Simon Hamilton
Strangford · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I have emphasised to the Member and the House before, that, whilst I accept that those are not good enough — that is why we have been developing the plan — there are alternative technologies in place that can present opportunities for those who just cannot get acceptable speeds.”
“I thank the Member for his intervention. There are some initiatives that I believe will help and act as a driver to improve broadband access. One such intervention is the broadband universal service obligation (USO), which is being taken forward by Her Majesty's Government.”
“I thank the Member for his question. However, he is conflating two issues. I wrote to his party leader, and indeed to all Assembly party leaders, before making the announcement that I did last week about wanting to publish the details of the businesses in receipt of the non-domestic RHI scheme. It was my intention to do that tomorrow.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Chancellor, in his autumn statement, made some more funding available for telecommunications, and my Department is studying that and seeking to avail itself of that to the fullest possible extent.”
“In addition, my Department is managing a contract for the delivery of the superfast rollout programme, which, by 31 December, will provide access to superfast broadband with speeds of at least 24 megabits per second to a further 38,000 premises, both business and residential, across Northern Ireland, including in the Newry and Armagh cons…”
“I signalled the intention to do this a few weeks ago. The Member and the House will know that inspections of all installations would have taken place over the 20-year lifetime of the RHI scheme.”
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“I am up for that conversation; I think colleagues are up for that conversation; and I hope that others in the Executive will join that conversation, even if it is not between now and the end of October, as we agree a draft Budget. It is a conversation that desperately needs to be had very quickly to inform future budgets as we move forward.”
“Obviously, the Minister will choose to deploy the £80 million that he now has in other areas to ensure that healthcare in Northern Ireland is not compromised. <BR /> <BR />I still think that there is a huge challenge in the Department this year. If the 6% inflation figure is right and that is the sort of pressure that the Health Department will face next year and every year thereafter — we all know the reasons behind all that — we are facing into a very difficult scenario in health. That is why the reform plans initiated by my colleague Edwin Poots, when he was Minister, need to be implemented. We also need to have a strategic conversation as an Executive, an Assembly and a society in Northern Ireland about what our priorities in health are, what must be absolutely protected and what can be done, perhaps, in slightly different ways.”
“The previous Minister and the current Minister have set out the degree of pressures. Nobody will be better placed to understand those than the Chair of the Health Committee. The Health Minister faces pressures in his Department totalling around £160 million. Whilst the allocation of a total of £80 million does not go to deal with all of that, it is fair to say that the worst of those pressures will not materialise. That is certainly what the Health Minister said at the Executive last week when he talked about getting the extra £60 million. Earlier, in response to questions, I mentioned that it would mean that he would be able to continue to employ locum doctors and nurses and therefore not have to close down wards and, perhaps, not have to close down certain health facilities across Northern Ireland.”
“Whilst I know that some in the House are less enthusiastic about it, I do not think any of them have a plan or alternative that would have the transformative effect on our economy that a reduction in corporation tax would have. <BR /> <BR />I accept entirely the Member's points that there are costs involved and that, if past behaviour is anything to go by, it will be exceptionally difficult to reach agreement on where those commensurate cuts and reductions would have to be made. I think the fact that every party in the Executive is committed to doing it shows that there is at least a willingness to take the power, and there should then be a resultant maturity in making the reductions that, inevitably, will be required.”
“At a future point, a level of maturity on the part of some members of the Executive that, until this point, has not always been on display will be required to deal with that, but I still think it is the best option that we have in transforming our economy. I am the first to praise my colleague the Enterprise Minister for the sterling work that she and Invest Northern Ireland have been doing in attracting jobs to Northern Ireland, but, if we look at how they have attracted and promoted 7,000 jobs in this financial year already, we have to ask what we could do if we had reduced corporation tax? What would be the beneficial impact on not only the economy in Northern Ireland but the whole of society in Northern Ireland?”
“Of course, the first point in response to the Member is that, even if we get corporation tax powers, as I hope and expect we will by the end of this year — certainly a decision by the end of this year and powers devolved by the end of the Parliament — we will not be implementing the reduction and therefore taking the hit to the block grant immediately. It will be for us to decide when the reduction takes place. In that sense, that aspect of it is within our control. I will still be pursuing aggressively the devolution of corporation tax powers, in so far as we can at the conclusion of negotiations. There will be a cost. Nobody has ever run away or shied away from the fact and the reality that there will be a cost — a sizeable cost — to our block grant.”
“Of course, the parties that stood in front of this Building with placards and banners saying that they opposed Tory cuts have, by their own definition, been implementing Tory cuts since 2011. I hear Sinn Féin spokespeople on TV or radio talking about how our Budget has been going down because less money has been given to us from Westminster: they have been implementing those so-called Tory cuts since 2011 and continue to do so now.”
“Whatever way one wishes to describe them, they are reductions that, as I have described before, are self-inflicted wounds because of welfare reform. The Chancellor's letter makes it incredibly clear that the £87 million of forgone savings that would have been made on our welfare bill have now gone. They are gone. The £114 million will go. Some may want to style those as Tory cuts. However, it is very clear in the agreement that the Executive signed up to that all parties have accepted those conditions in order to access the £100 million facility. <BR /> <BR />I would rather that they were not there. In some senses, I do not accept them. I wish that we did not have to pay them. They have been accepted by all parties nonetheless.”
“<BR /> <BR />I have to say that, when it was presented at the Executive, it was accepted in the correct way. Subsequent political comment by Sinn Féin Members, including Sinn Féin Ministers, has been that they are up for the intensive period of work that is required over the next number of weeks to get a draft Budget out the door by the end of this month. So, I remain optimistic. As I said to Mr Wilson, there are significant challenges within that, but I am up for those. I will make every effort I can to deal with them, and I hope that other parties will do likewise. <BR /> <BR />Some wish to describe these as "Tory cuts". Others might want to describe them as Tory-Liberal cuts. Others in the House have their fingerprints on some of them.”
“The first point was about what confidence I have that we will get agreement on next year's Budget. The proposal was put to the parties at the Executive last week. It was made very clear in the proposal, not least because it is clear in the Chancellor's letter, which every Member now has, that we need to agree a balanced Budget and a credible plan for dealing with our problems by the end of this month. It is perhaps styled as a condition. I do not see it as a condition; I see it as entirely consistent with my position over the last number of weeks and months. It is exactly where we should be. We should not wait until after the end of this month to have a draft Budget out to consultation and be working towards agreement on the final Budget by the end of this year or the start of next year.”
“However, what we have bought — the Member used this phrase — is breathing space. We have given ourselves breathing space by getting ourselves out of the immediate, pressing problem of this year's situation. We have given ourselves breathing space to produce a credible plan and a balanced Budget for next year that will get us back on the straight and narrow.”
“We would either have overspent our Budget, which would have resulted in significant consequences for the Northern Ireland Executive and for public services, or we would have had to implement in-year cuts in the region of 8% to Departments that would have decimated public services in Northern Ireland. The horror stories that we heard from Ministers, from the Chief Constable and from others would have become a reality, and public services would have been in an unrecognisable position before the end of this financial year. If we had not done what we did, we would not have got ourselves out of the very pressing problems that we had in-year. <BR /> <BR />The Member made a point about borrowing for investment, and I agree. We borrow on the capital side for investment in the future.”
“I regret nothing about what we have done, and I regret nothing about what I have said today. Everything that I have said today is factual. I do not regret having produced, alongside the First Minister and with the agreement of the Executive, a solution to the problems that we faced. I say to the House and to the Member that what he would have regretted —more to the point, what his constituents and my constituents would have regretted — would have been if we had taken no action. If we had lived in the la-la land that the Alliance Party occupies and thought that we could have a big strategic decision about all our problems in-year, we would have had no solution at all.”
“Similar conversations need to be had in respect of education, which has benefited from a measure of protection over this financial year that I do not think came with any justification. We need to agree the modalities of a restructuring plan that helps us to live within our means. It will not do it in totality. We also have to accept that there will be significant reductions in spending in most Departments. If Members, particularly the Executive Ministers, can start to get their head around those strategic headline issues and where they stand on all those, we have a very good chance of agreeing a credible plan and a balanced Budget for next year that sets us on the right track for future years.”
“If Members thought that the 2011-15 Budget was tight and difficult, they have not seen anything yet. The 2015-16 Budget is not so much the last Budget of the 2011-15 period; it is the beginning of an entirely new era. <BR /> <BR />Tough, strategic headline decisions are required by Executive parties, and the Member has identified some of them, including the need to tackle welfare. If we do not do that, the problem will only get worse. I believe that we need to look at issues around the protection of Departments, and a conversation at least needs to be had on the totality of protection of Departments. The Member will recall that, in 2011, the protection offered to the Health Department was not total protection; it was to protect what we might describe as the NHS.”
“I will try my best to answer all those questions. The Member will know better than anybody else in the House that there is an immense challenge in getting a credible plan and a balanced Budget in place by the end of this month. I assure the Member and the House that significant volumes of work have been done by my Department to have a credible plan and a balanced Budget in place, but the difficulty and the sticking point will be getting the agreement of others to that credible plan and balanced Budget. He is right that tough decisions are required to arrive at that point. The idea that we will find a magic hat and pull a rabbit out of it is laughable. Whilst our economy is doing much better, we have turned the corner with public finances and are in a completely different era.”
“Whilst Members are free to criticise the nature of the facility, its repayment and its terms, as is their right, I do not think that any could deny that we have got ourselves out of the problem that we were facing in the short term and given ourselves some time to deal with the more medium- and long-term problems and challenges that we face.”
“Certainly, last week, I did not think that it was possible, and there was no indication from Sinn Féin that it was up for that sort of discussion and up for agreement on a solution of the totality of our Budget problems. To be honest, whilst they are serious problems that we face, the big problem we faced last week, which has now been averted, was either significant overspend in our Budget and all the consequences that flow from that or having to make cuts to budgets, in-year, in the region of 8%. That would have precipitated all the horror stories and nightmare scenarios that various Ministers, the Chief Constable and others painted for us on TV and radio over the last weeks. I thought that neither of those options was viable and that something else needed to be done.”
“Mr Campbell's summary of the position of some in the Executive — an indefensible position — is right. From what I have heard in part today and certainly over the weekend I know that he is right that some of the criticism is that we did not have a comprehensive solution to all the problems that we face. I have a degree of sympathy for that argument. This is not, as I said in my statement, an all-encompassing, all-embracing, comprehensive settlement of all the budgetary pressures that we face. That is what I would like. That is the ideal position. It is what I have been pressing for over a number of weeks and months. However, it was not possible.”
“However, as the Member points out, as long as some Members want to bury their head in the sand on the issue, we will face a further £114 million of reductions next year.”
“Whilst this agreement has, I think, got us through the problems that we have faced this year — problems that have been exacerbated by the failure of some to live up to reality in respect of welfare reform — the reality of the situation, as confirmed by the Chancellor and despite the fact that some thought that they could dream, wish or plead for those penalties to disappear, is that they have not. They are being taken out of our Budget. Whilst, as I said to other Members, getting that £87 million back, if we could — I believe that, if we make progress, we may be able to — would not solve all our problems, it would certainly make things a lot easier and help us with a significant number of the problems that we face.”
“I thank the Member for his question. The fifth bullet point in the Chancellor's letter makes it clear that amendments to the Executive's departmental expenditure limit control totals to be processed at the Supplementary Estimates round, which related to foregone AME savings due to the failure to progress welfare reform, remain as set out in the Chief Secretary's earlier correspondence; that is, minus £87 million in this financial year and a planned minus £114 million in the next financial year.”
“When I hear criticism about my mismanagement of the overall Budget, I think that there are some others who have questions to answer about the management of their budgets.”
“Over the monitoring rounds since 2012, the Department of Justice, even though it has that degree of protection and all of those special measures, has bid for over £225 million more in resources through monitoring rounds, of which £75·9 million — so, one third of that money that was bid for by the Department of Justice — has been for legal aid. <BR /> <BR />Whilst I accept that there are reductions and they do put pressure on Departments, it is my reading of the situation that the pressures are not coming from the in-year reductions but are there because the Minister has chosen — up to this point anyway, before he got the allocation of £29 million — to cross-subsidise those pressures by taking money from the police and giving it to legal aid.”
“He is seeing only £18 million being taken out of his budget as opposed to close to £50 million. The Minister is in a better position. <BR /> <BR />Quite why the Chief Constable does not think that £29 million is enough, I do not know. I think that it is because the Minister of Justice has, in my estimation, been cross-subsidising pressures elsewhere in his budget, primarily in legal aid, by taking money away from front line police services. When I listen to criticism from the Alliance Party about my predecessor and me mismanaging the Budget, one has only to look at the justice budget, which, of course, as my predecessor would be able to outline better than I can, has a degree of protection that no other Department has and special arrangements put in place.”
“The Department of Health is a very good example of that, and I am sure that the Department of Justice is exactly the same. My best guess — in fact, it is not a guess but is based on comments that were made by the Justice Minister to the Executive last week — is that the pressures that he is dealing with in his Department do not just emanate from the reductions that are having to be made in year. I think that it would be incredibly churlish if the Minister of Justice did not accept that he is a better position today as a result of this solution than he would otherwise have been. His Department would have faced close to £50 million of in-year reductions if we had applied the 4·4% reductions in June and October. By getting £29 million back, he is better off than he would have been by a considerable amount.”
“I would not try to speak for the Chief Constable — I shudder at the thought — but I have to say at the outset that I was deeply disappointed by some of comments that he made at the tail end of last week. I felt that some of his comments were political in tone and nature. If I were to stand before this House and make operational comments about the police, I would be told that I was wrong to do so. I think that the same applies to the Chief Constable's making political comments. <BR /> <BR />That having been said, I cannot explain why he does not think that it is enough. I suppose that, in a broad sense, no Chief Constable or Minister would think that what they get is enough to deal with all of the problems that they have.”
“I know and accept, and I hope that the whole House appreciates, that the Minister will still have difficult decisions to make because he did not get the full £160 million that he believes is required. He has only roughly half of that. From conversations that I have had with the Minister, I am assured that the worst of those cuts have now been alleviated because of the Executive's decision to allocate a total of £80 million to the Department of Health this year.”
“It allows the Health Minister not to have to proceed with those sorts of drastic, savage, severe cuts in his Department.”
“I would never suggest that an allocation of £60 million on top of the £20 million for health — £80 million in total — is going to alleviate all the problems that the Department continues to face in this year. I listened to the previous Minister and I listen to the current Minister, and they have said things to me such as, "If I don't get this allocation, I won't be able to continue to employ locum doctors and locum nurses. The impact of that would be that wards in hospitals would be closed. Indeed, the very viability of some facilities across Northern Ireland would be called into question". When I hear that, I know that we have to act. That is why we came up with the solution that we have before us. It is a good solution in the circumstances that we find ourselves.”
“Therefore, it is not me and my party that are found wanting when it comes to having a sensible, reasonable, strategic approach to dealing with our financial problems. It is, of course, the fault of the system of government that we have, which is a system of government that, in large measure, we have the Alliance Party to thank for.”
“His party leader was quizzed repeatedly yesterday on the BBC about what he would have done instead. He offers no alternative whatsoever. <BR /> <BR />The Member asks for a more strategic approach. One of the things that sickens me about the discourse around this issue, particularly emanating from the Alliance Party, is the plague-on-all-your-houses argument that the DUP is as bad as Sinn Féin. I put it to the Member, as I said in response to other questions, that I have been pushing for a strategic approach to the Budget from as far back as December last year. That offer was not taken up by Sinn Féin. I have tried, tried and tried again to deal with our in-year problems as early as I possibly can to give Departments, Ministers and officials the certainty that they require. I have been blocked on every occasion by Sinn Féin.”
“I take it very seriously when the Chief Constable talks about the Police Service being unrecognisable as a result of our inability to give him money that he needs. <BR /> <BR />When I hear that, my response is to come up with a solution to the problem. The Member and his party may not like the solution, but it is a solution. It is a solution that ensures that we do not have to make any more cuts than the 4·4% cuts that were planned for. It is a solution that allows us to make allocations of £125 million to Departments, including his party colleague's Department, the Department of Justice. It is a solution that ensures that we do not breach our Budget and have to deal with the consequences of all of that. I hear the Member criticise, but I do not hear him offering any alternative — none whatsoever.”
“I listen to the Member's comments, and he criticises the way in which we have got ourselves out of the pressing problem that was happening in-year, when we had all the stuff that was being said by the then Health Minister about what would have happened if he had not got the additional £60 million. <BR /> <BR />I heard the Justice Minister, his party colleague and, more importantly, the Chief Constable talk about how the Police Service of Northern Ireland would be unrecognisable without an allocation of at least £29 million. I am sure that the Minister would have taken more if it had been available. I am not sure whether he is going to take it all or not, given the means by which it has been distributed.”
“Yet he sent his Minister into the Executive last week to vote against the very allocation that he called for in the House. The Deputy Speaker may or may not allow me to call it certain things, but I do think that it is double standards and two-faced, on the one hand, to call for such an allocation and then, on the other hand, to vote against the very same allocation when it is proposed at the Executive.”
“"Double standards" is the tolerable phrase offered. There are certainly double standards in play on a whole range of issues in respect of the response of some parties to this facility, which has got us out of the problems that we face this year. It has done so without the need for further cuts to budgets and the crisis that there would have been in public spending as a result of them. It has allowed us to make £125 million of allocations, including £1·3 million to victims' services. Whilst I did not participate in it, I was aware of and heard part of the debate in the House last Tuesday. The motion was brought to the House by members of the Ulster Unionist Party; I think that the leader of that party proposed the motion.”
“Can I check with you, Mr Deputy Speaker, whether the phrase "two-faced" is OK?”
“The Member has used the word "hypocritical". I look to the Deputy Speaker; I do not wish to incur his wrath.”
“Had we not come up with this idea and accessed the facility, we would now be on the cusp of a real crisis in public services in Northern Ireland.”
“In response to Mr Flanagan, I touched on the need for a credible plan and how it will be based very much on a restructuring plan and the realisation of some savings by reducing headcount and by some pay restraint. I hope, too, that we can reach political agreement on reducing the size of Stormont as well so that there will be fewer Departments and fewer Assembly Members, taking down some of that "ugly scaffolding" that somebody once talked about and saving some money on a recurring basis through that. <BR /> <BR />It will be challenging and difficult. Our challenges are added to by this. However, I still think that, in the circumstances, it was much better that we accessed the facility and dealt with our in-year problems, which were extremely pressing.”
“I do not run away from the fact that the loan facility exacerbates our problems next year. I would be wrong to say otherwise. The money will come off our baseline, and that process will start this year, much as it will in terms of reducing our Budget by the £114 million welfare reform penalty. Again I make the point that, were we able to reach political agreement on moving that forward, it would not alleviate all the problems that we face, but it would make life a lot easier. <BR /> <BR />It will be a challenge on top of those other pressures that we face, including a real-terms reduction to our starting position for next year. It will be incredibly difficult, and that difficulty is now added to by the need to repay that facility.”
“In a situation where pressures rise at 6% each year, it will not be long before health eats up nearly the entire Budget. We need to take very serious decisions, follow through on the reform plan initiated by Mr Poots, and try to ensure that the people of Northern Ireland get the health service that they deserve.”
“That is a matter for the Minister and his party to explain. I accept, as well, that the allocation is not everything that the Department of Health would want, could absorb or could spend between now and the end of the financial year. <BR /> <BR />To go back to the point about the draft Budget, I think that there is a need for a conversation leading up to the draft Budget and, certainly, leading up to agreement on a final Budget, and also leading up to the comprehensive spending review and the next set of Budgets for future years about strategic issues of health and health funding. I see my colleague the former Minister of Health in the House. He and I have spoken frequently about the need for us to decide, as an Assembly and indeed as a society, about how much we want to spend on health.”
“That is regrettable, and equally regrettable is his failure to vote for £29 million to alleviate the pressures that the Chief Constable and others have been facing and, indeed, for £1·3 million to victims' services.”
“At the risk of repeating myself, I am optimistic that we can do it. I will certainly put in every effort required on my part — my Department will do likewise — to ensure that we have a Budget in place by the end of this month that meets that condition. It is a condition, and the letter is now before the House. However, as I said before, it is a least a month, if not six weeks, later than I would have liked to have had a draft Budget agreed and out the door. <BR /> <BR />I thank the Member for welcoming the allocation of a further £60 million to the Health Department. Unfortunately, her Minister in the Executive, Mr Kennedy, did not see fit to vote for that allocation of £60 million. It is a matter for him to explain why he did not want that much-needed £60 million going to the Department of Health.”
“That would give Departments roughly three months to plan for what, in most cases, will be considerable reductions to their baseline.”
“<BR /> <BR />A lot of work has been undertaken by my Department to hollow out precisely what the situation is in terms of the pressures that we will face next year. That narrows the decisions that we have to take to agree a draft Budget down to some headline issues, such as wanting to protect a Department or some Departments, wanting to take forward a restructuring plan and various other headline issues. The choices that you then have before you are quite limited in terms of how you spend the money that you have. That being said, I am optimistic that, if there is goodwill on all sides, we could have a draft Budget out the door by the end of this month, out to public consultation and agreed in final Budget format at the start of the year.”
“To be perfectly honest, I would have liked to have had a draft Budget out to consultation by this stage. To follow on from the response to Mr Flanagan, there will be very few Departments that will escape next year's Budget without some degree of reduction to their spending position compared with this year. In that sort of scenario, in which Departments are facing quite sizeable reductions, they need the optimum amount of time to plan. I actually submitted a paper to the Executive last December setting out how you would have an ideal Budget process, which would have much broader consultation with the general public and the Assembly. Unfortunately, that was not taken, and we are now in this very shoehorned position. However, I still think that it is achievable.”
“The Member is right in terms of benefits accruing over a long period of time. If the Executive can take a decision in respect of a scheme within the next month, it is our view that we can have a scheme in place by roughly this time next year, or maybe a little earlier. That will allow for benefits to accrue next year. One of the conditions that the Chancellor has set down is that we have to have a credible plan to lead towards a balanced Budget. This, obviously, would be part of that credible plan. Once we, as an Executive, have taken a decision on it, I would like to discuss with the Chancellor how such a scheme could be funded so that we can realise the benefits from it as quickly as possible.”
“It is our view that we can save money by having a continued degree of pay restraint and a voluntary redundancy scheme. I particularly welcome the response of the likes of Brian Campfield from NIPSA, who took a very open response to it. He did not rule it out out of hand; he said that it was a good idea in the circumstances. Obviously we will have to engage with the unions and do some work over the next number of months.”