Kenneth Gibson
No Party Affiliation · Scotland
“The next item of business is decision time. There are eight questions to be put as a result of today’s business. I remind members that, if the amendment in the name of Amanda Bland is agreed to, the amendment in the name of Stephen Kerr will fall.”
“The next item of business is consideration of two Parliamentary Bureau motions. I ask Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, to move motions S7M-00492, on committee membership, and S7M-00505, on membership of the Congress of Local and Regional Authorities of the Council of Europe.”
“The next item of business is general question time. Many members wish to ask supplementary questions, so, in order to get in as many members as possible, I prefer short and succinct questions, with answers to match. Artificial Intelligence Data Centres (Planning Guidance) 1.”
“There are seven questions to be put as a result of today’s business. I remind members that, if the amendment in the name of Tom Arthur is agreed to, the amendments in the names of Daniel Johnson, Murdo Fraser and Willie Rennie will fall.”
“The next item of business is consideration of revised business motion S7M-00480, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, revising this week’s business programme. Any member who wishes to speak to the motion should press their request-to-speak button.”
“Speak through the chair, please. Tim Eagle: The Scottish Conservatives recognise that a strong economy is not some optional extra but the foundation on which everything else depends. I actually agree with Reform, and others, that it is all about the economy.”
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“This is a draft Official Report and is subject to correction between publication and archiving, which will take place no later than 35 working days after the date of the meeting. The most up-to-date version is available here: https://www.parliament.scot/chamber-and-committees/official-report Members and other meeting participants who wish to suggest corrections to their contributions should contact the Official Report. Official Report Email: official.report@parliament.scot Room T2.20 Telephone: 0131 348 5447 Scottish Parliament Edinburgh EH99 1SP The deadline for corrections to this edition is 20 working days after the date of publication.”
“There is one question to be put as a result of today’s business. The question is, that motion S7M-00075, in the name of Tom Arthur, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, on standing orders, be agreed to. Motion agreed to, That the Parliament agrees, with effect from 21 May 2026, that under Rule 3.6.2, the number of appointed Members of the Parliamentary Corporation for this session shall be six. The Presiding Officer: That concludes decision time, and I will close the meeting. However, before any members leave, I would like to ask all of you to please stay in the chamber so that we can have our official group photograph for the 2026-31 session taken. Meeting closed at 16:08.”
“The next item of business is consideration of motion S7M-00075, in the name of Tom Arthur, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, on standing orders. Motion moved, That the Parliament agrees, with effect from 21 May 2026, that under Rule 3.6.2, the number of appointed Members of the Parliamentary Corporation for this session shall be six.—[Tom Arthur] Decision Time 16:08”
“The next item of business is consideration of motion S7M-00074, in the name of Tom Arthur, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, on the programme of business for this week. Motion moved, That the Parliament agrees the following programme of business for Thursday 21 May 2026— 2.30pm Parliamentary Bureau Motion (if required) followed by Appointment of Scottish Ministers and Junior Scottish Ministers followed by Election of Members to the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body followed by Presiding Officer’s Proposals for the Parliamentary Week followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions (if required)— [Tom Arthur] Motion agreed to. Parliamentary Bureau Motion 16:07”
“The next item of business is an urgent question. In order to get in as many members as possible—a number of members have supplementaries—I would prefer short and succinct questions, and answers to match. Football Disorder in Glasgow (Discussions) 1.”
“There will be a short suspension while the result is verified. I will then announce the results of voting. A candidate will be elected if an overall majority is obtained. If no majority is obtained, the candidate or candidates with the smallest number of votes will be eliminated. I ask members to note that, if we have a vote between only two candidates, all that is required for one of the candidates to be elected is a simple majority. Members might wish to record an abstention, and no account of those votes will be taken in establishing whether a simple majority has been achieved. We will then proceed to a further round of voting. I call Alex Cole-Hamilton, who has up to five minutes. 14:01”
“Good afternoon, everyone. The first item of business is the selection of the Parliament’s nominee as First Minister. A note explaining the procedure to be followed has been made available to all members. I have received six valid nominations for selection of the Parliament’s nominee for First Minister. I will announce the nominees in alphabetical order: Alex Cole-Hamilton, Russell Findlay, Gillian Mackay, Malcolm Offord, Anas Sarwar and John Swinney. I will ask each nominee to speak in support of their candidacy for up to five minutes. After the nominees have spoken, members will be asked to cast their vote for their preferred candidate. A separate vote will be called for each candidate, and members can vote only once. When all voting has been completed, any member who has not yet voted will be invited to cast a vote to abstain.”
“Published in Edinburgh by the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body, the Scottish Parliament, Edinburgh, EH99 1SP All documents are available on the Scottish Parliament website at: www.parliament.scot Information on non-endorsed print suppliers is available here: www.parliament.scot/documents For information on the Scottish Parliament contact Public Information on: Telephone: 0131 348 5000 Textphone: 0800 092 7100 Email: sp.info@parliament.scot”
“This is a draft Official Report and is subject to correction between publication and archiving, which will take place no later than 35 working days after the date of the meeting. The most up-to-date version is available here: https://www.parliament.scot/chamber-and-committees/official-report Members and other meeting participants who wish to suggest corrections to their contributions should contact the Official Report. Official Report Email: official.report@parliament.scot Room T2.20 Telephone: 0131 348 5447 Scottish Parliament Edinburgh EH99 1SP The deadline for corrections to this edition is 20 working days after the date of publication.”
“Accordingly, as Katy Clark received more votes than the total number of votes that were received by the other candidate, and as more than 25 per cent of members voted, Katy Clark is elected as the second Deputy Presiding Officer of the Scottish Parliament. [Applause.] I thank all the candidates for Presiding Officer and Deputy Presiding Officer who participated in proceedings this afternoon and this evening. The next meeting of the Parliament will be at 2 pm on Tuesday 19 May to select a nominee for the appointment of First Minister. Following that, there will be a photograph of us all, so wear your Sunday best. I now close this first meeting of the seventh session of the Scottish Parliament. Meeting closed at 19:43.”
“That will happen as soon as the ballot papers are printed—obviously. 19:21 Meeting suspended. 19:27 On resuming— The Presiding Officer: Ballot papers up the back. Please vote now. Members voted by secret ballot. The Presiding Officer: Everyone has now voted. Once again, I ask scrutineers and candidates to please go to the back of the chamber. The votes will be counted for the final time. In the final round of voting to elect a second Deputy Presiding Officer, the number of votes that were cast for each candidate is as follows: Miles Briggs 55, Katy Clark 68. There were three abstentions and one spoiled paper.”
“Therefore, I suspend the meeting until such time as they are printed. 18:58 Meeting suspended. 19:05 On resuming— The Presiding Officer: I declare that the election for the second Deputy Presiding Officer is now open. The voting procedures are the same as before. Members voted by secret ballot. The Presiding Officer: Voting in this round of the Deputy Presiding Officer election is closed. I invite the scrutineers, along with the candidates, to proceed to the back of the chamber for the counting of votes. In this round of voting in the election of the second Deputy Presiding Officer, the number of votes cast for each candidate was as follows: Claire Baker 30, Miles Briggs 50, Katy Clark 44. There were three abstentions. As no one has secured a majority, Claire Baker is eliminated and we will proceed to the final round of voting.”
“Accordingly, as Clare Adamson received more votes than the total number of votes received by the other candidates, and as more than 25 per cent of members voted, Clare Adamson is elected as Deputy Presiding Officer of the Scottish Parliament. [Applause.] Voting rounds will now begin for the election of the second Deputy Presiding Officer, involving all the candidates who were unsuccessful in the election of the first Deputy Presiding Officer. However, as the Presiding Officer and the first Deputy Presiding Officer come from the same political party, Stuart McMillan is not eligible to be a candidate in this election. For clarity, the candidates are: Claire Baker, Miles Briggs and Katy Clark. There will now be a short break—that is right; you have guessed it—while ballot papers are printed.”
“Once again, we will have a brief break while new ballot papers are printed. 18:35 Meeting suspended. 18:40 On resuming— The Presiding Officer: Okay, folks, you know the drill. Ballot papers are at the back of the chamber. Members voted by secret ballot. The Presiding Officer: Voting for this round of the Deputy Presiding Officer election is now closed. I invite scrutineers to proceed to the back of the chamber for the count. Again, candidates may also observe the count. Colleagues, you will be delighted to know that we have a result. In this round of voting for the election of the Deputy Presiding Officer, the number of votes cast for each candidate was as follows: Clare Adamson 68, Claire Baker 18, Miles Briggs 41.”
“18:16 On resuming— The Presiding Officer: We have new ballot papers. The voting period is therefore reopened, using the same voting procedure as before. Members voted by secret ballot. The Presiding Officer: Voting for this round of the Deputy Presiding Officer election is now closed. I invite scrutineers to proceed to the back of the chamber for the count. Candidates may also observe the count. Colleagues, in this round of voting in the Deputy Presiding Officer election, the number of votes cast for each candidate was as follows: Clare Adamson 58, Claire Baker 22, Miles Briggs 37 and Stuart McMillan 10. As no one has received the required number of votes, Stuart McMillan will drop out and we will move forward to another round of voting with Clare Adamson, Claire Baker and Miles Briggs as the three remaining candidates.”
“As that will take a few minutes, I am delighted to advise members that there is catering in the coffee lounge next door, which includes bars of chocolate, crisps, sandwiches and so on. In the previous session, there were some very unscrupulous individuals who occasionally slipped the odd bar of chocolate or bag of crisps into their pocket—I hope that that will not be revisited in this session. Thank you, all. In the first round of voting in the election of the Deputy Presiding Officers, the number of votes cast for each candidate was as follows: Clare Adamson 46, Claire Baker 16, Miles Briggs 38, Katy Clark 6, Stuart McMillan 17. As no one has secured a majority, we will proceed to the next round of voting, with Katy Clark having been eliminated. There will be a short break while new ballot papers are printed. 18:11 Meeting suspended.”
“When the first Deputy Presiding Officer is elected, voting rounds will begin for the second Deputy Presiding Officer, involving all candidates who were unsuccessful in the election of the first. Without further ado, we open the voting session. We now proceed to—[Interruption.] I can see you, Lloyd—don’t think I can’t. Steady. Members can now proceed to the appropriate desk to collect their ballot papers. Members voted by secret ballot. The Presiding Officer: Voting in this round of the Deputy Presiding Officer election is now closed. I invite any scrutineers appointed by the candidates to go to the back of the chamber to observe the counting of ballot papers. Candidates may also observe the count.”
“I have received five valid nominations for the position of Deputy Presiding Officer, and I shall now announce the nominations again in alphabetical order. They are: Clare Adamson, Claire Baker, Miles Briggs, Katy Clark and Stuart McMillan. The election shall proceed in accordance with rules 11.9 and 3.3 of standing orders, with voting procedures being the same as those used in the election of the Presiding Officer. Members will be voting for only one person at this point. If no candidate receives an overall majority in the first round of voting, there will be subsequent rounds. This procedure will also be followed for the election of the second Deputy Presiding Officer.”
“The first meeting of the seventh session of the Parliament is now resumed. I have received five valid nominations for the position of Deputy Presiding Officer. I shall now announce the nominees and ask all candidates, as their names are announced, to make themselves known to the chamber. In alphabetical order, the nominees are Clare Adamson, Claire Baker, Miles Briggs, Katy Clark and Stuart McMillan. I will suspend the meeting until 5.50. If anyone is wondering why there is a wait of an hour, it is so that the candidates can press the flesh. 16:50 Meeting suspended. 17:49 On resuming— The Presiding Officer: Good afternoon, everyone. I am glad that you are all with us once more. This will be the last voting session of the afternoon, you will be glad to know—before you can all depart the scene.”
“16:50 On resuming— Deputy Presiding Officers”
“Members may collect nomination forms from the business team in room T1.03, which is located in the chamber office. Completed nomination forms should be returned to the business team no later than quarter to five. When submitting nomination papers, candidates or their representatives may wish to provide the name of any member who will act as a scrutineer on their behalf. The Parliament will reconvene at half past four— in fact, it will not be at half past four, because that is 15 minutes before the close of nominations. It has been a long day. At quarter to five I will announce the nominations received for the positions of Deputy Presiding Officer. I will then suspend Parliament for a further period of one hour and we will reconvene at 5.45 for the election. I suspend the meeting until 4.45. 15:50 Meeting suspended.”
“Okay, folks. I have just been given some instructions about what will happen next. However, before that, I want to thank every member who has participated in this voting process. My belated congratulations to them if I have not already spoken to them about winning their own elections. I thank all those who have voted for me through thick and thin. It has been quite a stressful afternoon, as members can imagine. I am looking forward to working with every member in the chamber to take the Parliament forward. There is so much more that we can be as a Parliament than we have been in the past, and I will certainly do my utmost to work with you to take us forward. Now that we have just elected a Presiding Officer, the next step is to take nominations for the positions of Deputy Presiding Officer, which are now open.”
“I, Kenneth Gibson, do solemnly, sincerely and truly declare and affirm, that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to His Majesty King Charles, his heirs and successors, according to law.”
“To ask the Scottish Government what support it is providing to North Ayrshire health and social care partnership. (S6O-05705)”
“Kenneth Gibson has been a vigorous campaigner for his constituents, but my understanding is that CalMac’s decision is based on safety. At the moment, that is how I think that the situation will continue. The Deputy Presiding Officer: Question 2 was not lodged. Heating Oil Costs (Agriculture Sector and Rural Industries) 3.”
“Against community wishes, CalMac has reduced services to Cumbrae this summer, and it is combining an overzealous approach to health and safety with new scheduled maintenance windows. It is a textbook example of how not to bring a community with you. Islanders have also expressed concerns about CalMac’s reticence to carry out an impact assessment under the Islands (Scotland) Act 2018, even though the changes are significant. Does the minister agree that stronger guidance is needed to compel public bodies to carry out such assessments, given the Scottish Government’s commitment to genuine community involvement? Jim Fairlie: My understanding is that CalMac has continued to work closely with the community on Cumbrae to fully consider the changes and the issues that relate to loading and offloading.”
“Islanders have been clear that the tripartite structure of CalMac, CMAL and Transport Scotland needs reform in order to streamline decision making and improve accountability. That will now be for the next Parliament to deliver. Islanders will rightly expect urgency, accountability and a ferry system that is worthy of the communities that it exists to serve. 13:58”
“The deterioration of confidence in the route is real, and the emotional, financial and social toll on Arran is immense. Islanders are asking not for miracles, but simply for a reliable, functioning lifeline service. I visited Ardrossan harbour on Monday to hear about the essential redevelopment project that will begin next year as well as some of the immediate actions that Caledonian Maritime Assets Ltd is taking to improve resilience. The Scottish Government’s acquisition of Ardrossan harbour should be a landmark moment. Now that it is in public ownership, there is a clear path towards the harbour’s much-needed redevelopment. Coupled with the new tonnage that is being added to CalMac’s fleet, it should represent a turning point in west coast ferry services. However, although it is welcome, that significant investment alone is not enough.”
“According to the Isle of Arran ferry committee, the last day that Arran had a timetabled service without risk being advised was 14 February; since then, there have been constant cancellations. Arranachs have endured a level of disruption that few other communities in Scotland have faced, given the issues with the MV Glen Sannox and the seemingly constant breakdowns of the MV Caledonian Isles, even after £11 million- worth of repairs. The consequences are profound. Constituents described 40 visitors sleeping overnight in Brodick hall, cancer patients forced into exhausting and costly detours via Claonaig, families stranded for days on the mainland, empty shop shelves as freight struggles to get through, and elderly residents missing vital hospital treatments because they simply cannot rely on the ferry.”
“In Cumbrae, the community has been fighting a rearguard action against CalMac’s attempts to impose scheduled maintenance windows and increased turnaround times. The new summer timetable shows a significant reduction in sailings, which impacts both islanders and visitors on busy, sunny summer days. There is deep concern about the lack of transparency around the evidence that is used to justify those changes, such as the undisclosed turnaround time report and the limited explanation for withdrawing simultaneous loading and unloading, despite decades of safe operation. As one Millport resident put it, “It seems to me that CalMac has forgotten that they are meant to provide a service, not service a business plan.” On Arran, the situation for islanders has become intolerable.”
“I wanted to speak today about the many positive developments that are taking place in Arran and Cumbrae, such as Millport’s £48 million flood protection scheme, which has improved flood protection for more than 650 homes and businesses; the £9.17 million investment that has gone into Arran’s bus services; the reopening and refurbishment of Millport town hall, which received a £1.934 million regeneration grant from the Scottish Government; and the 18 affordable homes that were delivered as part of the Rowarden affordable housing project. Instead, I will focus on the issue that influences every aspect of island life—the ferries. Both communities that I represent are beyond exasperation with the current situation—and with CalMac Ferries, for that matter.”
“I wish her all the best for her future endeavours after she catches the midnight express. I congratulate Jamie Halcro Johnston on securing the debate. Scotland’s islands are truly remarkable places. Our island communities are consistently identified as being among our happiest communities and the best in which to grow old or raise children. As MSP for a constituency that includes Arran and Cumbrae, I know at first hand the outsized contribution that both places make to our economy, culture and natural heritage.”
“Thank you, Presiding Officer. Since this will be my last speech of session 6, I thank you and the Presiding Officer team for your patience and for the fair and courteous manner in which you have presided over proceedings of this Parliament. As the convener of the Finance and Public Administration Committee, I also record my thanks to the committee’s members and clerking team. The committee has won multiple awards and has built a formidable reputation, and none of that would have been possible without the hard work and dedication of its clerks and the collegiate working by colleagues. I note that her speech today will be the cabinet secretary’s last response to a debate. I find it sad that Mairi Gougeon is leaving Parliament at such a young age, after a mere decade in this place— eight years in Government and five years in Cabinet.”
“I ask the next Scottish Government to urge its UK counterpart to change Link’s inflexible rules, which prevent Largs and other towns from having a banking hub, and to extend the FCA’s powers to access to wider banking services. 18:33”
“At the time, Labour argued that that was wrong and that access to banking services, and not only to cash, should be available; yet, in 20 months of a Labour Government, there has been very little to suggest that that omission will be rectified—surprise, surprise. When asked about that in the House of Commons last month, Lucy Rigby MP, the Economic Secretary to the Treasury, vaguely promised to “keep these issues under review”.—[Official Report, House of Commons, 24 February 2026; Vol 781, c 111WH.] It is clear that banking decisions taken at Westminster are inadequate for Scotland’s needs and especially, but not exclusively, for the needs of rural communities, which have endured bank branch closures at an alarming rate. The FCA will undertake a post-implementation review of the access-to-cash regime later this year.”
“When I met Link’s chief corporate affairs officer here, at Holyrood, he explained how Link defines an area by mapping the high street to understand who is likely to rely on a hub for cash services and which businesses would be affected by any gap in those services. The remit is limited to whether access to cash is guaranteed and does not consider wider banking services. The UK Tory Government’s Financial Services and Markets Act 2023 gave the Financial Conduct Authority responsibility for maintaining access to cash deposit and withdrawal but, crucially, not access to banking services.”
“Banks argue that the industry has changed and point to their online services, but many people feel safer and more confident with in-person banking, not least due to understandable fears about online scams and fraud. Customer behaviour has changed in recent years, prompted by the banks themselves, which is why banking hubs that offer easy access to cash and basic banking services are often seen as a solution. Those hubs also provide a private space where customers can talk face to face with staff about more complicated banking inquiries. Unfortunately, I have yet to see a banking hub in my constituency, despite, for years, having made the case to Link for establishing such a hub.”
“That will also impact customers from the neighbouring communities of Millport, Fairlie, Skelmorlie and West Kilbride. The decision leaves my constituency with only one remaining mainland bank branch, the Bank of Scotland in Saltcoats, which shows the decline in the number of bank branches across Scotland’s towns in recent years. Cash hubs are undoubtedly welcome, and I have been assured by Link that the services available will be the same as those at a Post Office, including the ability to deposit and withdraw cash and to pay utility bills. However, that is no substitute for the high-quality, face-to-face advice provided by bank employees, who can offer complex mortgage discussions and give investment, financial and business advice.”
“As Clare Haughey mentioned, Lloyds has announced that another 11 branches will close this summer, and I am sure that, every time such announcements are made, colleagues across the chamber anxiously check to see whether their constituency will lose yet another valued branch that local people and businesses rely on. It is fitting, from my perspective, that we are debating the issue today, because the final bank branch in Largs was set to disappear from the town’s main street tomorrow. In December, it was given a stay of execution until 29 July, to allow time for a new cash hub to be set up in the town. Although that is welcome, it does not change the fact that Largs—a town with more than 11,000 inhabitants, including many elderly residents—will soon be without a bank branch.”
“I congratulate my colleague Clare Haughey on bringing this important and timely debate to the chamber and on all the work that she is doing to save the Bank of Scotland branch in Rutherglen. I, too, pay tribute to Richard Lochhead, the minister who will respond to the debate and a colleague I have known and respected for decades. This will be Richard’s final speech after 27 years here, having spent 19 years in the Government, including nine in the Cabinet. Richard was very ill with sepsis just a couple of years ago. I wish that diligent and unassuming public servant all the best in whatever he does next. When I last spoke here about bank branch closures, on 30 October, I remarked that high street branches were disappearing “at an alarming rate”. Unfortunately, there is no sign that that trend is being reversed.”
“Amendment 28 disagreed to. 16:00 Amendment 29 moved—[Stephen Kerr]. The Deputy Presiding Officer: The question is, that amendment 29 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Deputy Presiding Officer: There will be a division. The vote is closed.”
“For Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con) Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Carlaw, Jackson (Eastwood) (Con) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Findlay, Russell (West Scotland) (Con) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con) Golden, Maurice (North East Scotland) (Con) Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con) Gulhane, Sandesh (Glasgow) (Con) Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Hoy, Craig (South Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Stephen (Central Scotland) (Con) Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con) McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Webber, Sue (Lothian) (Con) White, Tess (North East Scotland) (Con) Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con) Against Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Callaghan, Stephanie (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Ind) Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Don-Innes, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Ind) Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (Ind) Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP) Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (LD) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab) Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green) Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP) Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab) Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD) Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Rowley, Alex (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Russell, Davy (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (Lab) Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green) Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP) Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP) Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab) Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab) Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD) Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP) The Deputy Presiding Officer: The result of the division is: For 27, Against 83, Abstentions 0.”
“Stephen Kerr: I have no further comments to add, although I am not entirely sure that I was all that speechless. The Deputy Presiding Officer: The question is, that amendment 28 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Deputy Presiding Officer: There will be a division.”
“However, as with amendment 28, that is not necessary—it is simply a new reporting requirement, but duplicating what is already provided for by the 2024 act. I repeat my commitment to seek to address those issues in amended VisitScotland guidance. Amendment 31 would require a local authority to consider, as part of each three-year review of the operation of a scheme, whether the scheme should be modified or revoked. Mr Kerr raised that issue at stage 2, and I undertook to discuss it with him. We had a constructive discussion on that, and I recognise that there is benefit in a local authority considering whether a scheme should be revoked at that review stage. Therefore, the Government will support amendment 31. The Deputy Presiding Officer: I call Stephen Kerr to wind up and press or withdraw amendment 28.”
“Amendment 29 would require a first report on the impact of levy funds on tourist numbers, length of stay and viability of tourism businesses be prepared two years after a scheme goes live, and amendment 30 would require that a first report be prepared three years after the scheme goes live. Such a report would then be published annually. The amendments are intended to account for data lag. Amendments 29 and 30 seek the same information as amendment 28 but in a different way. They would create a new reporting duty for local authorities and require them to report on the specific issues separately from the section 20 annual reports under the 2024 act. The amendments would allow the two reports to be combined and published together. Imposing different objectives and reporting periods might make that difficult to work with in practice.”
“If relevant, the authority’s annual report on the scheme can already include an assessment of impact on tourist numbers, length of stay and viability of tourism businesses. I appreciate the intention behind the amendment. As I indicated at stage 2, and when I met Mr Kerr, I would be happy to explore whether the statutory guidance provided by VisitScotland for local authorities could be revised to emphasise that detail, where robust data is available. Amendments 29 and 30 would introduce separate requirements for local authorities to report on the use of net proceeds. Both have similar intent but would apply to different timescales.”
“That is similar to an amendment that Mr Kerr lodged at stage 2. When I met him recently to talk about that and other amendments, we discussed issues around availability and data lag, and the fact that it could be difficult to identify causality of changes. Could a change in length of stay be down to the introduction of the levy or to wider economic factors? I welcome that Mr Kerr has recognised the issue of data availability in this iteration of his amendment. However, it does not address the key point that I made at stage 2: the amendment is not necessary. Section 13 of the Visitor Levy (Scotland) Act 2024 requires a local authority to prepare and publicise how it intends to measure and report on the achievement of a scheme’s objectives.”
“If it is not, the legislation should encourage honesty rather than inertia. The amendments are not hostile to the principle of a visitor levy. They are about accountability, transparency and evidence. If the levy is to endure, those aspects will matter. For those reasons, I encourage colleagues to support amendments 28 to 31. I move amendment 28. Ivan McKee: I do not know whether that was John Mason’s last contribution in the chamber before he retires, but seeing him render Stephen Kerr momentarily speechless was a sight to behold. Amendment 28 would require that a local authority’s annual report on a visitor levy scheme include information on how the use of levy proceeds has impacted on visitor numbers, length of stay and the viability of tourism businesses, where such information is available.”
“Are councillors not best placed to do that job, rather than the Parliament passing amendments to tell them what to do? The Deputy Presiding Officer: I would be grateful if Stephen Kerr could start to wind up. Stephen Kerr: That is not what my amendments seek to do. They are simply a way of doing what I believe good legislation should always do: answer the question, “Has this made a positive or a negative difference?” It is not unrealistic for that to be built into every piece of legislation that we pass, because if we are sitting here creating laws that have no effect, have a negative effect or produce unintended consequences, what is the point? That is all that my amendments seek to do. In conclusion, my proposal for a review is common sense. If the levy is working well, the review will confirm that.”
“Finally, where a local authority finds that the scheme should be modified or revoked, it will need to set that out in a report that is to be published by it under section 21(2) of the 2024 act. In other words, the review must be a genuine test—not a procedural exercise or a box to be ticked, but a moment when an authority asks whether the scheme is still justified. That seems to me to be simple common sense. Mark Griffin: The Scottish Government is not well known for devolving power to local authorities or handing powers to other places. The bill is an example of that. It seems that the whole package of Conservative amendments is trying to pull back that power. In particular, the amendments in the group almost tell councillors how to do their jobs when analysing the levy that they would design and introduce.”