Diane Dodds
West Belfast · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Minister, that is a brilliant segue into the question that I will ask. Just over 5% of women who are now seen within the 14-day target for a suspected breast cancer in Northern Ireland. That has happened since the list was regionalised. I get the fact that cancer cases are rising, but —”
“Minister, for Members and those who are listening to the debate, it is important that you tell us what "actively being considered" means on a day-to-day basis.”
“Thank you, Minister. The Muckamore inquiry report demonstrates a shameful period for our health service, and no one involved can, in any shape or form, come out of this with any kind of credibility.”
“Let me be clear: experimental treatment on children that can have lifelong implications is unconscionable. Children of 11 or 12 are in no position to give clear consent to the use of such drugs, especially when those administering the treatments had them banned because of the lack of evidence on their long-term impacts.”
“Once again, I will speak in the House about puberty blockers and the nationwide trial run by King's College. I now understand that the Government will issue new guidance that will allow such a trial to go ahead.”
“It is now anticipated that more than eight out of 10 couples in which the woman is under 40 will conceive naturally, but that leaves two out of 10 who will need additional interventions. Over a lifespan, that is a fairly substantial number of people.”
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“In an uncertain world, we need to cooperate on defence, and we can act on climate change, human trafficking and many other areas that are for the common good. <BR /> <BR />However, the motion is not about any of those very laudable goals. The motion before us is yet another example of Members rushing to set up dialogue that will ignore the fundamentals of the problems that the protocol has brought to Northern Ireland. The rigorous implementers — the Members who rushed to demand the full and rigorous implementation of the protocol and whose only red line seems to be whatever Brussels says next — are, in the motion, ignoring reality.”
“First of all, I offer you and the House my apologies. It has been one of those days and a bit topsy-turvy trying to get everything fitted in. My apologies. <BR /> <BR />As a former Member of the European Parliament, I know from personal experience just how important it is to keep up dialogue and good relations with this very important part of the European institutions. Indeed, I have been on delegations to build relations with a number of countries, including Israel and countries in the wider Mediterranean, and visited many European capitals as part of the Conference of Presidents, which is the ruling body of the Parliament. <BR /> <BR />Dialogue between member states' representatives and national Governments is a part of European politics and is to be welcomed. We need to be good neighbours.”
“I will finish on this point, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker. Perhaps we can all remember that. We need to support the Minister in ensuring that she has the funds to make education available to all.”
“My understanding is that that budget has had a real-term cut of 5%, yet an additional 6% of pupils are attending school. That is an extremely difficult budget to manage. I am sure that we all look forward to the 'A Fair Start' action plan being implemented. We discussed that last week in the Education Committee. A DUP Education Minister commissioned that report, but it is still waiting for finance from a Sinn Féin Minister, perhaps —.”
“It is about addressing the isolation and loneliness that young people experienced and helping young people — very young people — to learn again through play and interactions. That is why the summer schemes were so important. <BR /> <BR />When all is said and done, at the end of the debate, the most important thing that we, as politicians, can do is to make sure that the next academic year is uninterrupted and that our children have that safe and secure environment in which to have their education. That is why I am grateful for the intervention and advice from the Chief Medical Officer. <BR /> <BR />I also note that the motion refers to funding. I am sure that the Minister will be grateful for the support of the House as she engages with the Finance Minister on the spending review and pleads for an increase to the Education budget.”
“Over the past two years, our Education Ministers have secured an additional £409 million to support young people and teachers; a fact that has been largely absent from the debate so far. For those who received their qualifications in 2020 and 2021, the learning from 2020 to 2021 is absolutely clear, and those who will do exams in 2022 will see a huge range of reductions in the assessments that they will have to undertake. <BR /> <BR />Some Members on the Benches opposite mentioned IT support. My understanding is that an additional £7 million has been put in to ensure that there is IT support, primarily for those who live in rural communities. <BR /> <BR />Education is not just about exams.”
“As my colleague from east Belfast said, despite all that, Northern Ireland recorded record grades last year at GCSE and A level across the United Kingdom. Surely we should celebrate that and say, "Well done". That was achieved against the backdrop of a pandemic. We had no idea how that would unfold or the impact that it would have.”
“<BR /> <BR />There is no doubt that the pandemic has been instrumental in the experiences of children and young people over the past two years. That experience goes from very young children to those who are sitting their GCSEs and A levels and those who are looking for employment or at continuing education beyond that. <BR /> <BR />A child entering P4 — I confess a conflict of interest, as there is one in my family — will have had only one year in which education has been uninterrupted: their primary 1 year. That is pretty startling at a time of their education when their social, physical and emotional development is proceeding at pace. Young people who started their A-level courses in September have had two years of interruptions to their GCSE studies.”
“Two things that I find utterly depressing in some of the debates about education are the rush to politicise education and the amnesia around the needs of children and young people. We have just had a classic example of that. <BR /> <BR />I pay tribute to the children and young people who have experienced so much over the past two academic years. Their lives have been impacted by the pandemic in ways that those of us of a certain age in the House cannot understand or even contemplate. School leaders and teachers have been instrumental in ensuring that there is a continuity to their education and experience. I am sure that everyone will join me in acknowledging the hard work and flexible approach to teaching that we have seen.”
“The EU and the Dublin Government have been somewhat tin-eared so far in their response to unionist concerns about the protocol. Do you believe, Minister, that there is a will to rectify the harms of the protocol? Do you acknowledge that it is not just a matter of trade but of our constitution and rights under the Act of Union 1801?”
“I return, again without apology, to the survey of victims and survivors. Around 76% of victims and survivors who were surveyed believed that their views were known within the suicide prevention strategy, but very few believed that their views were heard within the anti-poverty strategy. Victims and survivors indicated, First Minister, that policy champions in Departments would be useful. Some such champions, for racial equality etc already exist. Will you and the deputy First Minister take that forward as a matter of priority for victims and survivors?”
“However, in addressing the legacy of the Troubles, will the First Minister agree that it is also extremely important to ensure that the Republic of Ireland addresses its legacy of the past, particularly the allegations of collusion between Garda forces and the Provisional IRA?”
“Last week, the Victims and Survivors Service published a survey of victims' attitudes. Some 88% percent said that it is important to address the legacy of the Troubles and 70% said that they are opposed to the central plank of the Secretary of State's proposal, the statute of limitations.”
“Anyone looking in on the ministerial statement would be absolutely right in thinking that, somehow or other, Sinn Féin is divorced from reality in that it stopped all North/South Ministerial Council meetings for three years when it pulled down the Assembly. <BR /> <BR />The deputy First Minister talks a lot about the balance of relationships in the Belfast Agreement. The Belfast Agreement created a careful balance of relationships North/South and east-west. Will the deputy First Minister agree that the protocol has shredded that balance of relationships, particularly in our trade with GB, and has added costs to businesses in Northern Ireland?”
“— to meet the Sproule family and to give answers as to how the state will investigate this murder.”
“<BR /> <BR />There has been a great deal of litigation and comment about the UK Government's obligation under article 2 of the European Convention on Human Rights. Very little attention, if any, has been paid to the Irish state's responsibilities, however. <BR /> <BR />In concluding, I commend the motion to the House. Its focus is narrow, but it is important, and investigations are needed. Where should we go from here? We cannot just talk about the Sproule family and leave it there. We need to get answers. This week, I wrote to the Garda Commissioner and the Taoiseach. Again, I called on them —”
“Those cases are: Constable Tracy Doak and her three colleagues, who were murdered at Killeen in May 1985; Terence McKeever, murdered in June 1986; Lord Justice and Lady Gibson, murdered in 1987; the Hanna family, in 1988; John McAnulty, in 1989; Ian Sproule, in 1991; and Tom Oliver, also in 1991. <BR /> <BR />Many of the concerns raised on that issue were contained in new intelligence precis presented to the Smithwick tribunal by then Assistant Chief Constable Drew Harris. They were described by him at the tribunal as being "accurate and reliable." Successive Irish Governments have swept away the allegations of collusion, but, in doing so, they fail not only those who lived in Northern Ireland and were murdered by the Provisional IRA but their own citizens: those who have the right to expect protection and justice from their Government.”
“Not only did Smithwick conclude that there was collusion between the Provisional IRA and Garda officers in the death of those two officers but, in recommendation 7, he looked at the possibility of a further tribunal with the power to compel witnesses and make orders for the discovery of documents in both jurisdictions. <BR /> <BR />The solicitor acting for Breen and Buchanan wrote to Enda Kenny in 2014 to say that there should be further investigations into other murders that were probed, to some degree, by Smithwick and in which there were allegations of collusion.”
“Although the Criminal Justice (International Co-operation) Act, ratified by the Irish Parliament in 2019, allows the Garda Ombudsman and other bodies to exchange information on cross-border investigations, the Government in Dublin have retained their veto over such arrangements. That means that families such as the Sproules, and, indeed, those whose loved ones were killed in the Kingsmills massacre, have been abandoned. <BR /> <BR />What have the Irish Government to hide? Are they, like Sinn Féin, secretly pleased that the passage of time seems a convenient excuse for inaction on those terrible crimes? The Smithwick tribunal into the murders of RUC officers Breen and Buchanan should have been the catalyst for a wide-ranging inquiry into Irish state collusion with the Provisional IRA.”
“I am aware that others in the House have met the family and taken an interest in the case, but it seems that the desire to sweep it away trumps the search for truth and justice. <BR /> <BR />In August of this year, after a four-year wait, the Garda Ombudsman responded to the Sproule family, essentially indicating that the passage of time meant that it would not investigate the crime, citing limited resources and the challenge involved in locating witnesses and documents. In reality, it was a list of reasons or excuses, four years in the making, denying the Sproule family an investigation.”
“I have been involved in that case for many years, starting in my role as an MEP. I have written to every Taoiseach since Enda Kenny, and I accompanied John Sproule to meet Simon Coveney in 2019. As John says:”
“Let us look at another area: extradition. Between 1973 and 1997, 113 extradition requests were made to the Republic of Ireland on terrorist-related offences. Only eight people were ever extradited. The offences included charges of murdering RUC officers, planting incendiary devices and attempted murder. In effect, it was a safe haven for terror. <BR /> <BR />I will focus my remarks specifically on the sustained failure by successive Governments to address the substantive allegations of collusion by Garda officers in atrocities committed by the Provisional IRA, and, in particular, on the case of Ian Sproule. In the aftermath of Ian's murder, the IRA passed files to the 'Derry Journal' that included copies of confidential Garda security files that had been leaked as justification for the brutal murder.”
“With that in mind, the main focus of the motion is on the role of successive Dublin Governments who have failed to investigate the extent of the Irish state's involvement in the terrorist campaign in Northern Ireland, tried to sweep that element of their actions out of public view and continuously lectured others on their responsibilities while delaying truth and justice for innocent victims. Justice delayed is indeed justice denied. <BR /> <BR />The Republic of Ireland was no spectator in the Troubles. Just look at the stories that emerged last week about EU funding for Dublin in exchange for an end to IRA terrorism in Germany.”
“Every criticism of the Irish authorities in relation to legacy should not have to be qualified by a mention of the United Kingdom Government. The concerns raised by the Sproule family and many others like them are serious. They deserve to be debated in their own right. It is not a zero-sum game. Equally, there is no reason why action by the Irish Government should depend on wider agreement with the United Kingdom. Either that Administration believe in upholding the rule of law, or they do not.”
“No one in the House should allow the victim-makers to deflect attention from their own bloody past. They and they alone planted the bombs and pulled the triggers. <BR /> <BR />The motion is about bringing the Irish Government to book for their failure to address the minority of cases where there is alleged collusion by members of the Garda. It is not about taking the focus off where it belongs: on those who pulled the trigger and planted the bomb. The House has already recorded its emphatic rejection of the proposals by Her Majesty's Government to close down legal routes to justice for innocent victims of violence. I hope that all those who support the basic principle of justice will do so again today. <BR /> <BR />I reject the amendment.”
“Dublin has manufactured reasons not to help the Sproule family. It has behaved like a spectator and lectured us all about dealing with the Troubles, yet failed to see its own shortcomings. <BR /> <BR />Let me make it clear before I advance that the House owes a debt of gratitude to the RUC, the PSNI and our armed forces for the way in which they protected us. We remember the sacrifices of those who died and those who live with the scars and the families who continue to grieve. We also record our gratitude to the officers of an Garda Síochána who stood with us and worked to protect lives in the most difficult circumstances. In dealing with the motion, let us never forget that terrorists, not police officers, were responsible for 90% of the deaths and bloodshed on both sides of the border.”
“Ian Sproule was killed on 13 April 1991. He was 23 years of age. Ian lived near Killen, which is not far from Castlederg. He was a joiner by trade and a young lad who enjoyed music and playing in bands. In the early hours of 13 April, he returned home, and an IRA gang who had been lying in wait shot him at close range. Forty-four bullets were fired. Ian died instantly. In a cruel twist, shortly after he was murdered, the IRA called the family home and told his father Robert to go out and see what they had left him in the street. <BR /> <BR />For many years, I have advocated on behalf of the Sproule family as they seek answers about their brother, who was murdered by the Provisional IRA as a result of collusion with gardai in Donegal. Officialdom in Dublin has talked about the truth but failed to deliver answers.”
“I thank the Minister for coming to the House about this important issue. I am glad that the panel has been appointed. It is a crucial piece of work for all sectors in the education sphere, including those sectors that support vocational routes. It seems that there is some misinformation going around about that issue. Will the Minister assure the House that the proper recruitment procedures, specifically the guidelines that were laid out by the Commissioner for Public Appointments, were followed?”
“Is that correct? If it is not correct, what does that say about the value that we place on those workers, who perform a crucial job?”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. Most people and those who work in the independent sector will be disappointed by what the Minister has said today. I spoke to the Finance Minister in the House yesterday, and he said that there was an indication that the payment should go out this autumn.”
“A Northern Ireland that is prosperous and that looks after its citizens is the best way to preserve that Union. Let us strive to make Northern Ireland the best place that it can be for all its people.”
“That is no archaic, lifeless history lesson. Like many others in Northern Ireland, when I searched the register, I saw the names of my grandfather and great uncles, men who left the linen mills and fields of County Down to register their views. This day connects me to those people and their resolve. The Union that they cherished looks different now. The economy that they knew was dominated by shipbuilding and linen manufacturing. Today, Northern Ireland's economy has reinvented itself, and we are a world-class hub for the tech industry. However, common to both is our belief in the Union. <BR /> <BR />I am a constitutional unionist but also one who believes that the Union is culturally and economically the best place for Northern Ireland and its citizens. The preservation of that Union is at the core of my political life.”
“Today, 28 September, is Ulster Day. I acknowledge the great movement of those who joined forces in the battle against home rule. The people came from all sections of society with the single purpose of signing Ulster's Solemn League and Covenant on 28 September 1912. <BR /> <BR />One historian described the scene in the City Hall, Belfast:”
“The Minister referred to the very considerable rates support that was given to businesses and all the other schemes that happened through COVID funding. He also allocated £300 million for an economic recovery action package, which has been adopted by the Executive in their fully costed set of interventions for the economy. Some sectors of our economy are still closed, however, because of the restrictions imposed by the Executive. As furlough ends, what provision can we make to support those businesses, should the Executive's decision continue to be to close those particular sectors?”
“The Minister started to answer the question that I will try to get at. Can he give the House an update on healthcare workers in the private sector who were promised the additional £500?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I thought that, in my speech, I explored reconciliation quite considerably. Reconciliation without remorse or contrition is a very difficult concept for victims to accept. Does the Member agree that it is not simply that we reconcile and get on with it? There has to be an element of contrition and remorse for the wrong that was done.”
“If the Bill gets to Committee Stage, we as a party will engage constructively with its sponsor and with colleagues on all sides of the Chamber to deliver on its core aims. <BR /> <BR />The Bill provides us with an opportunity to right the wrongs of the past, to show that we have listened to the voices of victims and their families, and to call out clearly the reprehensible behaviour that celebrates and promotes victim makers.”
“For non-political appointments, the onus is on the panel or body making the appointment to demonstrate that someone's conviction is incompatible with a specific role. Should the reverse be stipulated in clause 3 to ensure that the presumption is that a person's conviction is incompatible unless substantive evidence is presented? Any review panel would be able to regulate its own procedure. Does that need to be fleshed out to ensure that effective mechanisms are in place for allowing victims to input their views? All those matters could be explored at Committee Stage.”
“<BR /> <BR />If the Bill progresses, the Committee and the House will need to consider a number of issues in it. The Bill stipulates only the Policing Board and the Education Authority. Other public bodies are in the scope of the serious criminal conviction exclusion under clause 1 but are not defined therein. Other nominating officers include local councils. Should the principles of integrity and accountability that are at the core of the Bill not dictate a level playing field for all appointments? Would the requirement for the panel to have regard to factors such as someone's remorse be a sufficient barrier to reversing disqualification? Would guidance need to be provided to independent panels on the interpretation of the listed factors?”
“We should care that those who have influence and authority over us should have the right to do so and that they have not been involved in such terrible crimes without any sign or show of remorse. <BR /> <BR />It appears as though there is a general coming together of the parties opposite to stymie the Bill's passage to Committee Stage. It seems that it is OK not to appoint people who have a history of and conviction for violence as special advisers but that it is OK to appoint them to political roles in areas overseeing law and authority and in areas in which they have special responsibility for children. I suggest that the Members opposite would do well to reflect on that and allow the debate on the principles of the Bill to continue at Committee Stage.”
“I do not agree with the Member at all. I am talking about all victims. I am clear that there were victims on all sides in that arena. We must ensure that their voices are heard. I therefore do not accept the Member's point. <BR /> <BR />I spent much of my early career as a teacher in a school in Lisburn. One thing that you learn as a teacher is the tremendous influence that you have over the young lives that are in front of you. Today, we have a situation in which someone who is responsible for the terrible crimes that Mr Allister described will make policy on education and have direction over those young lives. As a society, we would do well to reflect on that.”
“I spent much of my early career as a teacher —.”
“Again, I agree with the Member; indeed, I will add that it gives succour to the party opposite to make more outrageous demands. We will see that as we progress through the autumn and talk about the legacy issues. <BR /> <BR />I will go back to the point I was making, and it is an incredibly important point for the House to reflect on. Does the society that we want to see in Northern Ireland offer inclusion and true reconciliation? Does it offer remorse and a place for those who suffered during the terrorist campaign that was inflicted on us, or does it venerate, eulogise and place in positions of authority those who were the victim-makers?”
“I suggest to the House that true reconciliation cannot happen without expressions of remorse, and I find that word strangely and depressingly absent from the contributions that I have heard from the opposite Benches today. I ask people again to reflect on that element of their contribution. Many innocent victims have gone the extra mile to promote inclusivity and reconciliation by their actions towards their neighbours and the community in general. It is not too far to suggest that remorse should be shown by those who celebrate and uphold the perpetrators of some of those terrible actions. Today, we should remember the innocent victims, but we should also remember the type of society that we want to see promoted in Northern Ireland.”
“I entirely agree with the point that the Member has made. Many innocent victims will see the appointment of people like Mary McArdle and Paul Kavanagh to special adviser roles and through the public appointments process as a premeditated and almost calculated act; indeed, I would go a little further and say that Sinn Féin and others will view it as a sort of landing zone for IRA comrades. However, many innocent victims will view it as a slap in the face for them and the memory of their loved ones. <BR /> <BR />I will address another point that I have heard mentioned by the SDLP and in the contribution by Alliance today: that the Belfast Agreement is about inclusivity and reconciliation.”
“I offer my support and that of the Democratic Unionist Party to the Bill. I thank the Member for bringing it forward. I do so with the innocent victims of Northern Ireland firmly to the fore of my mind. Those innocent victims have been repeatedly retraumatised by Sinn Féin through its celebration and promotion of unrepentant terrorists. We have seen it in speeches, at rallies and on social media, and we find it continuing today. I listened carefully to the Member who spoke previously. It is incredibly strange to hear a Sinn Féin Member saying that they seek not to give offence and that they want to deliver for victims while that party celebrates those who committed murder and terror over the past number of years in Northern Ireland. Members should reflect on the words that they use today.”
“I thank the Minister for her answer. It appears to be like 'Yes Minister': if you do not want to do something, you can throw it into what seems like a never-ending process. First, will the Minister provide a date by which she will have an outcome of all the many and varied consultations that have taken place? Secondly, given that this has been on the go for six years and more, will she make a bid to the Finance Minister in the next round of multi-year bids for additional funding for this sport ? With inflation, the costs have gone up, and —”
“The DUP is committed to delivering a fair and balanced recovery, one that protects the most vulnerable in our society and ensures that everyone pays what is fair and proportionate to their circumstances.”
“<BR /> <BR />Not content to neglect the most vulnerable and the squeeze on family income, this motion also proposes to punish those companies that will lead our economic recovery from the pandemic. Sinn Féin wants to follow in the footsteps of the British Conservative Party by offering us a different unjust tax regime. The redirection of the full burden of new taxation to businesses and entrepreneurs, as proposed by Sinn Féin, would serve only to further strain our economy, restrict job creation, deny economic innovation and, ultimately, punish workers and working families. All of that would be done at a time when we should be striving to attract inward investment, help the expansion of indigenous companies and encourage innovation and entrepreneurship to grow and rebuild our economy.”
“<BR /> <BR />Whilst my party has consistently stood up for working families, our pensioners and the most vulnerable in our society, the party that tabled the motion has let them down. When all other Northern Ireland MPs united to oppose the rise in National Insurance contributions, where was the party that tabled today's motion? Absent, neglecting its electorate and its duty to the most vulnerable in Northern Ireland. When the Government announced that they were cutting the universal credit uplift, where was the party that tabled today's motion? Absent. When Boris Johnson moves to break the triple lock on pensions, where will the party that tabled today's motion be? Absent. That is a huge dereliction of duty.”