Basil McCrea
Lagan Valley · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I carried on that work on the all-party group on science and technology, and, when I am gone from this place, I hope that those who are still here will take up the challenge of science and technology, because that is where the jobs are and that is where the future is.”
“I rise for the last time to address the Assembly. I thank the people of Lagan Valley for the privilege of representing them over the past nine years. It seems like only yesterday that I first got here, awestruck by the names on the doors of people that I had seen only on television, and, yet, here we are.”
“— what matters is to have the courage to go on. I will go on. I will leave this place with my head high, with my colours flying, with my dignity intact and with all conviction about what is good for Northern Ireland. In conclusion, two roads diverged in the woods, and I took the road less travelled. That has made all the difference.”
“Despite the heckling from the man in front of me, I shall ask a question of the Minister in two parts. First, would the Minister care to tell us what was his personal favourite of the many events at the Northern Ireland Science Festival?”
“I am grateful to the Member for the explanation, and I have no doubt that her efforts to draft the amendment were well-intentioned. Maybe she can help me on this, if it has come up in the discussions.”
“Actually, when I read it, I understood it to be the other way round. However, I am happy that it is a more general stance and is not limited to single acts. <BR /> <BR />As regards amendment No 2, I approached the concept in a sympathetic manner, but I am not convinced that we can properly define an imbalance of power.”
The complete record
Every one of 747 lines we hold for Basil McCrea, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 11 of 15.
“The Minister, in his original answer, mentioned the reduction in grass cutting to those areas where it is strictly necessary. Will he take the opportunity to do something positive for bees and other things that enhance our environment by trying to reduce the amount of grass cutting that is actually done and moving it further back in the season because, as he will know, the bee population is under severe pressure and needs to have as many flowering plants as possible in verges?”
“It is not possible for us to do anything through legislation on matters that are not devolved, but I suspect that it would be a good thing if the parties with MPs were to use their good offices to try to deal with the matter. <BR /> <BR />I would be interested to hear what the Minister has to say about how we provide support to people struggling with an addiction to dangerous substances. Frankly, whether they are legal or not is irrelevant; the fact is that those things do a lot of harm. It is part of the fabric of our society. It is not the right way forward for young people, but telling them that it is not the right way forward is not going to change anything. We need creative, effective intervention that will explain to our people, "These are the risks that you are facing". On that, Mr Deputy Speaker, I conclude my remarks.”
“Even now, there is discussion about whether there are health benefits from cannabis, what exactly the effective ingredients in it are and whether it is something that we should be looking at with regard to medicinal use. The whole issue is about understanding exactly what the active ingredients are. I am really sorry for the families of Adam Owens and Ana Hick, who saw the tragic loss of their children. We, as legislators, maybe need to think about how we engage in a proper debate about the drugs culture. It is one of the more significant issues affecting our society. <BR /> <BR />It is not really necessary for me to prolong the debate. Speaking at this stage in the Chamber, much of what has to be said has been said, but it is perhaps worth saying that we need to do something and not just implore others to do something.”
“It is not quite the same, but it is pretty close: the sudden death of a 19-year-old who took some form of ecstasy that had been adulterated with poison. The real problem was that, although they got medics to her, they were not able to do anything. The doctor said — this is the issue with legal highs as well — that the problem is that there is such a cocktail of drugs in the tablets now that nobody really knows exactly what is in them. There is simply no way to provide the appropriate medical attention. <BR /> <BR />All that leads me to conclude that the issue of drug culture in our society is perhaps one that we have to deal with.”
“Can you help raise this concern?" <BR /> <BR />I wanted to talk today to not just implore somebody to do something but to say that there is a real issue: people who know that they have a problem and are seeking help are not able to get it. I am struck by the description of Adam. He was 17, and he died in Newtownards. He had been to a house party with friends. He had known that he had a problem for about three years. He kept saying that he was going to turn his life around. Perhaps part of our attention should be placed on how we give advice and support to people rather than just saying, "These are illegal". <BR /> <BR />I was also struck last night; I came across a really tragic situation in Dublin.”
“I wrote to the Minister of Justice last month about the issue of legal highs. As has been mentioned in the debate, the response was that it is not a devolved matter. However, he said that a number of successful strategies are being used by the health service and the local councils, including using consumer legislation, to deal with the matter. <BR /> <BR />The reason why I wrote to the Minister of Justice, and the reason why I am speaking today, is that I was contacted online by a lady called Grainne Woods, who mentioned to me the tragic death of Adam Owens. She said, "Basil, something urgently needs to be done to protect our young people from legal highs. This lad pleaded for help.”
“May I offer the Minister my commiserations or congratulations, depending on which is appropriate? The Department of Culture, Arts and Leisure has a significant number of arm's-length bodies. Many of those bodies are telling us that they do not yet know how the voluntary exit scheme will affect them, or if it will be available to them, and that that makes it very difficult to budget. When will such information be available?”
“I commend the Minister for being able to follow my train of thought. There is a climate change issue. The science is absolutely unforgiving. We have a really serious problem throughout the world, and it is something that Northern Ireland needs to realise it should not reject its responsibilities on. I am interested to hear from the Minister: what specifically can we introduce in Northern Ireland that will play our part in tackling climate change?”
“Just following on from that point, will the Minister give us an assessment of the effectiveness of the roll-out of the 3G/4G initiative and tell us whether, when it is fully deployed, it will be able to deal with the rural black spots in broadband provision?”
“There is a growing consensus that the constraints placed on the Greek Government by the European Brussels group are too tight and that there will have to be some form of loosening, because it is not possible to introduce the cuts in pensions and social welfare in Greece and see a democracy survive. If there is a loosening of the terms offered to Greece, what steps will the deputy First Minister take to make that argument for Ireland, Northern Ireland, and the rest of the United Kingdom to find a way of taking the worst edges off austerity programmes?”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker, under Standing Order 17. I understand that this is a cross-community debate and that the vote will be taken on that basis. I respectfully draw your attention to the fact that only one unionist spoke in favour of the motion and quite a few spoke against it. I would have preferred to have had the opportunity to add to the balance of the debate.”
“We cannot get to a situation in which it does not matter what we say or speak on because a petition of concern will be tabled. As a result, this place will not change. <BR /> <BR />The issue that many people find strange is that the Assembly has little power on matters. Most issues — most difficult issues — are resolved at Executive level or behind closed doors. That is not what democracy is based on. We should be having the debate and come out and say what we want to see done better. <BR /> <BR />On Mrs Kelly's point, the disappointment that the people of our country feel is palpable. We need to do better, so we ought to have an official review. The AERC is the Committee that should be doing that. It is failing in its job, and collectively we need to do better.”
“Sorry. I beg your pardon. <BR /> <BR />The key question that I want to ask is this: why can we not have some proper debate? I heard Mr Campbell say that we should reduce the number of MLAs. Fair enough, let us reduce the number of MLAs, but maybe we should look at changing the boundaries. Why do we have to follow the 18 parliamentary constituencies? That is the debate, and I am happy that some discussion may happen on that. We certainly need to get a more effective form of government. <BR /> <BR />People will know that I have long-held reservations about petitions of concern. We get into situations from time to time when both the main parties have said, "Do you know what? We really cannot see this passed". I want to see a more effective mechanism, whether it be some form of weighted mechanism, some sort of review or something else.”
“We have far more important things to deal with, whether they be youth unemployment, trying to get the economy going or trying to sort out our stance on gay marriage or any of the other issues that affect us. Let us have proper debate. But, do you know what? We cannot. Everything comes back to whether we will have Marty as First Minister or whether we will ensure that he is not. <BR /> <BR />Mr Principal Deputy Speaker, the clock is not working, so I do not know where I am with time.”
“If we do not deal with that, we will not get people buying in to a political process, a peace process or any other process.”
“I am happy to develop that point. That is what was promised in 1998. We were going to try to put the past behind us and move forward. We were going to try to work our way through things. The history of this place has proven that it has not been possible to do that. Of course, people go through a few sham fights; they pretend that they are having disagreements, and then they go off and talk to their core electorate. Meanwhile, nothing, nothing, nothing gets done. This Committee will not produce any reports because this Committee cannot produce any reports. <BR /> <BR />At the risk of stating the obvious, we are getting to a stage where you find that the contempt in which the political process is held in this part of the world is palpable when you talk to people on the street.”
“That is what pervades every single political thought in this place and in this country; it does not matter what your policies are on anything. It all comes down to this: "Let's keep the Shinners out" or "Let's try and get the Shinners in". All other policy debates are reduced to nothing. <BR /> <BR />I checked to see what this Committee does, and I noticed that paragraph 12 on page 4 says that it agreed to write to all the independents and the party leaders on 27 January —”
“I am trying to work out whether it is better to be wrong or gullible. I am grateful for the clarification, because the challenge I put out then, and the challenge I put out now, is this: give me an alternative. Give me something else that you can do that will get agreement. What the Member just outlined is that we have a stalemate. We cannot get any form of agreement; there will be no change. The reason why this is a complete waste of time is because there is no agreement. <BR /> <BR />I can accept some of the arguments that the honourable Member put forward about what he would like to see achieved, but the truth of the matter is that he will not see them achieved. The most serious issue that we have had — I think it is at paragraph 102 — is what to call the First Minister and deputy First Minister.”
“Mr Allister referred to some people as "gullible". I may be one of those gullible people, because I voted yes for the Good Friday Agreement, and I would vote yes again for the Good Friday Agreement.”
“We have talked quite a lot about cuts, but there is sometimes a view that we are isolated from those cuts. Does the Commission feel that Members will take their fair share of the pain in that regard?”
“Minister, in England, the public health outcomes framework provides useful indicators that local areas can be benchmarked against. One indicator is especially relevant to adult sexual health, and that is the proportion of people presenting with HIV at a late stage of infection. What is the Minister's view of the framework? Is it relevant to Northern Ireland? If so, does he accept that the number of consultants in our GUM clinics ought to rise from four to 20 to meet the demand?”
“I am making the not unreasonable point of asking whether that could be taken into consideration when we look at the Bill. <BR /> <BR />Having made my point, I will leave it at that. I look forward to further engagement with the process as the Bill proceeds through the next stage.”
“The specific point that I was going to get to is that I would like there to be consideration in the Bill of a process whereby special educational needs statements granted in full in other parts of the United Kingdom are treated as temporary for the provision of services when that person comes to Northern Ireland. You could extend that to proper, bona fide statements of educational need from other jurisdictions in the European Union. <BR /> <BR />I did not mean to antagonise the Minister; I was only trying to set it out that there is a case for that. I was merely making the point that I have a letter from the Minister in one hand saying, "This is for the library board", and in the other a letter saying, "This is down to legislation, and we are now considering how we might change legislation to streamline processes".”
“Kent County Council had given him a SEN statement and had provided all the details with regular updates. However, when he tried to get a place in the primary school in Dromore, despite it being very keen to take him, those existing comprehensive assessments were not deemed satisfactory. I had two letters, one from the Minister saying, "This is all very well, but this is for —”
“among other things. <BR /> <BR />The particular case that I want to bring to the Minister's attention, and that of those who will consider the Bill in Committee, is that of Joshua Awujoola from Dromore. Joshua's parents moved to Northern Ireland in late 2014. He is on the autistic spectrum, and, of course, he had a detailed statement from his previous place of residence in the Kent County Council area.”
“I hope not to detain the House for too long. I rise for a specific reason, which is to deal with an issue that has arisen in my constituency to do with a young man who came from Kent. I will, by way of example, dwell on the details. <BR /> <BR />I apologise to the Minister for not catching his opening remarks, but I do have the benefit of the Official Report. I was taken by the fact that he highlighted the point that the reasons for the review were:”
“Does the Minister accept that there is a danger, in having a number of independent reviews, that one organisation may blame the other and we will not get to the bottom of it? Does he accept that the time has now come for him and his Department to have an overarching investigation into that sorry state of affairs, or would he prefer to see trial by media, as, apparently, we are going to see tonight on 'Spotlight'?”
“His biggest contribution was behind the scenes, and people have talked about him working tirelessly in the background. It is not easy to hold together the unionist community or even the Ulster Unionist Party. His great talent was that he was able to bring all strands of unionism together in such a way that, frankly, you were sometimes not quite sure how he did it, but he did it indeed. That is a great tribute. We are in a different place now. I offer my condolences to his family and, in his memory, offer thanks for his service to Northern Ireland.”
“I knew him of course, but, to me, he was always Jim Molyneaux. The last time I spoke to him was at Westminster, where he courteously took the time to talk to me. It was a few years ago. The thing about Jim was that he always had time for people, no matter what you thought or where you were coming from, and, in my experience in the constituency, I do not think I ever heard anybody say anything bad about him. He was always our Jim and a great man. People talked about his majority. It was indeed a wonderful thing to behold. <BR /> <BR />It is sad when people must pass away, particularly people of his generation. Being involved in the war gave you a certain base for your thinking about the future. We are at the stage now where those who were actively involved have passed away.”
“Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. Under Standing Order 17(5), if I may —”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker, under Standing Order 17(4). Will you inform the House what consultation you had with the Business Committee in order to establish the total time to be allocated to the debate? Having written to you and having much to contribute to the debate, I am extremely disappointed that I am the only Member not to be allowed to speak.”
“We have talked for almost an hour, and only just now did we get to the nub of the issue. I congratulate the Minister on putting forward a formidable defence of his decision, but only towards the end are we getting to why he feels that that is necessary. I may have misunderstood the issue, but I would like to take this opportunity to understand. There is capacity in the existing arrangements in Great Britain, but there is no capacity as yet in Dublin. For what reason are we deciding to move from existing capacity to Dublin? I accept the medical evidence about Northern Ireland, or Belfast, being too small, but I am not sure why we need to make the change. Perhaps he will explain that to me. <BR /> <BR />He paid tribute to the parents and charities involved. Are they satisfied, having had the consultation, with the decision he has made?”
“I draw the deputy First Minister's attention to the part of the statement that deals with the Horizon 2020 programme. Some 70% of all funds that were drawn down in Northern Ireland under FP7, the predecessor to Horizon 2020, were drawn down by the two universities. Did science play any part in the discussions on the new sectoral opportunities? <BR /> <BR />We have had some discussions with the Royal Irish Academy, and it has invited scientists from the North to visit it in the South. Can he use his office or the North/South Ministerial Council to support such interaction, North and South?”
“I wish to support the statement that the Minister has just made and draw to his attention the opinion of Dr Martin Brown, who runs Science and Technology Experts in Primary Schools (STEPS). We need to find some way of getting modest funding to encourage industry to go into primary schools. I know that, in these financial times, things are difficult, but we need to encourage people to go and work in primary schools.”
“We have got to push our really good people. I have to say to Members that it is all very well trotting out the fine words, having the speech and doing all those things, but I wish that a few more of you could find your way to joining the excellent APG on science and technology, getting involved in the science debate and going along to all these great things. Science is the future, but actions speak louder than words.”
“<BR /> <BR />It is interesting that Roisin, being a female engineer, also said that she did not think that we should have a go at girls specifically as part of the gender balance but we should point it out to them that they have an unfair advantage in the jobs market. People are desperate to get women into science, IT and all those areas. <BR /> <BR />There is an issue with Sentinus that I want to deal with. I hope that the Minister will tell us that a bit more funding on that is coming through. It is an excellent exercise. I also wonder how many Members went down to the BT Young Scientists and Technology Exhibition. I listened to Jennifer McKinley, who is a senior lecturer in the school of geography, archaeology and palaeocology. What has that got to do with anything? She is a world expert in forensic science, that is what.”
“<BR /> <BR />I got a very nice email from Roisin Crawford, whom Members from the north-west will know as the person who runs STEM Aware. She mentioned the Northern Ireland primary school curriculum, saying that little science is required with even less practised. She also says that some older teachers practise, but others never did science. I think that the Minister has to take it on board that science has been hit by the fact that the unofficial 11-plus tests do not deal with science. If it is not measured, it does not get taught, so there is a problem coming through in the next three or four years.”
“By 2020, which is only five years away, 20 billion devices will be connected to the Internet. Loads of other things were talked about. How many people went to see the Bodyworks exhibition, which was brought by SmithKline Beecham of Glasgow? How many people went to see the laser demonstration for the International Year of Light when it was at the museum? Basically, there is a lot of talk but not much action. How many people have been to CERN, built by a Northern Ireland man, to see what it is about? How many people have been to the Science Museum in London? How many people have listened to NASA? How many people know that 1·46 million people in the UK are employed in IT and that 1·2 billion tech jobs have not been filled worldwide? Those issues show why we must get more people involved.”
“<BR /> <BR />I know that Members here have talked about the great Northern Ireland Science Festival. It was very successful, with 10,000 predicted to go but 30,000 actually turning up at the 11-day event, which had over 100 events. However, I wonder how many of the Members here present went to any of those. How many of you went to hear about John Stewart Bell? A few accolades were given here, but I am sure that my Ulster Unionist colleagues would be delighted to know that he was a cousin of Billy Bell, a former MLA from my constituency, and that his entire family was there. I am sure that that is something that they would like to make something of. <BR /> <BR />I was also surprised not to see many Members — none, apart from the Minister — at the Turing lecture. Over 700 people turned out, which was a record. It was fantastic.”
“I worry a bit about this debate. I realise that we are not speaking to a packed House, but I heard Mr Lunn, Mr Hazzard and a few other people say, "Do you know what? Things are not so bad. They are going OK". Actually, I am not so sure that they are. Of course, we can talk about the ETI report that has come out, which says that of our primary schools, just over half — 54% — felt capable of teaching the science strand, but it goes further than that. I do not know whether Members were listening to the radio on Sunday, but, on 'Inside Business', Des Speed of PathXL stated that the shortage of software skills had become something of a crisis and that we need joined-up government to sort that shortage out. Peter Fitzgerald of Randox said that they are desperate for more scientists and engineers.”
“With regard to age discrimination, does the Minister consider that the use of voluntary redundancy and vacancy control may discriminate against younger people? When she is considering legislation in future, will she undertake to address the imbalance between ages old and ages young? That is a serious issue for our society.”
“We should mention John Stewart Bell. We are just after naming a crescent after him. He came from Tates Avenue, and he was nominated for the Nobel prize in physics. He proved Einstein wrong. Unfortunately, he died before he could be given the prize.”
“I ask the First Minister about silos and finances. As the First Minister will be aware, in-year monitoring rounds are important for the efficient management of government, but many of the surrenders of funds are complicated by historical factors. Some can be transferred within a Department; others must go back to the centre. When we amalgamate certain Departments, will he give an undertaking that we will ensure that we can do interdepartmental funding without having to return funds to the centre?”
“Instead, I say to you that there is a necessity to do something, but you will have to find a way of doing something similar to the Welfare Reform Bill, where you need a five-party coalition that genuinely works together and moves forward. It is on that basis that I am supporting the Budget.”
“I alone was the person who, when we considered tuition fees, asked whether we were sure that we had got that right. When I heard the debate on the Magee campus, I looked at all that and said that we are going to put more places into Magee. Do you want people to increase their debt, to go and get an education and then have no jobs to go to? You cannot do it in isolation. I note, just for the record, that in the United Kingdom, they are now saying that 49% of people will default on their tuition fees — a sum of £2 billion — yet our universities and colleges are falling behind. <BR /> <BR />I am in the enviable, easy position of being on my own here. I can stand up and say what I feel. I can point out to people where they are going wrong and then sit down or leave the Chamber, but I choose not to do that.”
“Frankly, some of the points on which I agreed with Mr McNarry were on where people stand and take a political punt on something; when they start to say, "This is for the election"; when they start trying to tell the people that black is white and that you can magic money out of something. You cannot do that. We have to find a way of investing properly and, in this case, although I have already said to people that I respect their mandate, when people start talking rubbish, others have to stand up and challenge them. <BR /> <BR />The conclusion to all this is that I do not want to see the meaningless double-talk that Mr McNarry referred to. I want to see us tackle the real challenges facing our society. I do understand that there are some tough calls.”
“I believe that there are ways that we can make certain things pay in our society. I still do not understand why the public purse should pay for every single facility. I raised in the House the fact that we want to invest in Waterways Ireland, yet we do not put a tax on cruisers. I look at how we might raise things to invest further and how we could do something to increase the economic opportunity. It should not be solely down to the public purse. The public purse should prime the pump, but the private sector should be allowed to kick in at some stage. I think that is a rational argument, not some sort of political stance to take. <BR /> <BR />When we look at how we might go forward, we need some form of shared vision.”
“They have been put in the position of being asked, "Are you the party of raising tax? Is this what you're all about?"”
“We will see further fiscal tightening from Westminster and see an ageing population putting more and more pressure on our health system. <BR /> <BR />I come to a few points that I want to close on. The Alliance Party has been castigated because its Members dared to come forward with a few brave statements.”
“He said that he could not be on top of every issue, that he had to take a broader view and that other Ministers had to look after their portfolio. We are making a mistake if, because of the pressure on our health budget, we have to cut everything else. I look at the contributions that Sport NI, NI Screen, National Museums, the Arts Council and many of the arm's-length bodies in DCAL make. They support the efforts of other Ministers and Departments. I look at the contribution that they might make to tourism, health and education. I know that it is only £100 million and that we are taking only £10 million off it, but the impact of those cuts are drastic. They come about because we are under pressure with our health budget. We have to find a different way of looking at this issue. This will not go away; it will get worse.”