Nuala McAllister
North Belfast · Alliance Party · Northern Ireland
“I have submitted quite a number of questions for written answer on autism services, and the answers, sometimes on the same day from the Department, contradict themselves. The Minister often refers to the emotional health and well-being framework as the idea that will frame all of the uniform services.”
“Absolutely. Everyone is taking my speech; I was going to say that. Of course, it is complex and subjective to the individual person. If we are truly talking about keeping an individual safe and other prisoners safe, we would not do what the amendment proposes; we would carry on in the way that the system already operates, using a risk-bas…”
“I thank the Member for his question. The Assembly Commission is progressing a programme of remedial works to address defects identified in the roof of Parliament Buildings and to protect the long-term integrity of this grade A listed building. The works have been structured in two phases.”
“More often than not, we have conversations in the Chamber or in public about trans women, but that would place a trans man who has been convicted of a violent crime against a woman in a prison with women. It does not make sense, and it is not coming from the perspective of safety; it is coming from ideology.”
“In providing catering services throughout Parliament Buildings, the Assembly Commission strives to meet the differing demands of the special dietary needs of our wide customer base.”
“I support amendment No 96 and oppose amendment No 97. I do not plan to speak to amendment No 96, as there were a number of interventions last night, and I will leave many of the remarks to my party colleague the Minister of Justice. <BR /> <BR />We oppose Timothy Gaston's amendment.”
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“Not under these amendments; that is what I was coming to. <BR /> <BR />There are three conditions: A, B and C. If a case is made under condition C, in that the allegation comes to light after the person retires, once the Act is commenced, the Police Ombudsman must, in serious cases, take into consideration:”
“Absolutely. It needs to be said that, from my perspective, the intent of the amendments was never to include such legacy cases. We know that the PSNI is under overwhelming stress in dealing with legacy cases and having to take resources from current cases in order to do so.”
“I thank the Minister. I was not coming to that point, so it is helpful that she intervened to highlight it.”
“I raise that because it is important. I would like to see the DUP support those amendments. I understand that it has concerns that they might include legacy cases and cases that go really far back. What is laid down there will come in regulations.”
“That is important, and I am more than happy to work with the Minister at the Policing Board and do what I can to ensure that all the mechanisms are in place to enable that. It is important to highlight that officers in Northern Ireland carry out their duties under different circumstances to officers elsewhere, not only across the UK and Ireland but anywhere in the world. It is important to highlight that the list is not going to be publicly available. Someone cannot just google it and find out who is on it, especially when someone is under investigation. <BR /> <BR />I want to follow up on comments made by the Chair of the Committee regarding the severity of the misconduct that we are talking about, particularly in amendment Nos 68 and 69. Amendment No 68 is lengthy, and sets out conditions at (3A), (3B) and (3C).”
“As I said, why should someone who resigns or retires, intentionally or unintentionally, while under investigation go on to be an officer in any other police force or work in law enforcement in Northern Ireland? When I brought the case of Katie Simpson into the public domain and to the Policing Board, along with other issues that concern cases that cannot be mentioned publicly, officers resigned or retired, some within a matter of months, and sometimes within weeks. I am not saying that there was intention behind that, but it should not be acceptable. There need to be repercussions for everyone, no matter their role. <BR /> <BR />I welcome the Minister saying that there will be further work on the reciprocal arrangements between Great Britain and Northern Ireland on sharing the barred list to prevent re-employment.”
“The Minister said that individuals would remain on the list indefinitely unless they won an appeal against their dismissal or made a successful review application, when they would have to provide clear evidence of why they were now suitable to rejoin the police. It is important to have that option for people but also to emphasise that the system needs to be appropriate. It needs to be accepted that if a person is going to be a serving police officer, not only in this force, there should be a reflection on past proceedings. <BR /> <BR />I welcome the Minister's comments about the policy intent of the amendments, including that the advisory list will hold details of individuals who retire or resign while they are the subject of a disciplinary investigation.”
“We cannot stop them from doing so — that is a discussion for another day — but we must allow the professional standards department and PONI to continue those proceedings. <BR /> <BR />I want to address the detail of the individual amendments. I said that I welcome the amendments from the Minister on the barred list and advisory list. Why should an officer, who is subject to a case of serious misconduct, be able to retire or resign and then go elsewhere to be employed within the UK or the Republic of Ireland? That should not happen, especially if that officer more than likely was going to be dismissed from the PSNI here. Currently, the police can file an intelligence report for future vetting when an officer leaves under a cloud. There is no barred list, so nothing prevents re-employment.”
“However, flash forward to today, and you see that the PSNI has moved on. <BR /> <BR />The Melia review acknowledged and set out in black and white many of the things that I have been saying for years, and for which I was condemned by Members and members of the public: the PSNI needed to wake up. No matter who you are or what rank you hold, you ought to be held accountable. The PSNI has finally realised that it needs to change and move on. I welcome the comments by the Deputy Chief Constable and the Chief Constable that they agree that misconduct proceedings need to change. They need to speed up and ensure that people cannot evade disciplinary proceedings by retiring or resigning.”
“However, it must be highlighted that, when the PSNI needs to be held to account, it should be. In this instance, when it came to public representatives, along with many members of the public, bringing forward issues, there was an unwillingness to deal with the issues arising from Katie Simpson's murder. <BR /> <BR />That was back in June 2024. How many of the officers who were under investigation have resigned or retired? The answer is five; two of whom were of a senior rank. Of all the officers who were involved in the case, not many more were being investigated. In the three years from PONI first opened the case — it took a long time to complete it and bring forward misconduct proceedings — five had resigned or retired. In the end, it did not matter. They were no longer needed.”
“I do not know why it was not acted on at that time, but most of the officers who were involved were still employed by the PSNI. Then Jonathan Creswell took his own life and evaded justice. I could then speak out publicly about the case. I could not do so previously because I did not want to jeopardise the case. <BR /> <BR />Despite numerous — I mean numerous — attempts in private meetings at the Northern Ireland Policing Board, at committees and in meetings with the then Deputy Chief Constable, the new Chief Constable, the former Chief Constable and representatives from the professional standards department, there was an unwillingness to deal with the issue. I say that as someone who stood this morning in defence of the PSNI, in recognition that it does a brave job.”
“Back in January 2023, I first brought to the attention of the then Chief Constable the people who had come to me, internally and externally, about the case and the handling of the murder of Katie Simpson. In January 2023 — the date is very important — I went back to the Chief Constable, who, rightly, referred me to the Police Ombudsman. I went to the Police Ombudsman, and I asked every other person who had been in contact with me to do the same. The Police Ombudsman had already opened a case back in 2020; the case had been opened almost three years to the day before I returned to the Chief Constable. However, a year later, the Creswell case had gone to trial, and it was clear that, by that stage, the PSNI's professional standards department and the Deputy Chief Constable had in their hands the PONI report into the investigation.”
“When I wrote to the Justice Minister, I was delighted with the positive response that the Department was going to table an amendment. It is better that it comes from the Department of Justice so that it can be strengthened and made as strong as it possibly can be. I also recognise that, in her speech, the Minister outlined that there would be further regulations on the issue, reflective of those in England and Wales. <BR /> <BR />I cannot begin to discuss the detail of all the amendments without touching on the case that reignited public outrage at the current ability of PSNI officers to resign or retire whilst under a misconduct investigation: the case of Katie Simpson. That is important and relevant to the amendments that are before us. First, it is about time — time enabling evasion of misconduct proceedings.”
“Some might see that as an insignificant number because the PSNI is a large police force. It may be a very small number, but the police are there to protect the public. They are the first responders to the scene of a crime, scenes of serious incidents and, along with other first responders, natural disasters, and it is important that the public have confidence in them to carry out their role. It is also important that they are held to the standard that is expected of a public servant in a position of responsibility and power, especially considering the use-of-force powers that they have. Therefore, I do not make any apology for ensuring that my voice and other voices are heard when it comes to the accountability and scrutiny of the PSNI on that aspect. <BR /> <BR />I have long campaigned for the issue to be fixed.”
“He has the will to expedite such hearings to ensure that the process does not drag on. <BR /> <BR />A number of years ago, a rather serious internal issue for the PSNI came to the public's attention. Officers had been suspended for some time for sharing obscene images from scenes of sudden deaths. That reignited the debate around misconduct proceedings, because those officers were suspended for some time. I know that they have been dealt with and that was not a new issue at the time. I respect the fact that there were people on the Policing Board from before my time who had been working on those issues, but there was then an opportunity to highlight the issue again. In 2021 and 2022, 10 officers resigned or retired whilst under investigation for misconduct, but, by 2026, 66 officers had resigned or retired whilst under investigation.”
“<BR /> <BR />Although the majority of the comments that I make today will be about the most serious misconduct issues, it is important to highlight the fact that the Police Ombudsman and the police already have many powers. For officers under investigation, there are two possible duty adjustments, which are that they can be suspended or repositioned. There are also the options of a final written warning, a written warning, management advice and no further action, as well as the more serious options of dismissal without notice, reduction in rank and dismissal with notice. It is important to state that those options are used. Within the past few months, the Chief Constable has acknowledged at the Policing Board that he has taken on more special case hearings than previous Chief Constables did.”
“My understanding from information that we have received at the board is that the PSD has put further resource and manpower into being able to carry out investigations more quickly. Currently, however, any officer under investigation can resign or retire, which takes the matter of misconduct proceedings completely off the table. Misconduct proceedings cannot be taken against anyone who has left the police. Nothing then prevents them from being employed by the other police force on this island, by a police force in another jurisdiction or, indeed, by a public service. It must also be said that, even where misconduct proceedings are finalised and a person still employed by the PSNI is found guilty of misconduct, we do not have a barred list or an advisory list. The amendments from the Minister are therefore welcome.”
“For anyone who is not aware, the anti-corruption unit in the professional standards department can initiate investigations of current serving officers. When those investigations conclude, the ACU has many tools at its disposal, including considering repositioning, line management issues, suspension and, following special case hearings, even dismissal. <BR /> <BR />As we all know, however, the police have found themselves in circumstances in the past — this is also the case for the entirety of the criminal justice system — in which they have not been resourced enough. The professional standards department, which is the appropriate authority, has stated many times to the Policing Board's performance committee that it is not resourced enough to carry out investigations as quickly as it would like to.”
“Before I go into any more detail, and before any comments are made about the intent behind those amendments, it is really important that I acknowledge, as many Members do, that the PSNI is well respected and carries out an extraordinary public safety role. Its officers keep our communities safe while acting within the rule of law and adhering to its code of ethics. Public confidence is therefore needed. <BR /> <BR />I became a member of the Policing Board in 2022. There were many occasions before then on which issues to do with professional misconduct had come to my attention, but being a member of the Policing Board has given me a greater insight into police dealings when it comes to such things. There are gaps in processes, and those gaps must be closed.”
“Amendment Nos 68 and 69 will stop officers evading accountability by resigning or retiring. Amendment No 127 will create a new schedule containing a barred list, to which any officers who have been dismissed can be added. They can also be added to the advisory list while under investigation. Amendment Nos 76 and 77 would give the Police Ombudsman a fast-track power to act on clear, incontrovertible evidence of gross misconduct rather than have to wait years for an investigation or a criminal trial to conclude.”
“I do not think that I have to, but, just in case, I declare that I am a member of the Policing Board. <BR /> <BR />I will speak to all the amendments in group 4, which, from my perspective, close a single gap from opposite ends when it comes to police accountability, whether that is through the PSD or the Police Ombudsman.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. In my speech, I was going to say that I am willing to work with the Minister and the Department to see whether the amendments need to be strengthened in any way, because I am conscious that they are amendments to primary legislation, not a Bill in its entirety. I am content with that, and, if the Minister is content, I will work with her and the Committee.”
“It is right that there is due process and that people are allowed to have that hearing and representation as well. I hope that that helps to provide further clarity.”
“The intention behind the amendment, particularly about the early report, where there is incontrovertible evidence, is that that report goes to the appropriate authority. The appropriate authority then sends special case hearings to the Chief Constable. As I understand it, some of those are taking place this week, as I speak. Basically, the amendment enables the same process as takes place in the PSNI, when it has been either the anti-corruption unit (ACU) or professional standards department (PSD) that has carried out the investigation. However, you are correct in saying that there is no obligation on the PSNI to accept the recommendations from the Police Ombudsman for Northern Ireland (PONI). We saw that in the Katie Simpson case, where the PSNI has not accepted recommendations.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. It is really important to note that the misconduct proceedings and the way in which they can be handled are in the PSNI's code of ethics and service instructions. At the Policing Board, we often hear about what amounts to gross misconduct. Amendment No 68 states that it must amount to what would, in effect, have brought about a dismissal. Cases in the past few weeks, in which the Chief Constable has dismissed officers, shed some light on what gross misconduct is.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Your colleague made remarks with which we all absolutely agree, which is that the Police Service does a difficult job, as last night showed. One of the reasons that the police have come out in support of the amendments is that, when people hold such positions of responsibility and power in the community, it is so important that the public have confidence in them. The police have welcomed the ability to look into issues even after a person has resigned. Some officers even resign during misconduct proceedings. Does the Member not agree that, because of comments from the police, further weight should be attached to the amendments?”
“It is important that we do that to allow the police to do their job and to ensure that that man is brought to justice and feels the full weight of the law.”
“It has no place in public, and it has no place even behind closed doors. It is not what we know of north Belfast. It is not what we need to see. It has left the community feeling anxious about where we go from here, but today is not a day for politics; it is a day for being calm, for allowing the police to do their job and carry out their investigation and for the public to come forward with any information that they may have. <BR /> <BR />I urge everyone, not just those in the Chamber but the wider public, to ensure that tensions are not raised, that there is no violence on our streets and that we ensure that our community in north Belfast and Northern Ireland remains calm in the days ahead.”
“Last night's horrific attack in north Belfast should be condemned by all, and I join everyone in the Chamber in condemning the brutal attack that everyone could see in the hours that followed. <BR /> <BR />One thing that made it even more barbaric is the fact that it was caught on camera. I urge people not to watch the video and to allow the police to do their job. It is not something that anyone, especially young children, needs to see, and I am aware that the video has been circulating already. <BR /> <BR />What is most important this morning is that everyone's thoughts are with the victim. We understand that he is in a critical condition, and we hope that he will fully recover. We thank the brave people who attempted to step in and stop the brutal attack. <BR /> <BR />Such violence has no place on our streets.”
“I thank the Minister for her answer. The £15 million investment in that area is much welcomed. The Alliance Party has met NI Water, the Department for Infrastructure and the council a number of times over the past few years on the issue. It is great to hear that it will be completed on time by October. Do any other steps need to be taken to ensure that that pollution is stopped permanently so that we do not have another Lough Neagh situation in the heart of Belfast lough?”
“It is time that we all stood together, dialled down the rhetoric and understood that Northern Ireland can thrive as an open, welcoming and inclusive place for everyone.”
“It is particularly depressing to see such incidents happening in my constituency of North Belfast. Whether it is in the form of an arson attack, a racist mural, a poster or threatening graffiti that targets minority groups and anyone who seen to be providing support to those communities, absolutely every person — not only in the Chamber but in society — has a role to play in calling out that hate rhetoric and standing with the ethnic minority members of our society. <BR /> <BR />Over recent summers, we have seen growing racial tensions on the streets of Belfast and Ballymena. We have seen that tension erupt into trouble on the streets and people being driven from their homes. People are fearful for their lives, livelihoods and families.”
“Let us be honest: it does not start with the burning down of homes or businesses. It starts with disdain through looks, slurs, turning a blind eye, signs of "Not welcome" and "Locals only" and claims of "legitimate concerns".”
“Indeed, the gentleman himself said that he heard people jeering and cheering as they noticed that the shop business was on fire. Those responsible for the attack certainly have no regard for his life or for any human life or property, and they must face the full consequences of their actions. <BR /> <BR />Like many others in the Chamber, I share the concerns and fears of the Indian community and other minority ethnic communities across Northern Ireland that the attack is just the latest in a string of racially motivated hate incidents. They fear for their lives.”
“Another racist attack in our community in Northern Ireland and, this time, a premises completely and utterly gutted. It was supposed to be a grocery store to bring investment into the area, create jobs and bring integration in the Shankill Road area. As many have said, the store was set up by a man who was originally from India. I reckon, and many others will agree, that it would not matter had Northern Ireland been his home for 18 years or 18 minutes; that was of little value to the people who carried out the attack. <BR /> <BR />The attack did not happen in a vacuum. It happened after social media commentary about the shop, with agitators attempting to whip up tensions by creating a racist narrative around its future opening. We saw that commentary continue after the attack.”
“Of course, training is important even before diagnosis, but there is currently an issue around that. I wrote to you, Minister, regarding GPs' concern about referrals to psychiatry, including those relating to possible dementia, and how a lot of those are bouncing back because there is no workforce capacity there. Do you have an update on where we are with the psychiatry workforce, including reassurance for anyone who may need a dementia diagnosis?”
“Minister, the announcement refers to £29·2 million for the Department of Health for 'Together for Families' and an additional £30 million from the National Lottery community fund. However, quite often, when budgets are stretched, it is the community and voluntary sector non-statutory funding that is cut first. Will you speak a little more about that new partnership, and what it will do to stabilise a sector that provides a lot of the early intervention work, or have those issues not been explored in detail with the Health Minister?”
“We need to allow the office, particularly the new chief executive, the space to investigate all cases that are referred and all complaints that are made to it. It is important that we give the office space and time to reflect on yesterday's judgement. We need to properly deal with our past so that, a decade from today, we are not still litigating the same issues over and over again.”
“Yesterday was another sad indictment of how we fail to deal with our past in Northern Ireland. We litigate issues over and over again but fail to bring justice for many of our victims and survivors. Yesterday's judgement was not about whether collusion existed during the Troubles: if you believe that it did not, you need a reality check. It was about not being able or allowed to make sweeping statements on every officer who served in the RUC. It is perfectly acceptable and right to say that the ombudsman's office must act within its powers, and we have to be clear on that. I am sure that the ombudsman's office will — it should — reflect on yesterday's judgement. <BR /> <BR />I also want to be clear that yesterday's judgement should not detract from the current procedures and investigations that are under way by the ombudsman's team.”
“does the Minister accept that the issue is essentially being "swept under the mat", to quote one woman from Ladies with Letters, which has campaigned for accountability? Given that Frank Atherton also said that he did not engage with anyone involved at the time on the ground, how does the report stand up to scrutiny?”
“I thank the Minister for coming to the Chamber today. Minister, 17,000 women had their tests rechecked. Eight developed cancer, and two women — Lynsey Courtney and Erin Harbinson — died. Given that, in his report, Frank Atherton said:”
“Thank you, Minister, for your answer. You will be aware that the equestrian industry runs across the North and South of Ireland. Indeed, Katie's killer absconded to the Republic of Ireland and was still able to carry out his work there. Can you speak a bit more about North/South cooperation regarding the review and its recommendations?”
“I know that some parents would want me to raise this issue, because they often ask MLAs about it. One reason that children are in longer-term residential care is the failure of respite care. A lot of parents do not see that as a positive; they see it as a failure of the state to intervene earlier that they need more help in the long term.”
“Thank you, Minister, for that answer. It is really important that there has been progress on a number of the recommendations. One that I have previously highlighted in the Chamber relates to police misconduct. I know that the Minister is making good progress on legislative changes around that. Does she agree with allowing the Police Ombudsman to fast-track cases where there is incontrovertible evidence of criminality or gross misconduct that will result in an officer being dismissed? The Minister has spoken in the Chamber about cases that have taken years to progress.”
“Why do I always have to change to fit into a world that should make me feel welcome and included?". Those words really hit home to me. Autism support and diagnosis are important, but so — perhaps even more so — is the importance and value of the acceptance that perhaps this world needs to change to be more accepting and inclusive of everyone, no matter who they are.”
“Meanwhile, community and voluntary sector organisations such as NAS, Autism NI and Middletown Centre for Autism are picking up the pieces to provide support where the state has failed. That is not new but is nonetheless not acceptable. <BR /> <BR />We are happy to support the amendment. Post-19 support is critical to ensuring that there is a smooth transition from youth to adulthood for young people who live with autism or a learning disability. We have spoken many times about our support for Caleb's cause. <BR /> <BR />I thank the many families who have reached out to me about support or to raise issues around perceptions of autism and to share their stories. One young person said to me, "Just because my mind has its own way of working doesn't mean that it is any less important than yours.”
“I recently learned that the Northern Ireland children's hospital reached out to the Department of Health to say, "We will offer that respite support. We have the ability to do so, if you fund us". The Department's answer to that was no and that the money would go to the trusts. <BR /> <BR />What about the families, young people and adults who are living without a diagnosis or support? The system is so broken that it takes years to get a diagnosis and support, if they get it, but we all know that early intervention is key. Support should be granted if people need it, and a diagnosis should never be necessary when help is needed. Many families are turning to private care: private diagnoses and private mental health support.”
“The Minister has claimed that he knows that the families featured in that documentary are now content with the services that they receive, but that needs to be called out: all but one of the young people featured in the documentary are now in need of residential support due to not receiving the respite support that they needed, and the families are in such a dire position that the National Autistic Society has updated its campaign to say, "We are still not OK". I am in constant contact with those families, and the fact that the Minister claims that they are content with the support that they have received raises questions. Has the Minister taken his eye off the ball, having made a commitment to help those families? The families are clear, however, that it has never been about just them.”
“In the Chamber, I have often raised the issue of the insufficient and inequitable respite and short break provision across the trust areas. The announcement, in 2024, of £13·1 million recurrent funding in that area was welcome, but too many families still experience difficulties in accessing respite services. I again pay tribute to the families who took part in the 'Spotlight' documentary, 'I Am Not Okay', for taking the brave decision to show the difficulties that their families face.”
“The most common-sense way of dealing with that is for the Department of Health to step up and provide clear direction on post-diagnosis services. Ultimately, that goes to the heart of the issue. While they are left waiting for support services, children and young people have to adapt their lives just to fit in. There seems to be an attitude in Northern Ireland that we treat those with autism as if there is something wrong with them and as if it is something to be dealt with, rather than simply accepting that it is a normal aspect of life. It is attitudes such as that that have led to increasing demand for mental health support for those with autism. <BR /> <BR />The picture is no better for children and young people with the most complex needs.”