Basil McCrea
Lagan Valley · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I carried on that work on the all-party group on science and technology, and, when I am gone from this place, I hope that those who are still here will take up the challenge of science and technology, because that is where the jobs are and that is where the future is.”
“I rise for the last time to address the Assembly. I thank the people of Lagan Valley for the privilege of representing them over the past nine years. It seems like only yesterday that I first got here, awestruck by the names on the doors of people that I had seen only on television, and, yet, here we are.”
“— what matters is to have the courage to go on. I will go on. I will leave this place with my head high, with my colours flying, with my dignity intact and with all conviction about what is good for Northern Ireland. In conclusion, two roads diverged in the woods, and I took the road less travelled. That has made all the difference.”
“Despite the heckling from the man in front of me, I shall ask a question of the Minister in two parts. First, would the Minister care to tell us what was his personal favourite of the many events at the Northern Ireland Science Festival?”
“I am grateful to the Member for the explanation, and I have no doubt that her efforts to draft the amendment were well-intentioned. Maybe she can help me on this, if it has come up in the discussions.”
“Actually, when I read it, I understood it to be the other way round. However, I am happy that it is a more general stance and is not limited to single acts. <BR /> <BR />As regards amendment No 2, I approached the concept in a sympathetic manner, but I am not convinced that we can properly define an imbalance of power.”
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“There may well be time yet, but it is testament to the Speaker's good humour that he would occasionally have a word with me and explain that we might do things in a different way. Of course, you would take that guidance and try to work with him for the benefit of the entire Assembly. For that, I am really grateful. <BR /> <BR />It is a difficult job, and we want to try to give more representation to those who are not from the main parties. Willie did a very good job in very difficult circumstances. I wish him all the best, a speedy return to health and, of course, congratulations on his elevation to the House of Lords.”
“<BR /> <BR />I close by saying that there are a number of us who end up speaking last. It is maybe something about those of us who speak last that, from time to time, we have been in what is known as "the naughty corner", and the Speaker has had occasion to remonstrate with all of us. I was struck by Mr McNarry saying that he had been shown the red card. That is something that I never actually achieved myself.”
“It was something that, I thought, would be quite a reasonable thing to do, only to discover that there was something about Parliament Buildings, fireworks and some guy called Guy Fawkes that meant that such a thing was not really possible, never mind legal. The Speaker himself intervened to help to smooth out those issues, get things sorted out, and a good time was had by all. It was a testament to him; it was typical of the man that he would take such an interest. <BR /> <BR />I also think that part of his contribution, which has been mentioned by others, is that he did a really excellent job in the city of Derry or Londonderry, depending on what you want to call it. He helped to engender things for the Apprentice Boys and to get cultural recognition for all sides. It is a testament to him as a politician that he was able to do that.”
“I share with Willie a background as a Donegal Protestant. His family and mine came from Manorcunningham, and we occasionally crossed on those paths. <BR /> <BR />However, my real memory of him comes more from his open-door policy to this place, which has been touched on by a number of Members. However, I am not really sure that people realise what a profound change it was to make this Building open to the public and to invite in people from all quarters — all parts of Northern Ireland — to come and see the Building for themselves. As a newly elected MLA, I just took that more or less for granted and embraced, with some passion, his wish to bring more people into the Buildings. <BR /> <BR />I remember that one of the first things that I tried to do was to have a gathering for young people that would end up with a fireworks display.”
“I am interested in his point about cross-border work. The GT Energy report states that, now that planning permission has been granted in south Dublin, the only thing that they are waiting for is for RECIT, which is their equivalent of investment in renewables, to give them some sort of incentive. Given that the Member's party has representation, not only in south Dublin but in the Dáil, what has he done to make sure that the all-Ireland aspect of this is furthered? It appears to me that they are ahead of us and not behind us.”
“Minister, will you clarify whether there is an issue with the ownership of the land when you go below 300 metres? Is that the issue that needs to be addressed?”
“Trust the science, and, please, let us do something together.”
“People who said no, no, no are now saying yes. For goodness' sake, we have to do something.”
“The reason why I will not be so hard is that I would like people to start saying yes for a change. That is what got the anger in all of this.”
“Southampton has a geothermal system operating, but one of the issues that arises is that it is only part of the solution. Even there, it produces only 17% of the heating input to the district heating system, so you need to have some integrated form of dealing with the issue. The big thing that I really want to say is —”
“I am not sure that you are allowed to redirect your questions through me to other people. If you feel that you are in the Chair, fair enough. There is a touch of debating hydrofracking there, I think, where we have gone down and gone across. <BR /> <BR />The information that I see here is on the website. Take this document and have a look at GT Energy to see what it has said about drilling in Newcastle. I got excited for a while, because I thought that it was Newcastle, County Down, but it turned out to be Newcastle, County Dublin. I read on, and I looked at what it said. There is a full seismic analysis, and full planning permission has been granted. The information is all there for the Member to have a look at. <BR /> <BR />Other places have tried this.”
“The real issue in all these matters is that, if you do not have sound geological data, you should not proceed. However, where you have it, you can do it safely. That is the real problem with the whole argument. People expound on emotion and do not look at the facts. They do not come down and see what the science says. Of course, if it is not safe, you do not do it, but, where you have scientific evidence that it is safe — as it apparently is in the South Dublin with its Sinn Féin mayor — you should give full planning permission and get on with it. I come to this issue —”
“That will put pressure on the systems. He then said:”
“I am tempted to respond with "Will the Member give way?", because that was something of a speech. Let me quote something from the body of evidence in the research paper. This was said by a representative of the company that are going to do it. He said that there are two types:”
“<BR /> <BR />I cannot understand why we have the hypocrisy in this place to say, "We oppose fracking because we don't know what it might do" and then say, "But geothermal might be OK".”
“I do not think I will, because the Member was not quite so generous when I wanted to come in earlier. I ask him to get his facts right. I will address this to Mr Agnew as well, because I am a chemical engineer, and I chair the all-party group on science and technology. We have had quite a few discussions on this issue, including discussions with experts who came from across the water to talk to us about the issue. It does not seem possible to me to bore three or four kilometres down into the ground without cutting across aquifers or other fault lines, which may release methane or radon, particularly if you are in the geological hotspots driven by granite. You are going to do exactly the same thing that you were going to do with fracking.”
“It has had an entire seismic report done of the Dublin/Newcastle basin to see whether it can go through and to see if it is possible. Full planning permission was granted in January 2011, and, since then, there has been nothing.”
“Mr Deputy Speaker, rarely have I heard such twaddle or such uneducated, uninformed, misinformed information from these Benches. You sit and say, "This is not fracking" or "This is fracking by another name". I invite you to read a book that you will find in the Library. It is by one Daithí McKay. I am not sure if it is the same Daithí McKay, but he was a chief scientific officer. The book is 'Sustainable Energy — Without the Hot Air'. <BR /> <BR />One thing that I want to understand is what Fintan Warfield has to say about it all. Come on. What does Fintan Warfield have to say? I cannot ask him, because I do not know the Sinn Féin mayor of South Dublin County Council personally, but maybe Members here do, because that council has given full planning permission for all of this.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I did not quite hear his point, and he may wish to reiterate it, about fracking and the fact that when you put the water down you have to frack the rock. Does it not sound very like fracking to you?”
“Does the Minister think it appropriate that luxury boats should be able to travel without paying a fee when, for example, a car has car tax? Given the lack of capital investment in the waterways, that might be an appropriate way in which to raise the necessary revenue to spend on the infrastructure.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Savages made a wonderful contribution to our society. George made a great contribution to the Assembly. When you get to the end of your life, all that you can really do is to look back and have others say, "He did well". <BR /> <BR />George Savage, a gentleman and a friend, will be sadly missed. I offer my condolences to his family.”
“I remember with fondness that he did get his own way through having a particular way of doing things. Even when we had the Belfast Agreement coming up, he told me how he had influence with people who might not have been in the mainstream. He said that he thought that one of the big contributions that he had made was that he was able to talk to people whom others would not talk to. <BR /> <BR />On such occasions, I am mindful of the family. Those of you who know the family well will know that Joy is facing not just one but two challenges. It is my great hope that things improve with Kyle, who is not particularly well. Joy is one of those amazing women. You talk about great men, but behind every great man there is arguably an even greater woman, and Joy is certainly that.”
“George was a friend of mine. I look back on our interactions with much fondness. There was always a sense of humour with George when you were speaking to him. You sometimes had to wait a little while to discover exactly what he was going to tell you, but there was always the great finger that was raised, which indicated that he was about to say something. I was talking to Joy about it. She said that people sometimes asked how he got that finger. Apparently, a tractor managed to run over it, and, George being George, he just put a bandage on it and carried on. That was the mark of the man. He was very self-effacing, did what had to be done and got on with things. <BR /> <BR />People here have tended to talk about him being a gentleman and somehow non-controversial.”
“Rather than have these meaningless debates, let us see real, strategic vision; let us see leadership for Northern Ireland; let us see what we can do. I would really like to see the Department of Culture, Arts and Leisure step up to the mark, because Northern Ireland needs it.”
“These are issues that we ought to be able to deal with. <BR /> <BR />The proposer of the motion mentioned wider social objectives linked to public health and obesity in his opening remarks, and those are addressed in Sport Matters. However, sport is not yet seen as an investment; it is seen as a luxury. We have to realise that sport should be something that we invest in because we want to achieve other objectives. <BR /> <BR />Others touched on the benefit of sport and what it can do. Just look at the passion that we saw when we watched the Ryder Cup, or when Ulster plays rugby, or when I watched the team triathlon come in sixth at Glasgow. There is a breakdown in our society; there is a growth in the importance of "me". Sport should be able to counter that, but sport is not being supported.”
“I think that we need some strategic leadership here, and I hope that the Minister will be able to provide some clarity on that. I also hope that she will tell us how she will tackle one of the other weaknesses brought forward:”
“These are issues that DCAL ought to be taking on board. I am really interested to see what support the Minister can gather around the Executive table, because I realise that she can only deal with what she is given. We need to match our rhetoric with financial support. <BR /> <BR />I mentioned some other issues that I think that we need to address in this debate:”
“There are some suggestions for improvement in this document:”
“That is the elephant in the room: we have no strategic vision for sport in this land. We have all-Ireland bodies, UK bodies, different bodies, but there is no great vision to take us forward. All we get is empty rhetoric where people try to cling on to the coat-tails of people who succeed in sport, largely because of their own ability.”
“is also a problem. One of the key issues that we could deal with is, I think, the point that Mr Humphrey made — he certainly made it in Committee. It says in the document in front of us here — our strategic approach:”
“That is a failure in our structural approach. Our:”
“What is the Minister of Culture, Arts and Leisure going to do about that, as she has been exhorted to do by her party colleagues? <BR /> <BR />The document continues:”
“I have to say that I think that we are deluding ourselves. I have listened to the rhetoric in the Chamber and the platitudes about how well we did. You really have to say to yourself that we fund 42 sports — 28 elite sports — and if you were to take boxing out of our medal total, you would have precious little return for that. <BR /> <BR />I commend the proposer of the motion for tabling it. I was quite taken, as I said in Committee, by what Mr Humphrey had to say. There are a number of issues that we have not addressed. Some really important issues have not been taken on board. I refer to the document that is known as SPLiSS. Some issues come out here when we talk about pillar one, finance:”
“The Minister said that one of the strategic aims is to draw down further funds from Europe. In light of the fact that the first tranche has been announced for science, has agriculture, through AFBI or any other institution, been successful in applying for Horizon 2020 funding and achieved a drawdown?”
“I am interested in the Member's argument about parity and where we make cuts. How does he feel we should address the issue of super-parity? There are areas where we do better than other areas of the United Kingdom, and, surely, we might have to consider reducing those areas, just to bring us back to parity.”
“The Minister may be aware that the Committee for Culture, Arts and Leisure recently visited the Andrew Lloyd Webber school of performing arts in Chiswick, where it was informed that the school is the premier location for such activities in the whole of the United Kingdom. Does the Minister accept that, when a citizen of Northern Ireland wishes to attend such a premier institution, it is a little unfortunate that he does not get the support that he would get if he lived elsewhere in the United Kingdom? Will the Minister undertake to look at that case in exception?”
“<BR /> <BR />It is one thing to have great oratorial skills and the great ability to get people to follow you; it is a different thing to get them to follow you in the right direction. <BR /> <BR />I will conclude on this message by saying that, yes, no one can say other than that Ian Paisley dominated politics in Northern Ireland for 40 years or longer. Of course he did, and he will have a legacy, but I hope that that legacy is a Northern Ireland that is at peace with itself and is able to build a future and to show that it is OK to make friends with people who you once thought were your enemy. I do not agree with some of the assertions that are put forward in the Chamber that that is a bad thing. The mark of a man — a big man — is the ability to change your mind, and we witness today the passing of a great man and a big man.”
“I only saw him towards the end of his career, when perhaps he was not the orator that he had been earlier, but he still retained that sense of humanity and that willingness to have a wry smile with you that smoothed the way on a lot of issues. <BR /> <BR />I acknowledge that his commitment to his family and his faith is unquestioned. I know some of his family quite well. They, too, are personalities, and they, too, will have a contribution to make in the coming years. They are a powerful legacy for this place. My message to them is that we are absolutely at one with their loss. It is the loss of someone very special. I hope that they use their talent to move forward and bring this place to a better place.”
“I will just say — I say it advisedly — that I liked Ian Paisley. I got talking to him towards the end of his political career. I did not always like Ian Paisley. I did not always agree with him. In fact, if I am really honest, almost all of my political awareness since I was growing up was against what Ian Paisley was talking about. I did not accept his argument, and I was disappointed in the way that he used his talent. But such was the wonder of the man that, when you got talking him and got that sense of humour and interaction, all things appeared to be possible. I perhaps did not know him politically in the way that everybody else here in this room will have done.”
“I offer my sincere condolences to Ian Paisley's family. As Mr Agnew acknowledged earlier, it is sometimes difficult with events like this to separate the personal loss from the political legacy.”
“<BR /> <BR />I hope that my two colleagues did not mind me intervening on what is really their subject, but I am interested to hear what Mr Kennedy has to say.”
“First, I think that Mr Givan said that there is to be a meeting next week with the Minister of the Environment and Mr Kennedy. That appears to be a more substantive way of moving forward and resolving the matter. <BR /> <BR />Secondly, how will we get some form of focus on Lisburn? Mr Craig's point was that it seems that everything is Belfast-centric. I probably live at the other side of the "missing link" that he talked about, but it would be really valuable to see it. We have some interest in doing what government does best, which is infrastructure improvements. That is what government can do to improve the standard of living for our citizens and, of course, the economy. It is a battle with the rest of the Executive that we have to win because we need more investment in road infrastructure.”
“Initially, I was not going to speak on this matter, although I read it with interest on the Order Paper. I acknowledge that Mr Craig, Mr Givan and the Minister are here, as are you, Mr Deputy Speaker, and I am speaking because I am interested to see whether the matter is addressed and in what way. The real issue, however, is the benefit of Adjournment debates: there are five of us in the Chamber, and it is a beautiful sunny evening, as people will acknowledge. The matter in front of us is important, and, of course, the Minister is here to try to address it. I just wanted to put that point on record. <BR /> <BR />I have only two issues of substance, because the substance of the debate was covered more than adequately by the two Members who spoke previously.”
“What is the Minister's assessment of the Agri-Food and Biosciences Institute's (AFBI) role in Going for Growth? What steps has she taken to address the projected 25% reduction in budget in the next three or four years?”
“Would the Minister care to expand on his earlier statement to Ms Lo that nobody would look forward to a "protracted legal battle"? Surely it is the entitlement of every citizen or organisation to take whatever legal steps they think are appropriate to look after their interests. Will he clarify whether he has received legal advice from the Attorney General? Finally, does he agree with the statement that he will go down in history as the man who stopped John Lewis once and for all?”
“Will the Minister explain the difference between relative and absolute child poverty? Will she comment on whether absolute child poverty has been improving in recent years?”
“I did not know Sam personally, but my family has deep roots in Fermanagh and would know his family very well and went to school with them. On that basis, I offer my condolences to his family. <BR /> <BR />Having listened to all the kind words being passed about Sam, perhaps the only thing worth adding is that it does make a difference if you make a difference. Mr Allister mentioned his own opposition to the Belfast Agreement, but it was one of Sam's finest stands, and I thank him and his family for the line he took on that occasion.”