Simon Hamilton
Strangford · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I have emphasised to the Member and the House before, that, whilst I accept that those are not good enough — that is why we have been developing the plan — there are alternative technologies in place that can present opportunities for those who just cannot get acceptable speeds.”
“I thank the Member for his intervention. There are some initiatives that I believe will help and act as a driver to improve broadband access. One such intervention is the broadband universal service obligation (USO), which is being taken forward by Her Majesty's Government.”
“I thank the Member for his question. However, he is conflating two issues. I wrote to his party leader, and indeed to all Assembly party leaders, before making the announcement that I did last week about wanting to publish the details of the businesses in receipt of the non-domestic RHI scheme. It was my intention to do that tomorrow.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Chancellor, in his autumn statement, made some more funding available for telecommunications, and my Department is studying that and seeking to avail itself of that to the fullest possible extent.”
“In addition, my Department is managing a contract for the delivery of the superfast rollout programme, which, by 31 December, will provide access to superfast broadband with speeds of at least 24 megabits per second to a further 38,000 premises, both business and residential, across Northern Ireland, including in the Newry and Armagh cons…”
“I signalled the intention to do this a few weeks ago. The Member and the House will know that inspections of all installations would have taken place over the 20-year lifetime of the RHI scheme.”
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“It is doing pretty well, and I commend the Harbour Commissioners for their stewardship of the Port of Belfast and for the development of land around it. However, I think that it is only right and proper that, occasionally, although not all the time, government here at Stormont should seek to release value from it that can be deployed elsewhere on behalf of our citizens. I think that is perfectly reasonable, and I do not think that it should be met by the threat of legal challenge by the port. They should seek to work with us to release value from it as a one-off or on a short-term basis. <BR /> <BR />The fact that it is not in the draft Budget does not mean that I have given up on it. I am not sure whether the same could be said for the Minister for Regional Development.”
“I am not sure that I would agree with the characterisation of being "hoodwinked". Whilst next year's Budget will not be predicated on releasing £20 million from the port, I do not think that we as an Executive should give up on the pursuit of releasing value from the port. It is, after all, a public asset, and, whilst I am not pleased with the endeavours made by the Department for Regional Development, I am equally not pleased with the way that the Harbour Commissioners have behaved in this respect. In my view, they have not been willing to meet with the Executive to meet halfway or even to compromise in some way. This is a publicly owned asset that is operated on our behalf by the Port of Belfast and the Harbour Commissioners.”
“In monitoring rounds in the last number of financial years we had been allocating £20 million to the port, although we have not agreed to do that this year because of the difficult circumstances that we are in in-year.”
“Whilst I supported seeking to get that £20 million from the port, unfortunately that has not been possible due to legal difficulties. I am incredibly disappointed that the Department for Regional Development has not pursued that £20 million with the gusto that I would have expected it to. I would not be alone in taking the view that there was never really seriousness in that Department about pursuing that £20 million. That is why we are in the situation now where we do not have it. <BR /> <BR />I have had to restore that £20 million to the baseline in next year's Budget, the 2015-16 Budget, because I do not think that it would be feasible to continue without doing that or dealing with the issue conclusively.”
“I am glad that the Member clarified that that was not a Gregorian chant. If that was anything to go by, I certainly do not think that a recording career awaits him. <BR /> <BR />The Member is right that the current Budget that we are in, which is the 2011-15 Budget, was predicated on "releasing value" — I think that was the term that was used — from the Port of Belfast. The Port of Belfast is one of our biggest and most profitable companies in Northern Ireland, and there was a widespread view in the Executive that there was value to be extracted from it. That is because the port has done incredibly well not just in growing its core business of being a port but principally in the development of land in its ownership.”
“<BR /> <BR />Let us bear in mind that money is not just going to drop from the sky to the Executive between draft and final stage to allow us to give it all to universities or colleges, much as we might like that. However, I am prepared to commit myself to working towards doing that. It is an area of the Budget that I would like to see increased, or certainly the impact of the cuts on it reduced, between draft and final Budget. However, that will take considerable effort, and it will not be an easy task, given the financial circumstances that we find ourselves in.”
“<BR /> <BR />I have said — I think that I said it last Monday — that the area of the Budget settlement that I am least satisfied with is probably the Department for Employment and Learning's settlement. There are reasons to do with how the Minister put forward his bids. They were not inescapable bids, which would have allowed me to meet them much more easily than I might otherwise have been able to. However, I am prepared to work with him, and I will be meeting him in the next number of weeks. I am prepared to meet those in the broad university/college sector, and others as well, to see what we can do in these difficult circumstances.”
“I hope that the whole House, including the Member and his party colleagues, recognise the very difficult financial circumstances that the Executive find ourselves in. It would be incredibly difficult; every area of public spending, at Budget time, becomes a priority. I am already starting to hear representations from a wide range of groups saying that their area of funding should not merely be protected but increased. Whenever those representations come forward, I very rarely get any suggestions from those people as to where the money might be found, what other budget it might be taken from, or what source of revenue might be increased to bridge the gap.”
“<BR /> <BR />There would also be an issue of policing it: how would we police it and ensure that they were doing it? There would also be a situation where somebody in a firm was generally getting paid a normal wage that was below the living wage, but for Government contracts they would be on a living wage. You could have a situation where for three days of the week they were getting paid a living wage, and for two days of the week they were back down to, say, the national minimum wage. There are issues and practical difficulties. It is not something that I am pursuing as a policy. I imagine that, for most of the contracts that we are letting, people are being paid around or above the minimum wage anyway, but I think that there are practical concerns that we would have to bear in mind if we were to head down that route.”
“This was the subject of a debate some time ago in the House, and, as far as I am concerned, the issues have not radically changed. Again, we want the people who are winning procurement contracts to pay those who work for them an appropriate wage. The difficulty, I think, is that there is a range of issues that we would have to be mindful of if we were to seek to enforce it in all Government contracts. <BR />The first is that it is likely that the successful contractor would push the price onto us as the customer, and that we would see the price that we are paying for contracts go up as a result of increased costs. That would ultimately mean, as it happened across the board, that there would be less money in the public purse to spend on projects that benefit Northern Ireland.”
“That is why I think it is right that we keep household taxes low in Northern Ireland, but we have to be mindful that that is caused by the fact that perhaps their wages have not been increasing, or, particularly in the private sector, their wages have gone down over the last number of years. So I do want to see, as the economy grows — I think that all of us would want to see, as the economy grows — employers uplifting the pay of their employees. I think that we would all agree with that. <BR /> <BR />As for conducting a study, I have nothing against it. I am not entirely sure, given the nature of the subject, whether it is my Department's responsibility or the Department of Enterprise's responsibility to do something like that. Certainly, it is something that I will consult colleagues on.”
“<BR /> <BR />I do want to see wages increase. I think that there is an obligation on employers, as the economy improves and they see their own positions as companies improve, to pass on the benefits of those improvements to their staff. Whilst I and other colleagues in the House could ream off a whole selection of statistics that show that our economy is growing — economic growth is happening, unemployment is going down, employment is going up, property prices are rising; there is a whole range of indicators — the one place in which I do not think economic recovery is being felt is in people's pockets.”
“The Member and I will not disagree about whether increased wages are a good thing. In fact, the essence of the previous Minister's contribution on the radio this morning was that what we want to see in our economy is increasing wages. That is precisely what the economic strategy that has been agreed by the Executive is all about. As Mr Wilson pointed out today, the majority of the jobs that Invest Northern Ireland has attracted have been for well in excess of the median wage in Northern Ireland. That in itself is a way in which we can combat low pay in our economy — by attracting new jobs that pay in excess of the average wage. That is something that we should continue to pursue. It is a worthy goal of our economic strategy. It is not even a worthy goal; it is something that we have actually been achieving.”
“I do not see how the introduction of a living wage would impact on savings or receipts in Northern Ireland. Whilst an analysis of the economic impact of replacing the minimum wage with the living wage has not been conducted by my Department, the key issue is that any increased tax receipts would accrue to the Treasury, as would any social security benefits savings. <BR /> <BR />Whilst the Northern Ireland Executive might in theory benefit from increased revenue through the regional rate, any impact is likely to be marginal at best. It is also important to recognise that the living wage for Northern Ireland may be lower than in the rest of the UK, reflecting the lower house prices and the support that the Executive are providing by holding rates low and not introducing water charges.”
“I am thinking about imaginative and creative ways of exploiting that and getting, in that case, a 10:1 benefit out of it.”
“I think one of the ways in which the draft Budget does that is through the proposal to create an investment fund. Mr Cree is just over the Member's right shoulder; he is a frequent questioner in the House about the use of financial transactions capital. That is an innovative and imaginative way in which we can use that financial transactions capital. We actually run the risk of not being able to spend all of our allocation this year. <BR /> <BR />The investment fund that I speak about ticks the box that the Member is talking about because it is going to put in about £100 million of financial transactions capital over the next number of years and will leverage in around £1 billion additional investment from, we hope, the European Investment Bank. So that is extracting better value out of the money that we receive from Treasury.”
“I am thinking primarily of things like prescription charges and a reintroduction of some level of prescription charges so long as the revenue is targeted towards some of those pressures that our colleague the Health Minister is facing over drugs for cancer and other serious illnesses. <BR /> <BR />I listened with interest to the contribution by the two vice chancellors last week. A similar argument could be made for a small increase in student fees that would go to support the higher education sector through some of the difficulties it is going to have in the next financial year. I am happy to explore and look at those things, but I think it needs a measure of reality in all parts and broad support around the Chamber —”
“I am happy — "content" is probably a better word — to look at a range of other measures that might have broader political support, and it is important that, if we start to entertain other ideas, they have a measure of broad political support and cannot just be one party or another party introducing it itself through a Department. <BR /> <BR />I am thinking of things like rates. Rates is what is called an unhypothecated tax, where the money comes in and goes to a range of services. It does not go to particular services. I would be content and prepared to look at hypothecating revenue from some sources going to particular areas.”
“Some have tried to characterise the Budget as not raising revenue at all. It does include an increase in our rates, and the regional rate will go up by the rate of inflation, which I think is the right level for it to go up by. I think that people understand that our costs are rising, just as their costs are rising, and I think that an inflationary increase is acceptable. Anything beyond that, and you are into the sort of difficulties that I was outlining to Mr Ó hOisín in terms of the pressures that households are under. Our rates take will go up because of increasing the regional rate by the rate of inflation. <BR /> <BR />I think that there is limited scope for other charges or costs to be implemented.”
“Whilst the economy, in my view, is recovering, doing a lot better and improving all the time, we have to be mindful and very careful about increasing the tax take from our citizens at a time when many of them are still feeling under significant pressure.”
“It is interesting to observe what they are doing in Scotland at the minute, where they are attempting to have a more progressive stamp duty land tax system put in place or a transactional tax as I think they call it. I am open to looking at all of those. I do not think that they would have the same transformative effect on our economy as, for example, the likes of corporation tax would, but they are interesting to look at nonetheless, and if they provide some benefit for Northern Ireland and are affordable, I would be supportive of devolving them, particularly if they have a defined social and/or economic benefit. <BR /> <BR />We have to bear in mind that our ability to raise revenue off a very small tax base is limited and, even if it was progressive, somebody still has to pay for it.”
“I am tempted to put it to the back to the Member to suggest where he thinks that could take place. We have to be careful. I know that the Member and his party are prone to thinking that money grows on trees sometimes. Even just inserting the word "progressive" in front of something almost seems to suggest that it takes away the pain of having to pay any tax, but people and businesses have to pay in some way. <BR /> <BR />A study has been undertaken by my Department, which will conclude very soon, into additional tax-varying powers that we might want to take on as an Assembly. Some of those that might be in a more favourable position are things like landfill tax or stamp duty.”
“The only strategic lever open to the Executive to raise significant amounts of additional funding is the regional rate, which contributes approximately £650 million to public services. The Executive have agreed that, in 2015-16, regional rates will increase by the rate of inflation only. I consider it unfair to ask our citizens to pay more at a time when our economy is still recovering. For the most part, the power to generate additional income lies with individual Departments rather the Executive as a whole. Although no specific proposals have been included as part of the draft Budget, Ministers are encouraged to consider options for increasing revenue where appropriate.”
“The Executive are facing a 1·6% real terms reduction in their resource departmental expenditure limit (DEL) in 2015-16. Combined with a number of central and departmental pressures, that means that all Departments will be required to deliver significant savings in 2015-16 and beyond. The draft Budget, which I announced on 3 November, sets out the Executive’s plan for a balanced budget in 2015-16.”
“No, I have not assessed whether there are any gender differences. As we talked about yesterday during the debate, sometimes there is a focus on flexible working being around flexitime, which is available to a wide range of civil servants, or it is about homeworking and things like that. However, it can be about job sharing and other aspects that may be, I am guessing, more prevalent among female members of staff. I have no evidence to back that up, but I will certainly dig that out for the Member and provide her with it. It may be helpful in revealing whether there are issues around the take-up, particularly by female members of staff and whether that is a barrier to progression to the Senior Civil Service, where, of course, we have an issue about attracting more women into Senior Civil Service grade posts.”
“The asset management strategy is seeking to realise, and has been realising, over £15 million of savings a year as we consolidate the Civil Service office estate. However, with the best will in the world, and with respect to the Member, I do not think that adopting flexible working policies is going to see us through a £200 million spending shortfall in Northern Ireland, never mind a £1 billion spending shortfall between now and the end of the decade.”
“We would need a lot of savings like that across different places to bridge a £200 million spending gap, never mind a £1 billion spending gap. <BR /> <BR />We can certainly use that to help make savings, although it is not the principal objective. The principal objective for me is to ensure that you get better work/life balance, that people are working closer to home, and that it fits in around their care and the other needs that they might have as ordinary citizens. Of course, you will not get significant savings through flexible working if you do not have a commensurate reduction in the footprint of the Civil Service estate across Northern Ireland, and that is something that we have been aggressively pursuing.”
“I do not actually agree with the premise that the Member is putting forward. When we are facing — as we are in the next financial year — over £200 million worth of reductions in public spending, and when we are looking at a public spending landscape to the end of this decade where 13% in real terms reduction is what we could face in cuts to our spending, which would be equivalent to over a further £1 billion coming out of public spending in Northern Ireland, with the best will in the world, the adoption of all of the flexible working practices that you could think of will not bridge that gap. For example, if you take Marlborough House as the business zone that allows staff to work there even if they are not actually based in Marlborough House in Craigavon, the indicative monthly saving on travel costs to those staff is £5,300.”
“There is also one in Marlborough House in Craigavon and one in Academy House in Ballymena, and they allow staff to plug into the system securely, even though they are not based in those buildings. There is a range of other measures that we have been able to bring forward. My job is to ensure that the policy is there and the technology is there. It is very much up to the Departments, where and when appropriate, to take that forward. I will not be found wanting in making sure that the policies and the technology are there to allow increased productivity in the way that the Member suggests.”
“Whilst there was understandable criticism of some elements of our policy development by the Committee in its report, it was an opportunity for me to highlight where we have been doing a good job in becoming an exemplar, particularly in the use of teleconferencing. The Member will be interested to know that, in his constituency, on a daily basis, NI Direct staff in Belfast have teleconferencing meetings with their counterparts in Londonderry, which allows staff to work closer to home. <BR /> <BR />We have also developed a range of business zones, or hubs, across Northern Ireland. That is something that I am keen to take forward with the Department where opportunities might arise. So we have some in Belfast and Castle Buildings on the Stormont estate.”
“I heard the Member's contribution on the radio this morning. We might come on to that, as question 4 is probably more relevant to that. So I do not want to say anything about that just yet. <BR /> <BR />In the circumstances in which we find ourselves, with less money available to government in Northern Ireland to spend, we want to see increases in productivity. That can be a challenge in the circumstances, but, irrespective of the circumstances, we should always seek to increase productivity across the board. I appreciate that being a more flexible employer and making new practices, new policies and new technologies available to our staff is important. <BR /> <BR />We had a short but, nonetheless, useful debate on the subject yesterday in the Assembly, and we were able to highlight some things.”
“However, decisions to deploy technology to support a more flexible or agile work style are a matter for individual business areas in Departments.”
“The Northern Ireland Civil Service is generally regarded as an exemplar employer in its flexible working human resource policies. The Civil Service offers a range of flexible working patterns such as flexitime, term-time and part-time working and job sharing to support staff in the balance between their work commitments and life responsibilities. Whilst there is a guiding and overriding principle that the flexibility should be achieved without adverse effect on the overall efficiency of Departments or on service to the public, the aim of the flexible working policies is not primarily to reduce costs. <BR /> <BR />My Department provides the technology to support a range of flexible working options.”
“It is not quite right yet, and it is not quite where we need it to be, but there is an improvement, with a sizeable increase between quarter 1 and quarter 2 of this year and a year-on-year increase. So there are signs that there is an improvement in the availability of finance for small to medium-sized enterprises, which is so essential for wanting to grow our economy.”
“<BR /> <BR />There is always scope for improvement, and I am always willing to listen to people who will suggest that improvements can be made. Some 81% of contracts between April and August have been awarded to SMEs, with 74% of contracts awarded to Northern Ireland firms. So, Northern Ireland firms do pretty well in respect of government procurement in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />With regard to issues with banks and small to medium-sized enterprises, we are seeing from the published lending data that, as a result of the work put in over the last number of years, there is a loosening up in the availability of cash to small to medium-sized enterprises.”
“That is a fairly wide-ranging question. The Member has successfully inserted the issues of procurement and small and medium-sized enterprises into a question about banking. It is an area that I receive a lot of correspondence about from time to time, not least from the Member and others. I appreciate that it is impossible to satisfy everybody with regard to procurement. There are always winners and losers, given the nature of the contest that goes on for public sector tenders, which are sizeable. We are a large customer in Northern Ireland. Government spends about £2·6 billion each year on public procurement. I am content that we have managed, in so far as we can, to strike a balance between value for money and ensuring that local small to medium-sized enterprises get a fair chunk of the business.”
“If there is an attempt, and I believe there to be a genuine willingness on the part of banks, to engage better with government, we will all be the beneficiaries. The recommendations were put to the joint ministerial task force on banking. The Secretary of State, Treasury and business Ministers from Whitehall were also present. There are many parts of the recommendations that they can take on board as well. I put on record my thanks to the members of the panel for their work to date.”
“We took receipt of their report and its recommendations, which covered four broad areas: looking at the structure of our banking sector in Northern Ireland, which is recognised as being different and unique to this part of the United Kingdom; property overhang, which the Member and the House will be familiar with as being a particular problem in Northern Ireland; the education needed across the board on the changed circumstances in banking in Northern Ireland; and, importantly, and something that we can take forward quite quickly, the need for banks, business and government to work much better together and to improve communication between them. <BR /> <BR />Members will be aware of the difficulties that we have had as a House, and which the Committees have had, in engaging with banks in the past.”
“I thank the Member for his question. The House will recall that the access-to-finance implementation panel was established by my counterpart the Enterprise Minister Arlene Foster and me to take forward the recommendations in Minister Foster's economic advisory group's report on access to finance. We have been very well served by the members on the panel, namely, Russel Griggs, who heads up the appeals mechanism for the British Bankers' Association; John Trethowan, head of the Irish Credit Review Office: and Ann McGregor, who will be familiar to many in the House as the chief executive of the Northern Ireland Chamber of Commerce. Their direct experience with banks and local businesses has been invaluable to Minister Foster and me in improving access to finance.”
“However, if the Member has been informed differently, I would be happy to take receipt of that information and take it up with the banks in the regular meetings that I have with them.”
“As I said in my response, I am not aware of it being a major issue. If the Member is in receipt of different evidence, I am happy to look at it. In fact, if the Member wishes to furnish me with any information that she has on differences or perceived discrepancies between banking charges on this side of the Irish border versus the other, particularly within the same bank — bearing in mind, of course, that whilst they may be part of the same group, they are different companies and operate in different currencies — I would be very content to do so. There are, perhaps, a range of explanations for why it may be the case, but, as of yet, I have not received a wealth of correspondence from anyone suggesting that it is a problem.”
“Whilst I meet the local banks regularly, the focus of the discussions is on current levels of lending to small and medium-sized enterprises and restructuring to ensure that local areas continue to have adequate access to financial services. I would be happy to raise with the banks any concerns or evidence in respect of customers in Northern Ireland being unfairly subject to higher bank charges, but I am not aware that it is a major issue. In addition, differences in banking charges are a consumer issue, which, perhaps, the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment would be in a better position to take forward. It is, of course, a matter for the Irish Government to represent the interests of banking customers resident in the Republic of Ireland, although that should not be to the detriment of Northern Ireland customers.”
“I assure Members that we will continue to keep pace with developments in the area and introduce new policies and technologies in relation to flexible working as the need arises.”
“It should be the responsibility of each Department to evaluate how enhanced flexible working can benefit its business and make an informed decision on whether to support a more flexible or agile work style. DFP will certainly provide the technologies to support that work if a suitable business case has been produced. We will also continue to promote staff awareness of Civil Service flexible working practices through ongoing staff communication. <BR /> <BR />The flexible working report contains many useful observations and proposals. My Department has already introduced a range of schemes and technologies to facilitate flexible working in the Civil Service and has addressed some of the issues highlighted in the report.”
“<BR /> <BR />I acknowledge the Committee’s view that there is potential for savings to be made by utilising a more flexible or agile work style. However, those savings will be achieved only if there is a net reduction in office accommodation space. We should not have a situation in which one person holds a workstation in their normal office base as well as in a remote location. <BR /> <BR />The Chair mentioned the need to reduce the carbon footprint. The asset management strategy, which he is familiar with, tries to do that on an ongoing basis. We are putting in open-plan office accommodation to Workplace NI standards. The Member knows that I have an open-plan office in Clare House. Even though I sometimes look out and see Mr McIlveen looking back at me, it is a price worth paying to lead by example.”
“If we add an additional monitoring and reporting role for DFP, there is a danger that we could introduce an additional level of unnecessary bureaucracy into the process. Therefore, I feel that the proposal needs further consideration in order to develop the most appropriate approach. Likewise, the proposal for a new Programme for Government commitment on flexible working needs careful examination. I recognise that flexible working is an important issue that should be considered and addressed. However, I am not sure that a PFG commitment is an appropriate mechanism for that. PFG targets should be about the level of service delivered to the people of Northern Ireland, not the internal processes used to deliver those services.”
“It ended flexible working as recently as February last year, in part because it believed that some of the best ideas and decisions came in places such as the cafeteria and the hallways and as people bumped into one another throughout the workplace. Its feeling was that impromptu team meetings were not happening and that there was reduced creativity and less camaraderie among staff as a result of flexible working. <BR /> <BR />Individual Departments are in the best position to examine the feasibility of enhanced flexible working for their business processes. They are also best placed to assess the costs and benefits of additional flexible working practices and to develop the associated business case.”
“I note that the report recommends that DFP take the lead responsibility for monitoring and reporting on the implementation of flexible working measures. However, it is widely acknowledged that some areas of work, particularly front-line jobs, are not suitable for flexible working arrangements. That point was made by Mr Girvan in his contribution, and it was recognised by the Committee, which reported that a one-size-fits-all approach was not appropriate and that the focus should be on selecting the appropriate working options and technologies to meet business needs. <BR /> <BR />I was interested to learn, in researching this, that a number of private sector companies, most notably Yahoo, have moved in the opposite direction.”
“<BR /> <BR />The examples that I have just given show that the technology and security controls are already in place in the Civil Service to support flexible working. In addition, the new performance management system supports the principle of flexible working, as staff productivity and performance are measured by outputs and objectives that should not be influenced by where a person is located. However, in all the flexible working options that I have noted, there is a guiding and overriding principle that cannot be ignored, which is that flexible working solutions should only be implemented where there is no adverse impact on the service provided to the public or on the overall efficiency of the Department concerned.”
“<BR /> <BR />The report expresses the view that Internet-based conferencing should be the preferred method for civil servants participating in meetings that involve travel outside Northern Ireland. I would like to advise that Internet-based web conferencing is already supported and has been available for some time in the Northern Ireland Civil Service using the WebEx product. We continue to improve the service, and plans are well advanced to introduce an internal web conferencing facility that will also have the capability to include people from outside the Northern Ireland Civil Service. I believe that that approach will help address any security concerns in relation to the current product and will result in a more extensive use of the facility.”