Diane Dodds
West Belfast · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Minister, that is a brilliant segue into the question that I will ask. Just over 5% of women who are now seen within the 14-day target for a suspected breast cancer in Northern Ireland. That has happened since the list was regionalised. I get the fact that cancer cases are rising, but —”
“Minister, for Members and those who are listening to the debate, it is important that you tell us what "actively being considered" means on a day-to-day basis.”
“Thank you, Minister. The Muckamore inquiry report demonstrates a shameful period for our health service, and no one involved can, in any shape or form, come out of this with any kind of credibility.”
“Let me be clear: experimental treatment on children that can have lifelong implications is unconscionable. Children of 11 or 12 are in no position to give clear consent to the use of such drugs, especially when those administering the treatments had them banned because of the lack of evidence on their long-term impacts.”
“Once again, I will speak in the House about puberty blockers and the nationwide trial run by King's College. I now understand that the Government will issue new guidance that will allow such a trial to go ahead.”
“It is now anticipated that more than eight out of 10 couples in which the woman is under 40 will conceive naturally, but that leaves two out of 10 who will need additional interventions. Over a lifespan, that is a fairly substantial number of people.”
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“In March last year, 628 patients who were medically fit to leave hospital were unable to do so. In the summer, 512 who were fit to leave hospital were unable to do so. Dr Mark Taylor said that about 500 were unable to leave hospital at the weekend. Unless we get to grips with social care, we will continue to have the problems that we currently have in hospitals. It is not new: it is happening over and over again. We really need to get to grips with that element of the problem. If we can increase patient flow, we will ensure that our patients are treated in EDs, not in corridors and on trolleys, —”
“Therefore, the reference to workforce planning in the motion is really important, because, unless we get ahead with that, we will continue to have the same problem over and over again. <BR /> <BR />Over recent days, we have heard of patients not being able to be released from ambulances and of crews being marooned and having to sit with patients, sometimes in very cold conditions. Minister, I know that you were at Craigavon hospital last Thursday. I was there a couple of hours before you. They said that it was cold, uncomfortable and difficult for patients. That leads to poor outcomes in the long term. We know that the answer to that is patient flow, and it is really important that we get to grips with that. <BR /> <BR />Last week, at the Health Committee, I indicated that I had asked these questions.”
“I am also interested in the number of ambulance hours that were lost over the Christmas and new year period as a result of staff being delayed at emergency departments. I read one report that said that the northern region's target of having 12 ambulances available was met only once during the eight-month period from January to August last year, and the southern division's target of having 10 ambulances was met only three times. We know that demand has been increasing year on year, but the number of staffed ambulances has not risen. That results in a failure to keep pace with increased calls and rising demand and places additional pressure on staff, who have become overstretched and are struggling. They have few rest periods and cannot finish their shifts on time.”
“He indicated that funding had been allocated to the Northern Ireland Ambulance Service for additional hospital ambulance liaison officers at hospital sites. As part of the winter planning arrangements, he indicated that ambulance handover information would be made available to the public fortnightly via the departmental website. Minister, I hunted on the website — I accept entirely that I may not have found all the information — but cannot not find the figures for that; they are not easily accessible on the Department's website. I am interested to hear your comments on the matter. Bringing transparency to the issue is really important.”
“He described trusts as being required to develop plans with:”
“Last May, the former Health Minister responded:”
“I thank the Alliance Party Members who tabled the motion. The debate is incredibly important and useful. In addressing the motion, we need to acknowledge and be thankful for the absolutely supreme efforts of the Northern Ireland Ambulance Service in trying to keep going in the most difficult of circumstances. <BR /> <BR />Unfortunately, however, a lot of what we are experiencing today is not new. It is repeated over and over again. At this particular time, the situation is dressed up as winter pressures, but, as I said at the Health Committee meeting last week, that means that we are just chugging along and trying to get through this period, but we will soon return to the same old issues. That is demonstrated in some of the answers to questions for written answer that I have received over the past year.”
“This has been a very useful session in the Chamber. Will you point to measures that schools can take not just that will produce integration — we know that that is a particular subset — but that can increase inclusivity across the education sectors? I am thinking of increasing the shared education and cultural experiences etc that schools can offer. I point to schools such as Carrick Primary School in the Lurgan part of my constituency, which is a brilliant example.”
“The Chair of the Committee reflected on that as well. <BR /> <BR />Your note to the Committee indicated that the framework will have to operate within the confines of EU law as it applies in Northern Ireland. That really crystallises the dilemma for this part of the United Kingdom, what with our being subject to laws that we cannot control or make. My only reflection on that is this: has your Department given thought to what should happen — we know that the EU is to review its laws — should the EU change its laws and regulations, which may be out of step with the framework from the United Kingdom as it applies here?”
“Minister, many times we sit in Committee and then leave scratching our heads and wondering where on earth this is all leading to and where the light is. I am sure that when you leave the Department, you sometimes feel a little bit like that. Having listened, however, to officials who were talking about the new regulatory framework and new medicines, and how they should and will improve patient outcomes and how they will be delivered at the point of care, I feel that it is incredibly innovative to think that such things are happening. I know that we are not delivering them now, but I hope that patients will soon benefit from that type of care. <BR /> <BR />We accept completely the need for it, as we do the idea that current regulations are not suitable and need to be reformed in order to meet what is new and innovative.”
“Thank you, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker. I am sure that I have got that wrong again.”
“<BR /> <BR />In concluding, I urge Members who care about Northern Ireland, who care about Northern Ireland going forward and who realise that there is a large bloc of unionists who do not consent to the protocol or the way in which the vote is taking place, if they have a care or a thought for that, to be courageous and vote against the motion, sending a strong collective message that, as indicated by my colleague from South Antrim, we should do better and that we can manage things in Northern Ireland better together.”
“That is a reflection of the complex issues that there are in bringing goods for retail or manufacturing across to Northern Ireland. The same report tells us that manufacturing input was down by 1·1%. Those are issues with goods and with the competitiveness of our companies. That was for the second quarter of this year. That is eight consecutive quarters in which we have suffered a decline in manufacturing output. I do not think that the protocol protects us from an awful lot, yet the service sector, which is not managed by the protocol, grew by 0·4%. It is important to get the reality of those statistics.”
“Guess what the Constitutional Affairs Committee did? It quickly got the report out of the road, swept it under the carpet as quickly as it could and dismissed its findings as magical thinking, yet it had been written by one of the foremost experts on the subject in the world. <BR /> <BR />I will also address the idea that the protocol protects us from the excesses of everything and the problems of Brexit. Thanks to the protocol, we are setting up barriers to our most important market for goods that come into Northern Ireland for manufacturing and retail. That is seen in the fact that the value of the sale of goods from GB has dropped. I think that one of the Sinn Féin Members — I cannot remember who — quoted the Northern Ireland composite economic index. Let us look at what it says on the subject. It says:”
“It is really difficult for the Executive, because, in many ways, some of those funds do not align with Executive policy, and it is therefore hard and much less coherent to implement them. Those issues need to be addressed. <BR /> <BR />During the debate, we heard that there was no alternative. During my time in the European Parliament, I was a member of the Constitutional Affairs Committee. I went to that Committee with my colleague, as usual, to take part in the debate. The Committee had commissioned a report on how to manage borders and brought to the meeting the distinguished expert who had authored it. He had a lot of experience in managing the border with Norway and so on. That expert, Lars Karlsson, talked about mutual enforcement and the management of a border without having a physical presence on the ground.”
“I hope that that was an acknowledgement of my point on PEACE PLUS, because it is important to be accurate. If we say that the European Union's largesse is so amazing, we should acknowledge that 75% of the PEACE PLUS funding comes from our Government. That is an important point to acknowledge. <BR /> <BR />I agree with the Member about the Levelling Up Fund and the other funds. I do not think that the Government have made a great job of making sure that communities in Northern Ireland are well served. I will say something more on that that may be a little more controversial, but that is always the danger of speaking off the cuff.”
“I want to address a couple of issues that the leader of the Opposition brought up on the benefits of the EU. He cited PEACE PLUS. It is amazing that £1 billion will be invested in communities in NI, but what the leader of the Opposition did not tell us is that the contribution from the UK Government to that £1 billion is £730 million and that the other contributors are the European Union and, to a much lesser extent, the Republic of Ireland.”
“It was not mentioned in the 10X strategy because I did not see that there was yet value in it, as was the case for the chief executive of Invest NI. If we all explode about that, that is part of the problem. <BR /> <BR />Although the consent motion is applicable to limited parts of the protocol, we should not be blind to the far-reaching impact of article 2. The courts and the rights industry have taken an expansive approach to that article and the interpretation of its "no diminution of rights" phrase. That phrase has constrained the Government in their attempts to legislate for Northern Ireland on such fundamental issues as immigration. It is an area of influence in the protocol whose impact on our daily lives is set to grow and grow.”
“When, however, my colleague asked the chief executive of Invest NI whether he could give an example of a company that had set up in Northern Ireland because of dual market access, he was unable to do so, yet tonight we have the Opposition leader and the SDLP Member for Foyle trying to soften his words by saying, "Well, you know, I talked to him afterwards. It's because companies don't know about it". Companies either have or have not heard about it, as they have had four, coming on five, years to use the provision. The chief executive of Invest NI says that he cannot find such a company.”
“That is only one example of the many businesses that can no longer supply the Northern Ireland market as a direct result of the divergence in law for goods between Northern Ireland and the rest of the United Kingdom. It is destroying consumer choice and increasing costs. It is an appalling situation, and one that, I suspect, Alliance, the SDLP and Sinn Féin will endorse in the Chamber tonight to the detriment of their constituents. <BR /> <BR />We have all heard the cries of, "But we've access to two markets" and, "We're uniquely placed". The Prime Minister said it, Joe Biden said it and lots of Members said it.”
“On Friday 13 December, the introduction of the EU general product safety regulation will take that to another level. Many small retailers will not be able to comply with it and will therefore simply cease to service the Northern Ireland market. Just last weekend, one of my young constituents sent me a message from a leisurewear company that she orders from in another part of the United Kingdom. The message from the company read:”
“Despite all the talk, Great Britain remains, by far, our most important market. That is true for the goods that we sell into that market as well as for the goods that we buy from it for manufacturing and retail. A growing number of GB retailers no longer sell into Northern Ireland, citing the cost of bureaucracy and of labelling as the reasons for that. The issues are diverse: they cover many sectors and include the supply of veterinary medicines, the sale of seeds to consumers, bans on plants, divergence and type approval for vehicles. My colleague Mr Buckley entertained Members with the full list, but I will not do that at this time of the evening. <BR /> <BR />The border is not being simplified. Rather, it is getting harder.”
“We are totally under EU law for sanitary and phytosanitary measures. <BR /> <BR />Those may appear to be dry enough legal points, but they impact on our businesses, our pets and our agri-food industry. The onerous nature of those laws means that we have a significant trade diversion, and many companies in GB are no longer willing to put up with the bureaucracy and expense that comes with servicing the Northern Ireland market. The biggest manifestation of that is the installation of border checkpoints at Larne, Belfast and Warrenpoint harbours.”
“We had Leo Varadkar waving pieces of paper, threatening what would happen if we had any kind of border. However, what they have created — what these rules have created — is an Irish Sea border that pervades all aspects of our life. It necessitates declarations, checks and reporting of data on goods crossing from one part of the United Kingdom to the other. <BR /> <BR />Article 7 relates to the technical provisions and standards of goods placed on the Northern Ireland market, and my colleague — the Member who spoke previously — articulated that more than I could. Article 8 means that EU VAT rules continue to apply in Northern Ireland, and article 10 means that EU state aid rules apply to subsidies related to the trade in goods.”
“If I am allowed to develop the point, which is very important, the point is this: in the eyes of the people to whom I talk, in the eyes of the people who object to the protocol and in the eyes of people who do not want to be ruled by Brussels and do not want to apply European law to everything that they do, there is no legitimacy to a vote that does that. The technicalities are one thing, but how it is viewed in the eyes of the unionist community is an entirely different one. <BR /> <BR />Today, we are voting on articles 5 to 10 of the protocol. Those apply the EU customs code and EU single market rules for goods in Northern Ireland. We were told that this was necessary to protect the EU single market and to avoid a hard border. We had people, probably including the First Minister, out knocking down walls.”
“I will return to the point about the legitimacy of the vote. The Member can protest all that she wants, but in the eyes of my constituents, in the eyes of the unionists whom I represent and in the eyes of the general people whom I represent, a vote in a Parliament —.”
“Having outlined general objections around the issues of democracy and the legitimacy of the vote, I want to turn to some of the specifics around the motion. Today, we are voting —.”
“— the vote, we have had that on about three occasions today.”
“Sorry, if the Member is going to make the same point about —”
“There is no consent from unionism for this separation of the United Kingdom, and there is no consent for the way in which the Belfast Agreement is disapplied in relation to the voting mechanism. This is designed to placate nationalism and marginalise unionism, and it is an appalling state of affairs. Northern Ireland works better when everyone is represented in the democratic process, and if you care about building a better Northern Ireland, you should be courageous and vote against the motion.”
“Yes, the Belfast Agreement principle of laws, which requires support from both sides of the community, should trigger the cross-community consent mechanism. That is not going to happen today, and we are going to vote, for the first time since 1998, by a simple majority. The cross-community mechanism was removed by the Conservative Government under Boris Johnson. British Governments and the European Union, purporting to uphold the Belfast Agreement in all its parts, now happily ride roughshod over that agreement with the abandonment of the cross-community mechanism. <BR /> <BR />Today, I expect all shades of unionism on this side of the House to unite and show their contempt for the protocol and the way in which this vote is conducted.”
“He was very fond of telling us that he must implement the Belfast Agreement, and I quote, "in all its parts". Indeed, there was an awful lot of kerfuffle to get it inserted into motions in the European Parliament and so on at the time — it was very important — but it should be implemented "in all its parts". However, article 18(2) of the protocol actually decrees that any vote on the continuation of the arrangements should be held "in a manner consistent with" the Belfast Agreement. How European to forget it all once you decide that something else is in your interests. <BR /> <BR />Here we are today, compelled to vote on the basis of a simple majority. Yes, that vote is significant and contentious.”
“The reaction that we have just seen means that some Members do protest and are protesting too much and that we have hit a very sore spot. However, rigorous implementation was called for, no matter how anyone wants to dress it up or make it look. <BR /> <BR />I will continue. That is not the only affront to democracy that we are dealing with today. Let me be clear: disapplying the cross-community consent mechanism violates the Belfast Agreement. All through the Brexit years in the European Parliament, I endured many long contributions from Michel Barnier, the former Brexit negotiator and now former Prime Minister of France, on his version of the Belfast Agreement. It does not matter what the Belfast Agreement actually says: they have all had their version of the Belfast Agreement in the European Union.”
“Oh, how the rigorous implementers are applauding. I noticed today, interestingly, a lot of rowing back from that rigorous implementation phrase. You own it. It is yours.”
“Those are areas of law on which no citizen of Northern Ireland can vote for change because no one they vote for can effect it. They are areas of law that create a competitive disadvantage for our manufacturing companies and farmers; that mean that certain trees and seeds cannot come into Northern Ireland from the rest of the United Kingdom; and that mean that Northern Ireland must apply the EU customs code for goods, meaning that Great Britain must be treated as a third country, or a foreign country, within the United Kingdom. They are laws that create that border in the Irish Sea — a border that is hardening through time, despite agreements and repeated assurances by Conservative politicians and a Labour Secretary of State who says that the only way to please Europe is to implement everything faithfully.”
“I accept entirely that you did not say that I, personally, am backward. What you did say was that people who do not support the motion are backward in their outlook for Northern Ireland. That is how I read it. <BR /> <BR />On the intervention of the SDLP Member for South Belfast, I see that he would like to have an EU office in Belfast. Since I am on the subject of EU law, how impotent does the political process in Northern Ireland have to be when laws are set in a place where we can make no input to them but we can beg for an explanation of them in an EU office in Belfast? How ridiculous have we become? <BR /> <BR />Thanks to annex 2 of the protocol, Northern Ireland is governed by the EU in over 300 areas of law — that is thousands of regulations — and not by the Assembly and not by our sovereign Parliament at Westminster.”
“I am not against really robust debate, as you know because you and I have engaged in that many times. I am against the labelling of a community as backward because it does not support something. I will always call that out. We see that, and we are very annoyed by it. I will, of course, give way.”
“I thank the Member for his kind words; they are appreciated. Being a Member of the European Parliament and representing Northern Ireland as one of three Members, was an enormous job and a great honour. However, as the Member well knows, having MEPs who do nothing is not something that I am going to condone. As the Member well knows, I am proud that we are part of the United Kingdom. As long as the United Kingdom has a democratic mandate to remain outside the European Union, there is no place for that in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />I promised the Member that I would give way.”
“I will when I have finished this section. <BR /> <BR />There are Members in the Chamber who are so enamoured with the European Union that they are content to preside over the disenfranchisement of their farmers and their manufacturing companies; Members who see no harm in setting up barriers to trade with our biggest market and creating an internal customs barrier within the United Kingdom, all to please and to be subservient to their European masters; and Members who cannot bear to question the European Union through the Democratic Scrutiny Committee process. It is truly 'Through the Looking Glass' stuff and shameful to behold.”
“In Northern Ireland today, however, in the Chamber this evening, thanks to the protocol, we have the utterly bizarre situation in which people in this directly elected Chamber — Members who hold a mandate to make laws on behalf of citizens here — are cheerleading for that basic democratic right to be held by a Parliament where they have no representation and no voice and are simply content to take the laws that the European Union sees fit to hand down.”
“No, I want to make some progress. I will give way later. You know that I do. <BR /> <BR />I am glad to be able to contribute to the debate today. It is a travesty to call it a democratic consent motion, but, nevertheless, I contributed to many European debates during my time in the European Parliament. I was directly and democratically elected to that Parliament. I held a mandate from the people of Northern Ireland to speak on their behalf, and we should remember that the democratic process is a precious instrument. The right to influence and vote on a law that governs a society is a fundamental tenet of our democracy.”
“I am not quite sure how to follow that bit at the end. <BR /> <BR />Before I get to the substance of my speech, I want to put on record some of my concerns about the tone of the debate today, and particularly what I think of as a bit of sneering from some of the Members opposite. I do not think it does the Chamber any good at all. If we cannot acknowledge the concerns of those on this side of the House without the laughing — I see that the Member for South Belfast has not remained in her chair — and the labelling of people who do not agree with the protocol as backward and not progressive and not wanting Northern Ireland to go forward, that is deeply, deeply regrettable. I want that on the record today, because I think that it is important.”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. That is good news, Minister. Will you explain the length of the scheme? To which junction between Loughbrickland and Newry will it go from Hillsborough?”
“Thank you, Minister, for the statement. I believe that you are genuinely interested in improving services for our constituents. I also believe that you are interested in holding the trusts to account, which is really welcome; it is high time. We have all been concerned about the performance of the cervical screening programme in the Southern Trust. Will you inform the House of whether the Belfast screening lab had its accreditation withdrawn last year, after an unannounced inspection by the United Kingdom Accreditation Service (UKAS), relating to the years 2013 to 2023? If that was an issue, why did the PHA give the centralised screening contract to the Belfast Trust?”
“Thank you for the answer. I note that it is silent on MLAs and their staff. I know that we want a Parliament Buildings where everyone is comfortable, but I note that a number of Members wear sports gear, particularly in Committee meetings. What is the Assembly Commission's view on that issue, and will guidance be issued to MLAs so that staff members who have to abide by a particular policy will not be offended by Members?”
“Thank you, Minister. Will you detail for the House the impact that that will have on your negotiations on teachers' pay settlements?”
“Minister, I am incredibly proud of my time at Laurelhill and of all the pupils who went through that school. It was truly a child-centred school, which is really important for education.”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Before the break, the Health Minister alluded to another serious problem with the maternity hospital. Would it be in order for you to allow the Health Minister to brief the Chamber on the issue? Given the tone, nature and subject of the debate, that would, I think, be appropriate.”
“Thank you for your response, Minister. You know the importance of the library in my town. It is good to hear that work is progressing and that the site has been acquired. Can you narrow in on a timescale for the progression of the project? <BR /> <BR />Perhaps the Minister would like to come and see the library in Banbridge and the very good work that it does for some in the community, including young students and those who are isolated or elderly.”
“On a point of order, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker. I appreciate that the Minister is maybe upset by the motion, but if he indicates that there is another problem, in the context of the debate, he should share that information with the House.”