Dr Andrew Murrison
MP for South West Wiltshire · Conservative · United Kingdom
“It is good to hear that the Government plan to replenish the dwindling stocks of Patriot missiles in Ukraine, which I suspect it will need this winter. However, Patriot is low volume and high cost. What the Ukrainians need is high volume and low cost.”
“Currently, the Royal Navy has an offshore patrol vessel permanently stationed in the Falkland Islands, but given the threat that is being faced and our need to demonstrate resolve—the sort of thing that, sadly, we did not demonstrate in the early 1980s, which led to miscalculation—will the Minister consider speaking to her MOD colleagues…”
“Since the Foreign Secretary is not going to get the co-operation, fulsome or otherwise, of the Israeli state in differentiating goods and services made in the settlements from those that are assembled, repackaged, produced and grown in Israel itself, how is he going to distinguish the one from the other?”
“The Government insisted on applying the social time preference rate to the disastrous Chagos deal to make an appalling deal look slightly better.”
“Will the First Secretary of State’s exercise in delivering democracy and local accountability and empowering local people include a look at large organisations that cannot be described as governmental or as quangos but that nevertheless exist firmly within the public domain, are established by statute, serve the public and are big employe…”
“I congratulate the Government on the hiring of Alistair Burt—he is a good hire and will do great things for some of these most complex of cases—but does the Minister agree that many of these cases are extremely difficult and exceptionally traumatic, and that it is far better to prevent them happening in the first place?”
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“Mrs Zaghari-Ratcliffe’s family have told us that she was admitted to a psychiatric ward in the Imam Khomeini public hospital on Monday. Her family have yet to be allowed to visit her or to make a phone call. We are lobbying the Iranian authorities to ensure that her family are able to visit as soon as possible, as well as continuing to lobby for consular access, so that we can check on her care as a matter of urgency. We remain in close contact with her family in Tehran and with Richard Ratcliffe in London. The Foreign Secretary spoke to the Iranian Foreign Minister on Saturday 13 July and raised Mrs Zaghari-Ratcliffe’s case and those of other dual nationals detained in Iran. The Foreign Secretary made it clear, as he has in public, that innocent people in prison must not be used as diplomatic leverage and called for their release.”
“Were we to approach something that looks like normality in relation to our access to this particular piece, all sorts of things would be possible. I sincerely urge our interlocutors in Tehran to approach this on the basis of decency and humanity so that Nazanin can be given the treatment that she undoubtedly requires, but in a proper setting and using proper norms and practices.”
“Lady’s description is completely unacceptable, and it is completely contrary to any international norms. She will understand that the Iranian system is multifarious, and we are concerned about exactly who is controlling the situation as far as Nazanin is concerned. I appeal to the better nature of people in Tehran to do what is right for Nazanin—that is vital. The hon. Lady touches on Grace 1, and she will anticipate my answer, which is that this is primarily a matter for the Gibraltarian authorities, who are exercising a matter of law under EU sanctions. I do not believe the two cases are directly linked. However, we certainly need to ensure there is de-escalation in relation to our interaction with Iran, in Gibraltar and in the Gulf. When I visited Tehran recently, de-escalation was absolutely my message.”
“The hon. Lady’s question and the way in which she has put her remarks today do her great credit, and the work she does for her constituent is admirable. We are, of course, seeking consular access. We have sought consular access from the beginning of this case. We believe that, as circumstances have changed, consular access now needs to be granted urgently. More importantly, we want to ensure that Nazanin gets access to her family. The hon. Lady will be in contact with the family, as are we, and it is the best way we have of determining Nazanin’s status right now. Indeed, it would be cruel to deny this lady, in a psychiatric ward of a public hospital, access to her family, which must happen immediately. I deplore the maltreatment of prisoners, wherever it occurs. The hon.”
“Iran must look at this in a sympathetic light and do what is right, proper and humane in respect of Nazanin, particularly as she has now been moved to the Imam Khomeini Hospital, where she is being treated. We want to know how she is being treated, and whether she is being given the right treatment and in what context. Above all, she must have access to her family, but she must also have consular access, through which we will be able to make a better judgment on where we are.”
“My hon. Friend will understand that the tools in our toolbox are somewhat limited. Iran is an independent and proud nation that has its own view of its place in the world, and it requires us to show some respect, but we need to deplore the things it is doing in respect of the victims of human rights abuses, which are particular acute in Iran. The UK Government clearly use every opportunity to impress upon Iran how unsatisfactory we regard its approach to human rights to be. However, we also need to ensure that Nazanin comes home, which is our principal priority in this matter. I appeal to Iran, not least because its reputation in this country is being severely damaged, to do the decent thing.”
“Lady asks how close we are to the supreme leader and, again, she well knows, because she is a student of these things, that access to the supreme leader is exceptionally difficult. We have spoken to President Rouhani, and we routinely engage with our ministerial interlocutors, Minister Zarif and, in my case, Minister Araghchi, and we will continue to do so. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Iran, of course, is somewhat separate from the IRGC, and it is important to reiterate that we are ensuring the IRGC gets the message that the eyes of the world are on Iran in respect of this case and, if it continues to behave in this way, it will trample all over the good opinion that international observers might have, even now, of Iran—it will do Iran and its people no good at all.”
“The right hon. Lady has elegantly dissected the Iranian state in a very few minutes, and she probably puts her finger on it. Of course, anybody with any experience of Iran will know that there are many Irans, as I touched on in my opening remarks. We are, of course, concerned by any access that the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps has to this particular case. I would say, though, that the IRGC does care about its reputation. It certainly cares about its country’s reputation, and so does the supreme leader. That reputation hangs in the balance. The generosity and humanity with which Iran has historically been associated would be amply demonstrated if Iran were to do the right thing in respect of Nazanin. I urge it to do that, if not on Nazanin’s behalf, on behalf of Iran’s reputation, which is rightly important to it. The right hon.”
“He can be sure that, one way or the other, Nazanin will be at the forefront of the mind of whoever is successful in this contest next week.”
“I thank the hon. Gentleman for that. Nazanin has been transferred to a public hospital. Nazanin certainly does need medical treatment, and we have been calling for that for a very long time. If she does not get the treatment she requires, if she is abused in hospital or if the purpose of transferring her to hospital is to abuse her further than has been the case already, that would be a cause for utter condemnation, as would any forced confession. We have flagged that up pretty well today. In the event that a confession is obtained from Nazanin, the international community is perfectly entitled to question it, to put it mildly. The hon. Gentleman asked me to establish the top priorities of the incoming Prime Minister.”
“Of course, other issues prey on the minds of those in the UN right now in respect of Iran, and its behaviour and destabilising actions in the wider Gulf region, and I rather suspect that in further questioning this morning we might return to those.”
“We have made it very clear that this is not acceptable, to put it mildly. I do not think the international community can be left in any doubt as to the importance we place on this and the views of like-minded countries in respect of it. I appeal to Iran just to consider what this is doing to its reputation. Nazanin has been wrongly imprisoned. She has been maltreated in an extremely serious way, as have her family. The right thing to do now is to reunite her with her family, as a minimum, to ensure that they have immediate access to Nazanin and that they are able to make phone calls to her, so that we can try to get to the bottom of exactly what is happening and whether she is getting the treatment we have long been calling for.”
“They have a sense of frustration in respect of this needing to be up and running, so that we can start doing business through it and they can get some of what they want, based around the necessities of daily life, which people in Iran at the moment are being deprived of because of sanctions. I am hopeful that this will work and that in the next few days and very few weeks INSTEX will be up and running. Iran will therefore see that good behaviour can be rewarded and in the fullness of time this can be used to perhaps reintroduce, in a small way, Iran to a proper international discourse and dialogue, which at the moment I am afraid is severely bruised.”
“I thank the hon. Lady for her question and I look forward to meeting her tomorrow. I hope that the JCPOA—Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action—is capable of being advanced; I hope that we are not seeing the end of it. It is a credible mechanism for encouraging Iran to trade properly with the west, and a lot falls from that. She will know that the special purpose vehicle, INSTEX, created by the E3, which was discussed by my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary with our interlocutors at the Foreign Affairs Council on Monday, is about to go live. I discussed it when I was in Tehran recently with my interlocutors.”
“It is very high-profile—much more so than the other cases we are currently dealing with—and if Iran can make progress with this case in the way I have described, its reputation, which is sadly not great among the international community at the moment, will improve significantly. It can do itself a whole lot of good by adopting a far more positive and humane approach to this particular case, and I urge it to do so.”
“I entirely agree with my hon. Friend. He refers to other dual nationals whom we are concerned about; we have to be a little careful, because not all the families of those dual nationals seek to advance cases publicly, and we must be led by them and their desires in how we approach this issue. It is a sensitive and individual matter, and we need to ensure that our approach to each of those cases is bespoke. That is what we will continue to do. On Iran’s overall reputation not only in this country but in other countries, because this will involve other countries, too, I would say that now is the time to take a different approach to this particular case.”
“I thank the hon. Lady for her comments. I do not anticipate moving—touch wood—and she can be absolutely sure that this issue is right at the top of my list of priorities. Like the Vicar of Bray, come what may I hope very much that I will be here ensuring that this remains absolutely top priority, along with other dual national cases. For the reasons I have described, this case has particular poignancy, and the hon. Lady can be sure that I will continue to do what I can with my Iranian interlocutors to bring it to a satisfactory conclusion.”
“Believe me, it is a compliment; I am paying the hon. Gentleman a compliment, noting his previous occupation. He makes a serious suggestion that is worth considering by all involved in this case. We have lost no opportunity to raise these dual national cases with those to whom we have been given access, at ministerial level and other levels, over the course of this sorry saga, and we will continue to do so. Of course, people need to articulate their concerns, and that is not confined to Ministers. National leaders of various sorts have commented on this case, and if they used any influence they can with their contacts in Tehran, that would be a very positive thing. I welcome the hon. Gentleman’s suggestion.”
“I hope very much that the Archbishop of Canterbury is listening to the hon. Gentleman, and that perhaps he might consider whether he or other faith leaders have a role to play in this matter. I am not sure whether the established Church is the best vehicle, but it is universally recognised as being positive and capable of talking to people of all faiths and none. My view on this matter is that dialogue is necessary, notwithstanding the nature of the individuals who we know are intimately connected with this case in Tehran and who have not in the past shown themselves to be the masters of dialogue.”
“It would certainly be open to organisations that are held in some esteem in Tehran to speak to any interlocutors they are able to identify and have access to in Iran, in order to put pressure on where they can and to bring their good counsel to bear in respect of this case and other cases relating to dual nationals.”
“I am always open to suggestion; however, having considered the matter in respect of the Church of England in the few minutes I have had to do so, I think we need to be a little bit careful, because Iran is inherently suspicious of this country. If the hon. Lady doubts that, perhaps she might like to refer to Jack Straw’s excellent book that has just been published; I commend it to all right hon. and hon. Members who take an interest in these matters. There is a long-standing suspicion of this country in Tehran, and there will be a suspicion of any initiative that is prompted or engineered by the UK Government.”
“It is not as if one were approaching a western liberal democracy; I fear things operate very differently in Tehran.”
“I am confident that the issue has been a high priority for the Prime Minister. She has spoken to President Rouhani about it. It is a high priority for my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary, who is frequently in touch with his interlocutors in the matter. It is also, and will continue to be, a high priority for me, as I have explained. Often, the issue with Iran is getting access. It cannot be taken for granted that access will be automatically welcomed, or indeed provided. I very much hope, however, that we will continue to be able to press the case with those who are in a position to influence the outcome. I have described how it is sometimes difficult to identify those who are in a position to make a decision or determination on the matter.”
“As the hon. Lady will know, each asylum case is treated on its own merits in the light of prevailing circumstances, so I obviously cannot comment, because I do not know the individual cases to which she refers. I do know, however, that each one is treated individually by the Home Office and that a determination is made according to the perceived risk that they face, which will clearly alter with time.”
“I know that my right hon. Friends the Members for Uxbridge and South Ruislip (Boris Johnson) and for South West Surrey (Mr Hunt) are greatly exercised by this case. I assure the hon. Lady that they are extremely well read into it now. I am absolutely confident that, whatever the outcome next week, the Prime Minister will treat the case with the priority that I think it deserves. I reassure her, however, that I shall be there, inshallah, prompting them to ensure that the matter has the highest priority.”
“I share the hon. Lady’s frustration—I really do. I want this brought to a conclusion as soon as possible. She has to appreciate, though, that the United Kingdom has a limited number of tools in its toolbox, which is part of our frustration. I would love to be able to resolve it tomorrow, but all we can do is what we do diplomatically, which is to put pressure on our interlocutors and try to explain to them what the benefits are, not only for the individuals concerned, but for the country concerned, of bringing it to a satisfactory resolution. It is truly a win-win situation—it is clearly a win for Nazanin and her family that she should be released as soon as possible, and it is a win for the reputation of Iran.”
“Of course I agree with my right hon. Friend. I recall the remarks that you made a few minutes ago, Mr Speaker, about how this sort of issue sees the House is acting at its best, that we are not being partisan and that we are clearly focused on the interests of Nazanin and other dual nationals. That is where we need to be focused. I urge right hon. and hon. Members to approach these matters in that light and in the manner to which you rightly alluded, Mr Speaker.”
“I am not sure I would associate myself with the sense of security to which the hon. Gentleman refers, but I assure him that the matter is right at the top of the priorities of the Department that I have the honour of being a Minister in. That will endure. I have sought to explain to the House that, whatever the outcome next week, I am confident that it will continue to be a high priority for No. 10.”
“I beg to move, That the Committee has considered the draft International Bank for Reconstruction and Development (General Capital Increase) Order 2019.”
“Our participation in them will support us in continuing to stand proud as a leader in backing and improving the multilateral rules-based system and demonstrate value for money for UK taxpayers.”
“By June 2023, the IBRD will increase the proportion of its projects that support gender equality to 55%, from 42% now. The IFC will quadruple the amount of IFC financing dedicated to women and women-led small and medium-sized enterprises by 2030. Finally, the proposed increases will deliver a range of other enhancements in value for money, including both the IBRD and the IFC committing to deliver further internal efficiencies and ensuring that wealthier countries will pay more to borrow from the IBRD. In addition, the shifts in shareholding in the capital increases will be expected to support the increased legitimacy of the institutions in the eyes of developing countries. These capital increases will support Britain’s development, prosperity and security objectives.”
“Specifically, the capital increases will, first, support an increased focus on tackling climate change, with the share of projects with climate benefits increasing to an average of at least 30% by June 2023 for the IBRD and to 35% by June 2030 for the IFC. That compares with previous World Bank Group-wide ambitions of 28% by June 2020. The increases will also assist an increased focus on support for poor and fragile countries where development needs and security benefits are greatest. The IBRD will boost its share of support to its poorer clients to 70% of its total financial support, compared with 63% historically. The IFC will increase its support for the very poorest countries and fragile countries to 40% of its total support by 2030, compared to a baseline of 24%. The increases will support a greater focus on gender equality.”
“The financial strength of the IBRD and the IFC allows them to access finance at low interest rates and use that to support clients, in return for interest that can be channelled back as future investment. They have taken the $19 billion of total shareholder contributions and used it to provide $900 billion of development finance. The World Bank Group shares UK norms and values and helps to promote them globally. The Government’s 2016 multilateral development review rated the IBRD and the IFC as “very good” and “good” respectively for their match with UK priorities and organisational strength. The capital increases include policy and financing commitments that are expected to enhance their impact and support the United Kingdom’s interests.”
“That is to be paid in by shareholders through the subscription of additional shares allocated to them through two kinds of capital increases for each institution: general capital increases, in which shares are allocated in line with existing shareholdings, and selective capital increases, in which shares are allocated in proportions that do not match current shareholdings, resulting in a shift in relative shareholding and voting power. The contributions expected from the United Kingdom, which are set out in the draft orders, are consistent with the shares we were allocated in the capital increases. Secondly, on the benefits, the World Bank Group is expected to play an important role in addressing the estimated $2.5 trillion of investment required every year to meet the sustainable development goals.”
“I will explain that a little, starting with financial need. Historically low interest rates reduced the returns from the IBRD’s loans, reducing its capacity to support development financing. Although the IFC has increased its financing, including in poorer and more fragile countries, it is reaching the limits of what it can do without more support from its shareholders. On the second factor, the World Bank Group is seeking to enhance the participation of developing countries in its decision making by increasing their shareholding and voting power, consistent with their growing economic weight and contributions to development. In response, the World Bank Group proposed a package of $13 billion of additional capital: $7.5 billion for the IBRD and $5.5 billion for the IFC.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Sharma, particularly given the expert nature of the Committee. The draft orders seek Parliament’s consent for the UK Government to make payments to two institutions of the World Bank Group: the IBRD, which provides financial and advisory support to middle-income and creditworthy low-income countries, and the IFC, which provides financial and advisory support to the private sector in developing countries. I will briefly set out the rationale and expected benefits of those contributions before dealing with any wider questions the Committee has. First, on the rationale, the UK contributions are part of a wider package of additional shareholder support. That support is driven by two factors: financial need, and the need to make a shift in shareholding to enhance governance.”
“Draft International Bank for Reconstruction and Development (Selective Capital Increase) Order 2019 Resolved, That the Committee has considered the draft International Bank for Reconstruction and Development (Selective Capital Increase) Order 2019. —(Dr Murrison.) Draft International Finance Corporation (General Capital Increase) Order 2019 Resolved, That the Committee has considered the draft International Finance Corporation (General Capital Increase) Order 2019. —(Dr Murrison .)”
“We are all in this together, and we need to have some tangible way of persuading our middle-income partners and friends to develop their economies that in a way that protects our imperatives too, which have to do very largely with climate change and the other things I have described. I think I have covered most of the points made. I will ask my officials to go through the record to see whether I have missed anything, and if I have, I will write to hon. Members. Question put and agreed to. Resolved, That the Committee has considered the draft International Bank for Reconstruction and Development (General Capital Increase) Order 2019.”
“My defensive line—which, sadly, I will deploy, although he forgot to mention it—is that that is historical disbursement. I hope he has been reassured that our focus on climate change in the recent process makes that kind of expenditure at that scale far less likely to happen, although I completely understand the often differing imperatives of many of the countries with which we engage in this work. That is a debate for another day, but he who pays the piper calls the tune, and it is important that global public goods are satisfied by this kind of expenditure. There are those who say, citing in particular China and India, “What are we doing spending all this money on middle-income countries?” Again, that is a debate for another time and place, but global public goods, as the name suggests, are global.”
“The UK was assessed as “largely compliant” under that initiative, which I personally found rather disappointing, but there it is. Clearly, tax avoidance is of concern to the World Bank Group, and we will ensure through our seat on the boards of both the bodies in the group that tax avoidance and other forms of strange accounting practices, if I may put it in such terms, are expunged from this international multilateral organisation. I am running through all my points, but I still have “power stations” written down. I think it is intended to be a response to the comments of the hon. Member for Nottingham North on climate change. I thought that he might mention the coal-fired power station in Gujarat, which historically has been funded through the World Bank Group, through those initiatives.”
“If we are contributing so much, we need to have a seat at the table.” None the less, we have we have expressed the view that the poorer countries need to have a bigger say in how the money is disbursed. That will be the case, and he is correct to say that that is the intention of the selective capital increases, which dilute the influence that countries such as Britain, France and America have on the decisions. The hon. Gentleman is quite right to comment on tax avoidance. The IFC reviews the tax arrangements of its clients to ensure that any offshore financial centres used by those clients are assessed as compliant or largely compliant with the OECD global forum standards on tax transparency and exchange of information.”
“Gentleman would expect, and I would demand, that we use our seats on the boards of both those bodies to scrutinise carefully how money is spent, given the scope, and to ensure as far as we can that the expenditure accords with our own national priorities—I think he agrees with that, which is reassuring—and in particular our sense that more needs to be spent on the world’s poorest, on climate change and on gender equality. Those are clear UK values and norms which, given the scale of our contribution and that of like-minded partners, we expect to be expressed in how the money is disbursed. The hon. Gentleman is right to mention governance, and correct to say that historically it has been heavily weighted towards the wealthier nations—those who are contributing. I suspect that those wealthier nations would say, “Hang on a bit.”
“That deals with his final point, on transparency, with which I agree entirely. The IFC joined the International Aid Transparency Initiative in January 2017—so relatively recently—partially as a result of concerns that expressed about that part of the World Bank Group, to which the hon. Member for Nottingham North referred. I take that as a good sign. Since all that stuff is meant to be published, I look forward to him being able to scrutinise that particular piece of public expenditure much more closely than has been the case historically. The hon.”
“Member for Nottingham North is right to point out that we need to focus on impact, and he knows that DFID is absolutely focused on getting the maximum effect from our spend of 0.7% of GNP. Obviously, all of that is official development assistance, obviously. The institutions in the World Bank Group feature well in the multilateral agency review that we are required to conduct. I share the hon. Gentleman’s concern about the focus on the poorest, which is why we have ensured in this matter that more money as a proportion of the whole will be spent on fragile states, as I made clear in my opening remarks. The same is true regarding gender. We will continue to review that through the mechanisms available to us and through the International Aid Transparency Initiative, with which he will be familiar.”
“It is slightly disappointing that we have had no parliamentary interest following the statement in April 2018. I will go through the hon. Gentleman’s points. The money will be called down at some point in the future, having been approved by the IFC. That is what we are doing now. We are approving the spend now, but technically that can be signed over at the point at which it is called down by the World Bank Group. He will forgive me if we dispense with this matter—as the hon. Member for Nottingham North said, it is largely uncontroversial, given that we have not had any criticism of this since April 2018—together with the order. I turn now to the points made by the Labour spokesman, and probably one or two of the points made by the spokesman for the Scottish National party. The hon.”
“To deal with that last point, the ministerial position on this was tabled in April 2018, and we have received no questions on this matter at all. Although I agree with the hon. Member for Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch East, who defines himself as a geeky lawyer—I do not think he is—I am perhaps disappointed that we have not had more interest in this matter, and I share his concern in that respect. We are dealing with very large sums of public money. As the Minister in the hot seat, I am confident that this money is being disbursed appropriately, in accordance with our legislation and with the intention to get the maximum effect for the taxpayer’s pound; none the less, it is the job of this place to scrutinise such measures closely.”
“The whole point is to encourage others to pledge and commit—the two are slightly different—generous funds aimed at dealing with the healthcare issues we all struggle with, because we are all in this together, particularly in relation to infectious disease. That point has been made by a number of right hon. and hon. Members, because infectious diseases respect no borders. Having started on a positive note, may I introduce an element of gloom? Strategic development goal 3 and the 17 development goals related to it are not on track to be successfully rolled out. Universal health coverage is an aspiration, but it is not secure; the glass is indeed half empty. I congratulate my right hon. Friend the Member for North East Bedfordshire (Alistair Burt). It is ironic that I am here potentially answering for decisions that he made in Government.”
“I congratulate all involved today on an excellent debate. It is timely because on 23 September we will be discussing universal health coverage at the high-level meeting in New York. I am pleased to have heard almost universal praise from across the House for the advance declaration that the UK has made in relation to the Global Fund. I am proud of that, and I hope everybody here is proud of it too. Not only is it a significant sum of money and an uplift to what we were spending before, but when taken with the other Global Funds, it propels us to the top of the league table of international development, particularly relating to healthcare. It is more important still because it is advance notification.”
“Very often, there is a temptation for politicians to roll out shiny things that they can demonstrate to their constituents. That generally means hospitals, and hospitals are great things, but they may not be the right thing in low and middle-income countries.”
“That is something many of the contributions have touched on one way or another. I have been struck by the level of support for an holistic approach to delivering universal healthcare. We have talked about immunisation and about the mistake we would be making if we simply imagined that going around the world offering people vaccinations and inoculations would be “job done”. It really would not be. Those interventions would be treated with a great deal of suspicion by communities, as they are at the moment, if that were all we were offering. It has to be much more than that; it truly has to be integrated. I look forward to making this point loud and clear in September in New York. On a broader theme, as I have gone around the world, I have been struck by the roll-out of healthcare systems.”