Kenneth Gibson
No Party Affiliation · Scotland
“The next item of business is decision time. There are eight questions to be put as a result of today’s business. I remind members that, if the amendment in the name of Amanda Bland is agreed to, the amendment in the name of Stephen Kerr will fall.”
“The next item of business is consideration of two Parliamentary Bureau motions. I ask Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, to move motions S7M-00492, on committee membership, and S7M-00505, on membership of the Congress of Local and Regional Authorities of the Council of Europe.”
“The next item of business is general question time. Many members wish to ask supplementary questions, so, in order to get in as many members as possible, I prefer short and succinct questions, with answers to match. Artificial Intelligence Data Centres (Planning Guidance) 1.”
“There are seven questions to be put as a result of today’s business. I remind members that, if the amendment in the name of Tom Arthur is agreed to, the amendments in the names of Daniel Johnson, Murdo Fraser and Willie Rennie will fall.”
“The next item of business is consideration of revised business motion S7M-00480, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, revising this week’s business programme. Any member who wishes to speak to the motion should press their request-to-speak button.”
“Speak through the chair, please. Tim Eagle: The Scottish Conservatives recognise that a strong economy is not some optional extra but the foundation on which everything else depends. I actually agree with Reform, and others, that it is all about the economy.”
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“CHAP’s early volunteers saw the pain that was caused when people lacked clear information on their rights or were unable to navigate the maze of processes required to resolve disputes or prevent homelessness. From the outset, CHAP’s founders understood a reality that continues to define the organisation’s work today—that housing problems and financial difficulties rarely arrive one at a time but tend to cluster, often appearing suddenly and without warning. Illness, redundancy, caring responsibilities, relationship breakdown and bereavement can all destabilise a household that had previously been secure. Despite relying heavily on short-term, non- recurring funding, CHAP has maintained its commitment to free, accessible support.”
“What began as a modest group of volunteers offering basic housing advice has grown into a respected multiservice organisation that supports individuals and families across North Ayrshire, East Ayrshire and much of South Ayrshire. When CHAP opened its doors in 2000, it operated from a small office in Stevenston, supported by community activists who recognised that a growing number of local households were struggling with household insecurity. Today, CHAP provides six service streams, employs 26 dedicated staff in its modern Ardrossan premises, and, as its most recent annual report shows, achieves a highly impressive 98 per cent client satisfaction rate.”
“I am grateful to Scottish National Party, Conservative and Green colleagues for enabling the debate to take place. Today, we recognise an important milestone for Ayrshire and for Scotland’s wider third sector community. For 25 years, the Community Housing Advocacy Project, known as CHAP, has provided guidance, advocacy and practical support to people who are facing some of the most challenging circumstances that a household can encounter. CHAP’s longevity is testament not only to the necessity of its work but to the dedication, professionalism and resilience of the staff and volunteers who have shaped it over the past two and a half decades.”
“Part 2 of my bill reduces the length of custodial sentence that results in the automatic removal of an MSP from more than 12 months to six months. It also provides that if an MSP does not attend parliamentary proceedings in person for a six- month period without a good reason, the SPPA Committee can recommend to Parliament that they are removed from office. The Parliament would then vote on whether to resolve to remove them.”
“However, surely if someone is elected in a closed ballot and that person switches party, they should not continue in the Parliament. The Deputy Presiding Officer: Always speak through the chair. Graham Simpson: I am always happy to speak to Mr Gibson and to take up his offer of help. What he otherwise suggests is not something that I agree with. I think that it is outwith the scope of the bill, but no doubt that will be tested at stage 2. I am suggesting that a yes/no poll would be held across the region on a given day. That would allow the electorate to vote to keep or to remove the member by a simple majority. If the member were removed, they would be replaced by the next member on the party list to which they were elected—that would address Mr Gibson’s point. If the member is an independent, they would not be replaced.”
“Opposing the suggestion that MSPs who change political parties should be recalled, Mr Simpson, who is now a Reform MSP, said: “People switch parties for various reasons. They could have been mistreated by their current party. They might find coming into work a total nightmare and think that they cannot put up with it any longer. Would you punish somebody who was in that situation by subjecting them to a recall vote? I do not think that you would; it would not be fair.”—[Official Report, Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee, 19 June 2025; c 11.] I will not ask Graham Simpson whether he is working through some emotions with that comment. I just want you to know that I am always here if you need someone to talk to.”
“To ask the Scottish Government whether it has revised the funding model for higher and further education and apprenticeships, to ensure it reflects current requirements. (S6O-05151)”
“As that is not the case at the moment, I will continue to press the United Kingdom Government on what more can be done on firework regulation, and I have sought further discussions on that issue. Peaceful Protest 2.”
“Many of my constituents have contacted me because of concerns about fireworks in relation to themselves and their animals. Does the minister agree that it would be much easier to control the use of fireworks if policies on all aspects of their sale and use were fully devolved to Scotland? Siobhian Brown: I agree that it would be better if all the legislation relating to fireworks and pyrotechnics were devolved to Scotland, so that we could fully respond to the needs and concerns of Scottish communities. In that way, we would have full control of all aspects of the sale and use of fireworks, including, potentially, limits to the noise that fireworks make.”
“That work included erecting deer fencing and planting trees with a volunteer workforce. The wildfire in Glen Rosa began on 10 April and lasted until 13 April; it is estimated that it killed thousands of trees, and it has had a significant impact. NatureScot has started to replant and revitalise the area, using volunteers. In reducing the incidence and impact of wildfires in forests and woodlands through good management, planning is important to protect the delivery of those forest ecosystems and goods services. That is why we are looking at ensuring that we have proper wildfire resilience and why we have pulled all that work together, and I very much hope that those actions will allow us to be resilient in the future.”
“Between 10 and 13 April, a decade’s worth of conservation work by the National Trust for Scotland was wiped out after a wildfire in Arran’s Glen Rosa destroyed 27,000 trees. The glen is home to three rare species of Arran whitebeam trees, with only 407 specimens in existence pre- fire. The fire was devastating to Arran’s ecology; volunteers replanted thousands of trees, but recovery will take years. Given the increasing frequency and severity of wildfires as a result of climate change, what measures will the Scottish Government take to support ecological restoration and protect diversity in fragile impacted areas? Jim Fairlie: We do an awful lot of that work already. As my colleague Kenneth Gibson talked about, in 2018, the National Trust for Scotland began restoring native woodlands to improve the biodiversity in Glen Rosa in Arran.”
“The Deputy Presiding Officer: That concludes this item of business. There will be a brief pause before we move to the next item of business, to allow front-bench members to change over. Strengthening Committees’ Effectiveness”
“We estimate that the direct financial benefits that will result from the delivery of the draft plan and all the policies will total £42.3 billion for the Scottish economy over the period from 2026 to 2040. Many of those will be direct financial benefits that will go into households and businesses in Scotland, largely driven by action on transport. For example, the switch from internal combustion engine vehicles to electric vehicles is expected to deliver lower running and maintenance costs. We have everything to gain from the plan. We will make our towns, villages and cities more resilient; we will make our lives healthier; and we will create economic opportunities if we get behind the plan. I welcome economic assessments of the plan, because they might well show that I am being a bit small-c conservative in my estimation of the benefits.”
“I am assured that the plan says: “In reality, costs and benefits are likely to change as a result of economic and technological factors.” That is true, so will there be an independent economic assessment of the effects of the plan, at macro and fiscal levels, on Scotland’s productivity and growth, sector by sector, and of its gross domestic product, employment and consumer cost burden impacts? Gillian Martin: Stephen Kerr is calling for an independent assessment. I imagine that there will be many independent assessments of the costs and benefits as the plan goes through scrutiny. However, this is not just about the costs—that is where the Tories really get this wrong. They talk about costs, costs, costs, but it is about the benefits, as well.”
“We have called on Ofgem to be open to feedback from the energy industry, which is most adversely impacted by the charges, and to guarantee that it will provide a short-term solution ahead of longer-term reform, given that Scotland’s renewable sector is absolutely crucial to achieving the shared aims for clean energy of the UK and Scottish Governments. Stephen Kerr: I am in awe of Willie Rennie having read all 410 pages of the report. I do not know how he does it; I will have to have a lesson from him on how that is done.”
“Everything that he has just outlined is a major blocker to investment, yet such investment would have the knock-on effect of keeping Scotland as the UK’s energy capital, providing all the energy jobs that we need and helping to achieve decarbonisation. The current system of transmission charges is unfit for purpose. It unfairly penalises Scottish renewable energy generators, putting them at a commercial disadvantage, and the UK Government needs to set out a long-term solution to the issue. We are deeply disappointed that the Office of Gas and Electricity Markets has rejected the decision to implement a cap and floor mechanism in the short term.”
“When Labour was previously in power at Westminster, it introduced transmission charges in Scotland while subsidising transmission elsewhere in the UK. The policy was continued by successive Westminster Tory Governments. An average 1GW Scottish offshore wind project could pay £38 million a year to Westminster, while an identical project in England could receive a subsidy of £7 million. What impact has that had on attracting investment to the renewables industry? What discussions have Scottish ministers had with the UK Government about removing those discriminatory transmission charges? Gillian Martin: Kenneth Gibson makes a very good point.”
“Amendments 107 to 112 disagreed to. Section 29—Regulation-making powers Amendments 363 and 364 moved—[Mairi Gougeon]—and agreed to. Amendment 113 moved—[Edward Mountain]. The Presiding Officer: The question is, that amendment 113 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Presiding Officer: There will be a division. Members should cast their votes now. The vote is closed.”
“For Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con) Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Carlaw, Jackson (Eastwood) (Con) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Findlay, Russell (West Scotland) (Con) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Golden, Maurice (North East Scotland) (Con) Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con) Gulhane, Sandesh (Glasgow) (Con) Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Hoy, Craig (South Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Stephen (Central Scotland) (Con) Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con) McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Simpson, Graham (Central Scotland) (Reform) Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Webber, Sue (Lothian) (Con) Wells, Annie (Glasgow) (Con) White, Tess (North East Scotland) (Con) Against Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Callaghan, Stephanie (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Ind) Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab) Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD) Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Don-Innes, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab) Ewing, Annabelle (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (Ind) Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP) Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con) Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (LD) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Proxy vote cast by Patrick Harvie Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab) Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Lennon, Monica (Central Scotland) (Lab) Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green) Proxy vote cast by Patrick Harvie Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP) Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab) Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD) McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) O’Kane, Paul (West Scotland) (Lab) Proxy vote cast by Michael Marra Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD) Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP) Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Rowley, Alex (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Russell, Davy (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (Lab) Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green) Proxy vote cast by Maggie Chapman Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) Proxy vote cast by Fulton MacGregor Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP) Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP) Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP) Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab) Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab) Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD) The Presiding Officer: The result of the division is: For 26, Against 91, Abstentions 0.”
“Amendment 230 agreed to. Amendment 107 moved—[Edward Mountain]. Section 25—Rent review: repairing tenancies Amendment 108 moved—[Edward Mountain]. Section 27A—Notice requirements: lease of 1991 Act holding Amendment 109 moved—[Edward Mountain]. Section 27B—Landlord’s objection to legatee or acquirer on intestacy: near relatives and other persons Amendment 110 moved—[Edward Mountain]. Section 27C—Legatee or acquirer on intestacy: supplementary provision Amendment 111 moved—[Edward Mountain]. Section 27D—Succession to tenancy Amendment 112 moved—[Edward Mountain]. The Presiding Officer: Does any member object to a single question being put on amendments 107 to 112? As no member objects, the question is, that amendments 107 to 112 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Presiding Officer: There will be a division.”
“On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I would have voted yes. The Presiding Officer: Thank you, Mr Gibson. We will ensure that that is recorded. For Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Callaghan, Stephanie (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Ind) Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab) Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD) Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Don-Innes, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab) Ewing, Annabelle (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (Ind) Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP) Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (LD) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) [Proxy vote cast by Patrick Harvie] Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab) Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Lennon, Monica (Central Scotland) (Lab) Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green) [Proxy vote cast by Patrick Harvie] Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP) Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab) Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD) McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) O’Kane, Paul (West Scotland) (Lab) [Proxy vote cast by Michael Marra] Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD) Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP) Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Rowley, Alex (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Russell, Davy (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (Lab) Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green) [Proxy vote cast by Maggie Chapman] Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Fulton MacGregor] Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP) Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP) Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP) Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab) Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab) Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD) Against Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con) Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Carlaw, Jackson (Eastwood) (Con) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Findlay, Russell (West Scotland) (Con) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con) Golden, Maurice (North East Scotland) (Con) Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con) Gulhane, Sandesh (Glasgow) (Con) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Hoy, Craig (South Scotland) (Con) Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Stephen (Central Scotland) (Con) Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con) McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Simpson, Graham (Central Scotland) (Reform) Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Webber, Sue (Lothian) (Con) Wells, Annie (Glasgow) (Con) White, Tess (North East Scotland) (Con) The Presiding Officer: The result of the division is: For 89, Against 27, Abstentions 0.”
“To ask the Scottish Government how it will determine where the 15 pilots for the planned GP walk-in centres will be located. (S6O-05102)”
“Amendment 53 disagreed to. Amendment 9 moved—[Mercedes Villalba]. The Deputy Presiding Officer: The question is, that amendment 9 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Deputy Presiding Officer: There will be a division. The vote is closed. Jeremy Balfour: On a point of order, Presiding Officer. Apologies, but I had the same problem again. I would have voted no. The Deputy Presiding Officer: Thank you, Mr Balfour. I will ensure that that is recorded.”
“On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I would have voted no. The Deputy Presiding Officer: Thank you, Mr Gibson. I will ensure that that is recorded. For Baillie, Jackie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Ind) Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab) Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lennon, Monica (Central Scotland) (Lab) Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green) [Proxy vote cast by Patrick Harvie] Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) McNeill, Pauline (Glasgow) (Lab) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) O’Kane, Paul (West Scotland) (Lab) [Proxy vote cast by Michael Marra] Rowley, Alex (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Russell, Davy (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (Lab) Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green) [Proxy vote cast by Maggie Chapman] Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab) Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab) Against Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) Balfour, Jeremy (Lothian) (Ind) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con) Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Callaghan, Stephanie (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Don-Innes, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Ewing, Annabelle (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (Ind) Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) Findlay, Russell (West Scotland) (Con) FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP) Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con) Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Golden, Maurice (North East Scotland) (Con) Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con) Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (LD) Gulhane, Sandesh (Glasgow) (Con) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP) Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Hoy, Craig (South Scotland) (Con) Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Stephen (Central Scotland) (Con) Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP) Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD) Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP) Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Fulton MacGregor] Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP) Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP) Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP) Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP) Webber, Sue (Lothian) (Con) Wells, Annie (Glasgow) (Con) White, Tess (North East Scotland) (Con) Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con) Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD) Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP) The Deputy Presiding Officer: The result of the division is: For 29, Against 90, Abstentions 0.”
“To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on when the heads of terms agreement for the purchase of Ardrossan harbour from Peel Ports will be signed. (S6O-05083)”
“However, the UK Conservative Government did not support the amendments, and the litany of bank closures that was read out by Craig Hoy transpired primarily when the Tories were in office. After nearly 16 months of a UK Labour Government, Scotland is seeing more and more bank branches close their doors forever. People are seeing their high street bank branches disappear at an alarming rate, just as they have seen happen with their post offices. Although there is no magic bullet to reverse the trend, I urge Scottish ministers to work with Link and the UK Government to change the arbitrary population thresholds and to finally extend the FCA’s powers to include access to wider banking services. 13:25”
“As of today, I have yet to see a single banking hub open in my constituency—and it is not for the want of trying. When I contacted Link to request a banking hub for Largs, I was told that, because only 8,996 adults live near the high street, rather than the arbitrary figure of 10,000, it does not recommend a hub. Link is regulated by the UK Government’s Financial Conduct Authority, and its remit is limited to assessing access to cash, not wider banking services. The lack of a bank on the neighbouring island of Cumbrae was not taken into consideration either. Frustratingly, powers over banking have never been devolved to the Scottish Parliament. During the passage of the UK Financial Services and Markets Act 2023, Labour MPs tabled amendments to introduce new clauses to enable the FCA to ensure access to banking services.”
“In Saltcoats, the bank said that it was about a lack of footfall, but I do not recall a time when I went to Saltcoats Clydesdale Bank, as it was, and there was not a half-hour- long queue to get served. I think that the footfall argument is often nonsense. The rush towards digital-only services has made it increasingly clear that communities such as Largs, Saltcoats and the Garnock Valley, where seven branches were extant a year ago, are being left behind by the banks. The Labour Party is strong on rhetoric and opposition but abysmal on delivery in government. One of Labour’s 20 pledges to businesses was to stop bank branch closures. Its plan for financial services stated that it will “accelerate the roll out of at least 350 ‘banking hubs’ which help people have free access to cash and wider banking services”.”
“Although I do not deny that the future of banking will be increasingly online—pushed by the banks themselves, of course—many customers, mostly the elderly and vulnerable, simply do not feel comfortable using online banking, especially given the prevalence of scams and cybercrime. A Newcastle Building Society study found that half of people aged 27 to 42 would also, in fact, rather visit the local bank branch if such a thing existed, to speak face to face instead of managing all their personal finances online. Myriad constituents have been in touch to say that the decline of face-to-face banking is being portrayed as customer choice when, in fact, it reflects the bank’s own efforts to steer customers towards digital services.”
“The loss will be keenly felt by residents and local businesses, and it will follow Royal Bank of Scotland, TSB and Clydesdale Bank closures. Whenever bank closures are imposed in my constituency, I contact bank executives to urge them to reconsider—as, I suspect, many members have done when their constituencies have been affected. However, it is always to no avail. The new assisted cash facility recommended for Largs is welcome, but it is certainly not a substitute for bank branches that give customers access to friendly, face-to-face services and advice five or six days a week. According to the Bank of Scotland’s own figures, one third of its Largs customers rely on face-to-face banking services.”
“I congratulate Craig Hoy on securing this debate on an important matter that is, unfortunately, affecting a growing number of my constituents. Saltcoats has been left with only one bank branch providing in-person banking services after the closure of Santander’s Chapelwell Street branch on 21 July. The situation is made worse by the fact that Saltcoats post office, also on Chapelwell Street, remains under threat, as it is a facility that banks often point to for basic banking facilities when they close branches. Largs, a town of more than 11,000 inhabitants, with a sizeable number of tourists and day trippers, will be left with no bank at all when the Bank of Scotland shuts its Main Street premises in March.”
“Not only did the national insurance contribution increase hit employers, particularly those with lots of employees, but it was a surprise for many of them, because the increase was not in any of Labour’s manifestos. It is the surprising nature of the increase as well as the negative impact of it that has caused so much damage. Computing Science Teachers (Technology and Digital Sectors) 3.”
“Does the Deputy First Minister agree that the policy that is most detrimental to businesses, charities and the public sector is Labour’s damaging hike in employer national insurance contributions? That tax on jobs is stifling growth and investment, and it has already cost 90,000 jobs across the United Kingdom hospitality sector alone. Will she therefore again urge the chancellor to change course in the upcoming UK budget? Kate Forbes: We know that what Kenny Gibson has just set out is factual because of the direct engagement that we have had with the businesses, third sector organisations and public sector organisations that he has cited.”
“On a point of order, Presiding Officer. My app also froze. I would have voted no. The Deputy Presiding Officer: Thank you, Mr Gibson. Your vote will be recorded.”
“Will there be any increase in Scottish Government support for the successful Medics Against Violence programme? Angela Constance: We have committed more than £6 million to support a range of prevention and early intervention activities. That includes funding for Medics Against Violence, which has been awarded nearly £350,000 in this financial year, which is an increase on the previous year. That funding supports the delivery of work in our schools, including, for example, the provision of violence prevention messages to almost 5,000 pupils last year. It also supports the delivery of Medics Against Violence’s very successful navigator programme across eight emergency departments, as well as the youth navigator service.”
“More broadly, the Scottish Government welcomed the UK Government’s commitment to reset its relationships with the devolved nations; however, we have become increasingly concerned about the extent to which that relationship has truly been reset. Several high-profile problems in intergovernmental working have occurred over the first year of the UK Government’s term. I hope that Mr Jones takes note of that and works to forge better collaboration, to ultimately benefit the people of Scotland. The Presiding Officer: Question 2 has been withdrawn. Libraries 3.”
“The Presiding Officer: Please answer with regard to the substantive question. Angus Robertson: First, I take the opportunity to publicly welcome Mr Jones to his role as Chief Secretary to the Prime Minister and Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, following the UK Government’s latest reshuffle. It is crucial that UK Government ministers engage meaningfully with devolved Governments and parliamentarians, especially in relation to the budget, given the impact that spending decisions at Westminster have on Scotland. Given that he now has responsibility for intergovernmental relations, I urge Mr Jones to pursue a good level of engagement with me and my ministerial colleagues, as well as with the Parliament and parliamentarians.”
“Regular co-operation with other Governments across the British Isles is vital. At the interparliamentary finance committee forum in March, 13 parliamentarians from 11 parties in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland met to discuss issues of mutual interest. However, the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, Darren Jones MP, offered only to appear virtually—which was eventually downgraded to a 15-minute slot. A freedom of information request showed his diary to be empty other than for work on the spending review that was then some 12 weeks away. Does the cabinet secretary share my concern, and that of other parliamentarians across the devolved Assemblies and Parliaments, that a United Kingdom minister seems to be happy to show devolved Administrations such casual disrespect?”
“To ask the Scottish Government, as part of the work of its ministerial population task force, what action it will undertake to support people to have larger families, should they want more children. (S6O-05019)”
“It has said: “The kind of reforms and legislation within the Act of 2011 don’t really hold factors to account as much as they probably should. There’s an urgent need for greater transparency and awareness to ensure home owners understand their rights and can effectively challenge unfair factoring practices.” Some owners and tenants have waited far too long for improvements in the factoring industry. I welcome the other amendments in the group, and I thank Mark Griffin and members of his group for their engagement on the issue. The amendments, taken together with mine, would improve the service that residents need. I urge members to support my amendments in the group.”
“Previous legislation has already lowered the threshold for some properties, so my amendment is not at all unprecedented. Amendment 19 would provide a simple process for requesting that a factor is removed from the register. Owners would send a request to the Scottish Government, saying that their factor is failing and falling short of its obligations. Ministers would be under a duty to consider such requests and to either remove the factor from or retain them on the factor register, giving reasons why. Information on the number of factors removed or retained, and the reasons why, would be published, which would improve transparency and strengthen the hand of owners against poor factors. Citizens Advice Scotland supports changes in the factoring system.”
“When owners want to change factors, it can be very difficult, as Mark Griffin has already outlined, given the high thresholds that need to be reached. In larger developments, perhaps with many absentee owners, it can be especially difficult, which means that factors lack the incentive to improve, and owners are stuck with poor service. We do not tolerate that in other markets. It used to be much harder to switch energy providers, for instance, but energy customers can now switch much more easily if they are paying too much or not getting a good service. We should do the same with property factors. At the moment, it is complicated to dismiss or appoint a factor, with different thresholds applying to different developments. My amendment 20 would address that by requiring only a simple majority vote.”
“I move amendment 339. Maggie Chapman: Many members in the chamber will have been asked to help constituents who are experiencing difficulties with property factors. Some property factors provide really good services to owners, but many—too many—do not. Since the Property Factors (Scotland) Act 2011 came into force, the number of complaints has grown, starting at 26 a year and reaching a record high of 338 in 2023. Some owners of factored properties complain that much-needed repairs are not done or are delayed, that they are carried out to a poor standard or that they are overcharged for. Approximately 710,000 Scottish properties— about a quarter of all homes—are managed by almost 400 property factors and letting companies. Those figures will only grow as we build much- needed new blocks and estates.”
“Grounds maintenance issues are affecting new- build estates right across the country. Mandatory owners associations would enable people to come together to challenge the occasional poor practice and lack of transparency and, more crucially, would provide a forum to allow home owners to change factor if they so desired. Although the work that the Scottish Law Commission is doing is clearly valuable, given that it applies purely to tenements and does not give coverage of grounds maintenance contracts that affect new-build estates across the country, it is still worth our considering this valuable amendment and compulsory home owners forums, organisations or whatever we want to call them, to give people the ability to come together annually to consider the performance of their factor. I ask members to support all amendments in the group.”
“Graham Simpson: In relation to amendment 346, which deals with owners associations, we have already heard that the Scottish Law Commission is doing a piece of work specifically on compulsory owners associations for tenements. I know that the member is speaking for Sarah Boyack in this case, but would he accept my point, which is that we really ought to let the Law Commission complete its work? I know that it is slow and that it has been very frustrating, but I think that the commission needs to complete that detailed piece of work and report back to Parliament. It will be for the Parliament in the next session, whatever its make-up, to deal with the important issues that the commission reflects on. Mark Griffin: The issue is wider than that: it goes beyond tenement maintenance.”
“Amendment 344 creates a clear duty on factors to provide relevant information to home owners on request, or where a case is live before the First-tier Tribunal. It defines “relevant information”, it requires the tribunal to issue a disclosure direction unless a request is unreasonable or off point, and it ties non-compliance to ministerial enforcement. That relates to transparency that shortens disputes by getting documents, invoices, contracts and decisions up front, with reduced hearings, costs and frustration for everyone. I encourage members to support amendments 344 and 345. Amendment 346, in Sarah Boyack’s name, is on owners associations. It recognises owners associations under the development management scheme, so that home owners can act collectively in dealing with factors and, where needed, at the First-tier Tribunal.”
“I am calling for the maximum compensation that the tribunal can award to be raised to £10,000, providing a meaningful response to factors who flout the law that applies to them and reflecting the time and effort that home owners invest in pursuing such complaints. That provision would allow for further future increases by regulation. Additionally, any major expenditure over £10,000 that is not already covered by the deed of condition should require approval from the residents forum. That ensures that home owners have oversight of significant spending decisions. Finally, I support further amendments in the group that strengthen transparency and enforcement throughout the legislation. I will now briefly cover three amendments in the name of Sarah Boyack—as she is not available to be in the chamber today—starting with amendments 344 and 345.”
“If a factor plans to transfer their contract to another company, home owners must be notified in advance. Those seem to me to be basic standards that any fair contract should meet. We should never have a situation where the first time that a home owner realises that their factor has changed is when they receive a bill from the new factor without any notice whatsoever. I also seek to add a purpose section to the 2011 act, making it clear that its role is to set out the rights and responsibilities of both factors and residents. That will help to guide interpretation and enforcement of the law.”
“17:00 I have also stipulated that factors must produce information that allows home owners to defend their rights more easily before the First-tier Tribunal for Scotland. I note that several of my colleagues, and the Government, have amendments that touch on that. I acknowledge the work of colleagues across the parties—Ariane Burgess, Maggie Chapman, Graham Simpson, Sarah Boyack and Pam Duncan-Glancy, as well as the Government—and I urge members to support the amendments in this group in their entirety. The proposals in my amendments focus on transparency, accountability and home owner empowerment. Factors would be required to share their written statement of services and to publish clear and accessible information about service costs, both current and historic.”
“That is why I, along with colleagues from across the chamber, have laid a package of amendments to the bill with the simple aim of giving home owners a fairer deal and a stronger voice in how their homes and shared spaces are managed. I acknowledge the efforts of members from all parties who have championed the rights of home owners to remove unsatisfactory factors more easily, and I also welcome the Government’s willingness to improve the system. Labour’s amendments in this group would allow groups of home owners to work together more easily to take action against factors who are not living up to their roles and responsibilities by putting the onus on the factors to set up and arrange meetings and by ensuring that home owners can more easily take action against them by facilitating the annual meeting of home owners.”