Arlene Foster
Fermanagh and South Tyrone · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Yet, like too many projects, it has been tied up in legal wrangles. Too many infrastructure projects are being swallowed up in the courts. We need to improve the expertise in infrastructure delivery. We need better infrastructure for the next generation, but key projects being delayed by 10-plus years is unsustainable.”
“Any agreement involves compromises but NDNA had two central pillars that, I believe, remain important: ambition for devolution and a new cultural deal. The breadth and depth of issues that NDNA set us all to deliver on would have been enough to fill an entire term or perhaps more, let alone two years of government.”
“That confidence-and-supply agreement will leave a legacy but also highlights our challenges. Some £150 million has been rolled out via Project Stratum to bring broadband to rural areas and leave Northern Ireland as the best-connected region in Europe. When it is completed, the project will be transformational to our economy.”
“However, such short-term advantage comes at the cost of long-term harm to relationships. It is not a real partnership. Imbalance and instability are built in that will fester and deteriorate. If Brussels continues to think that the protocol is enough, it is in denial.”
“Colleagues inside and outside the House know very well that all periods of leadership must come to an end. That is why, when we are privileged and, indeed, honoured to hold such a position, we must not waste a moment in frivolous brinkmanship but forge ahead on behalf of those whom we represent.”
“The recommendations of the Commission on Flags, Identity, Culture and Tradition (FICT) are to be taken forward as well. I encourage all of you to do all of it, to take it forward in its totality and to speak of and implement it as one complete, independent package: a new cultural deal for Northern Ireland's new century.”
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“I recognise that there has to be disruption for a considerable period before the valuer can look at a new rateable valuation in respect of the small business concerned. That may be somewhat difficult, particularly in the context of the revaluation having just been rolled out this year. However, I think that there is a role to look at how the works are progressing. Could traffic management be dealt with in any other way that would get people to the businesses? Could we involve ourselves in providing more signage? There are other ways to help businesses. I think that we need to look at that matter proactively and innovatively, and not with a closed mind, to help those businesses.”
“As I have already indicated, I will certainly raise it at the Executive table. I think it is a specific issue for East Belfast, at present, but, unfortunately, there may be other cases around Northern Ireland. I absolutely acknowledge that it is good that Roads Service and NI Water are undertaking works in particular areas to alleviate floods, because we remember the damage that was caused a couple of years ago. It is good that the works are taking place, but you also have to recognise that businesses need to function and be able to attract people into them. Therefore, there needs to be a balance and a proportional response to deal with the issue.”
“So, if there are particular incidences of hardship, he should, perhaps, encourage those involved to have a conversation with the district valuer in relation to the specific issue, because it looks as though the issue will be around for some time. <BR /> <BR />It is not just happening on Mersey Street. There have been other examples. At a constituency level, there are roadworks in Enniskillen, at present. Whilst we very much welcome the fact that works are going on in those areas to deal with issues, sometimes I think that a little bit more thought needs to go into the planning of the roadworks and how we can help businesses while they are ongoing. So, I am happy to mention it to the Minister involved and to raise it at the Executive table.”
“I thank the Member for his comments and question. I am fully aware of what is going on down on Mersey Street and feel a lot of sympathy, because, as I understand it, that scheme was to be finished by the end of May, but, because of unforeseen issues relating to the ground and what have you, it is projected that it will not be completed until December of this year. That is nearly a whole year of businesses having to deal with the issue. I am looking forward to meeting the Member and some businesspeople from the area in relation to the issue. Whilst I cannot issue a blanket rebate, individuals can apply to the district valuer to have their rates looked at.”
“Members will be aware that the reason why Mersey Street is closed to most traffic is to facilitate ongoing work by Northern Ireland Water to improve drainage and alleviate the threat of future floods. While I am sympathetic to the issues raised by business owners as a result of ongoing schemes in Mersey Street and on the Castlereagh Road, I am sure that the Member will understand that I simply cannot issue a blanket rate rebate to ratepayers in the area.”
“Again, it comes back to the very fundamental issue that, without welfare reform, there is no Stormont House Agreement and, therefore, the flexibilities that we require to move forward are not available to us.”
“I sent a note around Departments, I think about a month ago now, advising them that they should be prudent with discretionary spend and should not commit to further spend that is not necessary and that they have not committed to. It is for each individual Minister who is responsible for his or her own Department to decide what they do about that, but, fundamentally, that will come to the Executive, and we will have a discussion about it. I think it would be very foolish for any Minister to continue to spend without any regard to the situation that we find ourselves in. If the Stormont House Agreement and welfare reform were implemented, we could continue with our discretionary spend and could continue to deal with the areas of very great need that there are right across Northern Ireland.”
“The Member knows that, when various members of his party asked that question of the Secretary of State, they got the same answer as I got from the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, which was that we would find out what the implications would be for us on 8 July. The Treasury is not going to tell us what the quantum is before it makes the announcement to the House of Commons on that date. However, I think that we are very aware of the commitments that the Conservative Party made in its manifesto before the general election, so we have a fair idea about the sorts of areas that it is looking at for dealing with further cuts to welfare and other issues.”
“I do not know whether the Member is suggesting water charges or what she is talking about. Of course, if her party's Ministers want to bring forward suggestions on revenue raising, I am sure that the Executive will give them due consideration.”
“We had a good discussion about how we could engage more with the public generally on financial matters so that they are aware of the decisions that have to be taken on a fixed Budget. How do you decide on your priorities, and how do Departments decide what is very important to deal with? It was a very good engagement, and it is one that we will continue with.”
“I thank the Member for his question. I had a very constructive meeting with my counterpart in Wales. She mentioned welfare tangentially, insofar as she said that she was not looking for welfare powers to be devolved to Wales, which is possibly very wise. <BR /> <BR />We had a very useful discussion about the Barnett formula and how the Welsh feel that it is working for them. Of course, under the Barnett formula and in relation to funding, they are worse off than we are in Northern Ireland. They want to look at how they can bring in an element of need. We discussed that very issue in the Chamber last week when debating the Committee's report on the Barnett formula.”
“Therefore, we will not come to a situation of trying to deal with the situation that he mentioned — how we measure against those allocations or how we deal with that issue — because the Assembly cannot continue with a Budget that seeks to deal with that size of cut to the public sector and we would not be able to proceed. Therefore, it is imperative — I will, no doubt, say this many, many times during the Budget debate today — that welfare reform and the full Stormont House Agreement are implemented.”
“As the Member is aware, I met the Chief Secretary to the Treasury two weeks ago, when we had the opportunity to talk about those issues. At that meeting, he made it clear that there would be no extra money and that we could not breach our control totals. The Treasury has not made it clear what it will do if we breach our control totals because, first and foremost, it is a matter for and a responsibility of the Executive to live within our means — the money that has been allocated to us. <BR /> <BR />As I said to the Member during the Budget debate last week, if we have no welfare reform, we have no Stormont House Agreement, no Assembly and no Executive.”
“The Executive Budget for 2015-16 is predicated on the full implementation of the Stormont House Agreement. I now expect all parties to follow through on the commitments given in that agreement, including the implementation of welfare reform.”
“However, we also need to recognise that different regions of the United Kingdom have different needs, and that is where we really need to push ahead with the Chancellor and the Chief Secretary to the Treasury.”
“I do, and I am glad that the Member referenced that. I tried to reference it in my substantive answer because it is very clearly the case. You may recall that, at first, the IMF criticised the Chancellor of the Exchequer for the way in which he was dealing with the deficit and then had to apologise for that criticism. Afterwards, Christine Lagarde said that there was, in fact, no single way to deal with the particular issue that she was talking about. There are different ways to deal with the issues, and it would be wrong of us not to recognise that the deficit has reduced to over £70 billion from a high of £153 billion. That is important, and we need to recognise it.”
“I thank the Member for the information. I was not aware of that court case, and I am sure that the First Minister and deputy First Minister, who have policy responsibility for that issue, will come to the House in due course after they have had a chance to consider the judgement. In relation to poverty in Northern Ireland, I want to say to the Member that his continued refusal to implement welfare reform proposals in Northern Ireland will lead to an awful lot of people being in very difficult circumstances right across Northern Ireland in terms of public services. He should not lecture me about dealing with those in poverty: he should try to stop people going into poverty.”
“The Greece situation is very worrying for a number of reasons. It points to the issue that the Member has raised in relation to just avoiding dealing with national debt. You cannot do that; you have to grasp the nettle and deal with the deficit and the debt. In relation to Greece in general, there are certainly worrying times ahead because, if Greece exits the euro, as looks increasingly likely, that will lead to a time of grave uncertainty for the eurozone. Thankfully, we are not in the euro. That gives us some protection, but that will be of no comfort to our exporters who are exporting to the European Union generally and to the eurozone in particular. There are worrying times ahead, particularly for our exporters, and we will do all that we can to support them in the knowledge that there are difficult times ahead.”
“That is where we need to focus our discussions with our national Government, the Chancellor and the Chief Secretary to the Treasury.”
“The deficit has to be dealt with, and, as part of the United Kingdom, we have to play our role in dealing with it. The deficit peaked at £153 billion, which is around 10·2% of national income, in 2009-2010. That was clearly unsustainable. Therefore, if the Member reads the IMF discussion paper that she referred to in her question, she will note that debt has to be tackled. Where I may differ from the Chancellor and his plans slightly is that I believe that, when you are dealing with debt and the deficit, you need to have concern and regard for all the regions of the United Kingdom. I have commented previously that you do not just look at London and the south-east; you have to have regard to all the other regions of the United Kingdom.”
“There are three points, for me, from the IMF report. The first is that a high level of public-sector debt represents a burden on the economy that must be dealt with. However, it is the pace of repayment that is in question, and, in that regard, the United Kingdom has room to manoeuvre. In such circumstances, rushing to pay down debt could be the worse of two evils. The report reaffirms my view that debt should be tackled but in a way that reflects the circumstances of all the United Kingdom regions.”
“<BR /> <BR />Mr Principal Deputy Speaker, I am aware that I have strayed somewhat from the Bill, but it is important that we do not forget the bigger picture. The Budget Bill, which I hope that Members will support again today, does not exist in a vacuum. It is important to our financial cycle and the principal mechanism through which the Assembly can hold Departments to account for their expenditure. However, decisions that we take in this financial year will have profound and wide-ranging consequences not just for us as an Administration but for all the people of Northern Ireland. With that in mind, I ask Members to support the legislation and pass the Final Stage of the Budget (No. 2) Bill.”
“<BR /> <BR />Another unwanted implication of not implementing welfare reform is that all elements in the Stormont House Agreement fall, including the commitment to devolve corporation tax powers to the Assembly. As Members will be aware, this issue is close to my heart, and I have been championing it over the years in my role as Enterprise Minister. I firmly believe that we must not and cannot afford to lose the huge opportunity that it presents us with. Ulster University's Economic Policy Centre estimates that a reduction in our rate of corporation tax to 12·5% could generate some 40,000 additional jobs here by 2033, on top of everything else that is going on. That is equivalent to an increase in economic output of around 10%. That is the size of the prize that is in front of us.”
“We must find a way to address these issues. The alternative is swingeing cuts to departmental resource budgets in this financial year and much more pain to come. The reductions, for example, to our resource departmental expenditure limit (DEL) budget to offset welfare savings not achieved are estimated to increase to nearly £200 million next year, some £283 million in 2017-18 and rising to £366 million in 2018-19. We will also be faced with significant costs in developing new IT systems to deliver welfare payments here. Furthermore, the procurement of such systems before the existing ones become obsolete will be a huge challenge. All that is well known but worth reiterating to remind Members of the critical importance of us all doing our level best to find a solution to the current impasse. The alternative is simply not workable.”
“All in-year changes will then be reflected in the spring Supplementary Estimates, which are usually brought to the Assembly in February. I expect that the legislative process will be no different this year. However, as I have repeatedly said, the uncertainties about our Budget position are much more severe than usual due to the lack of agreement on implementing welfare reform, which puts in jeopardy the financial flexibility included in the Stormont House Agreement.”
“The Committee plays a vital role in the scrutiny of the Executive's draft Budgets and I welcome its continuing work in this area as we look ahead to setting the Budget position for the coming years in the autumn. <BR /> <BR />The timing of the Executive's next Budget will depend on when the UK Government complete their spending review for 2016-17 and beyond. Regardless of the timescales that are involved, I look forward to constructive engagement with the Committee for Finance and Personnel in the deliberation on our next Budget. <BR /> <BR />Returning to this financial year, Members will be aware that this Budget Bill is not the end of the budgetary legislative process. There will undoubtedly be, as indeed there are every year, substantial changes agreed to departmental budgets through the Executive's monitoring rounds.”
“The passing of the Final Stage of the Budget Bill by the Assembly will facilitate legislative cover for Departments and other public bodies to deliver services in this financial year. I must emphasise again the critical importance of this legislation completing its passage through the Assembly. <BR /> <BR />I have listened with interest to the debate over the last few weeks. It is a debate that has covered many important issues, not only relevant in the current financial year but for the future of Northern Ireland. I thank everyone who has contributed and, once again, place on record my thanks to the Committee for Finance and Personnel for its role in ensuring that this Bill could pass through the Assembly via accelerated passage.”
“I therefore ask Members to continue to support the Bill to ensure that the cash and resources are authorised for the 2015-16 financial year.”
“Its record does not fill me with great hope in terms of solutions coming forward. Let us be very clear: if Sinn Féin does not step up to the mark, our national Government must intervene to protect all the vulnerable in Northern Ireland and all the people who use public services. I am interested in all the vulnerable people of Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />I will draw my remarks to a close. I hope that most Members have had a response to the issues that they raised during the debate, although it is not always possible to cover every issue in detail. This Budget Bill underpins all our public services, and, for that reason, it is imperative that the legislation continues its passage through the Assembly.”
“It was about allowing us to have the legislative framework to bring about mitigations; but, of course, that was rejected by the parties opposite, and now we do not have the framework to bring in those mitigations. <BR /> <BR />It is very hard to follow the logic of what has happened over the past number of months. We hear a lot of talk about the vulnerable, but the Bill that would have allowed us to mitigate the worst excesses of welfare reform has now gone, and therefore we do not have any legislative framework to deal with those issues. The penalties continue. The Sinn Féin/SDLP/Green cuts, as I call them, continue. That amounts to £9·5 million every month — £114 million this year, and, of course, that will increase next year. I look forward to Sinn Féin's plans on how it will help all the vulnerable in Northern Ireland.”
“<BR /> <BR />I go back to the fact that this is the democratic decision of our sovereign Parliament. We can, we do and we will challenge decisions in debates on welfare. Our Members will be in the House of Commons to do that; but once a decision has been taken, we have to deal with reality. That is what Scotland has done. That is what Wales has done. Why are we in Northern Ireland not able to deal with the reality of the public finances that have been given to us by the Westminster Government? Indeed, sometimes, when we are given those decisions on funding by Westminster, we add in protections, and I have already mentioned freezing the regional rate and issues like that. That is what we were doing with the welfare Bill.”
“She made the very important point that welfare reform was not just about welfare recipients but was about other vulnerable people too. Cuts to public services would have a huge impact on them, particularly cuts to parts of the health service, as we have heard today. That is an important point and one that should be reflected on. <BR /> <BR />Finally, Mr Murphy clarified the deputy First Minister's support for the Budget. He said that it was conditional on workable and sustainable finances in the year ahead, and that further cuts would damage public services. Of course, if we do not have welfare reform implemented, that would damage public services very much. He talked about tax avoidance and tax evasion by the very rich and again made reference to welfare reform being imposed on us by the Tories.”
“Do we think that people are better off in work than on welfare? Yes, we do, absolutely; we want to give them a pathway into work. That is why the development and growth of the economy is front and centre of everything this party does. We are quite happy to say where we stand on all those issues, contrary to the suggestion that we are not. <BR /> <BR />There was a reference to the need to engage in national politics — absolutely — and that Sinn Féin's paralysis is all about the Republic of Ireland and the elections in that jurisdiction: that is true. Mr McCallister finished off by saying that it was time to govern. <BR /> <BR />Ms Sugden said that everything we do follows on from the Budget. That is right: it is the only option in front of us.”
“The UK average is £8,678. So he is right to say that our public expenditure is £2,000 higher than the UK average. <BR /> <BR />He talked about the abandonment of social mobility by the nationalist parties. Again, he referenced Mr Attwood's desire for radical middle politics, and made the very important point that the Stormont House Agreement is balanced and comprehensive, with a lot more in it than welfare reform. Of course, if welfare reform is not implemented, then the cards fall away. <BR /> <BR />Mr McKay intervened and said that he wished that parties were honest about where they stood on some of these issues. Let me be very clear for the benefit of Sinn Féin. It was this party that voted against welfare reform at Westminster. It was this party that sought and achieved concessions on the most severe aspects of welfare reform.”
“Mr McCallister talked about the irresponsibility of the Greens, the SDLP and Sinn Féin. He talked about the use of the petition of concern. If he looks at the Stormont House Agreement — and it all comes back to the Stormont House Agreement — he will find that that includes suggestions on the petition of concern. It discusses proposals for developing a protocol on the use of the petition of concern. <BR /> <BR />He talked about how the Republic of Ireland dealt with very difficult issues. It is because the Republic has dealt with those difficult issues that it is now in a growth position and on a solid foundation, and we wish them well with that. He touched on the public expenditure, per head, on the people of Northern Ireland. Our identifiable public expenditure is £10,961 per head. It is £9,924 in Wales and £10,275 in Scotland.”
“Air passenger duty, of course, is not just a Northern Ireland problem. It is something that affects all the regions of the United Kingdom. If it was devolved to us, under the Azores ruling, we would have to have a cut in our block grant to deal with that. However, on one of Mr McCallister's points, I am very happy to make the point at a regional level right across the United Kingdom that air passenger duty should be cut, working particularly with some of the regions in England — the north-east region, for example — which are disadvantaged because of air passenger duty.”
“Even if it does go ahead, we will engage with Her Majesty's Treasury because, of course, there may well be Barnett consequentials in relation to HS2.”
“with an overarching goal to improve economic competitiveness and have the key drivers of innovation, research and development and skills. So we do have a regional economic strategy and are already doing what he spoke of, which is to say to companies in London, "You could do things better in Belfast." That has proved very successful. We have been able to bring firms like Citi, Allen and Overy, and Herbert Smith Freehills over to Belfast from London, and they have found that to be a very good experience. <BR /> <BR />He talked about HS2 and the fact that it was costing £50 billion and asked whether, if it did not go ahead, we would be able to talk to Treasury about gaining some of the capital from that.”
“I will engage with my counterparts in Scotland, Wales and Westminster on the comprehensive spending review, but when a decision is taken, we have to deal with reality. A decision was taken on welfare reform some time ago, and I think he acknowledged that. He made reference to the need for a regional economic strategy. Of course, we have a regional economic strategy, which I know a little bit about because I launched it back in 2012. I said in the foreword to that 'Economic Strategy' that it was a strategy:”
“Mr McNarry indicated a desire to do things differently and to look at outcomes rather than processes, and I agree with that. <BR /> <BR />Mr McCrea let us into his life when he told us that he spent time watching the Finance Committee at home of an evening. I commiserated with him on that. He quoted me as saying that, without welfare reform, it is an impossible Budget. That is absolutely right; that is what I said. He asked about the voluntary exit scheme and the fact that savings were factored in but that we cannot get those savings unless there is a Budget. Worse than that, of course, we will not have the money until there is a full implementation of the Stormont House Agreement. <BR /> <BR />He talked about the need for us to work together to oppose further cuts, and that is right.”
“He indicated that we are sleepwalking into financial chaos. He wants to look at how we can change the way in which we deliver government. I mentioned that that is very much something that we need to address in terms of public-sector reform and using new technologies. He mentioned that in-year monitoring is used to patch up poor Budget planning. I do not accept that. Monitoring is used to reallocate resources when unforeseen circumstances arise, and it has actually been working well. With a capital budget in excess of £7 billion, there will always be some slippage on projects. I am sure that the Member would rather that we had a monitoring round to reallocate that capital than send it back to Her Majesty's Treasury in London.”
“There were few of us in the Chamber when you started your speech, Mr McNarry, so obviously some people thought that it was something to be missed.”
“He said that our single policy intervention was corporation tax. That, of course, is absolute and utter nonsense. I have made reference to many of the interventions that the Executive have been engaged in, not least our economy and jobs initiative, which brought about many of the jobs that I have referred to. He said that we should put people first without realising, of course, that businesses are made up of people. Businesses are made up of people who want to work and have the challenge of going to work every day. People work as well as receiving welfare benefits, Mr Agnew, and you should acknowledge that. <BR /> <BR />And so to today. Mr McNarry said that this was an occasion not to be missed.”
“Yes, but, the point I am making is that when I tried to challenge him on Monday night, first, he would not let me in, and secondly, he said that global recovery was all to do with job creation here in Northern Ireland. Not once did he make reference to the fact that we had just come through one of the worst recessions that the world had ever had. That had nothing to do with the loss of productivity in Northern Ireland, apparently. We have a huge public sector here in Northern Ireland and we need to grow the private sector to deal with that productivity gap. We should be investing more in research and development and we should be spending more on innovation and encouraging firms to spend on that.”
“If you can wait. <BR /> <BR />Yet, the global recession had absolutely nothing to do with the loss of productivity. No; it was all our fault that we lost productivity, if I recall what he said. Global recession is nothing to do with the loss of productivity here in Northern Ireland, but global recovery is the reason for the increase in the number of jobs that we have here. I read very carefully what he said about those matters. Unlike him, I will take an intervention.”
“<BR /> <BR />Mr Agnew also said that my record as Enterprise Minister and the Executive's record on job creation did not really matter and that devolution had not made any difference to job creation in Northern Ireland. He said that global recovery was the reason why we were seeing more jobs coming to Northern Ireland, despite the fact, and Mr McCallister made the point very well, that we have the highest rate of foreign direct investment in the United Kingdom per capita. That is all down to the global recovery.”
“Of course, less than 1% of properties are valued at over £400,000. That would bring in £7·65 million, which is less than the £9·5 million in penalties we have to pay out each month. It would not even cover the penalties for one month. <BR /> <BR />He also said that he could not understand why I said that that money was lost to us in the block grant because people were still receiving their welfare payments and so the money was not lost to Northern Ireland. However, welfare payment comes out of annually managed expenditure; it does not come through the consolidated fund. The money goes directly to welfare recipients. Meanwhile, we are losing £9·5 million from our block grant consolidated fund every month. I did not hear anything about that from the Member.”
“As to the loss of the £200 million for this year, the RRI borrowing for the voluntary exit scheme is included in the £600 million because we do not have the loan to deal with those issues. That is still there. The savings that we would have had from the £200 million will not be realised either. <BR /> <BR />I will move on to Mr Agnew, who cast himself in the role of a latter-day Chairman Mao with his great leap forward as to how he was going to solve the problems of Northern Ireland: and we all recall what a great success that was. First, he wanted to deal with the rates cap, as he felt that that would be a fundamental issue in moving forward. Indeed, I see that his colleague has written an article in the 'News Letter' today, again saying that it would be a great thing to help deal with the problems in Northern Ireland.”
“So there are a challenging few days ahead on June monitoring.”
“<BR /> <BR />He asked about the composition of the £604 million pressure. It is comprised of the resource DEL pressures that would arise from the Stormont House Agreement not proceeding, and an additional amount to allow the Executive to take decisions on the possible reallocation of resources to address the significant inescapable pressures emerging in some Departments. <BR /> <BR />He asked whether any money reflecting the cost of the exit scheme was included in that £600 million. Yes, it is included in the £600 million. He asked when the June monitoring statement was coming. That is being analysed. However, it is clear that it will be a hugely difficult monitoring round. There are significant pressures in many Departments and no resources available to address them — that is without taking account of the Stormont House Agreement.”