Kenneth Gibson
No Party Affiliation · Scotland
“The next item of business is decision time. There are eight questions to be put as a result of today’s business. I remind members that, if the amendment in the name of Amanda Bland is agreed to, the amendment in the name of Stephen Kerr will fall.”
“The next item of business is consideration of two Parliamentary Bureau motions. I ask Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, to move motions S7M-00492, on committee membership, and S7M-00505, on membership of the Congress of Local and Regional Authorities of the Council of Europe.”
“The next item of business is general question time. Many members wish to ask supplementary questions, so, in order to get in as many members as possible, I prefer short and succinct questions, with answers to match. Artificial Intelligence Data Centres (Planning Guidance) 1.”
“There are seven questions to be put as a result of today’s business. I remind members that, if the amendment in the name of Tom Arthur is agreed to, the amendments in the names of Daniel Johnson, Murdo Fraser and Willie Rennie will fall.”
“The next item of business is consideration of revised business motion S7M-00480, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, revising this week’s business programme. Any member who wishes to speak to the motion should press their request-to-speak button.”
“Speak through the chair, please. Tim Eagle: The Scottish Conservatives recognise that a strong economy is not some optional extra but the foundation on which everything else depends. I actually agree with Reform, and others, that it is all about the economy.”
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“The DWP knew that a massive cohort of women were unaware of changes to their pensions, knew that it should write to them and knew that that would make a difference. Ms Kendall’s attempt to rewrite history and blame the WASPI women for being unaware of the changes deserves only our contempt. The Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman’s conclusions resulted from a rigorous and impartial investigation that unequivocally confirmed DWP failings—they are not advisory suggestions to be conveniently ignored. Governments have a duty to act with fairness and integrity, to acknowledge mistakes and to rectify them once they are discovered. When that duty is abdicated, as we see in this case, it erodes trust not just in the political party involved but in Government institutions more widely.”
“Ms Kendall argued that giving women proper notice of the changes would not have made a difference, thereby shamefully seeking to repudiate the entire premise of the WASPI campaign. In shrugging off an SNP MP’s question, the secretary of state echoed a suggestion that was previously made by Jackie Baillie, Labour’s deputy leader in this Parliament: if you do not like it, mitigate it yourselves. Such comments show wilful ignorance of section 28 of the Scotland Act 2016, which prohibits the Scottish Parliament from such action, as the “Report of the Smith Commission for further devolution of powers to the Scottish Parliament” stated specifically that “All aspects of ... pension” provision should “remain ... reserved”.”
“However, even if Ms Kendall was right— she is not—that 90 per cent of women did know, that would still leave 380,000 women in the UK, 33,000 in Scotland and hundreds in my constituency to be compensated. The UK Labour Government is offering nothing—it is no wonder that emotions are so raw. For years, Labour politicians, including Sir Keir Starmer and the Chancellor of the Exchequer, Rachel Reeves, happily stood alongside WASPI women and their campaign placards demanding fair and fast compensation. To add insult to injury, Ms Kendall openly campaigned for WASPI and was photographed signing WASPI pledges and affirming her support. To go from that to her statement on 17 December shows an astonishing political metamorphosis. However, the Labour Government is not just ruling out compensation in any form, as awful as that is.”
“The memo proposed “A direct mail to this group … as the most appropriate way of minimising the risk of future criticism that the Department has not been sufficiently proactive in communicating to those women affected by the change in State Pension age.” Research showed the target audience “Has a strong preference for printed material, being generally positive towards direct mail and particularly its presentation.” Therefore, in December, when Ms Kendall, the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, said that 90 per cent of WASPI women knew about the change to their pension age and then flatly rejected compensation, the shock, anger and sense of duplicity that WASPI women felt were all too real.”
“[Applause.] After one of the most tenacious and determined grass-roots campaigns in recent memory, WASPI women believed that they were slowly winning against Whitehall intransigence. In March 2024, a comprehensive investigation by the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman damned the DWP and vindicated WASPI campaigners. The DWP was found guilty of “maladministration” and the ombudsman made clear that affected women “should be compensated”. A major factor in the ombudsman’s conclusions came from the DWP’s failure to react appropriately to research findings and recommendations. An internal DWP memorandum references a survey that found that half of women whose state pension age had risen thought that it was still 60.”
“It subsequently did change, to 63 and a half and then to 65 and three months. She was given no notice to prepare. Another woman, who contacted Pauline McNeill, became unwell at 58, after working all her life, and discovered by accident that the age at which she had expected to receive her pension—60—had increased to 66. It is undeniable that successive UK Governments failed to grasp the detrimental impact on millions of women. The former Minister of State for Pensions, Baroness Ros Altmann, said that the then Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, Iain Duncan Smith MP, had allegedly refused to engage with affected women, saying that they “would go away sooner or later.” Well, those women are still here—in our public gallery, in fact—and their voices are still being heard.”
“Many also had caring responsibilities. Last year, the Pensions Policy Institute found that women’s pension wealth, by their late 50s, is less than two thirds that of men as a result of their being paid less than the national insurance lower earnings limit. All MSPs will have heard from constituents about the devastating impact that raising women’s pension age without due notice has had on their lives. That impact has led to women abandoning plans to care for elderly or infirm relatives, being forced into low-paid and insecure work, and being pushed into poverty as what savings they had have dwindled away. I highlight a case that was previously raised in the chamber by Neil Bibby. In 2012, his constituent was told by the Department for Work and Pensions that her state pension age had not changed.”
“For those who are unaware, I note that the Pensions Act 1995 and the Pensions Act 2011 resulted in the state pension age for women who were born in the 1950s changing from 60 to 65 and then to 66, but 3.8 million women across the UK—including 336,000 in Scotland and 26,430 in Ayrshire—who were impacted by the changes were not given proper notice. Many women received a letter advising them of the changes only within one year or less of their expected state pension age of 60. Some found themselves retiring from employment on a Friday, only to find that they could not claim their pension the following Monday and would have to wait up to six more years. Most older women were already at greater risk of poverty as a result of earning lower pay during their working lives, having interrupted their careers to raise families.”
“Women were understandably angry and frustrated at the decision by Liz Kendall MP, the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, not to compensate them. For a decade, women against state pension inequality campaigners and their supporters have demanded justice. This is the fifth WASPI debate that we have had at Holyrood. At Westminster, it was the last issue that was debated before the United Kingdom general election, on a motion that was tabled by the former SNP member of Parliament for North Ayrshire and Arran, Patricia Gibson, who spoke about WASPI in the House of Commons 46 times.”
“I thank the Scottish National Party and Green MSPs who signed my motion to enable the debate to happen, and I thank Age Scotland and Close the Gap for their briefings. Deputy Presiding Officer, “Members are shocked and disgusted by what can only be seen as a betrayal of everything the Labour Party MPs & MSPs have told us while they were in opposition. Instead of going after all those who fraudulently claimed money for inadequate PPE for example, they decide to target the vulnerable and already penalised WASPI women. Lying, untrustworthy hypocrites is the best description of how we feel about the Labour Party now!” Those are not my words but the words of the Ayrshire WASPI group, as reported last month in the Ardrossan & Saltcoats Herald.”
“Although those were difficult decisions, the independent Accounts Commission confirmed, as I said in my previous answer to Pam Gosal, that the Scottish Government has provided a real-terms funding increase to local government in the past three years. Tory members might not like facts, but those are the facts. The Deputy Presiding Officer: I ask Collette Stevenson to be very brief.”
“Under the Tories between 2018 and 2023, seven English local authorities, including the largest—Birmingham City Council—had to issue section 114 notices of bankruptcy. Not a single council in Scotland has gone bankrupt under this SNP Government. Given the Tories’ abysmal record on local government, does the cabinet secretary agree that they are the last people from whom we should take lessons? Shona Robison: I agree with every word of that. A decade of Conservative Party austerity measures left public services with very little resilience, and the facts about what has happened to English local authorities speak for themselves. The Scottish Government had to take very difficult decisions to protect local services and ensure that communities across Scotland continued to receive high-quality public front-line services.”
“On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I was unable to connect; I would have voted no. The Presiding Officer: We will ensure that that is recorded.”
“The increase in capacity—in particular, heavy goods vehicle capacity—on the Islay route will ease current pressures and help to sustain economic growth. The additional vessel on the Little Minch routes during the summer period will increase capacity and enhance cover for the wider fleet during the winter overhaul period.”
“Can the cabinet secretary give us the most recent progress update on the MV Indaal, MV Claymore and MV Lochmor? What specific improvements will those new vessels make on the routes that they will serve, and how will their addition to the fleet improve the ferry network as a whole? Fiona Hyslop: The latest update from Caledonian Maritime Assets Ltd has indicated that delivery of those vessels from the Cemre yard is expected to follow in four-monthly intervals after the delivery of the first vessel, the MV Isle of Islay. Those vessels will be deployed on the Islay and Little Minch routes over the coming years. Along with the on-going port improvement works that we are investing in, the vessels will significantly improve services for island residents, visitors and businesses.”
“Finally, I should highlight some further trophies that St Mirren have won, which were not mentioned by George. They won the 1922 Barcelona tournament, only three years after winning the victory cup in 1919. They also won the Anglo-Scottish cup in 1918, and we should not forget their Scottish cup victories in 1926 and 1959. The partnership between UWS and St Mirren, along with the involvement of Kibble, undoubtedly strengthens the club’s ties to the local community for the years and decades ahead and contributes to the saints once again bringing football trophies to Paisley. The Deputy Presiding Officer: Thank you, Mr Gibson—I suspect that Morton will be writing to the Presiding Officer to demand a right to reply. 17:20”
“However, St Mirren, Motherwell and Hearts provide a powerful counterbalance to professional football as an arena in which only big money talks. The buddies’ collaboration with local partners such as UWS will give the club an even stronger anchoring in Paisley, in line with the supporters association’s aim to safeguard the club’s place at the heart of the Paisley community. That is reinforced by work that was carried out in partnership with the children’s charity and leading social enterprise, Kibble Education and Care Centre, which owns a 27.5 per cent stake in the club. Kibble provides a range of integrated services to support vulnerable children and young people in Paisley and beyond. I welcome the co-operation agreement between UWS and St Mirren.”
“In the three seasons since the takeover, the club has not only been successful on the pitch but has seen its highest average attendances this century, with numbers having gradually increased to 7,665 this season. That proves that having a club that operates for the benefit of supporters does not have to come at the expense of financial and sporting success. It is great to hear the team sheet read out at home games—unlike at Morton matches, where they read out the names of the supporters who have turned up. Being fan owned does not equal fan run, and St Mirren is still run by the club’s board and management. Too many professional football clubs are now distant multimillion-pound brands that prioritise short-term success while often pricing out the communities in which they operate.”
“The St Mirren Independent Supporters Association has been the majority 51 per cent owner of St Mirren FC since 2021, thus ensuring that the club is kept in the hands of the people who care for it most: the loyal buddies supporters. I recognise George Adam’s work and years of dedication as chair of SMISA between 2015 and 2022, when his relentless and assiduous dedication helped the club to move to fan ownership. The process was assisted by Supporters Direct, which has worked throughout the United Kingdom since 2000 to help fans to gain club ownership, and which was instrumental in informing saints fans during the takeover of St Mirren.”
“Through the partnership, the club will fund two research projects: one will evaluate the recent psychosocial player development programme, and the other will focus on providing long-term personalised support to the St Mirren academy staff in delivering the programme. The saints will benefit from the academic expertise and resources of UWS, which will help to enhance the quality of their football operations and business infrastructure. George Adam’s motion highlights that the initiative is the by-product of having a football club that is anchored in its local community and directly owned by its supporters. It is similar to the very successful model that operates in German professional football, where—despite some notable loopholes—most clubs are majority owned by their members.”
“I have often highlighted, in my contributions in the Parliament and in meetings of the cross-party group on life sciences, the importance of innovation and education reinforcing each other. On a personal note, my son Ross was a student at UWS and graduated with a first in chemistry only three years ago. The new memorandum of understanding between St Mirren and UWS is a real-world example of promoting student engagement with industry by offering unique hands-on learning experiences that will prepare students for careers in sport and beyond. I am sure that many students will relish the opportunity to gain experience in working at a Scottish premiership club—I certainly would have done during my time as a student.”
“I congratulate my friend and colleague, and fellow St Mirren supporter, George Adam, on securing the debate. I say to Christine Grahame that, although she might not know a lot about football, she would still make the Morton first team. [Laughter.] If anyone has not seen the team’s DVD, “Morton: 100 Great Throw-ins”, it is well worth watching. It is great to see how the people of Paisley have warmed to Johnstone boy George and taken him to their hearts—I am sorry that I had to reveal that. As someone who was born in Paisley, I am, of course, delighted to speak in this debate on the co-operation between two historic Paisley institutions: the University of the West of Scotland and St Mirren Football Club.”
“A rebrand is essential, and I hope that the Deputy First Minister will respond on that issue directly in her speech.”
“Our scrutiny reflected on the proposed change in the framework’s purpose, which is now “To improve the wellbeing of people living in Scotland now and in the future”. Although we acknowledge the rationale that underpins the change, the updated purpose calls into question whether the title of the national performance framework remains accurate and relevant, particularly given that the review document itself describes the framework as “Scotland’s Wellbeing Framework”. We heard from some witnesses that clarity around the framework’s purpose could be better achieved by including a reference to wellbeing in its name. We therefore recommend that, as part of its future consultation plans, the Scottish Government seeks stakeholders’ views on updating the framework’s name to ensure that its title accurately reflects its purpose.”
“Our focus was on the overall review, implementation and cross-cutting issues, building on evidence that was previously received as part of our 2022 inquiry. Taken together, the Finance and Public Administration Committee’s report, the written views of other committees and today’s debate constitute the Parliament’s consultation response to the Scottish Government’s second statutory review of the national outcomes. As the report shows, the national performance framework continues to be an important agreed vision of the type of place that Scotland should aspire to be. However, there is room for improvement, and our report makes several recommendations in relation to the national outcomes themselves, as well as on implementation and delivery.”
“I am pleased to speak on behalf of the Finance and Public Administration Committee in this debate on the Scottish Government’s proposed national outcomes. We launched a joint committee inquiry into the proposed national outcomes last May, and I thank all those who took the time to speak with us and provide written evidence. Their input was invaluable in shaping our findings and recommendations. I particularly thank the committee’s former clerk, Jane Williams, who was with the Scottish Parliament since 1999 and who retired at Christmas to head off to east Asia and the antipodes. For her sins, Jane seemingly lived and breathed the national performance framework. The review was a shared endeavour, with multiple committees undertaking scrutiny of the national outcomes that were relevant to their remits.”
“Of course, there always needs to be a sharp check with reality with regard to what resources are available and, indeed, what powers are available to this Parliament. However, I am pleased that, for the second year, we have increased the justice allocation in the budget. If passed, the budget will mean an investment of almost £4.2 billion in justice, which is an increase of £398 million. That increased budget will support the provision of high-quality public services, including police, fire, courts and prisons, continuing to keep our communities safe. Secure Accommodation Capacity”
“Today, Jeremy Balfour seeks additional resources for the courts. In the last debate before Christmas, Pam Gosal sought more money to fix potholes. Last week, Murdo Fraser demanded more electric vehicle charging points. Given that none of those uncosted suggestions was even mentioned in December’s Tory budget debate, and that, on Monday, Russell Findlay again called for tax cuts, does the cabinet secretary agree that the Tories have not a shred of credibility when it comes to Scotland’s finances? The Deputy Presiding Officer: I call the cabinet secretary to answer with regard to matters relating to her portfolio responsibilities. Angela Constance: Of course, Presiding Officer. What is relevant to the justice portfolio is that the First Minister has continued to emphasise that he wants to maximise agreement with all parties.”