John Dallat
East Londonderry · Social Democratic and Labour Party · Northern Ireland
“His and Donovan's contributions were invaluable. <BR /> <BR />I know that Alliance Members and others have spoken about Seamus Close, and I am conscious that his wife Deirdre is here today. Seamus Close was an amazing individual, and I had the pleasure of serving on the Public Accounts Committee with him.”
“<BR /> <BR />As you know, Mr Speaker — this will be of particular interest to you — Donovan was a Deputy Speaker, and he was a man of severe discipline. He did not suffer fools easily. On one occasion, there was a Member who was particularly troublesome in the morning. I reassure the existing parties that it was not one of their members.”
“I know other Members appreciated it equally. <BR /> <BR />I could not resume my seat without making reference to Reverend Robert Coulter — Bob, as he allowed me to call him. He was an incredible person who had a vision for the future of the Assembly that went far beyond simply winning the next election.”
“I was in the privileged position of being a member of Coleraine council for over 30 years, and, if I was asked to highlight one of the greatest events I experienced during that time, I would say that it was meeting Harry Gregg. I am not into sport big time, but I am into sporting people who have made a huge contribution to this world.”
“Donovan McClelland was a lecturer in the University of Ulster. Life could have been very comfortable for him, but he did not choose that. He contributed to the peace process that eventually became the Good Friday Agreement and, in doing that, he brought himself danger.”
“I welcome the Minister's responses so far. The average age of people in the northern region is very high. I am not sure whether the Minister knows how many passed away before adaptations were completed or shortly afterwards.”
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“It was an opportunity to see at first hand the grief of families who were absolutely broken by people who had killed their loved ones on the roads. <BR /> <BR />Today is one small step. As the day developed, it became clear to me that we are taking this seriously. It is a rare occasion when we can dispense with party labels, forget about the general election coming up and focus on something that might well allow the Assembly to be remembered for something positive. <BR /> <BR />Yes, there has to be enforcement, and I encourage people to research how the French Government tackled the problem. The number of people being killed on the roads there was absolutely disgusting, and the French Government were ruthless in what they did, but, at the end of the day, they dramatically decreased the number of deaths.”
“I do not want to repeat this, but, as I said earlier, millions of pounds and the energy of world leaders brought us to a situation of peace. Surely the fact that more people were killed on the roads during that awful period is an indication that we should be prepared to invest in road safety. We need to be mindful that, in recent times, fatal accidents have been on the increase again. Sometimes, I think that we get a false sense of belief that we are really improving. Dare I suggest that one of the reasons why people are not killed as often now is the vastly increased safety of the cars that we drive, which we tend to overlook? <BR /> <BR />Some time ago, I attended a cross-community service in the cathedral in Newry.”
“I have deliberately walked around them. You experience a sense of freedom in those areas. It was clear to me that motorists respected the wishes of the local community. The road signs, whatever their cost, were a symbol of agreement in the community that people did not want motorists speeding through their neighbourhoods. <BR /> <BR />The fact that we are discussing the Bill at its Second Stage will help to develop in people's minds a positive attitude towards what we are trying to achieve.”
“Mr Wilson, if you had come along on your motorbike, you might have been able to check it out. <BR /> <BR />The history of transport is fascinating. Young people really enjoy it, and I am glad that it is increasingly taught in schools. The story begins, of course, with the red flag Act, when someone walked in front of a steam engine and did not allow it to travel at more than 4 mph. We are talking about 20 mph, so perhaps we can consider that. <BR /> <BR />Any Act worth its salt will work when people are convinced that it is valuable and good. I know that 13 million people in the neighbouring island of Britain are already signed up to 20's Plenty-type schemes. The beauty about those schemes is that they are done by agreement. Edinburgh was mentioned. There are 20's Plenty schemes in Glasgow, where my daughter, Helena, lives.”
“<BR /> <BR />As a former teacher who has worked in Donegal and Kilrea, images are etched in my mind for life of young people who needlessly lost their lives because of speed and in circumstances very close to their homes. In one case in Donegal, two little brothers lost their lives together. It is a serious subject, and I know that everyone in the Assembly will take it seriously. <BR /> <BR />I totally forgive the Chairman of the Regional Development Committee, who accused me of speeding on the M3. I am not taking him off my Christmas list for that; I know that the comment was light-hearted, and I accept it as such. Nevertheless, I do deny it.”
“To my mind, the contributions to the debate in the afternoon have been a great deal more positive than those made earlier, and I am grateful for that. I single out Mr Tom Elliott, who said that, if there are to be amendments to the Bill, let them be done in a positive way. That is the right approach. He also mentioned attitudes. I know that he was not present when my colleague Alban Maginness spoke at length about attitudes. <BR /> <BR />Let me begin by thanking Pat Ramsey for putting in the time to bring forward the Bill. I know that, due to personal circumstances, it is very important to him. There are probably other Members who, due to their personal circumstances, know just how important the issue is.”
“I am really sorry to hear that the Minister has been in trouble with his dentist, and I hope that his mouth is getting better. <BR /> <BR />The Minister will be aware that 180,000 people a year fail to meet their appointments. That is matched only by the hospitals themselves, which cancel 180,000 appointments. Does the Minister agree that the practice at the Causeway Hospital in Coleraine, where text messages are sent the day before an appointment, is good exemplary material? Will he look at that and see how that can be rolled out to other institutions, which, clearly, are not on top of it?”
“Is the Member aware that more people were killed on the roads during the darkest days of the Troubles than through violence? Does it not seem a bit disappointing to him that we are hearing arguments about the cost of road signage that could be introduced over one year, two years or 10 years? Is he aware that the 20's Plenty for Us scheme is not just in Edinburgh but in Glasgow, where I spent some leisure time walking around and witnessing for myself how neighbourhoods had been returned to the people who live in them and how children, for the first time, had the right to go out and play in the street? Does the negativity that we are experiencing here not disappoint him a little?”
“Does the Minister agree that, in developing international relations, we should have in place a cohesive policy on international development? Can he tell me why, after so many years, the Assembly has yet to bring forward a policy on how we approach the Third World? I ask the question in the knowledge that Northern Ireland accepted millions of pounds from donor countries to rebuild our own society.”
“I feel the need to pay tribute to the people in colleges of further and higher education who have tackled the problem. I ask the Minister whether there is anything that we can learn from their endeavours and successes that could be used in the wider battle against homophobia.”
“I do not want to get caught in any controversy involving Mrs Windsor. Can the Minister tell us whether this money is about shared education projects rather than about shared education, which already exists in many schools? Those schools may not benefit from this bounty, whoever it comes from.”
“Does the Minister agree with me that Derry city is an example to the world of how different communities can share their culture? Does she accept that it is a model for the rest of Northern Ireland to emulate? Orangemen, Apprentice Boys, Hibernians — it does not matter who they are: they have this unique capacity to share their culture. In 2013, they showed the world how it could be done.”
“Hands up as someone from a rural area, where the highlight of my year was the coming of the circus to our town. Does the Minister agree that the circuses of Ireland — Duffy's, Fossett's and all the others — are about more than wild animals? Will she tell the House whether she has directly communicated with the wonderful people who have brought so much joy and so much happiness to children like me , when I was a child?”
“I sincerely hope that, at the end of the day, ratepayers will have something that they can be proud of and that will operate in the different towns and villages to the benefit of the people who live there, not just the people who use the car parks but the traders and businesspeople who depend on decent car parking as a way of wooing people into those towns and villages.”
“We have already heard that many ratepayers face increased charges as a result of historical facts. It is important that that does not happen. We saw car parks that are badly in need of upgrading. I suspect that there are also towns where past investment in car parks has been very poor. I was intrigued that one town with a multistorey car park, which I will not name, was complaining that it needs to upgrade it and that that would cost £1·25 million or something. I know that Coleraine would be very happy if it had a multistorey car park. It has been trying to get one for years and never quite managed it for all sorts of reasons. <BR /> <BR />There is an opportunity here for the super-councils, as they call themselves, to really make an impact and justify the enormous outlay on regurgitating the councils as they were.”
“<BR /> <BR />I hope that they do not get bogged down in traffic wardens' uniforms and things like that but will see this as a powerful tool to put life back into many of the towns and villages that have suffered in recent years from the onslaught of supermarkets and out-of-town shopping centres in the larger urban areas. I believe that our new councils will seize the opportunity. There are interesting models where this has been done in different parts of the world. For town centres that are full of empty spaces, dereliction and so on, adjusting or abolishing car parking charges or whatever could well be the magnet that brings people back to those places. <BR /> <BR />I do not want to be negative at all, but I want to endorse a fear that, in some cases, the transfer of the car parks could be an added burden on ratepayers.”
“I join others in paying tribute to the Clerks of the Committee who arranged the outside meetings and provided us with an opportunity to see and hear at first-hand what the challenges are. We have certainly heard some of the downside of it, but I want to focus on the opportunities. <BR /> <BR />If it is simply a transfer of car parks to local councils, the exercise will have failed, but, if it is seen as an opportunity for the new councils to focus on the regeneration of the towns and villages that they now have an increased responsibility for, it will work. Councils will need to have enough autonomy to influence how those car parks are operated. At the same time, they will need to retain the technology that allows users of a car park to use, for example, apps on their mobile phones.”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. Clearly, he demonstrates a sense of compassion for those people who, through no fault of their own, find themselves without a home. Will the Minister assure us that, in the future, voluntary organisations such as the Simon Community, St Vincent de Paul, the Salvation Army and others are central in helping to solve this terrible problem?”
“In the interests of equality and balance and given that there has been a lot of representation on the side of the community, may I be so bold as to ask about the rights of the Travelling community and how their needs are assessed? They have been travelling the roads of Ireland for, perhaps, hundreds of years, a lot longer than some of the people who complain about them.”
“Do not let yourselves down, for goodness' sake, by prolonging this nonsense.”
“I am sorry that Mr McCausland is trying to deny me the right of free speech and does not take my advice that he should not shout from a sedentary position, but that is just another slip-up. It is another dropping of the mask, so to speak. <BR /> <BR />In County Galway, an Irish school was established with 10 pupils. Today, there are 450 pupils at that school, with no word about it. Dáil Éireann was not turned upside down because of that initiative to give back to the people of the west of Ireland the language that they lost. <BR /> <BR />We have a long road to go. A few short years ago, I could not have been registered at birth as "Seán"; that is probably why I am called John. Even more recently, you could not have accents above my name; the electoral register did not allow it. So, we are making a little bit of progress.”
“<BR /> <BR />I have it from an old friend who, sadly, died recently — Father Kevin McKenna of Dungiven — that, when he was growing up a few miles from Dungiven, Irish was the first language. In his old age, he reminisced about that. Like me, he was not a man who was prone to any kind of extreme views. Surely, a democracy — a fledgling democracy that, by some miracle, was put together again here at Stormont — would at least recognise that the national language needs to be nurtured. You do not have to dwell in Dungiven for that.”
“Mr Speaker, the three minutes will be more than sufficient. <BR /> <BR />As I indicated in an intervention, it is with a heavy heart that I take part in the debate. Sixteen years ago, 71% of the people of Northern Ireland signed an agreement recognising that the Irish language had a special place in our lives and needed to be nurtured. What on earth are the unionists doing to their cause by coming up with a motion and an amendment today that portrays them as being even worse than the people who sat in this Chamber 50 years ago? How on earth are they going to convince people in the nationalist community — people like me, who have no hard-line politics of any kind — and the wider world that they really are capable of respecting civil rights and equality?”
“Does the Member agree that, if a motion like this appeared on the Order Paper of the Welsh Assembly or the Scottish assembly, there would be absolute outrage? Does the Member further agree that this Assembly will have matured when it stops using the Irish language as some kind of weapon for petty party advantage?”
“I thank the Minister for his comprehensive answer, which I accept as absolutely genuine. He may know that King John, in his day, had a triple lock on his chest of gold. Does the Minister not agree that, despite the best efforts, we really need to redouble our efforts if the Assembly is to have a fair wind and be free from paramilitaries and all their activities?”
“I thank the Minister for his comprehensive answer. He will be aware that there are roughly a quarter of a million people between 16 and 64 whose levels of literacy and numeracy are well below what they need to apply for a job, seek promotion or even educate their children. Minister, are you sure that we will not create another generation of children who will leave school not able to read or write?”
“There was historical imbalance. It does not matter whether it was 50 years or 800 years ago. Does the Member agree that, 16 years into the Good Friday Agreement, there is an urgent need to address that?”
“Mr Robinson will recall the outpouring of promises to the Driver and Vehicle Agency (DVA) workers in Coleraine when they found themselves beleaguered and alone. Can we assume that future promises will be more tangible than those promises were? The only Department that offered permanent jobs to any of the workers is run by my party.”
“Yes indeed. I hope that you use it usefully. <BR /> <BR />Is the Member aware that not a single potential inward investor visited the Limavady region in the last year? Does he accept that that is a failure by the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment to address the serious imbalance in the north-west?”
“Does the Member accept that, for five years, a Sinn Féin Minister had a golden opportunity to address the issues of a bypass at Dungiven, the ferry service at Magilligan that does not run and the money that was needed for the rail service that was not there? Does the Member agree with me that a golden opportunity was missed to at least begin to address the issues that he speaks so passionately about?”
“I am sure that many outside the House will listen carefully to the Minister's response, as they believe that these are core principles of the very foundations of the Assembly. What assurances can the Minister give us that the work of the Equality Commission will be ring-fenced and protected in the future and that the work of the Community Relations Council will not be diminished?”
“In other words, in a nutshell, can we at least have a discussion on a comprehensive plan for all the waterways that are under different controls at the moment?”
“Mr Speaker, in keeping with the other Members who already congratulated you, in case someone might make mischief, I need to put it on record that, earlier today, I too offered my warmest congratulations and full cooperation in ensuring that this place remains a model of democracy. <BR /> <BR />I am delighted — almost ecstatic — to see that paragraph 21 mentions the idea of promoting and marketing Foyle and Carlingford loughs and that that is now on the discussion sheet. Can I trawl that idea to new depths and propose that, at a future meeting, the Minister will perhaps suggest that we develop a comprehensive strategy involving not just Carlingford and Lough Foyle but maybe the River Bann, which, although flowing out into the same sea a few metres away, is controlled by Waterways Ireland?”
“Is the Minister seriously dismissing my question by claiming that bullying in the Prison Service is at such a low level? Can he explain why several hundred prison officers are off, suffering from anxiety? Many of them claim that it is not the prisoners who caused it.”
“Let us create a positive image of the Assembly to show that we actually care for people — not Protestants and Catholics but all the people, particularly those in the north-west, who have had a very raw deal over the years. Here is an opportunity to improve our image. Let us be serious about what we are paid for.”
“Let us turn the Glenshane pass into a pleasurable journey between our two cities and maybe even stop off at the Ponderosa for something to eat — I do not know, whatever people do. Let us get away from the image that travelling west is some kind of nightmare that you should not really undertake. <BR /> <BR />I do not, in any way, want to undermine the original proposal. Dungiven is the most polluted town in western Europe: that is a fact. The people, particularly those at the lower end of the town, need justice and some kind of relief from what has been happening to them. Let us rise above the narrow discussions we have had about curries, yogurts, Trojan Horses and all the other things.”
“The Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment continually tells us that she cannot influence where inward investors locate, but we all know — there is no issue — that if you have good transport infrastructure you are more likely to be successful. <BR /> <BR />I really feel that this is perhaps our last opportunity to register once and for all a special case for the north-west. I want the Minister to listen to my next point. When I spoke to a senior official recently, he was probably irritated by my constant wrangles. He said, "You know, we have other roads that carry more traffic than the A6". That is probably true, but it totally misses the issue that infrastructure is not there that should be there, irrespective of counting the vehicles that pass between 7 and 10 or whatever it is. Let us give the north-west a boost in tourism.”
“Let us not be negative; let us get back to the motion and the amendment. I do not want to see the proposals for the north-west parked in the same way as the cars are at Moneynick any longer. The issues are serious. They are not just about traffic jams but about economic and social inequalities. I came into the Assembly with other peace-loving people to address that issue 16 years ago. What have I to show in the north-west? There are talks going on at the moment, and there is chat about bonds for raising money. I suggest that we need a bond badly in the north-west to address the issues that, historically, have not allowed the north-west to develop economically in the way it should have.”
“Somebody needs to offer an explanation of why the north-west has been so unfortunate. It has had a really bad run of luck. If I were a betting man, I do not think that I would have won a horse race in the last 50 years. The M5 was parked up — no fault of the Minister — the M6 was sidelined, the railway was stalled and the Magilligan ferry, which has been mentioned again recently, has been long forgotten and has been tied up. We know from Mr Kennedy last week that it was never discussed in his Department before his time. That makes me wonder why I spent an afternoon with Mr Murphy at Magilligan solving the problem. I then discover that it was not an issue.”
“Mr Principal Deputy Speaker, I fully accept what Lord Morrow has said, but these things are relative. If, like you, he were to spend some mornings on the Moneynick Road, he would, in fact, describe the M1 as fantastic.”
“Of course. To the lord, I most certainly will.”
“<BR /> <BR />I think that any fair-minded Member — I repeat that I am one of them — who listens to the traffic reports every morning will know that there are three items of news: the M1 is flowing freely, there is a wee bit of a problem at Sandyknowes and, as usual, traffic is a at a standstill at Moneynick. Now, many people —”
“At one time, he was the Minister for Regional Development. Of course, he was rotating at the time. Some unkind people might say that, even today, he is still rotating, but we will leave it at that. <BR /> <BR />Of course, the previous Minister, Mr Murphy, did not sit on his hands all the time. We will soon get 14·5 miles of motorway from Larne at a cost of £140 million, complete with a bypass for half a dozen houses and a river diverted to please local anglers. Good luck to the people of Larne, but if you are in the north-west it is not a good deal. <BR /> <BR />One criticism that I would make of the previous Minister, Conor Murphy, was that he stubbornly refused to decouple the bypass, which the motion is about. I firmly believe that, if that had been done at the time, we could have made a lot more progress.”
“<BR /> <BR />Our amendment makes it clear that, while the bypass is critical, there are other serious transport issues that should not and must not be long-fingered for a variety of reasons, not least the fact that some direct rule Minister in the distant past promised that the whole thing would be up and running by 2016. Of course, we all know that it will not. <BR /> <BR />As you all know, I am a fair and reasonable Member of the Assembly, so I am not laying total blame at the door of the present incumbent, who, to be fair, as I have said before, found some money for the railways, which was a vast improvement on his predecessor. Now, again, because I am a fair person, I am not laying all the blame at the door of Conor Murphy either. I see a previous Minister across the Floor, Mr Gregory Campbell.”
“First, I want to thank the proposers of the motion. It gives me the opportunity to move our amendment, which lays our cards on the table in relation to how the north-west has fared in transport infrastructure investment over the years and what needs to be done to address that neglect. Our amendment extends the issue beyond the Dungiven bypass and recognises that there are serious issues all along that route. <BR /> <BR />It seems incredible that, at this late stage, the Minister is looking for an alternative route for a bypass; at least, that is what I am told. Either those in the past got it horribly wrong over 40 years, or the Minister needs to explain why he may not be following the plans that were gathering dust on his shelves. Of course, I look forward to Mr Kennedy sorting out the whole thing.”
“I beg to move the following amendment: At end insert”
“The Minister's answer is somewhat disappointing. Since we have made reference to that marginal line called the border, can I ask the Minister what discussions he has had with the Irish Government to ensure that those people on both sides of the border are protected, because they are often the people who are furthest away from the labour market?”
“The Member has appealed for unity across the Floor, and I totally agree with him. Does he agree that, if the Minister were to reverse this decision, he would unite the Assembly in a way that it probably has not been united in recent times? I put that question to Dr McDonnell as a medical doctor and also as a person who was reared in the glens of Antrim and who knows the immense feeling of the people in that area.”
“— and I know the feeling in north Antrim. Does the Member agree that there is an opportunity, this morning, to send out a message from the Assembly that we really care for those who need our help?”
“Does the Member agree that Members cannot possibly sit on their hands and allow the most vulnerable people in society to have their rights taken away from them? Given that this is a week in which the Assembly has got bad publicity, is there a golden opportunity, this morning, to send out a positive message to wider society? I am sorry that the Minister is grinning, because I am not grinning. I have been at the public meetings —”