Peter Martin
North Down · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Minister, the Northern Ireland Audit Office report is very critical of your Department on the topic of flood risk. You have just read out some interventions that your Department has made. The report's most substantial criticism is that your Department cannot show that its activities to build flood risk defences:”
“It also seeks to rebalance a level of government control by removing certain powers that the Department currently holds, including direction and control over appointments to board positions. That supports the case for reclassification by ONS.”
“<BR /> <BR />Members were keen to hear directly from young people, who will probably be most affected by GDL, so we consulted the Youth Assembly. The Committee was impressed by the thoughtful and constructive nature of that engagement.”
“<BR /> <BR />I am confident that the Committee will be able to engage positively and work collaboratively with the Department to ensure that the Bill reflects the current areas where reform is required.”
“<BR /> <BR />Having considered all the evidence, the Committee ultimately concluded that it would not be appropriate to proceed until it was fully satisfied that the driving instructor sector believed that the proposed date of 1 October 2026, which the Minister referenced, was realistic and achievable.”
“With your permission, Mr Speaker, it is important to consider the proposal in the context of the wider legislative package that is required to bring GDL into operation, and the Minister referenced that. <BR /> <BR />At the outset, I make it clear that the Committee supports the principle of GDL.”
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“<BR /> <BR />In closing, following the Supreme Court ruling, I wonder whether members of Sinn Féin, Alliance and the SDLP will have gleaned the additional insight and wisdom required to answer the tough question that they have so far grappled and struggled with —”
“Very recently, my party met the Women's Rights Network Northern Ireland, and we made clear our continued commitment to stand up for women's rights in Northern Ireland. Many of the campaigners who fought for this have lost jobs, lost friends and family, been vilified as bigots and subjected to torrents of abuse; in fact, someone recently called for witch-burning to come back because they wanted to burn J K Rowling. She is not alone. The struggle for justice in this area by such women as Rosie Duffield, Sharron Davies, Helen Joyce, Susan Smith and Kathleen Stock has been vindicated by the Supreme Court ruling.”
“I further make it clear that, in my view, discrimination is wrong and always will be wrong. <BR /> <BR />Getting back to what we are discussing this afternoon, it has already been referenced that the Supreme Court identified that the terms "man", woman" and "sex" in the Equality Act do refer to biological sex, not certified or asserted. That is a victory for women's rights and for basic biological facts. Today, I want to pay tribute to some people who have brought us this far in this area and to the bravery and sacrifices that some women have shown and made. I pay tribute in particular to For Women Scotland, which took this case and took on a Government to get the case won. It was supported by a whole range of other organisations such as Sex Matters and the Women's Rights Network.”
“First, I want to turn to some comments that the leader of the Opposition made before the business was suspended for Question Time. He said that it was "dehumanising" in some way to trans individuals. I take issue with that. In fact, all that I have heard from this side is that single-sex spaces need to be protected and that biological males should not be using female toilets. Those are not controversial statements. In fact, the Supreme Court referenced some of those on the way through. It is also clear from listening to some of the other Members who have spoken so far that they think that, somehow, trans rights have evaporated. That is simply not the case and is a straw man argument. In fact, trans individuals are still protected under a whole range of equality legislation, including the Equality Act.”
“What Rory has achieved for this country and golf and the inspiration that he is to young people and golfers is absolutely astounding. We look forward to Portrush, later this year, and — I do not want to scupper his chances — Rory, hopefully, adding more silverware to his already significant collection.”
“We are congratulating him on achieving a career Grand Slam, but how he conducts himself off the fairway is a credit to him and his parents. If Rory is watching this, I say this to him: if you are ever in Holywood and are up for a game, I am available. We do have other courses in North Down. Holywood has been talked about a lot, but the courses at Clandeboye, Bangor and Donaghadee are all available. Twenty-five years ago, I played off 22, so if he thinks that I am a threat or that I might beat him, he should know that it is highly unlikely.”
“We are here to congratulate Rory on his recent win and, as the leader of the Opposition just pointed out, on his becoming one of only six people to have achieved a modern career Grand Slam. That is an incredible achievement. He is from my constituency, so, as the DFM mentioned, I am going to take ownership of him. <BR /> <BR />I will make some personal comments. Golf is an incredibly tough and unforgiving sport. I am a golfer, having played since I was very small. My grandfather taught me how to play golf. He was a Brethren preacher, and my mother tells a story of how in her entire life she never heard her father, John, say a naughty word, apart from when he was on Clandeboye golf course. It is a really tough sport, and Rory has done exceptionally well. He is an inspiration for young golfers from Northern Ireland.”
“<BR /> <BR />My two requests to the Health Minister today come from people who know the challenge at first hand: to provide immediate access to short breaks and residential care for families who are currently in crisis in Northern Ireland and to provide the resources needed for the commissioning of services to support autistic people with high support needs and their families, such as short breaks and residential placements. <BR /> <BR />I do not think that anyone in the Chamber will even get close to representing the true feelings of families who are affected by the lack of service provision. The reason for that is that we cannot empathise because none of us is walking in their shoes, but we can ask questions, we can scrutinise and we can demand answers.”
“I imagine that the lack of respite care, which is what we are talking about today, must have a significant impact on those children's parents. I am sure that it, in turn, leads to some of them experiencing burnout. I also imagine that it puts significant pressure on their relationships. In October 2024, the Minister allocated a welcome £13 million of additional funding for that specific area. Today, we need to know how that money will be spent, what direct impact it will have and when.”
“It appears to me that three distinct areas require improvement. There may well be others. There are probably many Members in the Chamber who are more across the issue than I am. The first area is capacity. We know that, pre-COVID-19, levels of provision and support were far from ideal. Post-pandemic, however, they are really poor. Legitimate questions need to be answered. The second area is staffing. Again, there are differentials between pre-pandemic and post-pandemic levels. The final area is consistency of service provision. It appears to me that each health and social care trust operates its own resource panels, which leads to trusts dealing with cases in slightly different ways. <BR /> <BR />It also appears that family support services are limited for children with very complex needs.”
“I thank the Member for Lagan Valley for securing the debate. Like her, I am not on the Health Committee, but, like many others, I watched the incredible and very moving 'Spotlight' documentary 'I Am Not Okay', which explored the experiences of four families caring for children with autism and detailed some of the crises in Northern Ireland's health and care services. <BR /> <BR />In conducting some research for the debate, I came across a petition from the National Autistic Society (NAS), which states:”
“I will be short. That money could be used more effectively elsewhere.”
“<BR /> <BR />I reflect to the Member that his Minister rightfully comes to the Chamber and often talks about a lack of funding —”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Given the number of interventions, he is certainly very popular, and I appreciate this opportunity to make a couple of points. We have talked about wildfires, but as far as I understand it, those were set deliberately, and there is an investigation into that. On the wider point, though, it is this place's responsibility to make good decisions. The Member has highlighted that in this debate, but we are talking about £1 million here. My party's point is that agencies are already in place to do that work. It is not about climate change: we all agree that action needs to be taken, but there are agencies in place to do that, and £1 million could be invested in school counselling or in Health for core grant funding in the community.”
“My ask today is that the Minister at least consider a reversal and an uplift in funding to the original amount, which, I believe, was £3·6 million.”
“We also know that those organisations are operating in really difficult fiscal circumstances. Again, three-year Budgets in the Assembly, and therefore in Departments, would be incredibly helpful in offsetting that. <BR /> <BR />The Minister should work towards a level of sustainability in the voluntary and community sector to ensure that the people who work in it, delivering first-class interventions for some of Northern Ireland's most vulnerable citizens, feel completely supported.”
“I do not underestimate the difficult job that the Minister has. There are a lot of demands on the Department of Health and its funding. I imagine that the Health Minister has already instructed his permanent secretary to look down the back of the Health sofa to see whether there is anything that he can get his hands on. Maybe he will tell us whether he has done that when he responds to the debate. <BR /> <BR />Members have highlighted the Minister's shift-left agenda, with which I completely agree. However, if we displace from the third sector some of the support and interventions that we are talking about, very often people end up in more acute settings. The more acute the setting, the more expensive the intervention. We know that funding for the sectoral bodies allows them to support thousands of people who receive their services.”
“Three or four weeks ago, I was standing here highlighting the amazing work of the Samaritans. Previous to this round of funding, they got a very modest grant of about £10,000, but even that was significant for them. Celine McStravick, the chief executive of NICVA, has been mentioned in the debate. She said that the cut in funding:”
“I am not a member of the Health Committee, but I am passionate about some of the groups that have lost funding, and I am more than aware of the amazing work that they do. Recently, I, along with my colleague behind me, Diane Dodds, facilitated a meeting with a number of groups that have lost funding. At that meeting, they highlighted the tangible impact of that loss of funding. Let me be clear: I am not calling for the scheme to be run again, or for money to be taken off any successful groups. Rather, I want to highlight the work that the community and voluntary sector does in Northern Ireland to deliver first-class services and how it fills the gaps that, sometimes, public services do not reach. <BR /> <BR />Members have already highlighted a number of organisations. We all work with different organisations.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I congratulate the Member for Strangford for making me doubt myself about the length of the Integrated Education Bill's Committee Stage. However, I have it in front of me and can confirm that the Committee Stage for the Integrated Education Bill ran from 6 July 2021 to 24 November 2021. At that time, it made its Committee report. I can confirm that, similarly, it ran over the summer. Does the Chair — sorry, the Member — agree that there is some similarity between the two, with the exception that the amendment that we have suggested is actually for seven weeks longer than the scrutiny for the Integrated Education Bill?”
“Yes, the Bill may need to receive full priority over the next number of months, and the forward work programme may need some rejigging, but we are up for the challenge. The DUP absolutely believes that getting the Bill across the line is pivotal to supporting hard-working families in Northern Ireland. I commend our amendment to the House.”
“It would be silly of them to do that. I accept that, with those time frames, it will certainly be tight. There are few certainties in life. However, if Members support the amendment, I feel that the Bill has a good chance — or, at least, a chance — to be enacted in 2026. It would be marvellous for parents if we could get it passed. <BR /> <BR />Let me be crystal clear: scrutiny is crucial in the Chamber and in Committee. That is an integral part of what we do. Agreeing to my party's tabled amendment will still leave the Committee time to do its job. Yes, we may need to have additional Committee sessions. My party is certainly up for that work. The schedule might need to be changed.”
“I thank the Member for her question. I am not on a board of governors, but I think that I understand what she is saying. Certainly, if the Bill progresses in that time frame, as the Committee Chair mentioned, it might not get Royal Assent until after the things that the Member is talking about actually have to come into effect. However, if the Bill has been passed by the Assembly and is to become legislation, even if it has not got Royal Assent — we know that Bills that are passed by the Assembly always get Royal Assent — schools will know that that — I will not call it "policy intent" — legislative intent is coming into being. I accept that, as the Committee Chair said, some schools may just choose to ignore it, and maybe, at that point, they could do so, but, if there are any that do so, it will be a very small number.”
“It will be up to the Assembly to prioritise the scheduling of that, and that will be out of our hands, but it will at least give us that realistic opportunity to see some benefit for parents in 2026. Certainly, the feedback that I have received is that, if we leave the motion as it is, we will not see the benefits — parents will not see the benefits — until 2027.”
“<BR /> <BR />I will get back to my speech. Getting the Bill through the Chamber and Committee in a timely manner would be a win-win situation. If others decide not to support our amendment, as has already been noted, it is up to them to explain that. We have had some chat about that, even in the Chamber this afternoon. <BR /> <BR />I am one of the parents who has kids at school and who wants to see the Bill progress. It is certainly my understanding — the Committee Chair mentioned it as well — that, if we can manage to get the Bill through Committee Stage by the end of August, which reflects our amendment and is a compromise between what the Minister initially suggested and what the Committee wants to see, there remains a chance — an open door — to complete the fourth and fifth stages during September 2025.”
“I always appreciate the comments of the Chair of the Education Committee. I cannot disagree with him. We are in a different place with regard to the mandate, and I think that there was a sense of urgency with the Integrated Education Bill. However, I again gently point out that we will receive no thanks if we do not manage to get this through. Many families are facing bills, and, for many of them, this is a large cost. I think that a Member opposite made the point in a recent debate — it was a good one — that in no way should the cost of school uniforms ever dictate which school a child ends up in. If a child wants to go to a certain school and has whatever he or she needs to get into that school, surely the last barrier that he or she should face is a large uniform bill that would somehow prohibit him or her from getting there.”
“I thank the Member for her comments. I will not claim authority on that; she probably should have authority on that. I did go to the Bill process and looked up the dates, and I got out my calculator. I did notice, however, that summer recess was in that period. It ran over that, and therefore this Bill has similarities in that the Integrated Education Bill's Committee Stage — the 18 weeks that I am referring to — did run through the summer recess, but I am happy to be corrected on that. This Bill is a similar length to the one that I have just discussed. This Bill is probably less complex than the Integrated Education Bill — Members can disagree, but I suffered it as well — and is certainly less contentious.”
“I agree with her completely, about the issue itself and about the wider issue that equality is important. The last piece of legislation to come before the Committee for Education for scrutiny was the Integrated Education Bill, as my colleague behind me pointed out. That was brought as a private Member's Bill by a colleague of Mrs Guy's. On that occasion, the Education Committee took 18 weeks at Committee Stage. It should also be noticed that during that —”
“Just this morning, I think that it was Sam's jumper that I put in the dryer, and it shrank to a size that no man could fit into, so that might be one more burden to bear, as I tumble-dried something that should not have been tumble-dried. <BR /> <BR />We all accept that change is required in this area. I think that there is agreement in the Chamber that the Bill is non-contentious and that the benefits that it brings will be felt by all families, regardless of their religious background or political affiliation. It does not seek to advantage anyone. I find that exciting, and I hope that everyone agrees with that. <BR /> <BR />In the Second Stage debate, the Alliance Member for Lagan Valley, Mrs Guy, said:”
“Our amendment does not seek to limit scrutiny of the Bill by any stretch of the imagination. We are instead saying that this piece of legislation needs to get Committee priority. We all work in Committees, and we all know how they function. We are not saying that we should not scrutinise or pay due attention or due regard to the issues that are obviously very important to people in Northern Ireland. Instead, we are saying that the legislation should be prioritised and, to a degree, carry that weight, especially over the next few months. There are families in Northern Ireland right now counting every penny, and the Bill should significantly reduce at least one cost that they have to face on a year-to-year basis.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Department received 7,500 responses to its consultation. That is a staggering number for a government consultation. What really stuck out to me was the fact that 4,000 of those were received from children and young people in Northern Ireland. That illustrates the strength of feeling out there where the proverbial rubber hits the road. There were lots of views on some of the issues that the Committee Chair highlighted, such as the cost of uniforms, especially the cost of school sportswear, and the types of uniforms that we see in our schools. That further illustrates the need for this place to take the issue seriously and to prioritise the legislation. <BR /> <BR />I will pick up on one other theme that the Committee Chair mentioned.”
“I thank the Committee Chair for his intervention. I can go only by the calendar weeks. I accept the point that he makes about Easter recess and summer recess, and I will address those comments a little bit later. I accept his point. The 38-week period is, however, the calendar period. <BR /> <BR />Following the close of the Department's consultation last year, the Minister managed to get the prospective legislation drafted by, I assume, the Office of the Legislative Counsel (OLC) and tabled in the Assembly within 20 weeks. I pay tribute to the Minister for the enthusiasm and vigour that he has brought to his role, not least in this area. I also note the excellent work that was carried out on the policy area by departmental officials Shirley Sweeney and Margaret Rose McNaughton.”
“For the parents who are perhaps watching the debate this afternoon or those stakeholders who contributed to the Department's consultation last year, such as the Trussell Trust, Parentkind, Children in Northern Ireland (CiNI), the Children's Law Centre (CLC) and Carers NI — there were about 18, but I will pick those five — you heard that right: we are considering a Committee Stage of 38 weeks. I fully accept that, during the Committee's consideration, the Chair made it clear that 38 weeks was not the target date for completion and that we were not aiming towards that. However, if the Committee motion is agreed, the Committee can, if it so wishes, debate and consult on the Bill until 3 December. <BR /> <BR />Following the close of the Department's consultation last year —.”
“I do not plan to go into the same detail as the Committee Chair, because we are not here to debate the Bill. However, we are here to debate how long the Committee should take to do its work. If the motion that the Committee Chair proposed is agreed, it could see the Education Committee debate the Bill for a possible 38 weeks, and that will have clear consequences for the families that the legislation undoubtedly seeks to support. <BR /> <BR />As the Minister mentioned this afternoon in the Chamber, the Bill is a DUP manifesto commitment. We have been clear about that. We want to make sure that its benefits are realised for all people in Northern Ireland, regardless of creed, colour, faith or background.”
“We have heard the SDLP Opposition call for Ministers to bring forward more legislation. Before us this afternoon is a Bill, which was introduced by, as referenced, a DUP Education Minister, that meets all those criteria.”
“I appreciate that that could be problematic, but, if we could find full days — a couple of full days — it would probably be doable, and it would certainly be helpful in giving the Bill the due regard that it needs at Committee level. I will make other comments along the way. <BR /> <BR />We have heard repeatedly in the Chamber of the need to support hard-working families, and we have rightly heard many call for a reform of school uniform and sportswear costs.”
“It was fairly clear to the Education Committee members who were there where everyone stood, and I hope that other Committee members will know where David and I stood on the 38-week extension. <BR /> <BR />The Committee Chair and I had a congenial debate on a BBC radio programme this morning. We mentioned scrutiny and the fact that we think that it is important, and I committed myself and my colleague, who is sitting behind me, to coming in during summer recess at some point and giving additional time to scrutinising the Bill, because there is no doubt — no one in the Chamber will argue otherwise — that scrutiny is crucial. We are committed to doing that; there is no doubt there.”
“Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. I thank the Committee Chair for the considered comments that he made. I will address a couple of those before making other comments. The date that he mentioned was 30 August, and he referenced the date that the Minister had previously suggested. We see the amendment as a compromise that gives scope to allow for the scrutiny role, which, as he said — I agree with him — is so important. He mentioned dividing the Committee. I appreciate that some of his comments were probably not levelled at me and my colleague, as we raised concerns in Committee about the length of the proposed Committee Stage. We did not divide the Committee, but I will point out that I have divided the Committee on three occasions and lost three times.”
“I want to see action from the Minister — I am sure that she wants to see action herself — and a plan of what she can do to ensure that my constituency receives a fair and reasonable allocation of roads funding, so that the standards of our roads and footpaths do not fall even further behind those in other council areas.”
“<BR /> <BR />I could go on. Apparently, I have an entire four minutes to go, but you will all be glad to know that I am not going to fill them. I ask the Minister at least to review personally the areas that I mentioned and, at an appropriate time, to come back to me with answers as to whether something can be done and when it can be done. <BR /> <BR />The current capital provision that I outlined does not meet an equality standard, and it certainly does not go as far as the demands of equity. That is to say that North Down, I believe, is being short-changed in comparison with other council areas in Northern Ireland, and that must be addressed.”
“<BR /> <BR />The High Bangor Road, which connects Bangor and Donaghadee, colloquially has the sobriquet "Pothole Central", and it needs urgent attention. Onslow Gardens' pavements are a trip hazard, and there are many elderly residents in that area. Albany Road is literally disintegrating as we speak, and a track runs all the way down the middle of it. The pavements on the lower half of Clandeboye Road and on Church Street are in an appalling state of disrepair. Finally, the footpaths in Killeen Drive and Belmont Crescent have broken slabs, trip hazards and, again, are in a dreadful state. Maybe we notice and step over those broken pavements and the trip hazards that they present, but, for elderly folk in particular, they are really dangerous; a fall, if you are elderly, can be debilitating. That is why I would love to see action on them.”
“I want to see all roads in North Down being safe to cross, and I do not want to see people losing their life in road accidents because of road safety mistakes. <BR /> <BR />Roads engineers and the people whom we, as MLAs, deal with day-to-day are really good. I am sure that my colleagues in the Chamber for the debate would agree that we have a really good working relationship with all of them. They are doing their level best with the resources that are provided to them. <BR /> <BR />I am going to highlight five specific areas, and I ask the Minister to get back to me on each of them at some point, if she can. I do not expect her to know every road in North Down or necessarily to have answers on these today, but, if she can get back to me at some point, I would very much appreciate it.”
“The Department's response, as far as I am aware — I am happy to be corrected — is that it has resurfaced one footpath in the past year. <BR /> <BR />I have been pushing for the installation of a much-needed pedestrian crossing on the four-lane Bangor ring road. That would allow pupils from St Columbanus' College, a post-primary maintained school, and local residents to cross that busy carriageway safely. The scheme continues to be delayed, and it has been pushed into a future financial year. I have engaged with a number of constituents who are blind, and we highlighted the issue in the press recently. They have been campaigning to get that crossing. However, they now have another year of crossing that road, which is extremely dangerous for people who are sighted and even more dangerous for people who are visually impaired.”
“That last line is concerning, and I believe that the Department is, to a degree, closing ranks. It seems not to want that looked into any further, which is unfair. <BR /> <BR />The lack of roads maintenance is not just frustrating; it can weaken inward investment. Balloo Avenue in Bangor, which is home to a significant number of businesses and an industrial complex, is in a really poor state. What message does that send to investors who may want to locate in the area? <BR /> <BR />My constituency office has received numerous reports of constituents falling over paving stones that are a trip hazard and injuring themselves. Ultimately, the Department has had to pay out insurance claims in some of those cases.”
“So, that not a factor either. <BR /> <BR />We then pressed the Department further, and it said:”
“On the roads network, I compared Ards and North Down Borough Council with a council of a similar size. It is quite similar to Lisburn and Castlereagh City Council, which has received an allocation of £22·3 million in the past three years. You would expect Ards and North Down Borough Council to get about 85% of that, which would be £18·9 million. We received £13·9 million, so that cannot be the formula that DFI is using. In fact, Ards and North Down Borough Council has the fourth largest council area by population, so that is not a factor either. <BR /> <BR />The figures in the response to an Assembly question show that, in the past year, Ards and North Down Borough Council recorded 1,816 actionable defects compared with 516 in the Derry City and Strabane District Council area, which received nearly four times the funding.”
“What reason does the Department give for why we are so far behind other council areas in roads funding? That question, to a degree, remains unanswered, and I hope that the Minister will address it in her comments. However, in response to a question from Ards and North Down Borough Council, DFI said:”
“You could perhaps make the argument that that variation in capital funding is then offset by resource. However, it is not. Ards and North Down Borough Council is also bottom of the table for resource funding in two of the past three years. Only one council got less, so, excitingly, for one year, Ards and North Down Borough Council was one from the bottom.”
“Ards and North Down Borough Council got just £3 million, which is a quarter of the average. The next lowest — Lisburn and Castlereagh City Council — was allocated £7·5 million, which is two and a half times what Ards and North Down Borough Council received. We often hear about how the west of the Bann is the forgotten country, but Mid Ulster District Council received £21 million, while Derry and Strabane District Council got £11·4 million, which, despite being a smaller geographical area, is nearly four times what Ards and North Down Borough Council received.”
“<BR /> <BR />My DUP colleague Michelle McIlveen, in a question for written answer, asked the previous Minister, John O'Dowd, to provide a breakdown of the budget allocated for road maintenance in each of the past three years. The response from DFI detailed the total structural maintenance costs, including resource and capital. In the 2023-24 financial year, the total budget for structural maintenance in Northern Ireland was £127·4 million. There are 11 council areas in Northern Ireland, so a quick back-of-the-matchbox calculation means that, on average, council areas should get around £11·5 million. You would expect some areas to get more or less, depending on the size of their road network, but the scale of the disparity is what is most telling. <BR /> <BR />I will work off that base figure of £11·5 million.”