Nick Mathison
Strangford · Alliance Party · Northern Ireland
“That second part is important. In the scrutiny of the Minister's Bill on school uniforms, we got a little tied up over how we could build in provisions on PE, but, when we got to work on this Bill, we found that there is a simple formulation that will ensure that participation in sport and PE, which, we should remember, is a statutory par…”
“<BR /> <BR />On the basis of that feedback and the other evidence that we received, two draft approaches to developing the Bill were considered. The first was to create a separate, stand-alone Bill with a stand-alone right for pupils to be afforded the choice to wear trousers and to set that out in law.”
“Many schools do that really well, but others, regrettably, do not. To me, only legislation will guarantee the behaviour change that we need. It is not good enough for a Minister to say to young people, "But I give you permission to go and campaign. You run the campaign. Look at Rhea and Astrid: didn't they do so well?".”
“I will name a few: the school uniform must be affordable, so schools have no autonomy on that; and schools must consult with parents when they are changing their policy, so they have no autonomy on that. I could go through every one of the guidelines.”
“depending on the activity. That was to ensure that the need for appropriate clothing for sporting activities was reflected. <BR /> <BR />Ultimately, it is a permissive Bill. It is simply focused on creating a universal right to have the choice to wear trousers and enshrining that in the guidance.”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I will not speak for long, and I do not plan to rehearse everything that has been said. However, I begin by doing something that I overlooked when I spoke at the beginning: thanking the Deputy Chair of the Committee who first proposed the Bill.”
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“I cannot disagree with that. However, I also cannot connect that to the approach that we take at primary school, when sometimes from P5 and certainly from P6 and P7 onwards, there is almost an exclusive focus on teaching to the SEAG test — an exclusive focus on numeracy and literacy — to the exclusion of other areas of the curriculum. If we want to have more time for deeper learning, we need to put our money where our mouth is and do that at all stages of the education system; indeed, Lucy Crehan, when carrying out her review of the Northern Ireland curriculum, spoke to that directly. She acknowledged that, while it was not in her remit to deal with academic selection, it has an impact on the curriculum in primary school and it is not a positive one: in fact, it is quite the opposite.”
“In a system where money follows the pupil, that could have profound impacts on a non-selective school's budget. We have to be serious about that, if we are serious about tackling the financial crisis in education. <BR /> <BR />When announcing the TransformED proposals last year, the Minister said very clearly, in a statement that I agree with:”
“<BR /> <BR />I want to bring in an element that other Members have not touched on, which is the financial and budgetary element. The demographics are changing, and we are seeing a decline in pupil numbers. We anticipate potentially a 25% reduction in primary-school numbers in the next 10 to 15 years. That connects to academic selection in a profound way, because, while there is a cultural assumption that grammar school should be prioritised and that that is where you should seek to send your child, ultimately, grammar schools and selective schools could just lower the threshold every year and simply become full schools. Then, the non-selective sector would have a smaller pool of pupils that it is trying to attract to their schools.”
“I thank the Member for her intervention. Absolutely, I agree. In these types of debates, so many lazy assumptions are made that one thing equals success and another does not. We should simply look for success for all our children and young people. We should aspire to the notion that every school should be a good school, rather than try to siphon children off according to some preconceived notions of academic ability. <BR /> <BR />I will probably be up against time now. With regard to social mobility, Ulster University research recently highlighted that about 37% of pupils in non-selective schools are entitled to free school meals compared with 13% of pupils who attend grammar schools. Therefore, any idea that we are not segregating children to some degree based on their economic background does not hold water.”
“<BR /> <BR />Before getting into the detail, I also want to address the phrase "academic selection". It is a phrase that I am not really comfortable with. It creates an impression that we have a system that is able to select children based on innate ability that is identified at the age of 11. I am not sure that the current system of testing with SEAG is robust or provides objective measures of ability, nor do I think that it is desirable to try to fix a child's ability and potential at that stage of their educational journey. That seems to me to be completely at odds with the ambitions that we should have for all our children and young people. <BR /> <BR />While many will argue, as Mr Brooks has done today, that our process of academic selection promotes social mobility, the evidence concludes otherwise.”
“I am happy to confirm at the outset that the Alliance Party supports the motion and the amendment, and we thank the Members who tabled the motion. I will address the comments that Mr Burrows made to Cara Hunter during her contribution. I will clear it up before he engages in that again: I am the product of a grammar-school education. I will not pretend that I have a story about going to a school of hard knocks. I am the son of a GP, and I went to the local grammar school. The system worked perfectly for me, but I do not think that we should make educational policy based on one Member or another's anecdotal experience of the education system. That is a very lazy way to make policy. We need to make policy based on the evidence of the outcomes that it delivers for children across the system.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. He said that it is about sorting children into the appropriate school environment for them. Is he saying that he stands over our current system of testing as being an accurate, objective and reliable measure for assessing a child's ability and that that ability is innately fixed at age 11?”
“I thank the Minister for his statement. It should be acknowledged that, although you could have kicked this into the long grass and had an endless review process, you chose to act quickly, which is welcome. <BR /> <BR />The Education and Libraries (Northern Ireland) Order 1986 requires RE teaching to be based on the Holy Scriptures. Given that we are moving into a space in which we need an RE syllabus that is objective, critical and pluralistic, does that requirement in the legislation allow such a curriculum to be delivered? If not, is there a need to look at legislative change to ensure that we can deliver the ambition in the statement?”
“My understanding is that the issue lies with the common funding formula and nurseries' status as stand-alone nursery schools. That should not be an impediment to receiving funding to deliver education. Will you commit, on the record, that you will correct the seemingly administrative and bureaucratic error that is resulting in funding being withheld?”
“Considering the notion of mergers and amalgamations, is the Minister able to outline any work that the Department is doing to take forward the independent review of education's recommendations around establishing an independent area planning commission, in order to take proactive steps towards building a school estate that will be sustainable into the future?”
“I thank the Minister for her answer and for the ongoing engagement. She will know that there has long been an issue in our education system with parity of esteem between vocational and academic pathways. What is being done, and what concrete actions are being taken, particularly at this time of significant change to our curriculum and to qualifications, to progress the independent review of education recommendations on ensuring that vocational pathways are available to all learners from the age of 14?”
“Has the Minister examined any models, such as that of Skillnet Ireland, whereby employers directly shape the training delivered through colleges, and will she outline what plans she has to strengthen those links between business and education here?”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. Back in 2025, he made an announcement in the House that £200,000 was being provided as a capital budget allocation for the project, but, as far as I can tell, none of that money has been spent on the redevelopment of Newtownards library. Is there a risk that the money for the project will be lost? What assurances can the Minister give the people of Newtownards that it is a project that he will progress?”
“I thank the Minister for his statement. I will expand on the previous question. You mentioned the role of the Middletown Centre for Autism and the services that it provides for SEN across jurisdictions. In the challenging budget context that we are in, how do you anticipate that role being enhanced?”
“It is therefore time for the Minister of Education to facilitate a public conversation on the future of our post-primary transfer process so that we can get to grips with the issue, bring the current system to an end and deliver better outcomes for our children and young people.”
“<BR /> <BR />We will all be aware of the unprecedented budgetary pressures and financial context in which the Department of Education is currently operating. Our system of academic selection plays a role in impacting on some of those costs, whether that be through the area-planning process and skewing decisions about where we need schools, the impact on home-to-school transport funding or the continued duplication in our school system. Academic selection comes at a financial cost as well as at a cost to children's mental health and well-being. <BR /> <BR />Every year, I hear from parents who are fed up with the system. They want to see politicians and political leaders come up with a better approach to how our children move from primary to post-primary education.”
“<BR /> <BR />Many parents will be all too aware of the stress placed on our children and young people that is created by their preparing for, sitting and then receiving the results of any sort of academic selection. The evidence is clear. It demonstrates that failing to gain access to the school that they had hoped for, or to gain the result that they had hoped for in the test, can have a profound impact on our children's mental health. <BR /> <BR />The independent review of education was clear that our current process of academic selection perpetuates socio-economic division between selective and non-selective schools. We continue to facilitate a system that serves to benefit a few already generally privileged pupils and to perpetuate demographic trends, which are at odds with building a shared and inclusive society.”
“As everyone will know, thousands of children across Northern Ireland received their Schools' Entrance Assessment Group test results at the weekend. Many will be delighted with the outcome, while others will be disappointed. There will be others who chose not to sit the test who will be unsure of their next steps in the post-primary transfer process. <BR /> <BR />I put it clearly on the record that I believe that our current system of post-primary transfer is failing many of our children. It is an unfair and unnecessary process for our 10- and 11-year-old children to sit those tests simply for them to move on to the next stage in their education journey, where they will engage in a common curriculum at Key Stage 3 with all their peers, as they have done throughout primary school.”
“We are not aware of many Committee Stages, if any, that complete within that timescale, so it is entirely standard and normal practice for Committees to extend the stage. On that basis, I am content that, on balance, the Committee Stage extension to 27 May 2026 is reasonable and proportionate and builds in adequate time for the consideration of all the relevant factors in the Bill's legislative proposals.”
“There will then be time for the development and consideration of potential Committee amendments, followed by informal and formal clause-by-clause scrutiny and approval of the Bill. The consideration and approval of the final Committee report to the Assembly would then be the final stage of the process. The Committee believes that it has designed its time limit to permit adequate time to complete each of those steps thoroughly, but it will aim to complete the task before the extension date, if appropriate and comprehensive scrutiny allows. <BR /> <BR />I think that all Members will agree that the current rationale setting out the 30-day term for a Committee Stage in Standing Order 33(2) is not entirely clear.”
“The Committee will undoubtedly hear evidence on what the appropriate approach is, but a body that effectively defines professional standards for our teaching professionals is carrying out a very important function, if not always a well-known, public-facing function, so it is vital that we ensure that best practice in governance arrangements is in place for that body. <BR /> <BR />The Committee intends to carry out scrutiny through the following core components of a Committee Stage: a call for evidence, which has gone out; the taking of oral evidence sessions on the substance of the Bill; Committee deliberation on the evidence received; and further engagement with departmental officials to answer queries arising from evidence sessions and members' consideration of the Bill.”
“The Committee has already launched a Citizen Space survey on the provisions of the Bill and has invited all relevant educational stakeholders to submit written submissions on its proposals. <BR /> <BR />The Committee appreciates that a Bill on the regulatory body for teachers may be considered a fairly niche area of interest, with feedback coming from some teachers that even they are not always completely clear on the functions of the General Teaching Council for Northern Ireland (GTCNI), but it has been made clear to the Committee that it is a body that is in need of substantial reform. There has been debate on whether the body required winding up entirely and being reconstituted as something else, but the Minister's legislative proposals are to reform the body and alter the structures within which it operates.”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I will not take up too much of Members' time; hopefully, the issues are reasonably straightforward. <BR /> <BR />The Committee for Education decided its timeline for the Committee Stage of the General Teaching Council Bill while giving care and attention to the competing Committee priorities and to the crucial components of good scrutiny of legislation. Considering all the relevant factors, the Committee agreed a motion to extend the stage until 27 May 2026. <BR /> <BR />The Committee took a pre-legislative and introductory briefing and received correspondence from departmental officials. We received procedural advice from the Committee Clerk and Bill Clerks and then mapped out what we considered to be a reasonable time frame for effective Committee scrutiny.”
“I thank the Minister for his statement. Given that we face unprecedented levels of pressure, as he has outlined, not least on capital budgets, is it not time to ask whether the £375 million estimated price tag for the Strule shared education campus is still feasible? We have not seen a clear value for money case for the campus, and the independent review of education could see no educational advantage being afforded by the project.”
“I thank the Minister for the answer provided. It is clear to me that mid-Down, which serves a large part of my Strangford constituency, is one area that ticks all the boxes in demonstrating demand for integrated education. Can the Minister provide an update on what action he is taking to progress that project?”
“Thank you, Minister. As has been referenced, the latest labour force survey shows that around 23,000 young people in Northern Ireland are not in education, employment or training. In that context, if Barnett consequentials materialise on the back of the UK scheme, will you make the case that some of it should be allocated to tackling those numbers and the underlying causes that keep young people out of employment and training?”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. There are so many issues, as he has alluded to, in tackling poverty for which we need cross-departmental action, not least when we seek to tackle poverty that affects children. The issue of widening access to free school meals was debated a couple of weeks ago in the Chamber. What collaborative work is he undertaking with the Education Minister to deliver on that agenda?”
“I think the Member for giving way. I am not sure whether there was anything in my remarks to suggest that the Committee was not going to ask some of the questions that you have highlighted. In our discussion and our pre-legislative briefing, I do not think that I heard anything particularly clear coming through from the Opposition around any concerns with the Bill. However, will the Member agree that, if it is possible to deliver an effective, functioning GTCNI at a reduced cost through the reforms being proposed in the Bill, we will want to do that in the most cost-effective way, and, if it proves to be the case that that is not a viable proposal, we should keep other options on the table?”
“The GTCNI must have the confidence of stakeholders across the system. It must have the confidence of teachers but also of parents, who will want to be assured of the maintenance of the highest possible professional standards in our education system. <BR /> <BR />I look forward to engaging with the Bill in more detail as it progresses through the Assembly, and I look forward to the more detailed scrutiny work that lies ahead.”
“In the past, the body has had its leadership and governance problems, but that does not detract from the importance of its function. It is right that we should want such a body to deliver effective regulation that will ensure appropriate and robust standards of registration and advise the Department effectively on the training and professional development of the teaching professionals who are paying into the system. <BR /> <BR />It is also essential that we acknowledge that there were, undoubtedly, failings in the previous iteration of the GTCNI. Those failings were endemic and were in place for many years. In many regards, the Committee will need to judge the legislation on the basis of its assessment of the extent to which it can adequately redress the failings of the past.”
“<BR /> <BR />It was clear from the Committee's pre-legislative briefing with officials that the GTCNI is often poorly understood by teaching professionals and the wider public — indeed, Committee members reported that their dealings with the body had been infrequent — and that there is a need to ensure that everybody clearly understands the precise functions of the GTCNI and exactly how the Bill will alter them. That is something that we will need to reflect on as the Bill goes through its legislative journey. <BR /> <BR />It is important that we do not lose sight of the fact a body responsible for registering and regulating teachers in Northern Ireland carries out a critical function in our education system.”
“<BR /> <BR />Other issues that the Committee will, undoubtedly, scrutinise in more detail will include the reasons why there has been a departure from the previous Education Minister's position of winding up the GTCNI entirely and establishing a brand new body — the Minister referenced that briefly in his remarks — and why an appointment system is being adopted, rather than a system in which at least some elected members are appointed to the GTCNI's board. I am happy to stand corrected if I have misunderstood this, but I would like clarification of whether we are moving towards a 12-member board. I am not sure whether that is specifically referenced in the Bill, but it was recommended in the review and appears to be the direction of travel.”
“It will make it an offence for a teacher or individual, with deliberate intent to deceive, to claim falsely to hold GTCNI registration or to provide false or misleading information to the GTCNI when seeking to obtain teacher registration. I have no doubt that the Committee will seek to scrutinise the balance between the importance of safeguarding and how that is weighed up against the criminal penalties being proposed. As we go through the Bill's Committee Stage, following today's debate, it is important that the Department sets out the clear rationale for the approach that is being adopted on the matter.”
“<BR /> <BR />Officials were clear in their evidence in that session that some of those questions would be for the newly constituted council to address, once established. The legislation, in many ways, creates powers that the newly established body can develop in relation to the setting of fees, appointing committees and subcommittees and setting rules for the qualifications required to register, much of which was referenced in the Minister's opening remarks. However, the Committee will want to look at whether the appropriate balance is being struck between delegation of those powers to the GTCNI and the requirement for clear and robust departmental oversight. <BR /> <BR />I note — no doubt, the Committee will want to look at it in detail — that the Bill makes provision for two criminal offences.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Committee is grateful to the officials who provided it with a pre-legislative brief in October. A range of questions was raised at that meeting about the GTCNI's role in respect of training, career development for teachers and the setting of standards rather than the Department setting them. Members were also concerned about how the proposed new board might be appointed, the role of teaching professionals on the board, the make-up of the six non-teaching members and how independence from the Department would be ensured. The Committee also asked questions about the annual fee, how it would be calculated, what feedback mechanisms there would be for teachers and the handling of disciplinary processes and sanctions.”
“From the Committee's perspective, it is essential that the Bill represent the culmination of work that has had the appropriate level of input from relevant stakeholders if it is to have the confidence of teachers and the wider public. I know that the Minister has referenced the need for further engagement on bringing forward some of the powers in the Bill, so perhaps he can speak directly today to what that engagement and consultation process may look like. <BR /> <BR />As has been set out, General Teaching Council NI staff have continued to operate under Department of Education oversight. It is welcome that the Department has reported major improvements not only in its work on teacher registration and governance but in its governance structures and accountability requirements as an arm's-length body.”
“In that interim period, consultations and engagement exercises have been undertaken that confirmed that all GTCNI's statutory functions, in the view of the stakeholders who engaged with those processes, play an important role in protecting the quality of our teaching workforce. The view that came through was that all those functions needed to be retained. <BR /> <BR />I note both from the Committee evidence that we received from officials and from the explanatory and financial memorandum (EFM) that was provided by the Department and is supplementary to the Bill that not all those consultation exercises received particularly high levels of contact or engagement.”
“The GTCNI's council and board were stood down in December 2021 following an independent board effectiveness review that, as the Minister set out clearly, identified systemic failures in its leadership and recommended the dissolution of the organisation. At that stage, the Department judged that that step required legislative change. <BR /> <BR />Officials have outlined to the Committee the interim leadership arrangements that have been in place since 2021, under which the GTCNI has reportedly made significant operational improvements, in particular on teacher registration and governance.”
“Successive Committees for Education have engaged in scrutiny of the General Teaching Council for over two mandates, and some of the issues highlighted by the Minister have been well rehearsed in that context. It is therefore welcome to see legislation coming forward that tries to address some of the issues that have been identified with the General Teaching Council over the past number of years. <BR /> <BR />Some of my comments will reflect the broad chronology outlined by the Minister. As has been set out, the General Teaching Council for Northern Ireland is the professional body for teachers in Northern Ireland. It is one of the Department of Education's arm's-length bodies (ALBs) and is accountable to the Education Minister and the Northern Ireland Assembly.”
“Minister, you have been clear about the pressure facing all Departments. Will you provide detail on any engagement that you have had with the Education Minister on his plans to live within budget in this financial year and wider plans to transform how we deliver education in the most efficient and sustainable way possible?”
“I do not underestimate the scale of the budget challenges, but I ask that we look at ambitious plans for transformation within the education system and a planned, phased approach for delivering on the issue.”
“We need to see an agenda for how we can run that system more efficiently. The issues around the Children's Services Co-operation Act (Northern Ireland) 2015 are also relevant. It is not simply a matter for the Education Minister, and I have no doubt that he will set that out in his remarks. It requires an approach across all Departments; in particular, I highlight Health and Communities. Andy Allen's intervention about taking an invest-to-save approach was very helpful. For me, this feels like one of those issues where that is entirely appropriate. <BR /> <BR />I am happy to support today's motion, and I hope that it gets support across the House.”
“I do not think that anybody here believes that we are in a budgetary position where that sort of money is available. However, setting a direction of travel and planning to deliver over a planned phased period is work that we should, surely, all get behind. <BR /> <BR />The financial challenge has already been raised by a Member. It is important that the Minister does not just set out the scale of the challenge in his budget but that we hear about his plans for transformation within the education system that would deliver savings and approaches to deliver our education system more effectively. It will come as no surprise to anybody that, in the Alliance Party, we consistently highlight the issues of a divided education system and of a school estate that, we know, simply has too many schools and schools that are not in the right place.”
“<BR /> <BR />It would be remiss of me not to acknowledge the extremely challenging budgetary position that the Department is facing. Gary Middleton has already set that out. However, the Children's Commissioner's briefing on free school meal eligibility does set out some key recommendations on how we can begin to distribute provision on a phased basis, looking perhaps at interventions that could impact on younger children first, ensuring that the youngest children in our school system could receive at least one nutritious meal a day at school, and to help overcome the stigma associated with free school meals. That could then be expanded to older children as budget allows. I do not pretend that any of that can be delivered overnight.”
“<BR /> <BR />Despite assurances from the Minister of Education and the Minister for Communities that work would be undertaken to properly scope out auto-enrolment for those who are eligible for free school meals — a practical intervention that could address some of the difficulties around the need to reapply every year — it is not clear how that has been progressed, if at all. I would welcome clarity from the Minister on whether there is any live work ongoing on that issue, because, while budgets are tight, practical and pragmatic interventions that can improve the picture are always welcome, and I do not think that data sharing or bureaucracy should be a barrier to getting free school meal provision to those children who need it most.”
“A number of reports show that current provision for free school meals often does not get to the children who need it most, and the research commissioned by the Northern Ireland Commissioner for Children and Young People set out the concerning fact that 41% of children in poverty are not, in fact, eligible for free school meals, and 66% of children who are eligible for free school meals are not, in fact, in poverty. That is not a picture that any of us should be relaxed about in 2025. Those are incredibly concerning statistics.”
“Teachers will regularly speak of children whom they know will come into school not having had breakfast or who arrive at school without an adequate lunch having been provided. There is no doubt that that has a hugely detrimental effect on a child's ability to learn and to concentrate, and that is not an acceptable scenario that we want for any of our children. <BR /> <BR />The system that we have in Northern Ireland for free school meal provision is not ideal either. Parents must reapply each year, even if their circumstances have not changed. Eligibility is based around the receipt of social security benefits and income thresholds that often do not reflect the true impact of the cost-of-living crisis. Nor, indeed, does it reach all those children who are most in need.”
“I support the motion. Notwithstanding a challenging Budget picture, which I have no doubt that the Minister will speak to, as has Gary Middleton, Alliance has long been supportive of wider provision of free school meals in Northern Ireland. We are happy to support the motion on that basis. Last year, I was pleased to sponsor the UNISON free school meals campaign event, which took place here in Parliament Buildings and recognised the work of that campaign, which began in 2021. In many ways, today's motion is very much indebted to that UNISON free school meals campaign. <BR /> <BR />As everyone has highlighted already, we all know the importance of ensuring that children are in school, properly nourished and ready to learn. Unfortunately, that is not a reality that can be guaranteed for all children in our schools.”
“On the issue at hand, the Minister has already highlighted the role of the inspectorate in RE and that it does not have a formal role in Northern Ireland. Given the attention now being placed on those issues, will the Minister commit to reviewing that anomaly and move us into a space where RE can be formally and routinely inspected in our schools?”
“For anybody who has been kept awake at night worrying about whether the Alliance Party supports the teaching of witchcraft in RE or, indeed, in collective worship: if that has been something that has been causing you concern, I can clearly put it on the record that it does not.”