improving the patient experience.”
“Before I begin my remarks, I want to find the one point of agreement that we have had, which is that we should all pay tribute to our Health and Social Care staff, particularly those working in emergency medicine and unscheduled care. They are doing a fantastic job in very difficult circumstances across Northern Ireland, but I think that that may be the only point of agreement that we have reached in the debate. <BR /> <BR />Before I look at my prepared remarks, I will pick up on a few things that were mentioned in the debate. Mr Easton suggested that the minor injury unit at the Ulster was in some way contributing to the delays and the backlogs and the difficulty of moving patients through the emergency department.”
“I will raise an issue that is related to SEN placements and connected to workforce. We have a crisis in the provision of educational psychologists and speech and language therapists, without whom the SEN system cannot function. What level of resource will the Minister commit to tackling those issues in the months ahead?”
“I thank the Minister for his statement. There is much to welcome in it. I welcome the ongoing commitment to prioritising capital investment in special schools and in specialist provision in mainstream schools. I have received feedback from many principals in mainstream and special-school settings about the fact that the whole system of investment appears to be done on a knee-jerk crisis-response footing as we try to deliver places. How will the Minister ensure that the investment he outlined, specifically relating to the SPiMS provision but also additional class provision in special schools, will be delivered in a planned, strategic and targeted basis, rather than by taking a crisis approach to deal with the shortage of spaces each academic year on a rolling basis?”
“The Minister will be aware that the news that the money and resource required for the non-teaching staff pay and grading review were not in the Budget was met with widespread dismay among staff who work in that sector. Will the Minister outline how we arrived at a position where resource for that review was not found? What can be done to remedy that?”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. His papers that have been tabled with the Committee detail how there will be conditions that the member must meet to attend a council meeting remotely. Can the Minister advise what those conditions will be?”
“I thank the Minister for giving way. I understand the scale of the challenges in the education system as you have set them out. Anyone sitting in the Education Committee could not argue with anything you said about the challenges, but we also hear from young people that, despite the fact that we have a very professional teaching workforce and engaged parent bodies, we have a situation wherein young people say that RSE does not meet their needs or relate to the lives that they lead or the world that they live in. Do you also agree, setting aside all those other things and the context that you set, that it is your responsibility, as Education Minister, to ensure that the RSE curriculum meets the needs of young people?”
“I fear that, if we do not place responsibility for this work with our schools and teachers, we pass that responsibility on to others, including in the online space, who do not always have the best interest of our children and young people at heart. A proper, high-quality, standardised RSE curriculum removes that risk and places our children in a safer and better place.”
“Ideally, support materials should be provided along with those so that they can continue constructive and supportive conversations with their children at home. <BR /> <BR />It is clear that RSE in schools is an issue on which there are strongly held views across the spectrum. That has been very clear from the debate today. As a parent, and as someone who cares about the education of all children in Northern Ireland, it is my strong view that the high-quality RSE that we refer to in our motion is nothing to be feared. It is about keeping our children safe and healthy and preparing them for life in a world that actually reflects the world they live in and lives that are increasingly lived online, where they are exposed to great risk of harm. To not prepare them for that is doing them a great disservice.”
“That is why I agree that it is absolutely crucial that teachers and school staff have the proper support, training and resources that they feel they need to be confident to deliver RSE in schools. If the proper and appropriate curriculum was delivered, it would need to go hand in hand with the right support for teachers. <BR /> <BR />Parents, of course, have a vital role in this. I do not think that anybody is denying that. The ETI report characterised best practice as a whole-school planning process that involves wide-ranging consultation with all stakeholders, including parents, pupils and governors. I strongly argue that parents and carers should have access to the materials that are used in RSE.”
“That should not be painted as somehow irresponsible or not paying proper regard to the welfare of children. However, not enough has been said about the views of young people. We need to listen to young people in this space. It is not acceptable that young people are leaving school saying, in some cases, that they did not receive this type of curriculum at all or that the curriculum that they received was not fit for purpose and did not prepare them for life in the real world. <BR /> <BR />The ETI report on the preventative curriculum in schools, which I have mentioned, found that, as has been highlighted, teachers felt they lacked the knowledge, skills and confidence to deliver the curriculum in this space.”
“We are simply equipping children and young people with information about how to keep themselves and others safe. Programmes should be able to respond to the needs of children as they mature, so that they can make well-informed and responsible choices about their lives. I want to be very clear that RSE is not, as has been suggested by some Members, about trying to change anybody's mind or trying to impose a value system on anybody. It is about providing pupils with facts and information and a safe space to discuss these issues with their peers under the guidance of well-equipped and confident teachers. <BR /> <BR />Much reference has been made to the rights of parents. I speak as a parent, and I care deeply about the education of my children and making sure that they have access to this kind of information.”
“The Education and Training Inspectorate (ETI) report on the preventative curriculum in schools highlights the downside to the flexibility and adaptability that is afforded by that non-statutory approach. Provision is at risk of becoming patchy, and the quality and depth of the provision will vary depending on the school. There are things, with regard to the welfare, well-being and safeguarding of our children, that all children need to learn to be prepared for life. <BR /> <BR />As the motion states, RSE is a means of empowering and preparing our children and young people for life. We must equip them with evidence-based information to make informed choices about a whole range of topics and issues that they will encounter in their lives. It is not something to be feared.”
“A wide range of treaties, expert reports and children's rights and safeguarding groups have set out the case for standardised, inclusive, high-quality, evidence-based and age-appropriate relationships and sexuality education. From here on in, I will refer to it as high-quality RSE, as that is quite wordy. A whole-school, comprehensive approach to RSE has the potential to prevent harm to children by supporting them to recognise abuse, know how and where to ask for help, understand consent and healthy relationships and to enable adults to identify concerning behaviour and know what to do if a disclosure is made. <BR /> <BR />Our current approach, as has been highlighted by some Members, to the preventative curriculum provides schools with the flexibility to put in place a curriculum that fits with the culture of an individual school.”
“I thank the Minister for her answer, which Members across the Chamber will welcome. How many people in Northern Ireland does she anticipate that the measure will affect?”
“I thank the Minister for her answers so far. Will she give a bit more detail on the impact that the rising prison population has on the ability to deliver rehabilitation work in prisons?”
“Schools can simply no longer afford to use their already inadequate budgets to do that early intervention work on behalf of Departments.”
“Resources targeted at mental health and well-being support, including access to counselling services in schools, are a vital tool in easing the pressure on those services by getting help to children when they need it, making support as accessible as possible and preventing initial mental health concerns from becoming a crisis that needs longer-term health service intervention. The loss of the service will, of course, impact the children who rely on it now, but we must note the wider problem that that speaks to. The Health Minister and the Education Minister need to prioritise providing secure and stable funding for vital mental health early intervention work with our primary-school children. Healthy Happy Minds funding was pulled with little warning or planning last year.”
“The service uses a child-centred approach that incorporates a whole-school approach to well-being and has prioritised work in the most disadvantaged areas of Northern Ireland. The results of the service speak for themselves. In 2022-23, 81% of children who attended the service were described as being in clinical distress at the outset but in the normal range at the end of their access to the service. <BR /> <BR />Child and adolescent mental health services are under severe pressure in Northern Ireland.”
“The Barnardo's NI regional 'Time 4 Me' service has provided professional counselling to primary school pupils for over 17 years but will sadly close in June 2024. In the absence of sustainable funding, Barnardo's has had to use its charitable resources, alongside substantial resources from schools' squeezed budgets. That has become no longer sustainable. The charity has long warned government officials that, without adequate funding for mental health support in schools, vital services like 'Time 4 Me' would close, leaving children with no access to a service. <BR /> <BR />Over the past 17 years, the 'Time 4 Me' service has worked in around 70 primary schools across all school sectors, supporting nearly 3,000 pupils through the delivery of 30,000 sessions of counselling and therapy.”