Naomi Long
East Belfast · Alliance Party · Northern Ireland
“Underneath the Facebook posts to say that he had passed away, people speculated with such comments as, "Probably high on drugs", "Probably drunk", and, "Typical boy racer". There was all of that speculation. It was hurtful to the family, and it was inaccurate.”
“There are circumstances that we need to consider and be careful of. I was told, for example, that, when the issue of good character references at trial was being looked at in New South Wales — Committee members may wish to look at this for themselves — one of the groups that opposed their removal was representative of domestic abuse victi…”
“It sets out the strategic direction adopted by the Department and key partners to tackle those appalling crimes and protect vulnerable victims of exploitation.”
“The provision seeks to provide protection, via legal advice and representation for complainants, against the use of non-relevant personal material and evidence of previous sexual history being used in the court process.”
“<BR /> <BR />On the wider issue of ensuring that a withdrawal of services never happens again, I think that most of us agree that, although everyone has the right to take industrial action, no one has the right to derail and hold to ransom the entire justice system in that way.”
“Those measures will go some way towards helping to support complainants and enable them to have input into the decision-making process about what records containing their personal and sensitive information are required to be shared with the defence.”
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“If we are to see prisoners come out of prison and not reoffend, it is important that they have the opportunity for productive activity during the day and have access to mental health and addiction services, because many of them will trace their offending back to addiction. It is also important that they have stable accommodation. We are doing some bail support pilot work for people who are currently on remand. We will pilot that first with women in the prison system, and that will require cooperation between all those Departments.”
“It will support employers who want to employ people with a criminal record and help them feel confident about taking forward those employment opportunities.”
“We have had a number of conversations over many years, and, through the Executive, the Ministers are part of the wider programme to reduce offending and reoffending and sit on the programme board to drive that initiative forward. We recognise that stable accommodation, legitimate employment and the availability of mental health and addiction services are three key things that will help people to reintegrate into the community and build a successful and positive life. Family support is another pillar that can make a huge difference, and we do all we can to allow people to maintain it. <BR /> <BR />There is a role for all the Departments. We need to find better jobs for people, and the Department has recently launched an organisation called The Bridge, which is business-led.”
“Many of those services are provided by third-sector partners in the community and voluntary sector, and the uncertainty that faces their budgets is also a challenge for Justice. Ultimately, poorer experiences in custody will lead to poorer outcomes on release and a greater likelihood of reoffending, which perpetuates the damaging cycle that we have and results in more victims of crime. Without proper funding, Prison Service cannot fulfil its core purpose of making the community safer by supporting and challenging people to change.”
“The budgetary pressure on the Prison Service, as with other parts of the justice system, can mean difficult choices and poorer outcomes for those in the prison system. If we are to safely manage significant and sustained population increases, the Prison Service must have enough officers with the right training and support to do their jobs. It also needs a modern fit-for-purpose estate that can accommodate the population safely and reduce crowding. Prisoners need to be able to access the services and support delivered by a range of partners that can address their needs and risks. <BR /> <BR />Prison Service needs the funding to commission the services required to match the level of need.”
“I will continue my work to secure a fair budget settlement for Justice, including the funding required to deliver a safe, effective and efficient Prison Service with rehabilitation at its core. I will also continue to be clear about the consequences if that cannot be achieved.”
“On 1 June 2023, the total prison population in Northern Ireland was 1,858. By June of this year, the population had increased by over 12% to 2,086. It is to the credit of the Northern Ireland Prison Service (NIPS) and its staff that prison establishments have maintained stability and continue to perform effectively despite that pressure. <BR /> <BR />In many cases, justice responses to individual needs and risks may offer the right answers but at the wrong time. Much more could be achieved if there were a collective focus on prevention in the community, rather than the justice system stepping in when earlier opportunities have been missed or when provision was inadequate. That would also mean fewer people in prison, and it would allow the Prison Service to use its resources effectively.”
“It is not an unknown thing that the Youth Justice Agency has no experience of, but I reassure the Member for Upper Bann that we would not want to make rapid changes in a space where we do not have the proper belt-and-braces response in place. We want to be sure that young people are protected. Often, their behaviour is not just a safeguarding issue for them but a danger to others, and we need to make sure that there are proper checks and balances in place to hold young people to account for their conduct but in an age-appropriate manner.”
“We have already been clear that we will have to introduce the right structures, and those will have to be scrutinised and stress-tested. That will be the start of a journey, not the end point. We would not enable the legislation immediately, because we will want to spend time with our justice partners looking at the mechanisms that need to be in place. <BR /> <BR />To be clear, the Youth Justice Agency already deals with many young people who fall into that category or exhibit behaviour that falls short of a criminal offence in order to deflect them from criminal settings and deal with their behaviour.”
“It should be on looking at the evidence base that we have on child development and brain development and how we can support our young people better so that they do not offend but instead become well-adjusted, positive and constructive citizens in our community, which is what we would all like to see.”
“It is not about creating a structure that would allow those who commit serious offences to get off scot-free and not be held accountable; it is about creating an accountability framework that is not part of the formal criminal justice system but allows young people to be confronted with the seriousness of their actions and for the necessary support and education to be provided to them so that they can desist from their offending behaviours. I therefore believe that, in such cases, appropriate measures would be taken. <BR /> <BR />It is often said that hard cases make bad law, so, in debating what the minimum age of criminal responsibility should be, our focus should not be on seeking out hypothetical hard cases.”
“With respect, the Member has a right to put his question, but I have the right to answer in whatever form I choose, and I will choose to answer in my own words and not those provided to me. <BR /> <BR />As I stand here now, if someone under the minimum age of criminal responsibility commits a serious offence, we do not simply allow that person to go free. There are issues of public protection that have to be considered. Issues concerning that child and the risk at which they have placed themselves have to be considered, as do risks to other potential victims.”
“<BR /> <BR />We also know that we have restricted resources, so to spend huge amounts of time looking at every child who is referred into the system in order to make that decision is to spend money that would be better spent on supporting those young people, diverting them from criminal activity, supporting their families and peers so that they are no longer as vulnerable to criminal activity and, hopefully, investing in support for victims. Our main concern is that we do right by society as a whole. By removing young people from the justice system, we have been able to demonstrate significant improvements in people's outcomes.”
“Were it to be reintroduced, we could end up running the risk of children of any age being referred into the formal justice system and considered potentially capable of understanding the crime that they had committed. We either accept that there is a minimum age of criminal responsibility or apply it differently. <BR /> <BR />The further concern that I have is that we would end up expending significant resources on determining whether a child has the understanding and capability to be held criminally accountable, when we already know from all the studies that have been done on children's development that, even where a child knows that they have done wrong, their ability to conceive of permanence, for example, can be challenging, even into their teens.”
“Those that tend to have better outcomes for their young people and safer communities are those that tend not to criminalise people at a young age but instead put in place the supports to protect them from potential criminal exploitation and to deal with potential offending behaviours at the earliest point so that young people do not go on to commit more serious offences.”
“I thank the Member. It is a long time since I studied Latin at school, and I doubt that my pronunciation is perfect, so either of us could be right on that. <BR /> <BR />Our understanding of how children's brains develop and the influences that can be brought to bear on them has moved on. We have a successful youth justice system that aims to deflect young children away from the criminal justice system at every stage and to support them and their families to tackle offending and dangerous behaviours. <BR /> <BR />It is important to look at what other jurisdictions do in that space.”
“The rules are already in place in the defence of coercion. They would apply in situations in which younger children are coerced into criminal activity and be dealt with under child criminal exploitation measures, in which case the offence is committed by the older person rather than the child. <BR /> <BR />If you do not raise the age of criminal responsibility, the danger is that young children will still be groomed into criminal gangs but, instead of being able to treat them as victims, the police will first have to process them as potential criminals. That has led to the criticism that too few children are being referred to the national referral mechanism (NRM) as a result of the coercive activity that led them to offend in the first place.”
“That is the most effective way to ensure that our communities are safer and that the number of victims is reduced.”
“<BR /> <BR />Reintroducing doli incapax would have a significant operational impact on justice partners, particularly the police and the Public Prosecution Service (PPS), who would be faced with having to process every child who is accused and arrested up to the point of an assessment and a decision being made. In many cases, that could be nugatory work at a time when resources are stretched. I therefore do not believe that returning to doli incapax is in the best interests of children, victims or communities. Instead, we should focus on working with children to help them to understand the impact and consequences of their behaviour, encourage them to take responsibility for their actions and support them to make changes and avoid future offending.”
“That is a scientific fact, and we should not force children to prove it to the courts. <BR /> <BR />Our understanding of the impact of trauma, adverse childhood incidents and societal factors on children has also increased in recent years, and we know that many of those factors can lead children into offending behaviour. That has resulted in the adoption of a child-first approach to youth offending. Consequently, the number of children facing prosecution has greatly reduced. Indeed, it is extremely rare for a child under the age of 14 to be sentenced to custody in Northern Ireland.”
“In England, Wales and Northern Ireland, the rebuttable presumption of doli incapax was abolished in 1998 as part of an overhaul of wider youth justice legislation. No consideration has been given to its reintroduction as part of my Department’s work to review and increase the minimum age of criminal responsibility (MACR). <BR /> <BR />Doli incapax enabled the prosecution of some younger children, if it could be proven that they had the cognitive maturity to understand that their actions represented serious wrongdoing. In the years since its abolition, advances in neuroscience have shown that children’s brains are still maturing well into adolescence and that they lack the cognitive, emotional and moral capacity to be held criminally responsible in the same way as adults.”
“I am more than happy to answer that. First, I draw the Member's attention to the fact that we do not currently have an ombudsman. It is therefore unfair to discuss a private individual and make allegations about how they conducted themselves in their role or how their office conducted itself. It is unhelpful for somebody who was formerly in the PSNI to make disparaging comments of that nature about the ombudsman's role and office. <BR /> <BR />Secondly, there is a theoretical possibility that, if the ombudsman believed that there was a serious breach that would have led to dismissal at the time, someone could be recalled. I hope that the Member is not suggesting that we should simply turn a blind eye to such a serious breach, given his previous role in PSD.”
“The second test is about whether there would be an impact on public confidence, and the third is about the seriousness of the allegation in question. The allegation would have to be of sufficient seriousness that, had it been brought up when the person was in service, they would have faced dismissal.”
“There will be two restrictions on what can happen. The first is that, in the case of anyone who has retired in the previous year, it will be for the Chief Constable to decide whether the threshold has been met; that mirrors the regulations in England and Wales. The second condition in England and Wales is that someone can be recalled only where the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC) agrees that that is appropriate. We do not have that facility, which is why the ombudsman would have to agree that. A series of conditions and tests would need to be met in the ombudsman's consideration of whether anything beyond a year may be considered. That would require the ombudsman to prove, first, that it would be proportionate, fair and reasonable to reopen the issue.”
“Officers who have already retired or who retire while we await Royal Assent will not be covered, so the provision is retrospective only in the sense that, as, for example, in the regulations for England and Wales, the period by which the Chief Constable can go back is a year. It does not open a can of worms by going back a lot further, because, for the provision to apply to someone, they would have had to retire after the legislation was introduced.”
“I tried to assuage those concerns. It is worth noting, however, that the regulation will apply only to someone who retires after the legislation becomes operational.”
“It simply gives the Chief Constable the option, where he believes that it will not be prejudicial to a future case if there are criminal proceedings and where he believes that it is important that that person is removed from their position speedily, to have the opportunity to do that. They can receive the report and decide not to act on it for a variety of reasons, including if they feel that it might prejudice a criminal investigation.”
“You are generous with your time, Paul. Thank you very much. <BR /> <BR />The other pertinent thing in this, which I raised in my opening remarks, is that, before the relevant authority forwards that to the Chief Constable and before the Chief Constable decides to proceed with disciplinary proceedings, they would, potentially, also have to liaise with PPS, to decide whether proceeding with disciplinary action could jeopardise any future criminal case. The problem is that the criminal investigation undertaken by PONI that would then go to the PPS often takes much longer than having incontrovertible evidence of gross misconduct. That does not mean that every case will end up in a special case hearing.”
“It is about setting out a new way forward for dealing with misconduct that matches the system in England and Wales and will hopefully match the system in Scotland down the line while protecting the PSNI from the accusation that officers are retiring either after having been found to be in breach or because they fear that it is about to be disclosed that they have done something inappropriate. Legacy will be dealt with through the legacy Bill or whatever mechanism the UK Government decide on. That is not what the amendment is about, which is routine misconduct in the PSNI.”
“I will clarify the point about retrospectivity. The issue is that, first, it would give the Chief Constable or the employing authority the same power as there is in England to recall somebody up to year after they leave service, where an allegation of misconduct is serious. It would need to be a serious allegation to meet that threshold. To recall someone beyond a year, the allegation would have to go to the ombudsman for sign-off, and, because of the laws around retrospectivity, the failing would have to have been pertinent at the time that it occurred. For example, changes to the law in the interim would not be allowed to be applied retrospectively as the standards to which the officer would have been held at that time. <BR /> <BR />There is no intention for the amendment to be used as another means of litigating legacy issues.”
“I appreciate the point that the Member makes. However, the Police Rehabilitation and Retraining Trust (PRRT) specifically supports former police officers either to find a new career and retrain or to be rehabilitated, if they have had an illness or injury, and continue to earn a living. There are special measures in place. I understand that the Member had some concerns about the limitations on some of the powers. Will he consider engaging with us before Further Consideration Stage? Some of the powers will be subject to regulations, which the Committee will have the opportunity to see. While the powers look incredibly wide-ranging, they will have some limitations on them. The powers will bring the PSNI into line with other police services across the UK; it does not go further or make life more difficult for them than it would be elsewhere.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I am sure that we all echo his sentiments. As we see, young officers who have joined the PSNI today find themselves in the same situation whereby they and their families are threatened by those who wish to cause them harm and disrupt our community. It is important that they know that they have our full support. It is also important that they have our full trust and respect. That is why these regulations are so important, so that, where there are individuals who are engaged in misconduct that would bring shame on the Police Service, we are able to swiftly remove those individuals from their posts to protect the public and the reputation of the Police Service.”
“<BR /> <BR />I believe that the package of measures provides us with an opportunity to ensure that the PSNI and other investigatory bodies with police powers are held to the highest standards and to ensure that we protect the public from any rogue officers who conduct themselves in a way that is incompatible with the responsibilities and the duties that they hold. It is important for public confidence that that can be done in a timely fashion. The combination of having barred and advisory lists, which will help with public protection, and having the ability to expedite gross misconduct proceedings will help to build confidence and trust, both of which are essential for people in our community. I commend the amendments to the House.”
“As we know, there has been much public criticism about officers being suspended on full pay, often for many years, while they await the outcome of an ombudsman's investigation. I am very supportive of the amendment that will allow the ombudsman to submit an early report where it is clear that the officer concerned has committed gross misconduct. The amendment will provide the PSNI with access to the information needed to commence and conclude disciplinary proceedings without undue delay, subject to the appropriate authority's assessment of any prejudice to criminal cases. Where gross misconduct has been found, there is a clear public interest to expedite disciplinary proceedings for officers.”
“The proposals will also amend section 59 of the Police (Northern Ireland) Act 1998 by seeking to remove the requirement for the ombudsman to await Public Prosecution Service (PPS) decisions to initiate criminal proceedings and, if initiated, the conclusion of those criminal proceedings before it may make a recommendation to the appropriate authority with regard to the discipline of a police officer. <BR /> <BR />Presently, in Northern Ireland, provisions in section 59 prevent disciplinary proceedings from being brought by the appropriate authority before it receives the ombudsman's memorandum. That can result in a lengthy period before disciplinary proceedings can be taken forward.”
“<BR /> <BR />It is important to note that, on receipt of a referral to a fast-track hearing, the appropriate authority will still be required to consider whether disciplinary proceedings could prejudice any future criminal case and that, depending on that assessment, such proceedings may therefore not go ahead in some cases.”
“The amendments will allow PSNI special case hearings, also known as fast-track hearings, to proceed prior to the conclusion of a criminal case. They will amend section 56 of the Police (Northern Ireland) Act 1998 to give the ombudsman powers to submit a written report before an investigation is complete. In cases in which an investigator believes that the appropriate authority would be likely to determine that the "special conditions" are met, they will be able to submit a written report on their investigation to date. That, in turn, can facilitate a fast-track hearing. The special conditions are that there is sufficient evidence that the officer's conduct constitutes gross misconduct and that it is in the public interest for an officer to cease to serve without delay.”
“I will seek to explore that further once all the UK lists are in place. <BR /> <BR />The amendments, which were developed for inclusion in the Bill at the request of the Committee for Justice, will close a legislative gap and further protect the public from the actions of individuals who are unsuitable to hold a law enforcement position and who might seek to abuse the power that would be entrusted to them in such a role. <BR /> <BR />I have also considered amendment Nos 76 and 77, tabled by Miss Nuala McAllister, which relate to new proposals to give the Police Ombudsman power to submit a report to the appropriate authority at any point during their investigation or before criminal proceedings have concluded.”
“Presently, Northern Ireland legislation does not support the introduction of that practice. The provisions will therefore guard against an individual who has demonstrated behaviours that make them unsuitable for a law enforcement role from gaining employment with another Northern Ireland law enforcement employer or another United Kingdom police force. <BR /> <BR />While there may not be the same statutory bar on employing individuals whose details are held on the barred and advisory lists for UK law enforcement bodies, they will be able to search and view the Northern Ireland lists and will therefore need to give due consideration before employing anyone who is on them. It is an ambition to put in place a reciprocal arrangement that will prevent any UK law enforcement body from employing an individual who is on any of the UK lists.”
“The secondary legislation — regulations — to be enacted once the primary power is in place will make provision for proceedings to be concluded in the former officer's absence. If it is found that a former officer would have been dismissed had they still been serving, they will be removed from the advisory list and added to the barred list. <BR /> <BR />The provisions will extend to law enforcement bodies in Northern Ireland, including the PSNI, the Belfast Harbour Police, the Belfast International Airport Constabulary, the Northern Ireland Policing Board and the Office of the Police Ombudsman for Northern Ireland. Those bodies will be unable to appoint any individual whose details are held on the barred list, and they must give careful consideration before appointing an individual whose details are held on the advisory list.”
“Individuals will remain on the list indefinitely unless they win an appeal against their dismissal or make a successful review application, whereby they will have to provide clear evidence as to why they are suitable to rejoin policing. <BR /> <BR />Similarly, the advisory list will hold the details of individuals who retire or resign while they are the subject of a disciplinary investigation or who leave before an allegation comes to light. We are all aware of the concerns that have been raised in that regard in recent months. A key factor in the amendments is the inclusion of provision to enable police officers who retire or resign while they are the subject of an allegation and who have been added to the advisory list in the interim period to be brought back for misconduct proceedings.”
“Amendment No 68, together with amendment Nos 69 and 127, will create police barred and advisory lists for Northern Ireland. The creation of such lists will align Northern Ireland with the rest of the United Kingdom to create a cohesive and effective safeguard against those who have proven themselves to be unsuitable for a career in policing from gaining further employment in a policing profession. <BR /> <BR />Barred and advisory lists for policing in England and Wales have been in operation since 2017, and Scotland is setting up similar lists. The barred list will hold details of all officers and staff members who have been dismissed from policing after investigations under the relevant disciplinary regulations or process.”
“The following amendments stood on the Marshalled List:”
“We understand that people are frightened and angry, but, this morning, it is important to recognise that everyone in the community is reeling from what they have seen and to ensure that the police have the opportunity to investigate thoroughly. <BR /> <BR />I beg move amendment No 68:”
“Thank you, Mr Speaker. With your indulgence, I will put on record my condemnation of the extraordinary incident in north Belfast last night. Most of us were shocked and horrified at the violence that we witnessed, which was recorded and broadcast online. I extend my best wishes to the victim and his family. I know that his injuries are serious, and I hope that he makes a full recovery. I also put on record the gratitude of all of us for the brave people who intervened to try to stop the attack, and to the first responders who rescued the individual and took him to the care of the hospital. I think that all of us will also wish to call for calm.”
“<BR /> <BR />If we are to pass law here that is not to be constantly contentious, I urge other Members to engage with me and the Department. We will do our best to find ways to address the issues that are of concern to you. This may be the only chance that the Department of Justice will get to progress a miscellaneous provisions-type Bill, so I want to be able to accommodate as many of Members' concerns that I can in it. My officials and I are happy to meet the Member on the basis that we can bring changes at Further Consideration Stage. On that basis, I am content to give my support. I thank all Members who engaged with good faith and in good grace this evening. In the main, these debates have been an exemplar of how we should do business.”
“To be clear, we are all agreed that, for example, in the case of non-molestation orders and other civil orders, pets and so on are already named. We are clear that the construction of our domestic abuse offences is, first, wide enough to capture it and, secondly, that it is also reflected in the accompanying explanatory and financial memorandum. We gave some examples of pets being used in domestic abuse situations. The unintended consequence of part of the amendment would be to put, if you like, animal abuse above other forms of domestic violence and abuse. I do not believe that that was the Member's intention, nor do I believe that that would be wise. However, I welcome the fact that the Member has been constructive.”
“<BR /> <BR />Let us bear in mind that, while this may not be such a serious matter here, people around the globe are losing their lives because of blasphemy laws. The only way that we will change that is through constructive dialogue and consistent leadership. Countries that have blasphemy laws and do not properly protect article 18 of the UNHR or article 9 of the ECHR have the worst human rights records by far. It is not only rights of religion that are compressed and destroyed but other rights and freedoms. In a democratic society, no one has the right to control your religious beliefs. <BR /> <BR />Finally, I turn to Ruby's law. Paul Frew has said that he is happy to work with us to avoid any unintended consequences.”
“Yet, we argue, day in, day out, and I know that I certainly do, and I have funded charitable organisations and travelled with organisations that seek to spread the gospel, and I expect a warm welcome, I expect to be respected, and I expect not to be attacked for doing so. I expect that freedom and courtesy to be extended to me. One of the key things in the Bible for those who profess their Christianity is that you should treat others as you would wish to be treated yourself. As a Christian abroad, I would wish to be treated with respect for my freedoms and have the ability to voice and display my faith as I choose. Therefore, fundamentally, I believe that I should do the same when people are here in my country. I want to ensure that we are respectful of those who come here with different faiths and none.”
“If you are going to apply that position consistently, it means that you should not have freedoms as a Christian in an Islamic country or as a Sikh in a Hindu country. We could go on and on.”