Simon Hamilton
Strangford · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I have emphasised to the Member and the House before, that, whilst I accept that those are not good enough — that is why we have been developing the plan — there are alternative technologies in place that can present opportunities for those who just cannot get acceptable speeds.”
“I thank the Member for his intervention. There are some initiatives that I believe will help and act as a driver to improve broadband access. One such intervention is the broadband universal service obligation (USO), which is being taken forward by Her Majesty's Government.”
“I thank the Member for his question. However, he is conflating two issues. I wrote to his party leader, and indeed to all Assembly party leaders, before making the announcement that I did last week about wanting to publish the details of the businesses in receipt of the non-domestic RHI scheme. It was my intention to do that tomorrow.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Chancellor, in his autumn statement, made some more funding available for telecommunications, and my Department is studying that and seeking to avail itself of that to the fullest possible extent.”
“In addition, my Department is managing a contract for the delivery of the superfast rollout programme, which, by 31 December, will provide access to superfast broadband with speeds of at least 24 megabits per second to a further 38,000 premises, both business and residential, across Northern Ireland, including in the Newry and Armagh cons…”
“I signalled the intention to do this a few weeks ago. The Member and the House will know that inspections of all installations would have taken place over the 20-year lifetime of the RHI scheme.”
The complete record
Every one of 3,625 lines we hold for Simon Hamilton, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 41 of 73.
“All I can say is that I signed off on an Executive paper on this to go to colleagues on 12 May, which happened to be the second day I was in office, so I was certainly quick to get things progressing.”
“<BR /> <BR />Our legislation needs to be changed to address some long-standing court judgements that have not looked favourably on the system that we have in Northern Ireland. It is right that we proceed along these lines; in doing so we are being innovative, which is something to welcome. <BR /> <BR />He mentioned the "tardiness" in bringing such a huge piece of legislation forward. He pointed out that there are 295 clauses and that it is the biggest Bill ever to come before the House. To do so late on in a term — a point that I will revisit later in response to other Members' comments — is perhaps not best practice and I think that is a fair point.”
“He used that great line from 'Yes, Prime Minister' about it being "very courageous". I always preferred the episodes where Hacker got the better of Sir Humphrey, even though they were few and far between. <BR /> <BR />I understand the points that Mr Ross was making on behalf of the Committee. It is bold and, perhaps, courageous to do what we are doing. To be the first anywhere in the world to do something sometimes poses the question: "If nobody else has done it, why are we doing it?", but somebody has to try things first. That in itself is not a justification, but what is a justification for doing what we are doing is that the status quo — to do nothing and have no mental capacity legislation for adults in Northern Ireland — was not an option. We had to do something.”
“He is right that if we had still been under direct rule, we would have had some of the changes that would have gone through in the Mental Capacity Act, on which there is agreement that it does not go far enough and certainly does not do what we are attempting to do in the Bill. <BR /> <BR />Mr Ross is right to talk about how good it is to be innovative, and I want to see, across our health and social care system, us being increasingly embracing of innovation. If we are to meet the demands on our health and social care sector, we need to be continually innovative and build on the successes that we have had in the past, but being innovative, as Mr Ross pointed out, brings with it challenges. It is, as he described, "a complex test", because it is a fundamental change.”
“I appreciate that, in my response, I may not be able to pick up on some of the issues that were raised, but I will endeavour to write to any Member who raised points that I do not get an opportunity to respond to. <BR /> <BR />Mr Ross spoke in his capacity as Chair of the Ad Hoc Committee, and he and many other Members welcomed the fact that this was an innovative, ground-breaking piece of legislation. Mr McCallister was right in his opening comments to remark that this would not have been done in any other way and that the fact that no other legislature has attempted this means that it is bold.”
“I hope that the Bill passes its Second Stage, and I look forward to the Ad Hoc Committee getting its teeth into it and having those debates. <BR /> <BR />I welcome Members' contributions today and thank them for them. I also thank those on the Ad Hoc Committee in advance for the taxing and time-consuming work that they will do on the Bill when it enters its Committee Stage. I will attempt to turn to as many of the issues that were raised in the debate as possible. To be fair, many of them were raised by a selection of Members, so forgive me if I ascribe points to a particular Member because many were raised by virtually everybody who spoke.”
“It is pretty clear from today's debate — the array of Members who spoke and the very considered contributions made from all corners of the House — that the Bill is, as I outlined in my earlier contribution, far-reaching and has the potential to touch upon the lives of a great number of people in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />If I have sensed the tone of Members' contributions accurately, they would agree that it is critical that we get this legislation right. A lot of points were raised expressing concerns about clarity, not least by Mr McCallister, who made the last contribution in the debate. There is a need for further clarity and the hollowing out of some issues; that is why we have the process that we have in this House.”
“<BR /> <BR />I conclude by commending the Assembly for the early establishment of the Ad Hoc Joint Health and Justice Committee, which has already met to hear directly from officials about the Bill's detail. The Committee has my and Minister Ford's full support and cooperation, and that of our Departments, as it takes on the important and difficult job of scrutinising the Bill. I look forward to hearing what the Committee and Members have to say.”
“Work has already begun on that, and on the training and awareness-raising programme needed to make the changes happen on the ground. <BR /> <BR />I do not underestimate the scale of the challenge that the Bill presents. In particular, I am acutely aware of the exceptionally difficult financial situation that we face. However, those challenges should not deter or deflect us from the crucial task of reforming our health and social care system. Indeed, the need to reform and modernise is more vital now than ever before. We should also not lose sight of the fact that, with this Bill, we are leading the way on a global stage, with what is widely recognised as being one of the most forward-thinking pieces of social legislation to be brought before any legislature.”
“<BR /> <BR />Part 13 creates new offences, such as the offence of ill-treatment or neglect of persons who lack capacity. Parts 14 and 15 contain miscellaneous and supplementary provision. For example, Part 14 gives effect in Northern Ireland to the Convention on the International Protection of Adults. It also makes clear that there are some decisions that are just too personal to fall within the scope of the Bill, such as consenting to marriage. <BR /> <BR />It will, I hope, be abundantly clear to Members at this point that the Bill, all 295 clauses and 11 schedules, is one of the largest ever to come before the Assembly. It may also be the most far-reaching in scope and potential impact, but the Bill itself is only one part of the jigsaw. The accompanying code of practice will be a key document.”
“Like the new court powers, the new transfer powers take account of a person's capacity to make decisions about their medical treatment, where it is appropriate to do so. Any person subject to detention under the powers in Part 10 has the right to seek a review of that detention by the review tribunal that I referred to earlier. <BR /> <BR />Finally, Mr Speaker, I want to cover briefly the remaining parts, Parts 11 to 15. Part 11 carries forward the current facility to transfer patients who are detained in hospital between Northern Ireland and the rest of the United Kingdom. Part 12 makes amendments to the Mental Health Order for persons aged 16 and under. Those amendments add to the safeguards that already exist for children in that order and in other legislation, such as the Children Order.”
“That risk, however, must be linked to the person having an impairment or disturbance in the functioning of the mind or brain. <BR /> <BR />Part 10 also creates a new court disposal on conviction, which is known as a hospital direction. A hospital direction can be made by the court if it is considered that a custodial sentence is appropriate but the person requires medical treatment. In those circumstances, the court can direct that the person be taken to hospital and be detained there. If the person recovers sufficiently to no longer require hospitalisation, he or she must be returned to custody to serve the rest of the sentence also imposed by the court. <BR /> <BR />Part 10 also makes provision for the conveyance to hospital of individuals who are detained in prison, the young offenders' centre and the juvenile justice centre.”
“<BR /> <BR />Part 10 replaces the current court powers in the Mental Health Order around remand and sentencing, including in "unfit to plead" cases. Unlike the current powers, the new powers take into account, where appropriate, a person's capacity to make decisions about their medical treatment. That reflects the recommendations made in the Bamford review. <BR /> <BR />The current hospital orders in the Mental Health Order will be replaced by new public protection orders, which can be made with or without restrictions. The purpose of the public protection order is to provide flexibility to the court in cases where a person has been convicted of a crime but is not considered culpable enough to be sent to prison, but if not detained in an appropriate place, would pose a risk of serious physical harm to other people.”
“<BR /> <BR />The police will also have powers, under Part 9, to transfer people between places of safety. Certain conditions will apply before those powers can be exercised. The police constable must reasonably believe that the person lacks capacity to make the decision around their removal or, as the case may be, their transfer or detention. They must also reasonably believe that the removal, transfer or detention is in the person's best interests. Those conditions are new. The current powers also allow a person to be detained in a place of safety for up to 48 hours. The new powers reduce that to 24 hours. Finally, provision is also made to ensure that further protections, based on those in the Police and Criminal Evidence (Northern Ireland) Order 1989, are afforded to any person detained in a place of safety under the powers in Part 9.”
“<BR /> <BR />That leads me to Part 7, which also involves the justice system. Part 7 requires the Department of Justice to appoint a public guardian. That officer will have a number of functions, including establishing and maintaining a register of attorneys and deputies and supervising the activities of deputies. <BR /> <BR />Parts 9 and 10 also deal with matters falling to the Department of Justice. Part 9 creates powers for police constables to remove a person from a public place and take him or her to a place of safety. Those powers will replace the current powers in the Mental Health Order and will apply if the person appears to be in need of immediate care or control. Once in a place of safety, the police can detain the person there.”
“<BR /> <BR />However, it is not just people in the health and social care sector who will need to be aware of the Bill. There are also significant safeguards contained in Parts 5 and 6 to do with making decisions about money that are relevant to banks, building societies, post offices and the legal profession. The new lasting powers of attorney system provided for in Part 5 will allow anyone over 18, if they have capacity, to appoint someone they trust to make decisions about their finances. That new system will replace the existing enduring powers of attorney system and will be extended to decisions about health and welfare matters. Under Part 6, the High Court will also have powers to take one-off decisions or, where there is a need, to appoint a deputy to make ongoing decisions.”
“Other jurisdictions have retained their separate mental health legislation when legislating for adults who are unable to make decisions for themselves. This Bill takes a very different approach for two key reasons: first, it avoids the confusion that having two sets of rules inevitably brings; secondly, and vitally, it will help to reduce the stigma felt by those who have, for many years now, been treated differently because they suffer from mental disorder. This fused approach is what the Bamford review strongly advocated and what stakeholders have repeatedly told us is the right way forward. It is that which makes the Bill unique and innovative. Other jurisdictions will watch the Assembly with interest as the Bill progresses through its legislative stages.”
“Safeguards such as nominated persons, for example, do not exist under the current legal framework, nor do the safeguards in Part 8 that deal specifically with research involving a person who lacks capacity to consent to it. They therefore represent a major change in the law — a significant change for the better that many of our people will stand to benefit from if the Bill is made law. <BR /> <BR />This brings me to perhaps the most ambitious change that the Bill will bring about. The new legal framework in the Bill will apply to all adults. Importantly, this includes those whose choices about their care and treatment can currently be overridden by professionals acting under the powers in the Mental Health Order.”
“It already exists in common law, but it has been found wanting by the courts when relied on in the past to do some of the more serious things in a person's life: for example, things involving placing significant restrictions on a person's movements to the extent that a person is being deprived of their liberty. Part 2, therefore, requires additional safeguards to be put in place in relation to serious interventions in someone's life. They include requiring a formal assessment of capacity to be carried out or a second opinion to be obtained; consulting with someone’s nominated person or an independent advocate; and getting very serious interventions authorised by the relevant health and social care trust. <BR /> <BR />Finally, Part 2 also provides a right to seek a review by a tribunal of any authorisation.”
“I do not intend to go through them all today, but I want to highlight to Members that it specifically requires "special regard" to be given to what the person's "wishes and feelings" might be. This was one of the key changes made to the draft Bill following the consultation. <BR /> <BR />Part 2 is the core of the Bill. It gives doctors, nurses, social workers, carers and others legal cover for things that they do every day in relation to people's care, treatment or personal welfare. These are things that would require people's consent if they had capacity, such as dressing them, taking them for a dental appointment or giving them an anaesthetic or injection of some kind?. This legal cover is not new.”
“It is expressly stated in clause 1 that whether a person has capacity to make a decision can be determined only by reference to clause 4 and his or her inability to make that decision because of an impairment or disturbance in the functioning of the mind or brain. This could be caused by any number of things, temporary or permanent, but the key point is that it does not matter what causes the impairment or disturbance. It is the inability to make a decision because of it that matters. <BR /> <BR />Part 1 also contains the principle that anything done for a person who lacks capacity to make a particular decision must be done in his or her best interests. Clause 7 sets out the list of factors that must all be balanced in order to comply with this principle.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Bill recognises that decisions based on informed consent are not always possible, so there is a need to provide for situations when judgements need to be made about what would be best for someone. However, crucially, this can occur only when it is properly established that a person lacks capacity to make a particular decision by themselves. In other words, the onus is on the person intervening to prove a lack of capacity, not the person themselves. <BR /> <BR />Under the Bill, assumptions cannot be made about someone's capacity on the basis of any condition "or any other characteristic" that they might have.”
“Respect for the choices and decisions that we make about our own life is something that many of us take for granted. However, for some, it is far from the reality of their day-to-day life. The Bill seeks to change that. The principles in Part 1 on the key concepts of capacity and best interests are the starting point. Significantly, these principles take account of developments since the Bamford review, such as the ratification of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities. They include a requirement up front for people to be given every practicable help and support to make decisions for themselves. This is because by far the best outcome when it comes to making decisions about our own healthcare, treatment or even our money is for each one of us to make those decisions for ourselves.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Mental Capacity Bill seeks to create a single piece of law that puts people's rights first when decisions, big and small, need to be made about their lives.”
“<BR /> <BR />As the scrutiny process begins, the Assembly can have confidence that the Bill has had the benefit of extensive stakeholder engagement and input, initially by those involved in the Bamford review, and, in more recent years, by the various stakeholder groups that met on many occasions to consider papers and proposals from both Departments. I thank everyone on those groups for their contribution to the development of the Bill and those who took the time to respond to the various consultation exercises and attend the many events held throughout Northern Ireland last year after the draft Bill was published for consultation. Many of the innovations in the Bill began with our extensive, transparent and responsive approach to consultation. The Bill, as introduced, is all the better because of that engagement.”
“As many Members will know, the Bill has been a long time in development. The reasons for that are clear and will, I think, emerge from our debate today. <BR /> <BR />The Bill provides a framework that will govern some of the most serious decisions that professionals in the health and social care sector and others make on a daily basis; decisions such as whether it would be best for someone to have a major operation that they are unable to consent to, or whether to place restrictions around a person's care or treatment to the extent that the person is, in fact, being deprived of his or her liberty.”
“In recent weeks, I have been setting out my vision for the future of health and social care in Northern Ireland. That vision involves, and, indeed, demands, reform, transformation and innovation across the sector. The Mental Capacity Bill delivers on all three of those. Developed jointly by my Department and the Department of Justice, the Bill is a first example of how, when we work together, we can overcome challenges and do things that will bring about real change for the better. I pay particular tribute to Minister Ford and his Department for all the hard work and dedication they have contributed in bringing the Bill before the Assembly today. <BR /> <BR />As far as I am aware, the Bill adopts an approach that has not been attempted anywhere else in the world. It has been a hugely complex and challenging process.”
“I beg to introduce the Health and Social Care (Control of Data Processing) Bill [NIA Bill 52/11-16], which is a Bill to make provision about control of data processing in relation to health and social care.”
“I am happy to come back to the Member with greater detail on the specifics of what is being done on self-harm for people across Northern Ireland.”
“My response to Mrs Hale's question outlined a considerable number of ways, particularly on suicide and, indeed, self-harm, in which a lot of work is going on, not just by the Public Health Agency, which does a lot of work to raise awareness and to try to prevent self-harm, but in response to self-harm when it does happen. There is, I feel, an impressive list of services provided in hospitals to people who present and who are at risk of self-harm, including counselling, training, response and intervention.”
“I appreciate the uncertainty that the issues around the infrastructure funding has created for many of these organisations. Whilst we would always like to see speedier decisions in all these things, I have been carefully considering it, because I value the work that the sector does. As I said, it is more that we have limited resources and are ensuring that we are getting good value for money and outcomes for the money that we invest that has delayed a final decision.”
“When there are many organisations, like the aforementioned ADD-NI and others, that need money, there are questions about our giving money to organisations to pay for the salaries of staff, as opposed to getting outcomes and better results for our citizens.”
“Mr Ó Muilleoir said that he and Mr Girvan were as one, and it seems that they are also in league in asking the same question. At this time, when resources are precious, limited, tight and very scarce, and when my Department's budget is under pressure, like every other Department in the Executive, I think it is very important that we look at the spending that we are doing and ensure that not only is it getting value for money but it is producing outcomes. <BR /> <BR />The core, infrastructure funding is something that I am keen to look at. As I said, it has been signalled to the organisations that have received it that previous Ministers wanted to move away from the current system. It has been a matter of transition and of how that might be implemented.”
“That is a different issue, and I am happy to take it away and examine it. While it is first and foremost a matter for the trust, I am happy to examine it and to report back to the Member.”
“<BR /> <BR />That is not to say that the work of any of those 67 organisations is not worthwhile, but I hope that the Member and, indeed, others can appreciate the circumstances that we find ourselves in and why I will continue to look at them and to carry on the work of my predecessors.”
“The issue has been around for some time. Previous Ministers in my post have signalled to the sector that reform will happen to the core funding but that they were considering how that might be implemented. I am now doing that. However, from examining the core funding, I also found that it is not going to organisations to pay for services. It is, as I saw in one case last week, contributing towards salaries for the organisations' chief executives and finance directors. Particularly at a time when we have scarce resources, I think that we should be focused on giving that scarce and limited funding to organisations to provide services that have defined outcomes. It is in that context that I will look at the issue.”
“Those 67 organisations receive many millions of pounds in grants each and every year. It is 67 organisations and not 68, and there is no potential to grow that to 68 or 69. It is exclusively for 67 organisations, and that, in itself, raises some issues for me around procurement, state aid, equity and fairness.”
“I am glad the Member raised this because it gives me an opportunity to speak about it. He may not have expected to get to his question, but I am glad he was able to raise it nonetheless. <BR /> <BR />On the question of meeting, I have committed to meeting NICVA — it is in the diary already — as an umbrella organisation for the community and voluntary sector, much of which is affected by the issue that the Member has raised. The Member raises an issue that revolves around something that has been described as core funding. This is core funding that goes to 67 organisations across Northern Ireland. As you would expect in the current climate, every spending line is being looked at across the board, and every Department should be doing that. Mine certainly is doing so, given the pressures that it faces.”
“I have been discussing the potential of guidance with leading obstetricians and others in Northern Ireland, and I think that there is an acceptance on their part that guidance may have the potential to resolve many of the issues. It is on that basis that I hope to bring forward the guidance and unite the Executive around it and, hopefully, get the support of the House and, more to the point, the support of the wider community and of people who have been affected.”
“I cannot say when it will be made public because there is a process to go through. In fact, I was discussing it with officials only this morning, and they hope to have it with me very shortly, this week. Obviously, I will take some time to consider it before forwarding it to Executive colleagues for, hopefully, their agreement. Thereafter, it will be published. <BR /> <BR />I hope that the House and the Member can see the motivation I have in ensuring that we do not have a situation where nothing is done. The Minister of Justice has a particular view, and others will have different views. Whilst I have a view that it may not pass through the House, I know that legislation takes time. Guidance has the potential to deal with many of the issues.”
“Nothing has been published, and nothing has been put out there. I am not committing myself to supporting that legislation. In its absence and even with the fact that it might take some time for it to pass, something has to be done, and I believe that the new guidance has the potential to deal with many of the issues that have unfolded in the last number of years. On that basis, I will bring forward guidance to the Executive in the not-too-distant future, and I make the point that it is not my guidance but guidance that has been developed by experts in my Department.”
“Whilst I am aware that the Member's colleague and my colleague in the Executive, the Minister of Justice, is intent on bringing forward legislative change, it is my view and the view of many in the House that there is a risk, because it is always the case with any legislation that is brought forward that it can get changed, altered or amended through the various processes in the House. It may not make it through all the processes in the House. The big concern that I have is that, in a situation where, clearly, something has to be done on the issue and it is not acceptable to continue with nothing being done, the worst possible outcome for the difficult cases that may unfold in the future is to do nothing. <BR /> <BR />I fear and worry about having no legislative change, and that is not with any prejudice.”
“This is another issue that is in my in tray, and it is one that has to be — I am sure the Member will agree — handled with the greatest sensitivity. That is the approach that I will take to the issue. We are dealing with a small number of cases, but they are very sensitive and difficult cases and they involve individuals and families in some of the most difficult of circumstances. I want to at all times — I hope that the House shares this view — bring that degree of sensitivity and appropriate handling to the issue. <BR /> <BR />I am very clear on what my concern is, and I have said this publicly already.”
“There is a vital role to be played by those hospitals in supporting the network of acute hospitals across Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />In respect of a primary care centre, I believe that Armagh is earmarked in the Southern Trust area for a primary care centre. However, we are moving forward, as the Member will appreciate, with the centres in Ballymena, Banbridge and Omagh, and then we will move forward with a different procurement model for the ones in Lisburn and Newry, which is in his constituency. We will evaluate that process and, beyond that, the strategic implementation plan, which is there to roll out the remainder, including Armagh. We will assess the future of those, their roll-out, the timing and the budget for all of that on the basis of the outcome of the evaluation of Lisburn and Newry.”
“I assure the Member that, whilst a consultation is being taken forward on the future of the Armagh minor injuries unit, it is proposed that all other services that are on site will remain there. There is no threat to them. <BR /> <BR />The Member mentioned getting a primary care centre in the Armagh area. I noticed early on in this job that there is a bit of a media fascination with decisions to close hospitals wholesale. That is not on my agenda. In fact, I want to see the further roll-out and progression of what we have seen being done to a very high standard, particularly in cancer care and coronary care, where we have regionalised specialist centres, where, in some cases, world-class care is taking place as we speak, supported by community hospitals such as those in Armagh and elsewhere in Northern Ireland.”
“Yes, I am aware of a consultation being conducted by the Southern Health and Social Care Trust in respect of the Armagh minor injuries unit that will run until 11 September. Whilst not wanting to pre-empt the outcome of that consultation, I join the Member in encouraging people who have an interest in the local community to participate in it.”
“Clearly, the young people are the most important people in this case, but support will also be given to families to ensure that they get the care that they need. <BR /> <BR />I agree entirely with the Member that it is a shocking and worryingly high figure, and it is the figure only for the young people who are presenting themselves. The problem is that there are obviously many more who do not call out or ask for help or whose issues are not spotted by their friends or family. It is deeply worrying that so many young people are having suicidal thoughts and, unfortunately, as we are tragically aware of today, taking their own life.”
“I agree with the Member that it is a shocking figure and a worrying upward trend. In some ways, it is deeply worrying that that has come about. That young people are able to present themselves is perhaps a sign of better awareness in the community. I suspect that numbers would not have been at that level in the recent past. However, a greater awareness among parents and communities has perhaps resulted in young people being able to present to hospital with suicidal tendencies. Once people enter that environment, the system will kick in and support them through community adolescent mental health services and other services. Again, many of those services are provided through the community and voluntary sector in Northern Ireland, and they will wrap themselves around that individual to help and support them and their family.”
“<BR /> <BR />There is no one particular reason, as I said. Mental health obviously plays a significant part, and post-traumatic stress may be associated with it, too. I am happy to go away and look at the research that the Member mentioned. I think that the whole House would acknowledge that it is a problem that we are aware of and one that we have considerable resources applied to, right across the region and subregionally. Many initiatives are taking place that work in conjunction and in partnership, as came up in a recent Adjournment debate secured by Gary Middleton on suicide in the north-west. There, partnership with community and voluntary sector organisations has greatly helped to improve awareness and, hopefully, to combat suicide right across the Province.”
“I am not familiar with that particular piece of work, but I am happy to familiarise myself with it. <BR /> <BR />There is no one cause of suicide. There is a range of reasons. Sometimes, we do not even know the reasons for people taking their own life. Obviously, there are many connections, and, as the Member highlighted, there are connections with people's mental health. There can also be connections with alcohol or drug abuse. There is a developing school of thought in Northern Ireland from looking at the spike in the number of suicides in and around 2006 and the evidence that flowed from that, with many people drawing correlations between the Troubles and the end of the Troubles and the latent post-traumatic stress that people may suffer from and saying that that is causing an increase in suicide.”