Arlene Foster
Fermanagh and South Tyrone · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Yet, like too many projects, it has been tied up in legal wrangles. Too many infrastructure projects are being swallowed up in the courts. We need to improve the expertise in infrastructure delivery. We need better infrastructure for the next generation, but key projects being delayed by 10-plus years is unsustainable.”
“Any agreement involves compromises but NDNA had two central pillars that, I believe, remain important: ambition for devolution and a new cultural deal. The breadth and depth of issues that NDNA set us all to deliver on would have been enough to fill an entire term or perhaps more, let alone two years of government.”
“That confidence-and-supply agreement will leave a legacy but also highlights our challenges. Some £150 million has been rolled out via Project Stratum to bring broadband to rural areas and leave Northern Ireland as the best-connected region in Europe. When it is completed, the project will be transformational to our economy.”
“However, such short-term advantage comes at the cost of long-term harm to relationships. It is not a real partnership. Imbalance and instability are built in that will fester and deteriorate. If Brussels continues to think that the protocol is enough, it is in denial.”
“Colleagues inside and outside the House know very well that all periods of leadership must come to an end. That is why, when we are privileged and, indeed, honoured to hold such a position, we must not waste a moment in frivolous brinkmanship but forge ahead on behalf of those whom we represent.”
“The recommendations of the Commission on Flags, Identity, Culture and Tradition (FICT) are to be taken forward as well. I encourage all of you to do all of it, to take it forward in its totality and to speak of and implement it as one complete, independent package: a new cultural deal for Northern Ireland's new century.”
The complete record
Every one of 3,345 lines we hold for Arlene Foster, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 7 of 67.
“Mr Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to speak to this Matter of the Day. It is a very important matter, of course. The actions of the European Union on Friday last have caused significant dismay and distress, as the Member who secured the Matter of the Day said. It was wrong and unnecessary, and I think that we all know that that was the case. The first strike by the European Union of triggering article 16 at the very first opportunity and without consultation — without, it appears, thought for or consideration of the welfare of the people of Northern Ireland — has rightly been condemned by all. <BR /> <BR />First, it is important to be clear about what the European Union did.”
“First of all, we have been very open about the outcome in terms of an inquiry, so we are not closing our minds to anything that comes from the reference group. It is important that that is the case, because it is up to them to decide what they need. <BR /> <BR />Secondly, we will continue to engage. It is fair to say that we have been a little disappointed about the engagement with the historical institutional abuse scheme by some of the institutions, but we will continue to push for that, because it is right and proper that there is recognition by the institutions of what went on in the name of religion and society at that time, and there needs to be recompense for that.”
“There was recognition right across the Executive that it was such an important issue that we had to respect the privacy of it until the victims were made aware of the issues and the way forward before the general public. That is really important. <BR /> <BR />With regard to continual engagement with the Republic of Ireland, we will, certainly, push very hard to have full access to those adoption records — again, respecting individuals' privacy because we absolutely must respect their privacy. There is a need to get further into the whole adoption procedure and whether, indeed, there was informed consent at that time or just a paper consent for a lot of those adoptions.”
“I thank the Member for her comments. When she has the opportunity to look at the full report, when it is published later this afternoon, she will see that every care has been taken by the research team to try to reflect all that went on. To me, the team has done that really well, even by cutting down on academic language so that people would be able to engage with the report in an open way. I welcome that. <BR /> <BR />The Executive received the paper last evening. We felt that it was important that the victims had first sight of it. Yesterday, there was engagement with the reference group about the executive summary. We received the paper last night. I am pleased to say that there were no leaks about the paper. That is, probably, a first for me, standing here, actually.”
“However, we felt very strongly that it was up to the survivors and victims to design the process that they wanted because — again, referring to other jurisdictions — sometimes, if there is a very legalistic approach, it does not actually capture what happened in those places. I am not prejudging what will come back to us as a recommendation. We will have to wait and see. We hope that the leadership that Judith Gillespie has given to the group and the facilitation that will take place will allow it to come forward with a workable programme that can be taken forward in as short a time as possible.”
“We want to recognise what the Member said about his own memories. It would have been the easiest thing for us today to say that, having looked at the research, we believe that there is a need for a public inquiry.”
“I thank the Member for her question and for her point about her area and what she knows about burials. This morning, the urgency of dealing with the issue was raised with us. We were all incredibly moved on the call when the point was made that planning permission will come and there will be no stopping what goes on. We have to respect the dignity of burial places, even though they are unmarked. Judith Gillespie will want to get to that quickly in the work that she is taking forward.”
“Absolutely. I confirm that we will look into where babies were interred and where their last resting places are. There are distressing accounts of mass graves, and we want to be alert to that and look into it as sensitively as we can, given the horrific nature of some of the burials. We will look in greater detail at infant mortality as we move forward.”
“Others were a step removed from the Churches, although it is clear that there was an influence there when you see the number of referrals and where they came from. An interesting part of the research will be to look at how women ended up in mother-and-baby homes and where were they referred from, so we will need to access Church records. <BR /> <BR />In relation to the Republic of Ireland, the deputy First Minister and I have already engaged with Roderic O'Gorman, the Minister in the Republic responsible for the issue. That will be an ongoing conversation on the adoption issue.”
“To take the last point first, as I understand it, the Minister of Health has written to all the relevant state agencies here to make sure that they protect the documents in our possession so that they are not destroyed. That is really important. I imagine that an instruction such as that from the Minister will be adhered to by those agencies, but I get the point that the Member makes and will take that back to the Minister. <BR /> <BR />In terms of the adoption records, as you will know, some of those institutions are Church-based, so we will need to engage with some of the Churches.”
“I thank the Member for her comments and her question. When we are dealing with victims and survivors, whether from the Troubles, from historical institutional abuse or, as in this case, from having been in or having been born in a mother-and-baby home, we have to respect the fact that some people do not want to come forward and reflect on what happened to them. We have to respect the right to privacy of those women and, indeed, of some of those children. What is important is that, if someone wants to come forward and is in need of support, we have the supports in place to make sure that those services are there. That is what we are challenged to do now, and we have to meet that challenge. It is only right that we do.”
“Yes, we are concerned about infant mortality, because we just do not have the information to hand, so we want to do more work on that. It appears that maternal mortality was better in Northern Ireland, because, it appears, most women went into a hospital or private nursing home to have their babies. What happened directly after they left is something that we are concerned about, and we just want to get to the bottom of that. That is one of the key issues that we will do more research on.”
“It is important that we acknowledge that, not to point the finger of blame but to acknowledge what has happened, and that we now get into the full investigation, because that is really important.”
“Yes, I absolutely agree with the Member. It does not matter where the abuse took place; it was abuse, and we need to recognise that. I am hopeful that that work will be completed soon. I will come back to the Member with a time frame for that; I do not have it in my notes today. If anyone has suffered clerical abuse and is not covered by the historical institutional abuse team, certainly I cannot see Fiona Ryan, as commissioner, closing the door on those people. If the Member has anyone from that background who is having difficulty in accessing services, he should please let us know, because we want to be as inclusive as we can to support those people and to do what Mr Catney said about trying to heal what happened in the past. We always say that the first thing to do is to acknowledge what has happened.”
“I absolutely concur with the Member's commentary. Yes, we do have to reflect on actions that were taken in society. That is key. Although the state was a big actor and the Churches were involved, we all need to reflect on the attitudes that existed across society at the time. The research talks about how families had such an influence on some of those women and about how older brothers did not want their sister to bring shame on the family so that is why she was sent away to a mother-and-baby home. There is very little reference to the fathers of any of the children who were born in the homes. <BR /> <BR />I concur with what the Member said about healing. It is important that we do that right across the piece, because those mother-and-baby homes existed for all of the community, and I referenced that in the statement.”
“The Member touches on the redress issue. After the commissioning of an investigation in the Republic of Ireland, a number of issues were identified that needed to be taken forward, including redress. We are not at that stage yet, because we have not taken forward the investigation proper, as it were. When we come to that, I am sure that a number of areas will be looked into. A number of children were adopted into different jurisdictions off the island, and how those people can be contacted will cause some concern. We are at the beginning of the process. The research document is very meaningful and gives us a very good starting point from which to move on to the discussion about what happens next, but the issues of redress and contacting people outside the jurisdiction will be worked through during the coming months.”
“Those are reasons that young women were put into Magdalene laundries. I find that incredible, and people will be shocked to read that. There are also references to women coming to the Belfast laundry to escape communal rough justice. <BR /> <BR />If, after looking at that, there is evidence, it should absolutely be investigated by the police to see what can be done.”
“The Member raises a very interesting point that came from evidence from the laundries. In St Mary's laundry in Londonderry, there were references to:”
“There was nothing good about what happened to those children and women. We need to reflect on that and work with the victims and survivors to make sure that their voices are heard. Importantly, we also need to state, very clearly and unequivocally, that it was so wrong.”
“Absolutely. To put it in context, you have to look at society during those years and the attitude towards women who became pregnant at a young age. For me, the most difficult part of the research was reading about children who were raped or were the victims of incest, and who were victimised again by being put into those homes. It was not their fault that they were raped or were the victims of incest, yet they were the ones who suffered, and it appears that those who perpetrated the crimes got off scot-free. There is a huge issue with that, and we need to look at that and ask ourselves some pretty difficult questions about society. <BR /> <BR />Last night, I reflected to one of the victims and survivors that we sometimes look back with rose-tinted glasses and refer to the "good old days".”
“Women also seem to have stayed for shorter periods in mother-and-baby homes, and women and babies appear to have left at the same time. The adoption legislation was also different, but, as I said, we will look into the whole issue of adoption and conduct more research. Importantly, there was no evidence of vaccine trials. There was a lot of concern about that because of what happened elsewhere. <BR /> <BR />There were, of course, the same issues of stigma here as in the Republic of Ireland, but there were also differences. Those will be reflected when people look at the research report.”
“As I said, there are a lot of similarities between what happened in the Republic of Ireland's jurisdiction and in our jurisdiction, but there are a number of differences. For example, there is no evidence of some of the appalling living conditions that were found by the commission. Indeed, there were expectations that living conditions in institutions here were of a higher standard than those in the general population. There were no unaccompanied children in mother-and-baby homes here, although that may have been the case earlier in some of the workhouses. Women gave birth here in hospitals or in private nursing homes, not in mother-and-baby homes, as happened in the Republic of Ireland. We think that, as a result, maternal mortality was not as big an issue here.”
“It has turned out that a third of the people in the Magdalene laundries were under that age. A lot of research has been carried out, and I commend the research teams not only for what they brought forward today but for the manner in which they went about their research. They looked at the literature review, they looked at archive documents and went to PRONI, but they also engaged with very many people who had been in the institutions as residents and with some staff members and people who referred others to the homes, so we get a rounded story and a very clear picture of what was going on at that time. <BR /> <BR />We will, of course, put funds into services and support, but they have to be the correct services and the correct support. We have given a commitment to the victims today that that support will be there.”
“I am disappointed with that reaction, because this is not about warm, woolly words; it is about action. When we met the victims' reference group today, we were very clear about that. We want to ensure that there is action, but we also want to ensure that it is the correct action and that the correct services are put in place. We could put a whole range of services in place, but if they are not appropriate and needed, frankly, what is the point of doing that? <BR /> <BR />When we talk about moving forward, it is right that we realise what happened in the past. The terms of reference for the historical institutional abuse inquiry were finalised in 2012. At that time, there was very little research on mother-and-baby homes. Indeed, there was a belief that most people in the Magdalene laundries were over 18.”
“I thank the Member for his comments. As I said, one of the issues that we want to look at is the adoption process, because babies were moved after birth into different jurisdictions, and we need to try to understand that. Some went to the United States of America, for example. How did that happen? What was the process for all that? <BR /> <BR />I hear what he is saying about intergenerational issues. We know that that is an issue with other victims and survivors, particularly victims of terrorism, who have raised how there can be intergenerational effects. The group should look at that, but, at the moment, we are focusing on the adoption piece and at infant mortality, because that is a concern for us.”
“It is about trying to get behind that and finding out whether it was actually informed consent or something that the person had to do in those circumstances. We will try to look across what happened not just in the Hart process but in other jurisdictions and to learn from those messages. It was suggested to us that perhaps we need to look at what is happening in countries like New Zealand. We will want to take all those issues into account. I am sure that Judith Gillespie will want to take those into account as she tries to find a way forward that is supportive and gets to the truth.”
“I thank the Member for her points and commentary, all of which were very well made. It is important to say that we need to learn from all the processes that have happened thus far. I note that some of the survivors were upset by the Commission of Investigation report in the Republic, because they felt that some of its language was too legalistic. Look at the adoption piece, for example. The commission indicated that there was no evidence to say that there were any forced adoptions because there was paperwork to show that the adoptions had been signed off. But of course we do not know the story behind that signature. We do not know what happened to bring about that signature on that piece of paper.”
“It is with great sadness that we reach this point and see the extent of what happened in the mother-and-baby homes and Magdalene laundries.”
“It is important to say that the support that is provided will depend on the needs that come forward from the victims themselves. It is important that they tell us the supports that they require. We have put some supports in place already through, as I said, WAVE attending the reference group, but we want to know if there are other issues that we can deal with. You will know from dealing with victims and survivors of any trauma, Mr Clarke, that the needs are different and varied. We need to take that into consideration to make sure that it is a flexible model that we provide for them. It is important that we try to take into account the experiences that they have lived through. This is such an important day for a lot of survivors but, as I said, is also a day of mixed emotions.”
“We are quite happy to have an ongoing, parallel discussion around the supports that need to be put in place.”
“We would much prefer it to happen faster than that, and that is the desire of many of the survivors as well. <BR /> <BR />We are absolutely committed to the provision of appropriate support for survivors, and that has been built into everything that we have been doing in the run-up to today. This morning, officials again discussed with members of the reference group the need for support, and how they need that support to help them co-design the process, as well as all of the other needs they have. To date, WAVE has been involved in reference group meetings. If there is a need to have any conversations, that support is there. We are also asking the co-design group to consider what further support they may need. That certainly does not need to wait until the conclusion of the six-month process.”
“I absolutely agree with all the Chair's sentiments. He said that it was "a long time ago". For those of us who are slightly older, it does not seem that long ago. In 1990, I was 20, so it is not that long ago in my world. We need to reflect today that it is not actually that long ago that those homes were still open. <BR /> <BR />The co-design process begins immediately. The deputy First Minister and I had the opportunity to meet Judith Gillespie and the reference group before we came here this afternoon, because we wanted to engage with them and reassure them that we want to work with them in designing what it is that they want to see happening as a result of the research. It is important to say that it will begin immediately. When we talk about "six months", we mean "up to six months".”
“Those who were harmed by their experience in those institutions have the right to be heard, both at this time and for the rest of their lifetime. <BR /> <BR />This is a long and detailed report. It contains important testimony from voices not heard before, and it took tremendous courage from all those who participated in the research. It demonstrates a faith in us and in society that we will properly listen and act to support them now. I commend the research to the House.”
“Their views will be given primacy in determining the way forward. They will be given the opportunity, over the next six months, to take part in work to define the aims of the investigation, who should take part, who should act as chair and how long it should take to complete. They will also be asked whether it should take place in public and whether it should be framed in law. A statutory public inquiry may well be the outcome of that process, but victims and survivors will be given the opportunity to influence that. <BR /> <BR />This is a day of mixed emotions. The research report presents a worrying account of what happened to women and girls simply because they were pregnant, and with that comes a real sense of sadness, but I hope that this will be the beginning of a healing journey for thousands of people.”
“The draft regulations will be subject to full public consultation, meaning that victims and survivors will have the opportunity to shape them. <BR /> <BR />The research report, to be published later today, is only the start of a process to allow the long-silenced voices of women and their children to be heard. For too long, they have carried a burden of shame and secrecy. Too often, their treatment by those in positions of power and trust caused them real harm and a lifetime of trauma. Today, the publication of the report shines a light into darkness, but there is more to do. <BR /> <BR />The Executive today agreed that an independent investigation will be carried out into those institutions, to be shaped by survivors, through a co-design process, and facilitated by experts. We will ensure that their voices are heard loud and clear.”
“<BR /> <BR />Tracing in connection with adoption is well established here; it has been in place for more than 30 years. There are plans to develop that further and strengthen existing arrangements under new adoption legislation, the adoption and children Bill, which the Minister of Health intends to introduce in the Chamber in March. There are powers in the Bill to make regulations intended to assist adopted adults to obtain information about their adoption and to facilitate contact between an adopted person, their birth relatives and, for the first time, birth relatives and descendants of adopted people. Regulations made under the Bill will introduce new legal rights to intermediary and other services, such as counselling or access to information and advice.”
“<BR /> <BR />The research identified that many records are not held in appropriate conditions and may be at risk of deterioration. Preserving documents relevant to any investigation is of great importance, as failure to do so could prejudice further work and may hinder the learning of important lessons. It may also hinder the proper recognition of any harm done to individuals and prevent appropriate amends being made to them. Those records are of significant historical importance and may also assist adopted people wishing to trace their birth relatives. As a result, the Health Minister has already written to the relevant institutions and record holders, asking them to ensure that their records are maintained in line with best archival practice, and to take steps now to prevent their destruction.”
“<BR /> <BR />None of us should be proud of how our society shunned women in those circumstances or what they experienced in those institutions. The research is comprehensive — the report runs to around 550 pages — and, as I have said, includes the rich testimony of women and their children with direct personal experience of those institutions. <BR /> <BR />There are a number of unanswered questions, particularly in relation to adoption and infant mortality. Today, the Executive agreed to undertake a further independent investigation into the institutions. Before I set out what that means, I want to let Members know about a number of other important steps already being taken to ensure appropriate access to records and information relevant to those institutions.”
“Some questions about adoption and infant mortality rates remain unanswered and will require further examination. <BR /> <BR />We welcome the research report. This is an important day for those women who were resident in mother-and-baby institutions and Magdalene laundries. The research gives an account of their individual and collective experiences and reminds us of the importance of the developments and progress of recent decades in how we treat the most vulnerable, including children. <BR /> <BR />It is with huge regret that we acknowledge the pain of those experiences and the hurt caused to women and girls, who did nothing more than be pregnant outside marriage — some of them criminally against their will.”
“There was huge stigma attached to pregnancy outside marriage. Women and girls were admitted by families, doctors, priests and state agencies. As I have already said, they were required to undertake tough domestic duties late into pregnancy. They had little preparation for childbirth, and some had cold and castigating birth experiences. There were also key differences, but it is for a further investigation to draw those out. I will say more about that shortly. <BR /> <BR />There was also the cross-border movement of women and children into and out of those institutions. In the same way that women from this jurisdiction were admitted to mother-and-baby homes across the border, as reflected already, women from across the border were also admitted to homes here.”
“That inquiry concluded that it was unacceptable for such young girls to be expected to do industrial work of this type and considered that it "amounted to systemic abuse". Work was carried out without pay, and some women spent a lifetime in a laundry, died and were buried from there. <BR /> <BR />I am mindful that this report is following, in quick succession, the publication of the Commission of Investigation’s report of two weeks ago. Comparisons will undoubtedly be drawn between both jurisdictions. The research report reveals strong similarities with the experience of women reported by the commission.”
“Women with learning disabilities and mental health issues also entered these institutions, and there is evidence of admissions triggered by our past: some teenage girls and women were being sheltered from forms of community rough justice. <BR /> <BR />Oral testimony collected by the researchers, as well as that for the Hart inquiry, suggests that physical punishment was rare in the context of the Good Shepherd laundries here. Instead, discipline was instilled by the regimented regime, and by other forms of punishment. Girls and women were given class names, and there was a significantly greater number of children under the age of 18 in the laundries than the historical institutional abuse inquiry was able to identify.”
“He has committed to considering the scope for cooperation in the area of adoption linked to mother-and-baby homes. I put on record the sensitivity around adoption: many women and adopted children may not want to be found. We need to always be mindful of that and to respect the rights and wishes of individuals. <BR /> <BR />I move now to the Magdalene laundries. Nearly 3,000 girls and women are estimated to have entered the three Good Shepherd/St Mary’s homes, and a further 707 women and girls entered Thorndale industrial home, which operated as a "girls’ training home" and as a probation home for women sent by the police, courts and social services. Women and girls entered by a number of routes, one of which was from mother-and-baby institutions.”
“Given that some children were transferred to other jurisdictions, including across the border, it could also require access to adoption records held in those jurisdictions. <BR /> <BR />What is indisputable is that there was a considerable movement of babies from Northern Ireland to the Republic of Ireland, in significant numbers: 202 babies from Marianvale from 1957 to 1982; 171 from Marianville from 1950 to 1990; 120 from Mater Dei from 1942 to 1970; and 58 from Thorndale from 1930 to 1970. How that came to be raises many more questions — questions that require answers. <BR /> <BR />The Health Minister, Judith Gillespie and the deputy First Minister and I have already raised the issue with the Minister of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth in the Republic of Ireland, Roderic O’Gorman.”
“<BR /> <BR />Since 1929, when adoption legislation was enacted here, a mother's consent to adoption has been required, although, in later years, a court could dispense with consent in certain circumstances. A number of the oral testimonies raise concerns over the issue of informed consent for adoption. Most commonly, those testimonies feature discussion of the traumatic, and sometimes pressurised, circumstances in which often very young women were asked to make decisions about adoption. In a smaller number of cases, testimonies include allegations of irregularities around the signatures on consent forms. Without access to adoption records, it is difficult to conclude that legal and procedural requirements in adoptions were followed in all cases.”
“The research report does not reach firm conclusions about the rates of infant mortality in mother-and-baby homes. That is mainly because mothers and their children did not remain there for long periods, unlike the position in the Republic of Ireland as outlined in the Commission of Investigation’s report. The researchers are clear that firm conclusions can be reached only through an examination of the records of those other institutions that babies were sent to. Members should note that an estimated 32% of infants were sent to baby homes following separation from their birth mother. Other babies were boarded out, or fostered, in today’s terms, and others — around a quarter — were placed for adoption.”
“While a small number of women offered a more positive account of life in the mother-and-baby homes, others spoke of strenuous physical labour being expected of them late into their pregnancy. On the basis of the information available to the researchers, it is thought that, across the entire period, around 4% of the babies were either stillborn or died shortly after birth. That can be compared with data held by the Registrar General for the period between 1961 and 1980, which indicates that around 7·8% of neonatal babies born outside of marriage died in their first month of life or were stillborn.”
“Around 11·5% of the women and girls crossed the border, and a small number came from Great Britain and elsewhere. The youngest child to be admitted was just 12 years old. Shockingly, around a third of those admitted were under the age of 19. The majority were in the 20-to-29 age group. The oldest person to be admitted was a 44-year-old woman. Appallingly, a number were victims of sexual crime, including rape and incest. <BR /> <BR />The living conditions and care arrangements for women in the mother-and-baby homes are difficult to determine from the archival records, as very little was recorded about them. However, the personal oral testimonies provide a greater insight into the lived experience.”
“Given reports elsewhere, the researchers were also asked to determine whether there was evidence to support concerns about post-mortem practices and procedures and whether there was evidence of vaccine or medical trials. There was a specific emphasis on the practice around adoption, particularly consent to adoption. <BR /> <BR />I will give Members a sense of the headline findings in the research, starting with the mother-and-baby homes. All of us should be shocked to find that over 10,500 women entered mother-and-baby homes over that 68-year period. That is likely to be a conservative estimate. The records relating to mother-and-baby homes are not complete for all the institutions. A high percentage of the women and girls — around 86% — were from Northern Ireland. The others were from outside the jurisdiction.”
“It involved a literature review and examined archive records, for example those in the Public Record Office of Northern Ireland (PRONI). Importantly, it sought and obtained the personal testimonies of women with experience of the institutions and their now-adult children. The research is so much richer and real because of that testimony of lived experience. It also obtained oral accounts from others with a connection to the institutions, because they either worked there or were involved in placing women and girls there. <BR /> <BR />Under the terms of reference for the research, the universities looked at how and why women and girls entered the institutions and where they and their babies went when they left. Living conditions and care arrangements were considered, as were maternal and infant mortality rates.”