Diane Dodds
West Belfast · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Minister, that is a brilliant segue into the question that I will ask. Just over 5% of women who are now seen within the 14-day target for a suspected breast cancer in Northern Ireland. That has happened since the list was regionalised. I get the fact that cancer cases are rising, but —”
“Minister, for Members and those who are listening to the debate, it is important that you tell us what "actively being considered" means on a day-to-day basis.”
“Thank you, Minister. The Muckamore inquiry report demonstrates a shameful period for our health service, and no one involved can, in any shape or form, come out of this with any kind of credibility.”
“Let me be clear: experimental treatment on children that can have lifelong implications is unconscionable. Children of 11 or 12 are in no position to give clear consent to the use of such drugs, especially when those administering the treatments had them banned because of the lack of evidence on their long-term impacts.”
“Once again, I will speak in the House about puberty blockers and the nationwide trial run by King's College. I now understand that the Government will issue new guidance that will allow such a trial to go ahead.”
“It is now anticipated that more than eight out of 10 couples in which the woman is under 40 will conceive naturally, but that leaves two out of 10 who will need additional interventions. Over a lifespan, that is a fairly substantial number of people.”
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“At the outset of my remarks in this part of the debate, I want to take a moment to re-emphasise and reiterate that it is in all our interests to see a Northern Ireland that is more peaceful and more prosperous and where our children can learn and play together. I believe that everyone in the House wants to see a society where we value education as a means to get a good job, provide for our families and provide a decent standard of life, irrespective of our perceived religious, social or political background. <BR /> <BR />However, if those are the values that we want to espouse in the House, the Bill is not the mechanism by which to achieve them. The Bill will simply support one part of our education system and discriminate against all others.”
“The Bill will give parents a real choice about the early education of their children and will ensure that we have a progressive, evidence-based school starting-age policy. The idea of inserting a review into the Bill will ensure that we continue with appropriate policies at the appropriate time. <BR /> <BR />I am delighted that the Bill is going through its legislative passage very quickly and that it will be in operation in time for the September 2022 intake. That is a very positive move for many parents in Northern Ireland. I commend the Bill to the House and reiterate our support for the amendments.”
“The amendment will mean that children who are born extremely prematurely but whose original birth date was within the qualifying April to July period will be allowed to defer their education for a further year. As the Chair of the Education Committee said, many of those children who are premature, or others who are just simply young for their year, sometimes have a more difficult start to education. Although that attainment gap can narrow, many of those children go on to have a range of difficulties and problems that the flexibilities and intent of the early curriculum are unable to meet. <BR /> <BR />We support the Minister's amendment. We also commend the Minister on bringing forward the Bill and, indeed, the Education Committee for the cooperation that has been enjoyed in getting the Bill to this stage very quickly.”
“First, I also want to record my sadness at Christopher's passing. He is a huge loss to the Assembly and to his wife and family. <BR /> <BR />I support the Bill and, of course, the Minister's proposed amendment No 1 to it. The Bill is relatively short in length, but it will make a massive change to the lives of young children and to the lives of their parents as they struggle with very young children who are young for the year in which they are due to start primary school. <BR /> <BR />The original intent of the Bill to allow parents to defer primary school for one year for those children born between 1 April and 1 July has been added to by amendment No 1.”
“<BR /> <BR />I am pleased that the Minister has clarified that her amendment to review and report, which we welcome, will ensure that the Bill remains relevant, is effective and allows for any further follow-ups and additions to the policy, as deemed necessary. I am pleased that there is consensus in the House about the need for the Bill, and I assure the Minister of our support as she works to ensure its passage.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Foundation Stage of the Northern Ireland curriculum, where children learn through play, provides flexibility to meet a range of abilities. It is adaptable and appropriate for the vast majority of children, even those who are young for year. Nevertheless, for a small group of children, it is appropriate for them to have a little longer before the commencement of formal education. While many young-for-year pupils do well in their initial year at school, there is much research to say that children born later in the academic year have a more difficult time in starting their education. That gap, of course, narrows as children get older but can still be a factor at later school age. The decision to defer is rightly placed with the parents, who can make the right judgements about their children.”
“The Bill will allow children born between 1 April and 1 July to commence primary education in the September following their fourth birthday or to defer entry to primary school until the September following their fifth birthday. The Bill will also change the upper limit of compulsory school age for children who defer entry to primary school, ensuring that they receive 12 years of compulsory education like all other children. The Bill will ensure that children who defer will receive preschool education in the year following their fourth birthday. I am grateful to the Minister for clarifying that the Bill will be operational in September this year and that children who avail themselves of the change this year will still be able to attend preschool provision.”
“<BR /> <BR />The first clause of the Bill deals with the circumstances and terms of deferral. Currently, children who turn four on or before 1 July reach compulsory school age at the beginning of September that year. Children who turn four between 2 July and 31 August do not reach compulsory school age until the following year, when they are five years old. That means that the youngest children in the year start primary school aged four years and two months, while the oldest start at five years and two months. The law also states that, if a parent whose child has reached the compulsory age is not sent to school, then the child's parents are responsible for the child's education. Clearly, not a practical option for most parents or children.”
“This Bill will bring welcome changes and will not just bring us into line with the other nations of the United Kingdom but give us the most progressive, evidence-based position of all the four nations. <BR /> <BR />Parents often find that children who are born in the latter part of the qualifying period are immature and not prepared for school. The Bill will address the issues of children who are young for year. I am also glad that the Minister has clarified that the Bill already addresses the issue of children who are born prematurely and who are also young for year. A further amendment at the Further Consideration Stage will deal with those who are born very prematurely before April but whose expected birth date would have been within that period. Those are important changes for families.”
“First, I place on record our thanks to the Minister for introducing this legislation. As the Chair of the Committee has said, it is a good example of the Minister and the Committee working together to progress things that are good for our children. However, I will also add that it is an example of a Minister who has listened and acted as quickly as possible. We thank the Minister for that. <BR /> <BR />I also place on record our support for the Bill and for the amendment, which allows for review and report. The Bill will have a big impact on children and families in Northern Ireland, and, as the Minister said, it provides real choice for parents of children who are young for year. Currently, Northern Ireland is unusual in that we have no flexibility for those children who are due to start school.”
“The Bill rightly places the decision with parents, who are able to make the right judgements about their children. I am pleased that there is consensus in the House on the need for the Bill, and I am glad to hear the Minister confirm that, if the Bill passes, there will be interim arrangements for the September 2022 intake. <BR /> <BR />I assure the Minister that we will work in the Committee and in the House to ensure that the Bill passes its necessary stages in this mandate. Again, I acknowledge the work of those who have done so much to bring the issue to the attention of this legislature and to ensure that it will become law.”
“Although the foundation stage of the Northern Ireland curriculum, in which children learn through play, provides some flexibilities to meet a range of abilities and is adaptable and appropriate for the vast majority of children, even those who are young for year, it is appropriate for a small group of children to have a little longer before their commencement of formal education. <BR /> <BR />While many young-for-year pupils will do well in their initial year at school, much international research has consistently indicated that, on average, the attainment of pupils born later in the academic year is lower than that of those born at the start of the academic year. Although the gap narrows as children get older, it can still be a factor even at GCSE stage.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Bill will allow children born between 1 April and 1 July to commence primary education in the September following their fourth birthday or to defer entry to primary school until the September following their fifth birthday. The Bill will also change the upper limit of compulsory school age for children who defer entry to primary school so that they will, like all other children, receive 12 years of compulsory education. The Bill will also ensure that children who defer will be able to receive preschool education in the year following their fourth birthday. <BR /> <BR />During our time in the Education Committee, members have been contacted by parents who are worried that their children, who were born late in the school year, are not as emotionally or socially ready for school as their peers.”
“<BR /> <BR />Currently, children who turn four on or before 1 July reach compulsory school age at the beginning of September that year. Children turning four between 2 July and 31 August do not reach compulsory school age until the following year, when they are five years old. That means that the youngest children in the year start primary school aged four years and two months, while the oldest start at five years and almost two months. The law also states that, if a child who has reached compulsory age is not sent to school, the parents are responsible for the education of that child in that year. Clearly, that is not a practical option for many parents.”
“Again, I voice my support and, indeed, that of my colleagues on this side of the House for the School Age Bill. All members of the Education Committee will have received substantial representation from the many parents whose children were born in the latter part of the qualifying period. Those children are often thought of as immature and not really prepared for the rigours of school. I am glad that the Bill will address the issue of children who are young for year. As has been said, Northern Ireland is unusual in the four nations of the United Kingdom in that we have no flexibility for children who are due to start school, and the Bill will bring welcome changes to the law. As we have said before, it is a relatively small and simple change to the law, but it will make a substantial difference to a number of young children.”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. As far as I am aware, we are debating the deferral of school start age. Will you ensure that the Member addresses the Bill that is before us in the Chamber?”
“On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. Will the Member address the —”
“<BR /> <BR />I finish by paying tribute to all those who, for so long and consistently, brought this matter to the attention of the House. We assure them that we will do what we need to in order to make sure that the Bill becomes law.”
“I express support from this side of the House for accelerated passage for the Bill. I thank the Minister for proposing to make this, as others have said, relatively small but very meaningful change to legislation. I hope and trust that, using the accelerated passage procedure, we will be able to ensure that that change to the law comes to pass in this mandate. <BR /> <BR />Even though we are talking about accelerated passage, as the Minister indicated, this is the end part of a fairly lengthy and extensive process of consultation. As other Members have commented, it is something that we have been attempting to do as a legislature for quite some years. It therefore seems to me that accelerated passage is appropriate in this instance, and the DUP supports granting it.”
“I thank the Minister for his assessment. The United Kingdom has also signed a free trade deal with Japan, which is one of the largest importers of agri-food products across the world. Will the Minister agree with me that there is substantial opportunity in the trade deal for Northern Ireland's farmers and agri-food businesses?”
“Minister, thank you for explaining to the rigorous implementers on the other side of the House exactly what the cost of the checks would be to our constituents, both in the price of goods and in the lack of choice. I see some of them smiling. Perhaps they will not be smiling when their constituents outline that to them as well. <BR /> <BR />Does the Minister agree that the checks are merely a symptom of the problem and that the real cause of the problem is the fact that Northern Ireland remains under EU law?”
“The House will be extremely interested in those figures and will register shock that 38% of the prison population are on remand and that 58% of women who are in prison are on remand. Surely that is an unacceptable figure. Will the Minister indicate what she is doing to remedy that? In doing so and having expressed her concerns numerous times, will she also indicate why she did not just vote against the Sinn Féin Budget as proposed?”
“Those events will be befitting of this occasion and will offer families and communities the chance to reconnect after very difficult times. <BR /> <BR />Mr Speaker, I am glad that you passed on the congratulations and good wishes of the House on this very significant occasion, but I am perturbed, as many people in the wider community of Northern Ireland will be, by the petulance and begrudgery of some Sinn Féin Ministers who refused to allocate specific budgets for people to celebrate this very great occasion. I do not wish to turn this into a political narrative, but it would be remiss of me not to say that. <BR /> <BR />May we all say, with a good heart, "Long to reign over us".”
“I join others in offering my congratulations to Her Majesty on this very historic occasion. For over 70 years, Her Majesty has been a beacon of hope; for over 70 years, she has been the strength of our nation; for over 70 years, she has been our Queen. On behalf of the people of Upper Bann, I offer my heartfelt thanks and unwavering gratitude to Her Majesty on the historic occasion of her platinum jubilee. Her dedication to duty and service and the people of the United Kingdom has been steadfast and unyielding. She has been a beacon of reconciliation in Northern Ireland and has led by example. As we begin the official celebration of the platinum jubilee, I look forward to events that will take place along the length and breadth of Upper Bann and, indeed, throughout Northern Ireland.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I am interested in what a just transition looks like. The Member just referenced it. I am keen to know whether she has any figures in mind for the cost to the public purse of some of the measures that she has just outlined. <BR /> <BR />Will the Member also comment on this? In some parts of the European Union, part of that transition means that, for example, the Netherlands is planning to pay farmers over €25 billion not to farm. Is that the Sinn Féin position?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. The Member talks about Sinn Féin protecting rural communities. I am very proud of Northern Ireland. I am very proud of our rural communities, and I am very proud of our farming and agri-food sector. Today, the Ulster Farmers' Union tells us that supporting the Climate Change Bill, or even some of the amendments to the Minister's Bill that you will clearly support, could, in effect, jeopardise thousands of jobs in the agri-food sector in Northern Ireland. I speak as a representative of Upper Bann, where a huge amount of the agri-food sector jobs are based. How is that looking after rural communities?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. She makes a really interesting point about our credentials in relation to climate change and carbon emissions. Does the Member agree that the demand for food will increase exponentially in the coming years? Unfortunately, that demand for food will be met by countries that do not have the climate change credentials that the United Kingdom currently has and, indeed, that, as a whole, the United Kingdom aspires to achieve by 2050. Indeed, after the EU-Mercosur deal, countries in South America are clearing whole swathes of the Amazon forest to increase their beef production. Food demands will have to be met, and the countries from which the Member is seeking to meet that demand do not have those climate credentials.”
“RSE is an important area of the curriculum, and recent events demonstrate just how important it is and how far we still have to go. As I understand it, RSE is not solely the preserve of teachers. Can the Minister outline the role that governors play in schools to ensure that the policy is implemented?”
“I thank the deputy First Minister. Ironically, we are in a democratically elected House discussing the implementation of laws that we do not make and will have no say in. Does the deputy First Minister recognise that as the rest of the United Kingdom moves away from the very difficult and tight laws of the EU on issues such as subsidy control, Northern Ireland's firms will be less competitive and their burdens more onerous because we are stuck with EU legislation in that particular area?”
“I thank the deputy First Minister. She says that we must tackle violence against women in all its forms and wherever it comes from. I presume that that includes late-night misogynistic tweets or, as in my case, a shameful tweet that, many believed, was in response to the posting of a video on the anniversary of an attempt by the IRA to kill my family and police officers. For the avoidance of doubt and for the record of the House, will the deputy First Minister take the opportunity to show leadership and condemn that attack by the IRA and other IRA killings of women such as Jean McConville, Joanne Mathers and Yvonne Dunlop? If she fails to do that, all the talk about tackling abuse and violence against women and girls is nothing but talk.”
“<BR /> <BR />I am not blind to the need to make change in education. I have many ideas that are perhaps more radical than those of most on this side of the House about what that change should look like and how it should progress. I would like to see our children more appropriately educated for the world of work. I would like to see much greater connection among the world of work, schools and the Careers Service. There are many things that we could do in the sphere of education, but the right place in which to discuss the issues in the Bill and those other changes is in the independent review of education, not by taking something on its own and running with it for one sector only.”
“The legal advice and so on that we received stated that that would be an unusual step, giving the Minister enormous power, should the regulations be brought to the Assembly, and the House be minded to make them. The Committee amendment somewhat alleviates that issue. <BR /> <BR />I will finish speaking on this group of amendments by going back to some of the issues that I have raised over and over during this very lengthy debate. We all want to see our children learn together, play together and work together, but supporting only one sector, or disproportionately supporting one sector over another, will not achieve that goal. Some of the issues that we have discussed will make it difficult for the Department to distribute finite resources, because it will have a legal obligation to fulfil the additional duties required by the Bill.”
“However, the real inequality in education is shown in the numbers who are in receipt of free school meals; as I quoted, 28% of pupils in the controlled sector receive free school meals. That is where the real inequalities in education lie. We need to fund programmes like A Fair Start so that we give all of our children, from the moment that they start school and enter the system of education, the best opportunity that they possibly can have. That is why clause 10, in itself, would be onerous and very difficult for the Minister to actually implement. Again, I make the point that it is an onerous obligation in one sector only. <BR /> <BR />My colleague Mr Newton referred to the advice that we were given on subsections (3) and (4) of clause 10 that the regulations could be made under amending legislation.”
“I want to make progress, so I will not take any more interventions at the moment. <BR /> <BR />We will support the SDLP amendments to clause 10, if they are moved, because we feel that they present a more realistic view of what the Minister could or should do on integrated education. <BR /> <BR />I will finish on this group by referring to figures that were given at the early part of this morning's Education Committee — the bit that we all got to. The Department of Education finance director told us that, during the next three-year Budget period, just to stand still, the Department will require an additional £195 million in year 1, an additional £240 million in year 2 and an additional £300 million in year 3. <BR /> <BR />Much has been said about fairness, equality and so on, and the Bill sponsor says that that is the point of the Bill.”
“We all have a role to play. All sectors have a role to play. Much has been made recently of the comment about ending apartheid in our education system. My former party leader Peter Robinson was actually the first person to say that, and, after that, he and the Assembly delivered the Shared Education Act. There are many ways in which we should be tackling the issues of segregation, sectarianism and so on. As I have said on the record in the House and as I passionately believe, a stable, prosperous Northern Ireland will give opportunity to all of its people, including its young people, in all sectors. My problem with the Bill is that it does that only for one particular sector.”
“The Member is throwing dust in the air, and I will not go down a rabbit hole on another strategy. We are here looking at and examining the draft legislation as it appears in the Bill and at what will potentially be the law in Northern Ireland. The onus from and the import of the Bill for the Department of Education will relate only to integrated education. It is a long time since I have refreshed my memory on the draft strategy, but I suspect that it relates to all sectors of society and all people. This relates only to integrated education. The onus from the Bill on the Department would be enormous in that the Minister would be obliged to make these recommendations for one sector only.”
“That is the point that I am making. The point is about fairness. That is really important. The point is about fairness to all our children and across all the education sectors. We in the House simply cannot ignore that if we are concerned about the majority of children in our system.”
“If we do not accept the Minister's amendment, the Minister "must" make regulations on that. We are not talking about what she "may" do; she "must" do that. I am not terribly sure how on earth we will do that and how the Minister will start an exercise in which she makes sure that she looks at every public body across Northern Ireland and at how they provide services for integrated education — one sector only. A huge sector of her Department "must" be involved in that area.”
“It is somewhat ironic that, despite the fact that I and my colleagues have spent the last two days talking about what is fair and equitable, we are hearing about that from the SDLP only at this point in the debate. It would absolutely clog up the system if that were done for only one sector. <BR /> <BR />We are:”
“It is important because clause 10 has the potential — I am not the Minister of Education, but this is a passion of mine — to clog up the Department if it has to talk to everybody and anybody about the sole issue of integrated education, which will be the case if we agree to the Committee's amendment on that. So, we are not going to talk about transport in a holistic way, and we are not going to talk about the transport issues that my constituents in the Portadown and Lurgan area are hugely concerned about at the moment, but we are going to talk about transport only "in respect of integrated education". The remit there is absolutely huge. <BR /> <BR />The Member for the SDLP has left the Chamber.”
“I thank the Member for his intervention. I will come on to look at what some of those pressures will be. We have established that, if we place a duty in law on the Minister that is for one particular sector and do not make it applicable to all sectors, that duty in law will have pre-eminence. That will lead to consequences for funding, and it will have huge consequences for area planning. We have to take cognisance of that. If we place that duty, as the House is rushing headlong to do, we must realise that the consequences for the other sectors will be quite significant. <BR /> <BR />I want to progress to clause 10. I confirm that we, of course, support the Minister's amendment No 46, which will take out the word "must" and put in "may". Why is that particularly important?”
“Again, the Member's comments go to the heart of the argument that I have made over the last number of days. We are making legislation that will have far-reaching implications, not just for the integrated sector but all the other sectors in education. I fear that some people in the House are making legislation with their fingers crossed and are hoping for the best, which is very worrying. It is important to get that on the record so that everyone understands that what we are doing now will have a huge impact on all our children, including the 90% who are educated in maintained and controlled schools. That is hugely important.”
“Thank you, Mr Speaker, for your forbearance. I made the rookie mistake of attending the start of the Education Committee meeting this morning from home, which, in hindsight, was not the best thing to do. <BR /> <BR />For the third day, I rise to speak on the Integrated Education Bill — this time, to the group 4 amendments. Before I speak to specific amendments, we should maybe address some of the issues that were raised by my colleague on what is in the Bill, which will be the law, what we might want in it or what we think might be good in it. I take us back to the debate yesterday and to the clarification offered by Deputy Speaker McGlone on what the Further Consideration Stage actually is. It is for tidying up the Bill, not for making large amendments, so whatever we agree to being in the Bill will largely stand.”
“That is important for Northern Ireland, for our future and for our stability, and it is something that we should all aspire to. The Bill will not help us to progress that noble goal. Rather, it will uplift one sector over all the other sectors in education and create huge problems along the line. I appeal to those in the House who, I know, have many questions and are worried about the fact that they have been whipped to support the Bill: sometimes you just have to do what you believe in and stand up for the young people whom you represent.”
“I have made it my business to visit schools across all of the sectors in my constituency in order to talk to them and listen to their concerns. <BR /> <BR />I will finish by looking at clause 9 and the relevant amendments. Again, that clause places a requirement on the Department of Education. If the Department of Education is required to bring forward a strategy as well as a report on that strategy, we really have to question the role of NICIE in all of that, where it will sit and what it will be doing. <BR /> <BR />We have taken considerable time to consider the Bill in the House, and that is right and proper. As we have gone through the process, we have aired our total commitment to children learning together, playing together and, when they become adults, working together in the workplace.”
“I accept the Bill sponsor's clarification, but around 300,000 children in Northern Ireland are educated in controlled and maintained schools. Those children are not included in any of the Bill's provisions; they will be left outside, they will not have the same opportunities and the same obligations in law will not apply to them etc. <BR /> <BR />I recently read that about 7% of the Northern Ireland school population are educated in an integrated school and that around 90% are educated in a controlled or maintained school. We should not institutionalise that kind of provision for one sector and not look at the other sectors in education, particularly when there is such extraordinary need in some of those sectors right across Northern Ireland.”
“<BR /> <BR />I am very concerned, as I have said over and over again today, that this will uplift one sector over another, and that is entirely wrong. As I have also said today, I am not blind to the need for reform in education. It is important for us to address that. There are so many fundamental things that we can do to improve outcomes for young people in Northern Ireland. However, I really do not think that we can do that by having an obligation for one sector and not have it for every other sector.”
“I want to make this point, because it is very significant and important for me. Over the last number of weeks, I have been talking to a number of schools in my constituency, including, for example, St Patrick's College in Banbridge, which needs new creative arts spaces. There is nowhere in the school for the creative arts. I have been talking to Banbridge High School, where, in this day and age, some classrooms still have traditional blackboards. There is that need in the maintained and controlled sectors. I have been over at Portadown College, which may have — I stand to be corrected but am nearly sure about this — the largest sixth form in Northern Ireland, and fungus is growing out of the corners of the classrooms, yet the Department, under that very specific obligation, is obligated to do that for only one sector.”
“It is a specific obligation to integrated education in a Bill on integrated education, but there is no equivalent obligation in law, and that has the potential to introduce us to a very difficult area.”
“If I were looking at the Bill in isolation and not considering the other issues in education, I might think that those requirements were not extraordinary, although it is extraordinary to ask the Department to do that for one sector but not for every other sector. In law, that would mean that the Department would be identifying those resources for the integrated sector while not doing the same for other sectors. <BR /> <BR />That brings to my mind and to my attention that, while the Department is doing that for the integrated sector, the Catholic maintained sector may well do it for its sector, and the Irish-medium sector may well do it for its sector, I again go back to the issue of where controlled schools will sit under that obligation.”