Naomi Long
East Belfast · Alliance Party · Northern Ireland
“Underneath the Facebook posts to say that he had passed away, people speculated with such comments as, "Probably high on drugs", "Probably drunk", and, "Typical boy racer". There was all of that speculation. It was hurtful to the family, and it was inaccurate.”
“There are circumstances that we need to consider and be careful of. I was told, for example, that, when the issue of good character references at trial was being looked at in New South Wales — Committee members may wish to look at this for themselves — one of the groups that opposed their removal was representative of domestic abuse victi…”
“It sets out the strategic direction adopted by the Department and key partners to tackle those appalling crimes and protect vulnerable victims of exploitation.”
“The provision seeks to provide protection, via legal advice and representation for complainants, against the use of non-relevant personal material and evidence of previous sexual history being used in the court process.”
“<BR /> <BR />On the wider issue of ensuring that a withdrawal of services never happens again, I think that most of us agree that, although everyone has the right to take industrial action, no one has the right to derail and hold to ransom the entire justice system in that way.”
“Those measures will go some way towards helping to support complainants and enable them to have input into the decision-making process about what records containing their personal and sensitive information are required to be shared with the defence.”
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“I am therefore keen to ensure that all those who have had convictions overturned or cautions deleted are notified as soon as possible and that those eligible to receive financial redress should be allowed to access that as swiftly as possible.”
“While the legislation, once enacted, will automatically quash the convictions of all those who meet the specified conditions, we will need to identify and notify individuals that their convictions have been quashed and ensure that their records are updated. My Department has been working at pace with our operational partners to plan for implementation and identify any cases within the scope of the legislation. That work is ongoing. Although the number of cases that have been identified in Northern Ireland is relatively small, the hurt and distress that the Horizon scandal inflicted on the individuals concerned is no less significant.”
“I will answer the question that said it is a matter for the Chief Constable to decide how this will be monitored. Of all the decisions that will need to be made, the closure of call-in front offices is probably one of the easier ones. My constituency has lost the call-in facility. I know that many Members feel the same way about it. However, they were prioritised for reduction on the basis that many are not frequently used and, therefore, do not represent a good use of limited resources. I am sure that the Chief Constable will have heard what the Member said today and will take it into account when he reviews the matter.”
“The decision to close PSNI enquiry offices is entirely an operational matter for the Chief Constable, who is accountable to the Northern Ireland Policing Board. As I am committed to respecting the operational independence of the chief and the role of the Northern Ireland Policing Board, it would not be appropriate for me to give an assessment of whether Musgrave Street police station will have sufficient capacity to respond to in-person enquiries in a timely manner. However, the Member may wish to direct his question directly to the Chief Constable. It is important to acknowledge that the resourcing challenges faced in policing are replicated across all parts of the justice system, and that, without additional significant resources for my Department, the current levels of service across the board will simply not be able to be maintained.”
“If we get significant extra resource, it will be a matter for the Executive to decide where that is reallocated on the basis of the bids that we put in, any new bids that emerge and, indeed, any money that is surrendered by Departments, which, I expect, will be rather small at this stage in the year. We should do that process through the normal route.”
“There are two separate issues. First, we need to give certainty to the organisations that need a budget in order to be able to spend money this year. Secondly, we need to give my Department a definitive answer on the resource that it will have. We have to proceed with this year's Budget. It is essential that we do so. <BR /> <BR />As the June monitoring round comes hot on the heels of the Budget-setting process, it will be a supplementary process, to be honest. It is likely to be done shortly after the main allocations if not alongside them. I do not see that holding back one to do the other would be helpful. It is much better to give people clarity so that they have the maximum time to adjust to the new spending environment in which they will find themselves.”
“I cannot be more specific, because, first, the budget allocations to the various arm's-length bodies (ALBs) and partner organisations have not been issued. Those will go out in the first half of this week. Secondly, I am working my way through a list of operational areas that are within the gift of the core Department and that I may wish to scale back or take forward more quickly in order to manage the budget. As I said in response to the original question, my priority is to do all that I can within budget without compromising our ability to preserve life, protect the public and keep people safe, which are our first and primary duties.”
“Given the challenging budgetary position, there will inevitably be a detrimental impact on the ability to continue to fund all the services that we currently deliver. That will inevitably result in the justice system slowing down, and, whilst that is regrettable and damaging to our citizens, it is unavoidable, given the scale of the financial pressures. However, more concerning is the fact that it will, without doubt, increase the risk of a catastrophic failure of the system, compromising our ability to preserve life, protect the public and keep people safe. It is around that that I am making my priorities.”
“There is a major question about not only how they can be managed but whether they can be managed. However, it is my job as Minister to seek a way to do that. There is no recognition in the 2024-25 Budget settlement of the increased demand facing the Department. We have already heard mention in the Chamber of the 35% increase in prison numbers in the last three years, the fact that police officer numbers are at an all-time low of 6,394 against the New Decade, New Approach recommended level of 7,500, the 30% increase in legal aid costs and the significant backlogs in our courts. <BR /> <BR />Difficult decisions on prioritisation in service provision will be required, as the Department will have to manage those pressures in order to live within its Budget allocation.”
“I am very conscious of the limited funding that the Executive had available to allocate. However, whilst the additional £95 million of funding is welcome, it still leaves my Department facing pressures of £351 million in 2024-25. To put some perspective on the scale of the pressures involved, I will say that £351 million equates to the combined annual spend of prisons, courts and tribunals, legal aid, forensic science and the core Department. The severity of the financial position for Justice is exacerbated by the combined effects of historical underfunding compared with need for Northern Ireland and the demand-led structure of the majority of services delivered by justice organisations.”
“The Minister of Finance made a written ministerial statement to the Assembly on 25 April 2024, after which the Budget allocations were issued to Departments. My Department's allocation was £95 million or around 9·9% of the total funding available. That compared with our pressures of £446 million, which represented 14% of the total pressures reported by Departments. Had we been funded on a pro rata basis, our expected allocation would have been £134 million or £39 million higher than it was. The additional allocation of £95 million is only £9 million more than the funding of £86 million that was required in 2023-24 to meet the Department's pressures. <BR /> <BR />Against that marginal increase in funding, my Department is facing increasing demand for services and inflationary cost rises, as well as the impact of pay awards.”
“Of that £446 million, £318 million related to PSNI requests. Only £8 million related to pressures that, you could perhaps argue, were not inescapable, in that it was for the recruitment of new officers. However, given the low number of officers that we have at the moment, we decided to prioritise that request on behalf of the PSNI, given that Members have stated that they are intent on seeing the service grow, as have I.”
“In total, the Department applied for £446 million, which is just over 40% of its baseline budget, for inescapable pressures. Those are issues for which we have no funding and for which we cannot avoid paying.”
“The deployment of the operational resource that the Chief Constable has at his disposal is a matter entirely for him, and he would take that up with the board. I cannot advise the Member on where those stresses are likely to be most acutely felt. Furthermore, I am sure that she would not want us to name locations where people might feel somewhat less supervised in their activities, were we to disclose them. I encourage her to meet the Chief Constable if she has specific concerns about policing in her area.”
“First, the New Decade, New Approach commitment was to 7,500 officers. The figure of 7,200 officers was provided by the previous Deputy Chief Constable, Stephen Martin, as advice on the numbers required. The figure of 6,900 to 7,200 came from the Leapwise report, which was commissioned by the Chief Constable and shared with the Policing Board and me. The conclusion of that report stated that policing numbers should be in the region of 6,900 to 7,200 officers.”
“Resourcing in the PSNI is a matter for the Chief Constable, who is accountable to the Northern Ireland Policing Board. I respect the Chief Constable’s operational independence and the role of the Policing Board in holding him to account. Therefore, it would not be appropriate for me to make an assessment of that matter. However, I have repeatedly lobbied for the justice sector in Northern Ireland to be funded appropriately and will continue to work closely with the Chief Constable and the board to ensure that we have a Police Service that is properly resourced in all aspects for the challenges that it faces.”
“<BR /> <BR />Health and well-being services are available to all NICS staff. Those include the welfare support service, a self-referral facility, confidential counselling through Inspire and a number of other services. However, through our bespoke staff survey, we identified some additional measures. Results from that survey will be available to us by mid-May. It is hoped that, at that stage, we will be able to continue to evolve our cooperation with and support for staff.”
“As you know, the Prison Service collaborates with the Police Rehabilitation and Retraining Trust, following some of the work that I did in 2020-21. That continues to evolve. I already mentioned that 400 staff were trained and supported through PRRT, including through the preventative resilience training that is being delivered to teams such as those working in care and supervision units (CSUs). That training is delivered right up to governors, as well as to new recruits. Last year, around 100 operational staff attended a new health and wellness day at PRRT, which was aimed at providing advice on a range of wellness issues such as resilience, diet, exercise and sleep patterns. Subject to the availability of funding, that programme will be rolled out further across the service.”
“Of the many pressures that we face, the pressure in prisons is considerable. The prison numbers are not quite as high as the Member suggested, but they are certainly rapidly approaching the 2,000 mark. They are up 37% on what they were in 2020, for example. That is a considerable increase. It makes prison arrangements more challenging when it comes to what we can do to deliver rehabilitation, but we continue to prioritise the safety of those in the prison system, including officers. <BR /> <BR />We also continue, as we have continued throughout that period, to recruit officers at the pace that we can sustain. We will continue to do that for as long as possible, but it is fair to say that no additional resources are coming our way to fund that.”
“Where we have raised specific issues with it about concerns that have been raised with us by the Prison Service, it has responded rapidly to those.”
“The Member will be aware that that position predated the current arrangements whereby this is an issue for NICS. At this point, it is not possible for us to bring the team back into the Department without considerable cost to the Department. One of the reasons for it being outsourced to NICS HR related to the terms and conditions of employment in the Prison Service. While someone is employed as a prison officer, they are employed under the terms and conditions of the Northern Ireland Civil Service. The second reason was that considerable economies of scale were to be gained from having that done by NICS HR. <BR /> <BR />Work has been done on the transformation of the occupational health service (OHS), including a disciplinary occupational health and well-being advice service for the whole of NICS, including prison officers.”
“By way of example, in 2023, over 400 staff were provided with bespoke training and support from the Police Rehabilitation and Retraining Trust (PRRT). That partnership continues to evolve and progress.”
“It is vital that prison staff are supported to undertake their role of supporting and challenging people in prison to change and return to society equipped to make a positive contribution to their community. That is one of the reasons why, in June 2020, I commissioned a focused review of measures available to support prison officers. Two evidence-based reports, one on serving staff and one on retired staff, were published in January 2021, alongside implementation plans. The report made 12 recommendations for operational staff, which included the completion of a grading review, the further development of bespoke support services and the establishment of well-being hubs in our prisons. There has been substantial progress on those recommendations.”
“As I made clear in my initial answer, I cannot give commentary on decisions made by the chief commissioner. The commission is entirely operationally independent of the Department, and it would be inappropriate for me to second-guess its choices.”
“Whilst the Northern Ireland Courts and Tribunals Service has sponsorship responsibility for the Planning Appeals Commission, the commission is an independent appellant body. Thus, similar to the judiciary, it is completely independent of the Department in its handling of cases and decision-making. It is therefore not appropriate for me, as Minister of Justice, to comment on matters that encroach on the independence of the chief commissioner or provide commentary on or assessment of the commission's decisions.”
“I have had extensive conversations with the police and the Northern Ireland Policing Board about the data breach. I obviously had to have those conversations in the context of the budget. I do not have a figure on the five-year requirement, but I know that, this year, the police have bid in year for around £116 million to cover the cost of the data breach in 2024-25. It is one of the considerable pressures facing the Department of Justice and the PSNI.”
“The fourth was that the Department of Justice, DOF and the Northern Ireland Policing Board should act in the short term to mitigate issues arising from the current schemes, and the Audit Office gave a set of things that it thought that we would be able to do, including issuing clearer guidance to medical practitioners about their role as final decision makers and ensuring that the payments are in place and include offset provisions. <BR /> <BR />The Department has made amendment regulations to ensure that payments of all police pension schemes are considered when calculating an injury on duty award, which is in line with the Northern Ireland Audit Office recommendation. We are consulting on potential changes to the IOD scheme more generally to reflect the recommendations of the Northern Ireland Audit Office report.”
“I thank the Member for her question. There were four recommendations. One was that a fundamental review of the PSNI scheme should be undertaken, similar to the ongoing review of the Northern Ireland Civil Service (NICS) IOD scheme by the Department of Finance. The second was that a review of the PSNI scheme should simplify and streamline the end-to-end process and consider the respective roles of the PSNI, the Policing Board and the Department. The third was that having a new case management system for the PSNI scheme would provide better reporting and analysis of management information.”
“The issue of the powers and duties of the selected medical practitioners forms part of the discussions that we are having with the IOD reference group. It would be fair to say, however, that we intend to put the guidance that is provided to the SMPs on a statutory footing. We hope to have that guidance before the Committee this month and to have the regulations laid in the Assembly by the summer.”
“I do not agree with the Member, because it is a matter that was transferred from the Police Authority, as was, to the Policing Board at the time of the Patten review. The reason for that was that, as the employer, the people on the Policing Board were best able to carry out the function. The Member will be aware that there has been ongoing conversation about that, but I would not want to prejudge the outcome of the various elements of that discussion.”
“<BR /> <BR />My Department is considering the Northern Ireland Audit Office (NIAO) recommendations in its report on injury on duty schemes. The application process does not, however, form part of the review.”
“The Department is responsible for maintaining the statutory framework for the Police Service of Northern Ireland and Police Service of Northern Ireland Reserve (Injury Benefit) Regulations 2006 for injury on duty awards and the police pension scheme in Northern Ireland for ill health retirement. <BR /> <BR />The Department plays no role in the application process for injury on duty and/or ill health retirement. That is an operational matter for the Northern Ireland Policing Board (NIPB). I am committed to respecting the role and independence of the board in that regard. My Department is responsible for appointing independent medical referees (IMRs) to decide appeals against the decision of the selected medical practitioners (SMPs).”
“Ultimately, this is about delivering the right justice at the right time, and it is important that we are able to do that. <BR /> <BR />Live links have also been critical in helping to address the challenges presented to the justice system until primary legislation can be made by the Assembly. The inability for us to do it by regulation is unfortunate, but the modernisation of justice Bill — hopefully, that primary legislation will begin its passage through the House prior to the summer recess — is the right vehicle. It will, hopefully, reassure Members that progress is being made in this regard and that I view these specific measures on live links and courts as purely a temporary holding position.”
“Members who visited the remote evidence centre (REC) and saw what the remote evidence setting was, particularly for children but also for vulnerable adults and witnesses giving evidence in complex and sensitive cases, reflected, I think, on how impressive a facility it was. It has made a huge difference, not only in places where we thought that it would. For example, in a number of family law contest cases, the knowledge that the witnesses and victims would turn up to give evidence led to people pleading out on the day, which avoided people having to go through a traumatic trial process. Often, people will game the system in the hope that a victim or witness will drop out at the last minute due to the stress of appearing in court. Live links have eliminated that, and, therefore, we are getting better results, which is important.”
“There are approximately 68% more defendants in the Crown Court and 52% more defendants in the Magistrates' Court in comparison with 1 March 2020. Live links are part of the picture of what we have been doing to deliver more speedy justice. That is good not only for defendants, victims and witnesses but for the resources in the justice system, and we are following other tracks, including looking at avoidable delay, to ensure that we save as much resource as possible in the system. <BR /> <BR />The pathway that has been set out today to maintain access to the use of live links is, ultimately, victim-focused.”
“The process might have to become slightly more contracted towards the end of the mandate, but we are trying to do that in order to give the Committee as much capacity and space to scrutinise as possible. <BR /> <BR />Members also raised the need to use the measure to address the backlogs in the system. Those will take time and resources to clear, and we have been open and honest about that. However, on the basis of the management information, the number of defendants in the court system at March 2024 in comparison with the number of cases across the criminal courts is 23% higher than it was in March 2020. This is about us not just improving on the situation and recovering from COVID but improving on the situation that predated COVID by speeding up justice generally.”
“It is an issue of drafting capacity in the Assembly. Mr Speaker has indicated similar restrictions on, for example, private Members' Bills. There is a limit to our drafting capacity. Clearly, in my case, having one Bill a year is also to allow the Committee not to have to deal with overlaps. Members who sat on the Justice Committee last time, when we did five Bills in, I think, two years, will know that there was considerable overlap. As we were reaching one stage of one Bill, a new Bill was being introduced for consultation. We had to do that in order to drive the Bills forward, given the urgency of the content, but it is not the ideal position. I would like the Committee to have the time to focus on each Bill in turn, sequentially.”
“That was not without challenge, because it was introduced at pace in response to an emergency, but we have been able to learn from that experience. I am not proposing that the legislation that will come to the Assembly will simply replicate what was in the Coronavirus Act; we want to reflect on the feedback that we have received from court users and participants through our consultation and the targeted engagement exercise that we have undertaken.”
“We therefore have a mixed content Bill at the start of the mandate, of which this measure will be part, and, hopefully, two further Bills will follow. The first of those will deal with sentencing issues and will be slightly more focused, and the last will deal with victims-based issues. <BR /> <BR />I want to ensure that any legislation that we make in this space is robust and future-proofed and takes account of learning from the past few years. The Members who stated that live links should have been done years ago are beating the same drum as the Department has been beating for a considerable time. However, it took an emergency like COVID to convince all court users and participants in the justice system that live links would be a viable alternative.”
“However, those disparate offences and other relevant items still need to be taken forward, and the intention is to wrap that into the new legislation that is coming forward alongside live links and other measures. <BR /> <BR />Irrespective of personal preference, there is insufficient time and resource to accommodate a series of smaller Bills in this mandate. In fact, we have been told specifically, in advice from the Executive, that we can have, I think, one Bill a year on the basis of "One in, one out". If we were to do a small, focused Bill, we would lose the larger, mixed content Bill. We cannot afford to do that because of the pressing need for the other legislation to pass. We have a shortened mandate for legislation and a backlog of legislative changes from the last mandate.”
“First, there was a valid question about the Communities and Finance Departments being able to bring forward statutory rules — subordinate legislation — to the House to achieve their objectives. We are unable to do that, as there is no primary legislation in place that would allow us to bring forward regulations in this space. Therefore, we have to have new primary legislation, which, as Members will be aware, is a longer process. That also needs to be accommodated against and alongside other legislative requirements. Members will remember that, towards the end of the last mandate, we had a mixed content Bill that dealt with disparate matters that were stripped back to create the Justice (Sexual Offences and Trafficking Victims) Bill.”
“I thank all the Members who have contributed to the debate on the order. First, it is pleasing that there is broad consensus in the Assembly for the need to maintain the provisions in the temporary fashion that we have but also that there is broad consensus for us to put this on a firm legislative footing going forward, which is my preference. That consensus evidences the benefit of working towards a common purpose, reducing budgetary pressures, assisting the efficient use of available resources and meeting the needs of the Northern Ireland public, in particular those who come into contact with or need to avail themselves of the justice system. <BR /> <BR />I thank Members for their contributions today, and I want to address some of the issues that have been raised.”
“We hope to complete the process of that being delivered to the Committee for its consideration, and then onwards to the Assembly, before recess. We are not dragging our heels but, sadly, we will need to rely on these emergency provisions for a little longer. I commend the approval of the order to the Assembly, and I thank Members for their time.”
“I welcome the evidence that the Commissioner-designate for Victims of Crime provided when she appeared before the Justice Committee on the benefits that live links can deliver, particularly for victims of crime, which she supported with compelling real-life examples. <BR /> <BR />I ask Members to take account of the fact that, on each occasion that we have reached out to consult or engage with stakeholders with regard to live links, they have been overwhelmingly supportive of the continued use of the provisions. There is firm evidence that the availability of an enhanced digital court environment supports the needs of court users. I also draw Members' attention to the fact that we are working at pace to bring forward fresh legislation that will place us on that footing going forward.”
“<BR /> <BR />Whilst the current legislative underpinning for live links is not ideal, the benefits are clear. They can reduce the impact on those involved in court proceedings when going through what is already a stressful event. They allow children to give evidence in a more child-friendly environment. They avoid children and their parents having to be in separate locations while waiting to give evidence. They reduce the risk of unplanned encounters between victims and witnesses and the defendant, and can help to meet the Victim Charter obligation to provide separate waiting areas. Ultimately, they save time and resources, including — particularly — expert witnesses, reducing the carbon footprint and allowing us to maximise the investment already made in technology.”
“That debate also gave Members the opportunity to voice their concerns about having to rely on emergency legislation in order to maintain access to these provisions. I acknowledge those concerns, and, indeed, I share them. It remains my clear preference to have our own primary provision in place, and we are working closely with the Committee for Justice with a view to creating a pathway that will allow us to achieve that as soon as possible. The contributions made during the previous debate indicated to me a level of acceptance among Members that the reality is that there is no practicable alternative to continuing to rely on these provisions as a temporary measure. That reflects the fact that we have a shortened mandate, the backlog of legislation from the previous mandate, and our constrained resources.”
“This extension, covering the period from March to September 2024, is to allow us to maintain access to live links provision, which has proved to be an essential element of the toolkit for addressing the backlog of cases accrued during and since the pandemic, as well as allowing us to maintain efficacy in the system while we take forward work in parallel to put new primary legislation in place. <BR /> <BR />Nine weeks ago yesterday, on 11 March, I moved a similar motion for approval on a similar statutory rule, SR 2023/138. It was heartening on that occasion to hear recognition from those Members who spoke of the clear need for these provisions to be maintained, especially at a time of scarce resources.”
“Thank you, Mr Speaker. I seek the Assembly's approval for the Coronavirus Act 2020 (Extension of Provisions Relating to Live Links for Courts and Tribunals) Order (Northern Ireland) 2024. That is SR 2024/72. The motion is that this order be approved. <BR /> <BR />Article 2 of the order extends the provisions allowing courts and statutory tribunals in Northern Ireland to receive evidence, wholly or in part, using audio or video conferencing, systems but primarily video. These systems are commonly referred to as live links. They facilitate the wider provision of remote evidence as well as disposing of mentions or hearings, which can include matters such as first appearances and bail applications.”
“It was previously ruled that the Justice Minister does not routinely answer questions on matters that have other oversight structures in the political sphere. Mr Speaker has made it clear. Clearly, some Members do not want to accept that ruling.”
“It is not for you to judge. You, with all due respect, are not in the Chair.”