Jamie Stone
MP for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross · Liberal Democrat · United Kingdom
“While I am very fond of the hon. Member for Moray West, Nairn and Strathspey (Graham Leadbitter), the House will not be surprised to hear that I do not hang on his every word.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Dr Murrison. I congratulate the hon. Member for Lichfield (Dave Robertson), my good friend and colleague on the Petitions Committee, on his excellent introduction to this debate.”
“It is not really pertinent to the Minister, but those fledgling and now grown-up companies would not have come into being had it not been for a key decision taken by Harold Wilson’s Labour Government in the 1960s, which was to put in place the Highlands and Islands Development Board.”
“My point is that these companies actually teach vital local skills that would not otherwise be taught, create jobs in some of the remotest areas of the United Kingdom and provide a tourist product, which is absolutely crucial when it comes to visitors. When people, including right hon. and hon.”
“Just to be absolutely tidy, could I make a plea on behalf of those families where the member is deceased but the estate still has a claim? There is sometimes, possibly wrongly, an impression that these people are put to the back of the queue. Could I have an assurance that that would not be the case?”
“I want to raise the case of Hughie Stirling from Ullapool. He was on board a flotilla proceeding to Gaza with aid when the Israelis intercepted them in international waters and took them into custody. His partner tells me that he and others were shockingly mistreated—we are talking about physical abuse and even being beaten up.”
The complete record
Every one of 600 lines we hold for Jamie Stone, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 12 of 12.
“At the beginning of my contribution, I outlined the success story that is the work of Councillor Maureen Ross to establish a post office in Balintore. I know from having talked to the good lady that she is thinking of increasing the opening hours and has thoughts on banking, as we have no bank branches in the villages at all. I suggest to the Minister that it might be constructive if perhaps some officials from his Department went up there and talked to Councillor Ross, and saw what a good idea that would be.”
“Some of the finest seed potatoes are grown in the north of Scotland. Right now, the seed potato farmers are worried sick, because a lot of their crop is below water. That also poses a question mark over the supply of seed for next year. I know that this matter is devolved, but as the Minister is a farmer will he put the maximum encouragement in the direction of the Scottish Government to please help the farmers?”
“Let us get this exactly right: over the next four years, police numbers in Scotland are due to fall by 2,000. The highlands and islands police chief has said that “something has to give.” I had thought that Barnett consequentials would lead to an increase in Scotland’s police numbers rather than a decrease. When it comes to antisocial behaviour, what a grim message this is for some of the most vulnerable in society.”
“8. Whether he has held recent discussions with Cabinet colleagues and the Scottish Government on increasing co-operation between NHS England and NHS Scotland.”
“If someone is sick and their life is in danger, is it not the case that the border between Scotland and England should not get in the way of the best possible health outcome?”
“I rise as a convinced devolutionist. In fact, I think I am the only Member of this place whose signature is on the Claim of Right for Scotland. As and when a new law is agreed in Edinburgh or Cardiff, say, what mechanism is in place to ensure that any such new law will not disrupt either England or other parts of the United Kingdom?”
“I hope that my grandchildren, sitting there with their iPads, have been told as much as possible by their teachers, my daughter and my son-in-law about what to do and what not to do. That leads me on to the huge importance of the parent being able, where necessary, to intervene rapidly, because this has to be done damned quickly. If it looks like they are going down a black hole, we want to stop that right away. A kid could see something horrid that could damage them for life—it could be that bad.”
“I welcome the addition of new offences, such as encouraging self-harm and intimate image abuse. A future Bill might be needed to set out the thresholds for the prosecution of non-fatal self-harm. We may also need further work on the intent requirement for cyber-flashing, and on whether Ofcom can introduce such requirements. I am encouraged by what we have heard from the Minister. We would also have liked to see more movement on risk assessment, as terms of service should be subject to a mandatory risk assessment. My party remains unconvinced that we have got to grips with the metaverse—this terrifying new thing that has come at us. I think there is work to be done on that, and we will see what happens in the future. As others have said, education is crucial.”
“Member for Aberdeen North (Kirsty Blackman) both mentioned that, and it has been encouraging to see how the Bill has come together. However, as others have said, it has taken a long time and there have been a lot of delays. Perhaps that was unavoidable, but it is regrettable. It has been difficult for the Government to get the Bill to where it is today, and the trouble is that the delays mean there will probably be more victims before the Bill is enacted. We see before us a much-changed Bill, and I thank the Lords for their 150 amendments. They have put in a lot of hard work, as others have said. The Secretary of State’s powers worry my party and me, and I wonder whether the Bill still fails to tackle harmful activity effectively. Perhaps better things could be done, but we are where we are.”
“It is very kind of you to call me to speak, Mr Deputy Speaker. I apologise to your good self, to the Minister and to the House for arriving rather tardily. My daughter and her husband have been staying with me over the past few days. When I get up to make my wife and myself an early-morning cup of tea, I find my two grandchildren sitting in the kitchen with their iPads, which does not half bring home the dangers. I look at them and think, “Gosh, I hope there is security, because they are just little kids.” I worry about that kind of thing. As everyone has said, keeping children safe is ever more important. The Bill’s progress shows some of the best aspects of this place and the other place working together to improve legislation. The shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Pontypridd (Alex Davies-Jones), and the hon.”
“The hon. Lady makes an excellent point. Let me just illustrate it by saying that each of us in our childhood, when we were little—when we were four, five or six—saw something that frightened us. Oddly enough, we never forget that throughout the rest of life, do we? That is what bad dreams are made of. We should remember that point, which is why those are wise words indeed.”
“The Minister is incredibly well-mannered. The irony is that we generate an enormous amount of power from onshore wind in the highlands, yet we face the highest levels of fuel poverty. New clause 1, tabled in my name, talks about increasing the community benefit in some way and widening the number of communities who could benefit. I am aware that the hon. Member for Rutland and Melton (Alicia Kearns) has tabled a similar amendment, and I would like to voice my support and that of the Liberal Democrats for it.”
“In all honesty, I probably ought to declare an interest, but pensioners living in Edinburgh and Glasgow do not face the same sorts of increases as pensioners living in a remote and faraway constituency such as mine when it comes to living costs such as running a car, buying groceries and heating the house. Will the Government look at ways of targeting these particularly hard-hit people?”
“As some Members will know, my wife comes from County Armagh. We got married at the height of the troubles—the bombings and the shootings—and it sent a chill down my spine when I read of this leak. First, the hon. Member for Foyle (Colum Eastwood) has referred to the difficulty of recruiting to the Police Service of Northern Ireland, and this will only make it worse. Secondly, it will not do much for our relationship with the police in the Republic of Ireland. The danger is that we just say that this is a matter for the PSNI and take a view from across the Irish sea, but Northern Ireland is a constituent part of the United Kingdom and I hope that a United Kingdom solution will be sought involving police forces on this side of the Irish sea and, if necessary, the UK’s intelligence services to find out what happened.”
“UK students who have been offered opportunities to study abroad are waiting for funding decisions under the Turing scheme. Clearly, for students from less well-off families this is tough, as visas and accommodation have to be paid in advance. Will the Secretary of State, out of the kindness of her heart and to a man from the highlands, give a commitment to bring forward these decisions next year, to make the Turing scheme more accessible to all students, regardless of their background?”
“Earlier, the Prime Minister referred to Turkey’s President, and Turkey is the most important member of NATO. In recent times, Turkey has changed its stance, and we see the historic result of that change. The UK has had a long historical relationship with Turkey. Can I take it from the Prime Minister that every effort will be made in all channels, including diplomacy, to build on the relationship with Turkey and make the alliance stronger thus?”
“This is indeed a sorry state of affairs. The hon. Member for East Worthing and Shoreham (Tim Loughton) reminded us that the Government said last week: “we will not tolerate any attempts by the Chinese authorities to intimidate individuals in the UK.” —[ Official Report , 6 July 2023; Vol. 735, c. 946.] May I press the Government a little further on what specifically we are doing, or have done? For instance, what discussions has the Foreign Office had with Five Eyes and, possibly, European partners regarding the cancellation of extradition treaties with Hong Kong and the People’s Republic of China, and the proper establishment of a safe corridor for pro-democracy activists overseas? We need to get to the core of this issue.”
“Q4. I am sure that the Deputy Prime Minister will be as pleased as I am that work is well under way to construct the Sutherland spaceport; in fact, it is ahead of schedule. Recently, the north coast space cluster has been developed, which involved enterprise agencies and companies. Does the Deputy Prime Minister agree that that can build massively on the skills built up over many years at Doonreay, and that the establishment of international links with companies in the United States can only be good news for the far north of Scotland?”
“I was the member of my party who once had to go on the telly and explain why she had won such a huge victory in the highlands. It was a testing event for me, but I come from the school of hard knocks. Secondly, I imagine that a great number of people in Europe, including present and former Members of the European Parliament, will mourn her passing. Can there be any greater epitaph? I doubt it.”
“When the word came out that she had left us, I happened to be in north-west Sutherland at the time. People said, “Oh, dash it; she’s away—what a shame.” When people say that kind of thing about someone who has left us, it is meant ever so genuinely. If my parents were alive today, they would be very sad that Winnie is no longer with us. I am very sad that she is no longer with us. As I said, she transcended party politics; she was way above that. It was an enormous privilege to have known her. Her hard-working attitude and sincere approach were something to behold. I mourn her today. We mourn her today. I would add two things. First, the right hon. Member for Ross, Skye and Lochaber (Ian Blackford) referred to her as Madame Écosse.”
“But many were the happy, small refreshments that I had with Winnie Ewing. We enjoyed each other’s company enormously. I think, too, of the Durness highland games in north-west Sutherland, where Winnie was a regular—and she was very fondly received by the local folk, I can tell you. She was much loved, and they were really charmed that she came to the games as often as she did. Again, it was a great pleasure to have a small dram with Winnie at the games. One evening, in fact, we maybe had one too many, and Winnie decided that I was her favourite Liberal. I was extremely worried because I thought that might totally destroy my career, so I made sure that all copies of the Northern Times that referred to that were suppressed and never came anywhere near here. I took that as a great compliment. It was meant very kindly indeed.”
“My parents never forgot that. It meant a huge amount to them. I did not know Winnie at that stage—I was still at school. Later, my father died, too young. The letter that Winnie wrote to my mother was remarkable. I have it yet; it is a treasured letter that I will never part with, and I trust my children and grandchildren never will either. It meant so much to my mother. This lady transcended party politics. She cut right through to ordinary folk in Scotland. That was a tremendous and rare strength, to which I pay tribute. In 1999 I appeared, as green as grass, in Holyrood. There was the great lady herself. From the word go she showed nothing but friendship to me. Where my party tended to drink in Deacon Brodie’s, Dr Ewing of Goodwill in Miltonduff rather preferred the Jolly Judge, further up towards the castle.”
“Like the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon), who has just left the Chamber, I come from a different political tradition, but for four years, between 1999 and 2003, I had the privilege and pleasure of serving with Winnie Ewing in the Scottish Parliament. I would like to make a few remarks from a personal angle. As some Members present know, my parents were small farmers. My father was a small dairy farmer in Easter Ross. In the late ’60s, he and my mother established a small cheese business, which my brother still runs today—enough of the family advert. In the late ’60s, they ventured south of the border and took a stand at the food fair at Olympia. My mum and dad wrote to all the Scottish MPs in this place and asked them to come and visit the stand and taste the cheese. Only one took up the invitation: Winnie Ewing.”
“The hon. Member is making a fine speech. What brought the issue home to me was something that happened at school when I was 14 or 15. Our physics teacher, Mr Thompson, took an amber rod and showed us that rubbing it would produce a positive charge, but what he rubbed it with shook me to the core. It was a pussycat skin. He had a box of skins. He said, “It is all right; they came from abroad.” The hon. Member mentioned wild animals; that was a domestic moggy, somebody’s cat. That is what put me right off. Like the hon. Member for Glasgow North West (Carol Monaghan), I have had numerous messages from constituents on the subject.”
“We all love that, and it makes our lives worth living. This is a short contribution, but I sincerely thank the hon. Member for Clacton for raising the matter today. It is an honourable cause, and well done to him; I hope his constituents will see the good work he does.”
“We are a nation of animal lovers, which is precisely why my constituents have been in touch with me in the way that they have. I take this opportunity to put on the record that I thank them for saying those things. I hope that we can spread the word to other nations that it is absolutely out of order to do what the hon. Member for Clacton told us about. We have only one planet together, and we are all—pretty much—sentient beings. I have a much-loved pet cat at home called Hattie, which gives my wife and myself great pleasure; the same is true of everyone who has a pet, or, indeed, if I look out the window and see a blackbird hopping about or just a wild animal. In my constituency, we are blessed with an enormous amount of wildlife, from deer to badgers to otters, and even the occasional roving beaver, so I am led to understand.”
“By means of an intervention, I have already said what I said about my teacher, Mr Thompson. The main point I will make is that that was then. I am quite old; that was an education in the late ’60s, in the hands of Scotland at Tain Royal Academy. Things change over time. That is precisely why the hon. Member for Clacton (Giles Watling) made the speech that he just did: things change and human opinions change. If someone talked to my three children, they would find the whole idea of the fur trade or breeding any animal to kill it by some ghastly means simply to have its skin, as has been outlined, abhorrent. There is a sense of decency out there, and I am proud that our country is saying what it is saying, and it has a lot more to say. We await the Minister’s response with great interest. There is a sort of moral high ground.”
“In normal times and peaceful times in Sudan, large quantities of food crops such as sorghum and millet—and corn, barley and others—are grown. If in this planting season we do not see these crops being sown, we could have a massive widespread regional catastrophe on our hands. Can I take it that the Minister understands this issue and that maximum effort will be made via diplomatic channels to see that these crops are planted this year?”
“Bracken is a fern that is widespread in upland parts of the United Kingdom. It is carcinogenic and is the breeding ground for ticks, which give people Lyme disease, which can be fatal. My own wife had Lyme disease and it was very unpleasant. The only herbicide that controls bracken is called Asulox, and the Scottish Government have just banned it. It is still allowed in England, but it has been banned in Scotland. Understandably, hill farmers and the National Farmers Union have been in contact with me to express their extreme anger at this move. Can the Leader of the House advise me how we can persuade the Scottish Government to change their mind?”
“The hon. Lady is making an excellent contribution. I spoke this morning to my constituent Robert Ross, whose young life has been blighted and ruined. It struck me hard that it feels so desperately unfair that this happened to somebody. In recent times we have seen a mixture of emotions in this place about the way we do things, but one of the undying principles of British and Scottish politics is a sense of fairness. Let us hope that an equitable solution—one that is seen to be fair to these people—can be found.”
“The hon. Member is quite rightly pointing out the Scottish dimension to this. Earlier, I mentioned Mr Robert Ross, who lives in the north highlands, and of course this problem is all over the UK. That is the point. In the four corners of the UK, it is a huge issue, and it matters to people whether they be in the highlands, London or Cornwall.”
“Further to that point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. I think that I am the only Member present who served with Dr Winnie Ewing in Holyrood. It was a great pleasure and an honour to know her. On a personal level, she showed me tremendous kindness when I was a new Member, first elected in 1999. I am very grateful for that and I will never forget it.”
“As Members are fully aware, I hail from the far north of Scotland and once upon a time I was a councillor up there. The BBC was well staffed in those days and I bear the scars of its reporting on me. I did not like it at the time but, by God, that is what local democracy was about, and it was properly reported. That is part and parcel of the way we do things in this country, even as far away as where I live. This cutback will fundamentally undermine proper local democracy in remote places such as the far north of Scotland.”
“Attracting tourists from within and outside the UK to visit rural communities is imperative for the survival of those communities, as independent businesses are boosted considerably by visitors each year. The popularity of heritage sites as tourist attractions speaks to their unique ability to put rural communities in the highlands on the global map.”
“I also want to thank the custodians and caretakers of listed buildings—especially those in my constituency—who work tirelessly to preserve our heritage. In 2022 alone, Historic Houses’ members welcomed over 20 million visits, generating over £1.3 billion in expenditure for the UK economy. They supported over 32,000 jobs across the UK, over 4,000 of which were in Scotland. I believe the figures speak for themselves. In my constituency, in the far north, I have seen at first hand how heritage sites, such as Dunrobin castle in Sutherland, ignite pride in the locals and provide fascination for tourists. That was evident in 2019, when the attraction welcomed—can you believe this?—100,000 visitors to a remote part of the UK.”
“I beg to move, That this House has considered the sustainability of heritage sites across the UK. It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Dowd. I am grateful to have been granted this time to shed light on the important contributions that independent heritage sites make to the UK. The current climate emergency demands that we act fast to mitigate the fatal consequences for our natural world, and one way we should do that is by making man-made environments energy-efficient. There are also concerns about the fragility of heritage sites and doubts about their long-term existence. I put on the record my thanks to Historic Houses, which has taken the time to educate me and my staff about this issue, and to come and watch this debate. I particularly want to name-check my assistant, Olivia Sharma, for her work on this issue.”
“We can do that by recognising this historic environment as part of the solution to achieving net zero. I suggest that tourism has for too long been treated as second rate—an afterthought to bigger, more important issues. We are talking about people’s livelihoods, the preservation of our national identity and, indeed, the very existence of our planet as somewhere we can live and work for many years to come—these are no small feats. That is why I join the voices that have been calling on the Government to support heritage sites that are committed to net zero targets by publishing a review of the planning and regulatory reforms that face listed buildings. The survival of our country’s heritage requires a supportive regulatory framework, and we need it as soon as is humanly possible.”
“In short, heritage protections must be maintained and prioritised in future reviews of planning policies. We must put sustainability at the forefront of our thinking. I am fully aware that housing is devolved to the Scottish Government, but perhaps—with the best will in the world—the two Governments could work together to ensure best practice. After all, having a chain of historic attractions all around the UK can only benefit the four nations of the United Kingdom. The United Kingdom has the oldest building stock in Europe. It would be shameful and reckless to let it succumb to insolvency when we have the tools to ensure its survival. The point I want to make is simply this: the climate crisis is growing ever more urgent and we need to start taking tourism and heritage more seriously.”
“I would suggest that the regulations are flawed and that they lead to the slow and difficult uptake of energy-efficiency measures. These houses were built to last, but the Government must allow them to adapt and change as necessary. Planning frameworks need to provide support for the implementation of sensitive energy-efficiency measures in a way that reflects the climate emergency. Greater investment in renewable energy in off-grid rural communities is imperative, particularly in my constituency and other rural constituencies, because it would lower renewable fuel costs and increase self-sufficiency. That way, green energy projects in the heritage sector could be integrated into their surrounding communities. Reviewed planning frameworks must ensure that buildings are repaired and adapted in energy-efficient ways, not demolished.”
“Despite being sustainable partners who view decarbonisation as crucial to the preservation of heritage for future generations, custodians of listed buildings face practical barriers, which I am afraid to say include current planning permission and listed building consent, both of which inhibit the pursuit of net zero targets. For example, energy performance certificates use a metric of cost, as opposed to carbon. That often encourages the installation of new fossil-fuel boilers, rather than green alternatives such as solar panels, in listed buildings. Furthermore, listed building consent adds delay, expertise and, indeed, hassle to the process of installing any energy-efficiency measures in listed buildings—even those with minimal impact on their historic fabric.”
“The hon. Gentleman makes his point eloquently. As he knows, my wife hails from the Province of Northern Ireland, and I know Greyabbey. He makes his point very well indeed. Historic buildings are pieces of our history in the far north, and keeping them standing protects our heritage in the highlands, Scotland and the rest of the UK. In 2022, Historic Houses properties hosted over 26,000 events, such as festivals, theatrical performances and recitals. Listed buildings and their custodians make history, art and culture more accessible to people in communities right across the UK. It would be wrong to underestimate the value of listed buildings as sources of education as well as entertainment. However, as I said at the outset, the climate emergency poses a challenge to the survival of estates and calls into question their long-term existence.”
“The Minister makes a very interesting point. People come from all over the UK and the world to see the blanket bog, and to look at the little animals and flowers that live there. They also come in the shoulder months—spring and the colder times. They are not fussed about the temperature; they want to see what it is like. That, in turn, boosts the local economy.”
“Sometimes I think that these Westminster Hall debates are like the very best kind of tutorial at a higher education institution. It leads to good thought and constructive work together. Question put and agreed to. Resolved, That this House has considered the sustainability of heritage sites across the UK.”
“I will be very brief. I welcome the Minister’s tone, and we all look forward to seeing what emerges from a new planning framework for listed building consent and seeing what comes out the other end. I will make a simple point: if we get this right, there is a great prize, because the more people who come to these attractions that are supported in a sustainable way, the more that boosts the local economy and, in turn, His Majesty’s Government’s tax take increases. It becomes a beneficial spiral. It is a great goal if we can achieve it; I am sure we can if we work together. Finally, I thank all right hon. and hon. Members for their thoughtful contributions. I am personally grateful to each and every one of these splendid people.”
“The hon. Member is making an important point. Much of the education of our young people is based on the concept of true and false, including mathematics, chemistry, physics and biology. This sum of human knowledge is based on facts, which are either right or wrong, and there is a clear concept of what that means. That reminds us why these concepts are so valuable. I draw the House’s attention to a poem written by Hilaire Belloc in 1907 called “Matilda”—read it; it is instructive.”
“I had the honour to be a Member of the Scottish Parliament for some 12 years, and the Minister served in the Scottish Parliament. I know a good deal about the committee system; indeed, I chaired one. Members of the Scottish Parliament who were not members of a committee could come and speak at it—it was almost never not allowed. I am not a member of any Committee in this place. Given the size of my party, only three of our Members are on Committees. Due to the structure of the proposed Committee, the door would be locked against me applying for a place on it. I feel disenfranchised, and I do not see why my constituents should not be given the chance for their representative to have a voice. I cannot vote for the structure of the Committee as it stands—it is very sloppy work.”
“Does the shadow Secretary of State share my astonishment that in this ramshackle proposal for a Committee there is no mention of the Education Committee? Do children not get caught in the poverty trap and the cost of living crisis? Of course they do. This is an example of a badly drafted proposal, and I suggest that the Scottish National party ought to have done its homework a bit better than this.”
“The Minister is very gracious in giving way, and she is making a most interesting speech. Could I recommend to her something that would be helpful, namely whisky? In the rural community of Wick, in Caithness in my constituency, we have a distillery called Old Pulteney—it is an excellent whisky, but that is not the subject of this intervention. Old Pulteney helps to heat at least 200 houses in Wick, as well as Caithness General Hospital. It is an imaginative solution, so I suggest that the Minister looks at how that is done, takes herself on a tour of other distilleries that are not doing the same, and samples their wares for inner warmth, but also sees how they can contribute to outer warmth.”
“In the north-west of my constituency, Mr and Mrs Mackay run a general store in the village of Durness in Sutherland. It is a fact that supermarket deliveries and mail order are threatening the store’s viability. That is something we should guard against.”
“Q7. The Prime Minister may well have seen the astonishing sight of a former Scottish Government Minister standing up in the Scottish Parliament Chamber and tearing up—literally, ripping into pieces—the Scottish Government’s highly protected marine area proposal. The proposal is deeply controversial all over Scotland, and has even been compared with the second highland clearances. Is now not the time for the UK Government to step in and work with the devolved— [Interruption.] Mr Speaker, I will not be silenced, because this matters deeply to my constituents. Is it not time for the UK Government to step in and work with the devolved Administrations, to come up with a conservation scheme that works and is acceptable to our fishing communities all around the UK?”