Peter Martin
North Down · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Minister, the Northern Ireland Audit Office report is very critical of your Department on the topic of flood risk. You have just read out some interventions that your Department has made. The report's most substantial criticism is that your Department cannot show that its activities to build flood risk defences:”
“It also seeks to rebalance a level of government control by removing certain powers that the Department currently holds, including direction and control over appointments to board positions. That supports the case for reclassification by ONS.”
“<BR /> <BR />Members were keen to hear directly from young people, who will probably be most affected by GDL, so we consulted the Youth Assembly. The Committee was impressed by the thoughtful and constructive nature of that engagement.”
“<BR /> <BR />I am confident that the Committee will be able to engage positively and work collaboratively with the Department to ensure that the Bill reflects the current areas where reform is required.”
“<BR /> <BR />Having considered all the evidence, the Committee ultimately concluded that it would not be appropriate to proceed until it was fully satisfied that the driving instructor sector believed that the proposed date of 1 October 2026, which the Minister referenced, was realistic and achievable.”
“With your permission, Mr Speaker, it is important to consider the proposal in the context of the wider legislative package that is required to bring GDL into operation, and the Minister referenced that. <BR /> <BR />At the outset, I make it clear that the Committee supports the principle of GDL.”
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“<BR /> <BR />The thrust of the motion is sixth-formers and sixth-form colleges, which, I accept, the Member clarified. That is a little narrow and a little late, however, considering that the Department for the Economy already provides careers guidance to students in year 10 — third form in old money — on the subjects that they should take for GCSE and on the degree, apprenticeship or career that they might embark on. We have to look at that at an earlier stage. <BR /> <BR />Our amendment seeks to address that — I will, keeping an eye on the time, quote from it — as it:”
“I thank the Member opposite for that very useful intervention. I agree with him, as, I think, everyone in the House will, that we want the best for children. We also want them to be studying in the right environment that gives the right opportunities for their career in the future. <BR /> <BR />The Department for the Economy holds a pivotal role with the careers services that it provides, and that is reflected in our amendment. For example, it hosts a careers service for 11- to 19-year-olds, including a separate section on year 10 career choices. I happen to have someone in year 10, and they are considering their options, mainly under the guidance of their mother. A careers service offering has to include Economy. I agree with the Member opposite: it is collaborative work and both Departments have a role to play.”
“To be fair, the Alliance amendment touches quite comprehensively on the point that, as we look at how careers are configured and who stays in school, who goes off to college and who goes to work, a pupil-centred approach is needed and also that, at that age range, there is a range of qualifications that pupils can study and where they go is where the best offering that can be provided is. I accept that, for some students, that is in school and that, for others, that might be at their local college. <BR /> <BR />Returning to our amendment, we cannot have a conversation about, as the motion puts it, "career pathways" without having input from the Department for the Economy. That is not referenced in the original motion, and I admit that I found that a little surprising.”
“In operative terms, that means, in the area that we are looking at today, that, for example, where there is a local college offering a level 3 extended diploma in music technology and it has a state-of-the-art suite to support that qualification, it makes little sense for a school to try to replicate that qualification within its offering. Conversely, if sixth forms are offering a wide range of A levels, as most of them do, it does not make very much sense to me for colleges to offer the same, other than picking up some students who are repeating their A levels.”
“When I read that, I was not completely clear whether those who tabled it wanted DE funding to be reduced to incentivise pupils to go to FE, whether they wanted it to be raised to place more funding into sixth forms in schools or, possibly, whether they wanted funding reconfigured out of Education and into Economy, which also holds some responsibility for careers. Equally, to be fair to them, it might just be that the motion is suggesting that the CFF be revised. <BR /> <BR />To a degree, as we look at sixth-form centres and their competitors, such as colleges around the country, the economic theory of what we call competitive advantage comes into play. That simply means that, whether you are a country, a business or an individual, you are best to focus on the things that you do best and leave others to do the things that they do best.”
“<BR /> <BR />I am sure that the Members opposite will address this in their speeches. I feel that the original motion is a little vague. The motion:”
“In effect, the mechanism distributes a quantum of money, and some of the factors that it considers are the overall enrolment and pupils' needs. <BR /> <BR />Post-primary education, which we are examining today, is made up of a whole range of factors — there are some 17 — and those are fairly detailed and complex. The CFF distributes the money that sits in what we call the aggregated schools budget. There is also — I am sure that it will be talked about today — the age-weighted pupil unit (AWPU), and that factor distributes the most significant portion of what we know as the delegated budget to schools. We also know that, in the use of that formula, a sixth-form pupil attracts more funding than a pupil in years 8 to 10. Therefore, it naturally follows that schools want to keep pupils where they can.”
“I fully welcome the debate. I thank the proposers of the motion for tabling it. As you will note, our amendment accepts over half the original motion. My colleagues will pick up on that point in their speeches. The original motion misses a key aspect that is important when we look at those areas, and that is the role of the Department for the Economy. <BR /> <BR />When I speak to some of the key aspects of our amendment, it may be worth laying out how schools are funded and the mechanisms for delivering that. The Member opposite touched on that in her speech. Grant-aided schools are funded using the common funding scheme (CFS), which is more commonly known as the common funding formula (CFF). That is the Department's mechanism for allocating school budgets across the system.”
“I thank the Minister for her answer. Will she provide an update, if she is aware of one, on the new PSNI Kinnegar training facility, and what point the process is at?”
“Minister, may I say how much I welcome the statement and the fact that delivering equality for controlled schools across the sector has been the driver? I know that many principals and boards of governors will also welcome that. Does the Minister believe that the title "controlled schools" is misunderstood, considering that some of those schools are more diverse in their community backgrounds than schools with "integrated" in their names? Does he consider that a new title for controlled schools would be appropriate?”
“I join colleagues in welcoming this statement this morning. It will be incredibly positive for a whole range of people across Northern Ireland. I will focus on domestic abuse and ask the Minister if he can give us more details about what these changes will specifically mean for survivors of domestic abuse in Northern Ireland.”
“<BR /> <BR />Thanks to the valiant efforts of FOTBOT, awareness of the issue has been raised across the United Kingdom over the past number of weeks. It was extremely encouraging to see such a strong demonstration of support for the Chagossian right to self-determination on 12 November, when FOTBOT held its call-to-action event in London. The event united over 600 Chagossians from a variety of backgrounds behind a single message: their wish for self-determination. I urge all Members to support the voice of the Chagossian people during the next few pivotal weeks, as we await the crucial position and decision of the incoming US Administration with the profound hope that that appalling deal will be discarded.”
“The shameful denial of Chagossian sovereignty was compounded by the Labour Government's announcement, during a set of fast-tracked negotiations, that they intend to cede the islands to Mauritius. It is striking that, during the entire process of those negotiations, the Chagossian people were omitted from the talks and their views were not sought. Instead, the Labour Government have attempted to subvert the incoming US Administration by offering the Mauritian Government £90 million a year for 99 years to access Diego Garcia. That is almost £9 billion of taxpayers' money, yet it currently costs nothing. The Mauritian Government, in turn, are far from being an open and tolerant Administration. For example, you can receive a jail sentence of up to 10 years if you dare to say out loud that the Chagos Islands are anything other than Mauritian.”
“Normally, in a Member's statement, I would speak about constituency issues. This morning, however, I will speak about islands some 6,000 miles away from the United Kingdom. Last year, I was invited by Queen's University Belfast to speak at a debate that was hosted by Friends of the British Overseas Territories (FOTBOT). Its role is to educate people about the British overseas territories' historical links with the UK and to foster relationships between UK politicians and politicians across the territories. FOTBOT gave me the privilege of meeting a delegation of Chagossians during their visit to Northern Ireland. I was particularly moved to hear how their families had been forcibly taken from the Chagos Islands and prevented from returning, which was an extremely painful experience.”
“I thank the Minister for that answer. He touched on workforce. GPs are one of the professions on the front line when it comes to dealing with patients before they get to emergency departments (EDs). What is the Minister's plan for increasing the number of GPs being trained in Northern Ireland? What is a possible timescale for achieving that?”
“Obviously, we know that it is not complete, and the aim is now to complete by March 2025. My hope is that the Economy Minister will deliver that as soon as possible. I am sure that he realises that it is a mission-critical element.”
“or, for that matter, pat people on the back. She listed a number of Nordic countries. I remind her that those countries have extremely high tax rates not just for wealthy families but for middle-income families. I further say to her that the Executive do not have the vires to increase tax. <BR /> <BR />The final piece of the jigsaw is a scoping exercise, as referenced by various Members, and the Minister for the Economy is tasked with carrying that out. The minutes of a meeting of the all-party group (APG) on early education and childcare in September state:”
“<BR /> <BR />Some politicians believe that change can happen with a simple click of a finger, but that is not the case. We are always best to be open and honest with people about where we are and how we are progressing. I am fully assured that the Education Minister has done all that he could with the funding that has been mentioned, and it is disingenuous, I think, for anyone to claim otherwise. <BR /> <BR />I turn to the comments from the Member for Foyle. I do not mud-sling in the Chamber”
“I counsel those who say that delivery is not fast enough or wide enough against such claims. To make this breakthrough, three key criteria are required: funding — Members mentioned that funding has already been provided; human resources; and capital. The sector gets that, but I am not sure that every politician in here understands it, so I have a very simple example. As parents, we got 12·5 hours in a local Presbyterian church hall. For that preschool to uplift to 22·5 hours, it needs those premises to be free and staff to work the extra hours. If the premises are not available and they are asked to provide additional hours, new premises must be found. Also, the staff must be willing to work the afternoon session or that extra time.”
“I thank the Member for Strangford for his question. I agree with him. This is something that we want to see moving forward, and no one would debate that. The Member made the point about the time that we are using in the Chamber and so forth and whether that has been negative. I would reflect that the Member for Foyle was, possibly, rather negative in her comments, and I will come to those later. I agree with the Member that we all want to see good progress on this measure.”
“<BR /> <BR />As has been mentioned, the Minister has initiated, to my knowledge, the single largest expansion in preschool education in the history of Stormont, resulting in an additional 2,500 children now getting full-time places. That is significant, but it is not about patting ourselves on the back; it is about recognising that progress has been made. Some people in the Chamber may perhaps not want to admit that progress has been made, but it has. The Minister has invested £7·6 million in early years programmes. We know the names of those early intervention programmes — Sure Start, Pathway and Toybox — and we hear plenty about them in the Chamber. The DUP is delivering on those programmes and supporting and expanding them.”
“Our DUP Education Minister, Paul Givan, has delivered significant progress in this area over the past 11 months, and I want to pick up on a couple of those measures. It has been mentioned that, under the Northern Ireland childcare subsidy scheme, the parents of 14,000 children are receiving a 15% reduction in their childcare bills. That is money that is going back into those parents' pockets to use for something else. It is perhaps worth touching on the individual nature of what that actually means. In my constituency, over 890 families have benefited from the scheme and have saved a quarter of a million pounds. Those are real families, living real lives, who are benefiting from something that the Minister of Education has brought in.”
“I commend the motion to the House, and, in my speech, I want to reflect on some of what has been achieved in childcare and preschool support over the past year and comment on what needs to happen in future. Before I do, I want to pick up on a point that the Member for South Down and who is on the opposite Benches made. I do not think that the debate is pointless. People out there think that this is an incredibly important issue and that it is certainly worth spending some time on. The debate is really important, and it has been respectful so far. <BR /> <BR />I am a parent who uses childcare, and we need childcare for our daily life. I want to see speedy progress on the issue. Furthermore, I recognise that there are plenty of people who are watching the debate who are reliant on childcare for some of the reasons that have been cited.”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. Minister, I am aware that you recently met Seema Malhotra, a Home Office MP and Minister for Migration and Citizenship. Was that meeting positive? Further to that, what is the best solution to the ETA issue?”
“<BR /> <BR />In conclusion, this party has been working consistently and diligently to right the wrongs caused by the damage of the imposition of these articles. As has been mentioned, we voted against the imposition of the Northern Ireland protocol at our national Parliament in Westminster and at the European Parliament. Tonight, we will vote against the motion, because it is our firm belief that it is contrary to the best interests of Northern Ireland, and we urge others to join us. I see that the AERA Minister is not in his place, but in honour of him — I am not a Spice Girls fan; I am more of a Pink Floyd guy — I perhaps suggest that some Members of the Chamber are 'Comfortably Numb' to the operation of the protocol in Northern Ireland.”
“We have talked a lot about blame in the Chamber this afternoon and this evening. The blame for that falls, in my eyes, on one person: Boris Johnson. The aftermath of his saying one thing and then doing the complete opposite finally caught up with the Conservative Party in the recent election. They seamlessly, with Johnson's help, managed to turn a very large Tory majority into the largest wipeout of the party in modern history. My colleague the Education Minister mentioned the Wirral deal, where Boris Johnson signed off much of the democratic responsibility for Northern Ireland. Ironically, that was because people did not particularly like Labour but they just could not trust the Conservative Party any more. However, as the former Prime Minister finally realised to his chagrin, those who live by the sword often die by the sword.”
“That is the last thing that we would want to see. <BR /> <BR />In Northern Ireland, since 1998, within the safeguards and equality section of the Belfast Agreement, every individual has a right to democratically pursue national and political aspirations, and we do that in this Chamber. However, tonight, MLAs are voting on a highly contentious issue using a simple majority, and my colleagues have already reflected on that. There is a mechanism to provide for such votes in the Belfast Agreement that is being ignored today. I simply point out the irony that unionists were told, throughout the Brexit negotiations, about the importance of the Belfast Agreement in all its parts, yet the requirement for cross-community consent for today's vote was unilaterally removed by the previous Government.”
“One adviser on eBay said, rather succinctly, on the sellers' forums:”
“Those regulations also introduce certain requirements for product labelling, traceability and documentation, as well as clarifying that online marketplaces are also within the scope of these regs. I do not have to tell Members that that means further costs for sellers from GB to Northern Ireland. The Federation of Small Businesses said the following about the regs:”
“Those are commercial decisions that firms are being forced to make when assessing whether to make their goods available here in Northern Ireland. An example of that will occur this Friday — Friday the thirteenth — and the DFM referenced it in her speech. After that date, general product safety regulations will apply to goods sold into Northern Ireland from GB. I will quote directly from the Government's advice:”
“When you have completed that, you have to input a further code to tell whether it is straw or hay. I know the difference because I married a farmer's daughter, but those regulations are significant. This morning, when I finally went to the DAERA website and tried to click to see the additional guidance — that is not all the guidance — I was told that access was denied. I was not authorised to view that page. Perhaps DAERA knows that I am not a farmer or perhaps the information is just way above my security clearance. My salient point stands: all of that to move hay from Scotland to Northern Ireland. In my view, that is not good enough. <BR /> <BR />I am also concerned about, as the deputy First Minister mentioned, the chilling effect on businesses in GB that want to sell in Northern Ireland.”
“Even some of the most mundane items have been affected by what I might call protocol mission creep. <BR /> <BR />As an example, I looked up the DAERA regulations that apply if you want to purchase hay in Scotland and bring it across to Northern Ireland. That is not a particularly dangerous substance: it does not have any corrosive acids, it cannot explode and it is certainly not poisonous. The regulations are, however, significant. The DAERA website says that you need to be registered on TRACES NT, which is the EU’s trade control and expert system. You need to pre-notify DAERA of the arrival of the consignment by creating a common health entry document for products of animal origin — the document is known as a CHED P, which is quite a catchy title — on TRACES at least 24 hours before the hay enters Northern Ireland.”
“I thank the Member for her comments, and I concur fully. It is crucial not only informationally for businesses in GB but, as I was saying, for consumer choice in Northern Ireland that Intertrade UK start its work. <BR /> <BR />Finally, the report highlights the very worrying figure that over 75% of consumers who had experienced difficulties with GB retailers delivering to Northern Ireland said that they now shop a lot less from those retailers. I am sure that no one in the House wants to see that. It is crystal clear to me that the public want consumer choice when making a purchase, and, in my view, the findings of that report provide evidence of the damage that the articles are causing to choice. We have heard other Members talk about some of the products affected by the legislation, and I will not rehearse those.”
“I contend that articles 5 to 10 are responsible for some of those items not being available to purchasers in Northern Ireland, and that that is limiting consumer choice.”
“Whilst those issues are clearly problematic for consumers in Northern Ireland, I could not, in all conscience, necessarily tie them to the operation of the protocol. However, the report also states that 86% of consumers who shop online said that they:”
“A report from the Consumer Council in July 2024, entitled 'Consumer experiences of retailers not delivering to Northern Ireland', cites a couple of interesting points, and I want to highlight them to the House. It states:”
“I hear cheers from around the Assembly Chamber. <BR /> <BR />I do not want to go into the technical details of the articles, as they have already been well rehearsed by colleagues over the course of the debate. Of course, it will be a surprise to no one in the Chamber that there is disparity of opinion as to how we approach them. I simply point out — I have heard this from Members today — that the debate is not about Brexit, and it is certainly not a rehash of Brexit. Rather, it is about the continued application of articles 5 to 10 of the protocol. <BR /> <BR />In my remarks, I want to focus on consumer choice and some of the impacts that those articles have in Northern Ireland.”
“Given the hour and the length of the debate, I have reduced my speech from a chunky 45 minutes to a concise 30 minutes.”
“I thank the Minister for her answer. There has been a lot of chat about doctors' surgeries in the rest of the UK saying that they cannot afford to pay the contributions. If Treasury were to change what it has said about the issue to date and make a positive decision, would we see Barnett consequentials from that, and, if so, would those consequentials be ring-fenced?”
“I also warmly welcome the announcement this morning, which will make a real difference to, and impact on, pupils across Northern Ireland. Has the Minister any figures on how many schools in Northern Ireland have a shortfall in PE accommodation?”
“K9's purpose is to be life-saving, and given that there is no question about its professionalism and competence, it makes no rational sense to me for it to be made redundant by a Department at a time of extreme human need and distress. I call on the Justice Minister to urgently reflect on her decision and change it to the right one.”
“The most incredible aspect of this story is that K9 Search and Rescue has been declined membership of the Northern Ireland Search and Rescue Practitioners Group by the Justice Minister on the grounds that there is "no service gap". That decision renders statutory agencies such as the PSNI and coastguard powerless to task K9 Search and Rescue directly, even though it may be in a position to assist in a search but, through red tape, cannot. Given that we hear regularly in the Chamber about legitimate shortages in Departments, it is, frankly, astounding that, in the case of an organisation that requires no resources, is fully qualified and is offering its service for free, the Department of Justice is refusing its help. In 2021-22, the PSNI received over 10,000 missing person calls. That is nearly 200 people a week.”
“The organisation has also trained some of its live-victim dogs as urban search-and-rescue dogs to help to locate people in collapsed structures, and they have been used in the aftermath of the 2023 Turkey/Syria earthquake and at the Creeslough explosion. Making the group a success are the incredible team members, who are entirely voluntary and on call 24 hours a day, balancing that commitment with their personal and professional lives. As it stands, the group receives no government funding and relies completely on public donations. The volunteers have met the cost of their own training and equipment, and, to give some context to that, training one dog over a year costs about £8,000.”
“This morning, I rise to talk about dogs — super dogs. These dogs use a combination of air scenting and terrain training to locate missing and vulnerable people in any environment. Those amazing canines can cover a search area in half the time it would take a dozen humans. <BR /> <BR />The organisation is called K9 Search and Rescue. It is a professional, voluntary team that uses specialist search dogs to locate missing people across Northern Ireland and abroad. Last week, I had the opportunity to meet one of those four-legged heroes, the longest-serving canine, Max — also the name of our cockapoo — who has been leading the way on life-saving missions for more than seven years. K9 has 13 canines and 22 volunteer dog handlers.”
“I thank the Minister for that answer. In your view, Minister, how important is the work that that group does, particularly in relation to controlled schools and the support that they receive in Northern Ireland?”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. Minister, you will be aware that Caleb's Cause is calling for post-19 SEN legislation to support those children. What confidence do you have that that legislation might be delivered in this mandate?”
“Thank you very much, Minister. Can you outline any broad themes that the House might expect to see in the anti-poverty strategy?”
“The reality is that, in Northern Ireland, 340 people will die this month from a heart or circulatory disease. Around 90 of them will be younger than 75, and around 13 babies will be diagnosed with a heart defect. I certainly welcome the Education Minister's positive news yesterday that he will deliver a defibrillator for every school in Northern Ireland. That is a big step forward in this area. However, on the wider issue, I ask the Minister of Health to reflect on Northern Ireland's preparedness to address heart failure and circulatory diseases going forward and to provide a road map for improvements in this area.”
“I have mentioned two, the BHF and Heart Failure Warriors, and I would also like to highlight the work of Northern Ireland Chest, Heart and Stroke, Bravehearts NI and the Children's Heartbeat Trust. The work, however, should not be left up to those charities.”
“<BR /> <BR />It is an area that is certainly very personal to me, because my grandfather passed away with heart-related illness in his 60s. However, evidence suggests that early intervention can have a positive effect, and that is precisely why it ought to be one of our primary objectives to develop preventative services for heart disease in this country. Patients should get access to specialist treatment and care and should not have to endure a postcode lottery. We must have appropriately commissioned and staffed multi-professional heart failure services across Northern Ireland. That will help ensure speedy diagnosis; access to specialist input from cardiologists, nurses and pharmacists; and referral routes to cardiac rehabilitation and clinical psychology. <BR /> <BR />There are amazing charities working in this area.”