John Dallat
East Londonderry · Social Democratic and Labour Party · Northern Ireland
“His and Donovan's contributions were invaluable. <BR /> <BR />I know that Alliance Members and others have spoken about Seamus Close, and I am conscious that his wife Deirdre is here today. Seamus Close was an amazing individual, and I had the pleasure of serving on the Public Accounts Committee with him.”
“<BR /> <BR />As you know, Mr Speaker — this will be of particular interest to you — Donovan was a Deputy Speaker, and he was a man of severe discipline. He did not suffer fools easily. On one occasion, there was a Member who was particularly troublesome in the morning. I reassure the existing parties that it was not one of their members.”
“I know other Members appreciated it equally. <BR /> <BR />I could not resume my seat without making reference to Reverend Robert Coulter — Bob, as he allowed me to call him. He was an incredible person who had a vision for the future of the Assembly that went far beyond simply winning the next election.”
“I was in the privileged position of being a member of Coleraine council for over 30 years, and, if I was asked to highlight one of the greatest events I experienced during that time, I would say that it was meeting Harry Gregg. I am not into sport big time, but I am into sporting people who have made a huge contribution to this world.”
“Donovan McClelland was a lecturer in the University of Ulster. Life could have been very comfortable for him, but he did not choose that. He contributed to the peace process that eventually became the Good Friday Agreement and, in doing that, he brought himself danger.”
“I welcome the Minister's responses so far. The average age of people in the northern region is very high. I am not sure whether the Minister knows how many passed away before adaptations were completed or shortly afterwards.”
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“In its findings, the report recommended that the overall structural maintenance budget should be increased to around £108 million per annum, which was considerably lower than that in England or Wales and about the same as in the Republic. In the intervening years, the road maintenance budget has relied on monthly monitoring rounds to a great extent to squeeze money out of the Executive to shore up what is, without doubt, a deteriorating situation when, clearly, the findings of Professor Snaith are long forgotten. <BR /> <BR />On the last day of July, our present Minister, Danny Kennedy, hit us with the bombshell that his budget was under considerable strain and that that would have an impact on the delivery of front line services to the public.”
“Professor Snaith's report highlighted the case for significantly enhanced investment to carry out much-needed maintenance repair work across the roads of Northern Ireland.”
“I am pleased to present this motion to the Assembly today. I am particularly pleased that the Minister for Regional Development is present and look forward to hearing his response and, of course, the contributions of other Members. <BR /> <BR />Members may be interested to know that it is almost five years to the day since Professor Martin Snaith, a leading authority in the field of structural maintenance and road condition assessment, presented a report of his findings on the state of the 25,000 kilometres of roads in Northern Ireland. The roads Minister of the day, Conor Murphy — you may remember him — welcomed the report, claiming:”
“I thank the Minister for her answer. I am sure that she will recall that one of the most successful groups in Northern Ireland in recent years was called Different Drums. Will the Minister give serious consideration to encouraging the integration of not just the drums but the accordions, pipes and everything else so that we can all enjoy the music together?”
“One of the features of the Dungiven project was that the funding from various sources was time-limited. In fact, I think that it was limited to September. Refusing to allow it to go to design stage put the project in jeopardy.”
“— whether Protestant, Catholic or of no faith whatsoever, that this is not the way forward.”
“No. You have had your say, and I will have my couple of minutes of glory as well. <BR /> <BR />I want to conclude by saying to the ordinary people outside —”
“I would be very surprised if Mr Campbell did not think that his colleague on that Bench was talking an awful lot of sense, whether he was or not. <BR /> <BR />Audits are very important. Of course they are, but this was stopping a project that had already begun and that several years of planning had gone into. That is the difference. Why pick on it? Why pick on Dungiven? Was there something about that town that they did not like?”
“I am really grateful to my former colleague from Coleraine Borough Council. I have very fond memories of him sitting on the other side, barging across at me. You need to bear in mind that the shadow council started voting on single projects. Then, when it got down to the last three, which included the Dungiven project, it had a multiple vote. I know that I am being a suspicious person. Why do you think that happened? I will take your advice not to talk across the Floor, although it is very tempting to do it. <BR /> <BR />Adrian intervened there. Of course audits are very important, but this was not committing the new council to anything; it was only asking it to proceed to design stage. It was not being asked to pay any money; the money was already provided by the old council, which is going out of business next April.”
“I just find it impossible to accept that the same individuals who sat on Limavady Borough Council supported the project going to the design stage, and then, when they got in with their new cronies in Coleraine, they changed their minds. I would not call anybody a Judas — God forbid, I would never do that — but that is exactly what they did. They put one hand up to support the project in Limavady, and then the other one. You can say what you like, but that is what they did. That is an awfully bad start for a new council, and it certainly did not do anything for the type of unity that we need across the new council area. I do not want to see the new council being a microcosm of what went before.”
“No; they cannot agree on that. The "Glens" part somehow causes problems to them and they need to get "Coleraine" into it. <BR /> <BR />With my 33 years' experience in Coleraine Borough Council, I would not wish that on anyone. Sporting facilities in Coleraine included 22 soccer pitches and no Gaelic games pitches. Only when legal action was threatened did that change. I can tell you that when the councils began to be a little more generous toward GAA clubs, it changed the whole atmosphere of the place. I am sure that the Minister would agree with me that sport is something that should bring people together. My God, it has in recent times.”
“I worried about Limavady and Dungiven in particular when the three models were mentioned; the seven-, 11- and 15-council models. I realised that if the seven- or 11-council model was chosen, a nationalist-controlled council was going into a completely new environment. I pleaded with Alex Attwood to support the 15-council model. At the Executive meeting — I hate to say this, but it is true — Martin McGuinness, after 10 minutes of debate, forced a vote, and we were left with the 11-council model. It means that actually only two councils switched — if we need to talk in those terms. They were Limavady Borough Council and Moyle District Council. Both happened to be in the new Causeway Coast and Glens District Council area. I was actually glad to hear Gregory say the name because apparently they cannot even agree on that.”
“I picked up Gregory Campbell saying that I was the mayor. The council came into being in 1973. It is finishing next year. In that span, there has been one nationalist mayor.”
“I hope that I do not cause offence by saying that it was unionist dominated. Every inch had to be fought for. There were no gifts.”
“I live in the neighbouring council area. I have a lot of sympathy for the people of Dungiven who apparently did not get the nod to go ahead with the design exercise. That is all that it was. Cathal Ó hOisín, in his introduction, mentioned all those famous people in Dungiven. I just want to remind him that we have Hannah Shields, who climbed Everest, and Martin O'Neill, who, of course, needs no explanation to anyone. Every community is proud of their people, particularly their young people, and they want to see the best provision for them. In recent times, because of health issues and so on, sport and such activities have become lifelong. The centre in Dungiven certainly did that. <BR /> <BR />I know that all of us could regret the past. I spent 33 years in Coleraine Borough Council.”
“Therefore, without wishing to criticise the Minister, the weight of the debate has been devalued by her absence. I am genuinely sorry that she was not here to give her strength to it. <BR /> <BR />Sometimes, when I am crossing the great Glenshane Pass, I tend to dream about better times — perhaps times when politicians were more effective. I can see those stagecoaches coming down the Glenshane Pass at high speed and stopping off at the Ponderosa to change the horses. Today, we are debating an issue that should not need to be debated. Yes, there is political partition: we know that.”
“We know what happened: foolish people sold off part of the Post Office. They flogged it for the silver — perhaps the same silver as the highwayman was stealing — and they seriously damaged the universal principles of the postal service. Today, the lucrative pieces of the Post Office are farmed out to private enterprise. They take the spoils and leave the rest for the poor Royal Mail of today to deliver. Of course, that has caused to stagnate any serious attempt to re-establish a universal postal service that is fit for purpose. <BR /> <BR />I do not want to make this controversial, but I am here long enough to remember good debates in the Assembly on the Post Office and mail delivery. Those debates were effective, and I know that there is an all-party group on the mail service.”
“Often, the old inn, referred to in the next line, was the staging post for the mail coach. That is where the horses were changed and passengers sometimes lost their gold and silver. Nothing deterred the post office of the day from delivering the mail, come hail or high water. Today, if I post a letter in Derry for Muff, which is just five miles down the road, it takes a week to deliver it. It goes to Athlone, is sent back up to Lifford and, eventually, drops on the carpet of my friend in Muff. That is partition gone daft. <BR /> <BR />What happened to the mail coach of the 1840s, when that letter would have been delivered the next day, highwayman or no highwayman? What happened to the true grit of the Post Office and the brave people who risked their lives day and daily to provide a decent postal service that was fit for purpose?”
“That was described by the poet Alfred Noyes in recording the activities of the period in the poem, 'The Highwayman'. I will quote a few lines from it to give you a taste of what it must have been like:”
“The history of postal services in Ireland is fascinating. They really swung into top gear with the introduction of the penny stamp in the 1840s, which is when the mail coaches began rushing up, down and across the country. Just for the record, sending a letter from Belfast to Dublin took a few hours then; today, it takes up to five days, and the cost is prohibitive. It seems a bit strange that, 170 years ago, a mail coach, pulled by four black horses on roads that had yet to experience tarmacadam, could do the job better. That is despite the fact that, today, we have modern motorways. <BR /> <BR />One of the dangers of the 1840s was the highwayman, who was a great tradition in Ireland and often relieved passengers of their gold bullion.”
“Given that there have been serious job losses in the sector since the action plan was devised, when the Minister evaluates it, will he look at a more broadly based plan that caters better for the geographical spread of job losses, which are not just confined to one area?”
“For the Minister to appreciate the absolute priority that this should be, would he be prepared to spend a night in Magilligan prison to experience the conditions under which the staff and inmates exist? Indeed, I would have no objection if he spent several nights in it.”
“— it is possible. There are plenty of financial models out there that should be looked at.”
“I do feel a bit emotional about this. I appeal to my colleagues right across the Chamber, and I am not identifying any party in particular: for God's sake, this ain't the debate for a bit of craic; this is not the debate for a bit of smirking and laughing; this is serious business. I passionately believe that each and every person in the Assembly has the capacity to deliver what the people need in Altnagelvin Hospital. Despite everything that I saw here today, I trust that, on reflection, they will do what is required. As with the cancer centre in Belfast —”
“We have probably disillusioned people outside who may have been watching. This is not about party point scoring; this is about people and their future. It is about the people who, as we speak, are given bad news one way or the other. I do not think, quite honestly, that we would want to leave the Chamber having created the impression that we had another wee point-scoring exercise in the Assembly. God knows, we create enough bad images for ourselves without using something as serious as a motion on cardiac and other facilities to save people's lives. I think that it is a step too far.”
“They are beautiful stories, and I think that that is a solid reason why every Member should put their party political hats to one side and say, "We will do this collectively and provide the facilities that are badly needed for generations to come". In doing so, we will not only provide for Altnagelvin but will sow the seeds of a very strong medical care service with our neighbours in Donegal, whose government help to fund this, and will help people in the Causeway. I am not suggesting that the Causeway is in any immediate danger of closing, but I know that, if Altnagelvin had the full range of services, that relationship would be strengthened and would give comfort not just to Altnagelvin but to the Causeway. <BR /> <BR />I think that we probably got off on the wrong foot today.”
“<BR /> <BR />My interest in Altnagelvin is not because I am supporting my Derry colleagues. Altnagelvin plays a major part in health care in the more immediate area that I represent. The partnership and cooperation between the Causeway Hospital and Altnagelvin is exemplary and something that I hope the Minister, who initially supported it, will continue to support. That is because, if you are on the balcony looking down on health care, you do not see borders or health trusts; you see people, and those are the people of Donegal, Derry, Coleraine, Ballymoney and beyond. <BR /> <BR />There was, rightly, mention of the taxi driver and that lovely story that came out yesterday, but I can tell Members that good stories come out of Altnagelvin and the Causeway every day. I hope that the Minister is pleased to hear that.”
“I came here with a prepared speech, but I am not going to use it, because I am rather annoyed and upset at the point scoring that has been going on. I loved my parents dearly. My father died from a massive heart attack, and my mother died a painful death from cancer. I am sure that if those people were looking in on the debate today, they would be quite horrified. <BR /> <BR />Many years ago, when we had similar financial problems, the cancer centre in Belfast was built. It is now overflowing, but, my God, what a gift that was to the people of Northern Ireland. If we apply the same principles today, surely the people of the north-west and far beyond are entitled to the same hope and inspiration from their elected Members as happened in times that I think were more difficult than those we are in now.”
“I appreciate that the focus is on the south-west, but I am sure the Minister will agree with me that there are pressures right across Northern Ireland. Can the Minister assure the House that, despite all the pressures he has, he can guarantee that vocational education, which played an absolute blinder in providing education to people who perhaps missed out the first time around, is bestowed with equality? Can he also guarantee that the capital projects will not simply be put to the end of the queue and that other, greater priorities will not be made?”
“The Minister may not be aware that today is the 40th anniversary of the murder of Judge Rory Conaghan and his colleague Martin McBurney. Can the Minister assure me that there is maximum cooperation between North and South to ensure that Irishmen such as judges Conaghan and McBurney do not lose their lives in the future carrying out their jobs to change society for the better?”
“The Minister may well be aware that, at the height of the building boom, many rivers were piped and culverts then created, but those culverts are not being checked on a regular basis and there is a question mark over whose responsibility it is. Will the Minister investigate that and ensure that, where those culverts exist, whole neighbourhoods are not threatened with flooding? One Department does not accept, another does not accept, the things are not adopted and neighbourhoods are living in fear.”
“I thank the Minister for his comprehensive answer, which I listened to carefully. Can he tell us what endeavours he has made to submit his proposals for equality impact assessment, given that the new councils will be very quickly judged on their ability to be fair in the distribution of their resources? Can he tell us what training the new shadow councils have undertaken to ensure that, come 1 April, they will be in a position to do the job and do it correctly?”
“He has outrun any usefulness that he ever had in the Assembly, and, with hand on heart, I make my plea to him: for God's sake, go.”
“I would have thought that the former Minister would have known the protocol of this place: you do not make statements from a sedentary position. He had his chance and he blew it big time. <BR /> <BR />The pantomime season is long over, but here we have a Minister — I would not describe him as Cinderella by any means — who still wants us to live in a world of make-believe: that he was doing one thing when in fact he was doing another. I have thought of many honourable people, much more powerful and important than our Minister for Social Development, who made mistakes and who had the decency, let us say, to resign when they made the mistakes rather than drag down a whole government in the process. <BR /> <BR />The Minister can do the Assembly a great favour and give us the oxygen and breathing space to start anew and move on.”
“At a time when hundreds, perhaps thousands, of people involved in the construction of roads and so on are about to lose their jobs, here we have a Minister —”
“That he and his entourage — backed by the ministerial car and the big briefcase and the phones and all the rest of it — thought they were speaking to one group when, in fact, it was a different group. That is laughable. Sorry, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker, it is not laughable; it is sad. It undermines overall the respect that the public might have for this Assembly. <BR /> <BR />Even at this late stage, there is an opportunity to be sensible and to start taking seriously the needs of the wider community and, dare I say, the 50% who do not even bother to vote any more because they have lost confidence in the shenanigans that go on here week after week. All you have to do is look at the Order Papers for today and tomorrow.”
“Many months have been spent going into the details of this, and I do not intend to regurgitate them. In fact, I am not a member of the Committee. My only concern is that it is not just the Minister for Social Development who is on trial. This Assembly is on trial. The public's confidence in this Assembly is at an all-time low. It could not be worse. We will face terrible times in the future if this Assembly does not mature, wise up and stop the nonsense that is going on. <BR /> <BR />We are being asked to accept that a Minister, flanked by top civil servants and well-paid advisers, attended a meeting of one group, as he thought, but that it was, in fact, a different group. I ask myself this with all sincerity and sadness: where in the civilised world would you find a Minister making a claim like that?”
“The Minister will be well aware that there is a pilot scheme — probably completed now — involving integrated transport in the Dungannon area. Will any new system take account of the possibility of public transport in Northern Ireland being shared with the community sector and the private sector?”
“<BR /> <BR />I imagine his family at this time will take comfort from the fact that Sam will be remembered not just as an Orangeman or whatever else he was in the unionist community but as somebody who won respect and admiration across the Floor. Perhaps there are not too many who have achieved that. That is a lasting memory for his wife Dorothy, family and friends: that Sam Foster was a changer of people's views and helped to put down enough foundations for this Assembly to survive and be here today.”
“As one of the original 26 remaining in this Assembly, I felt that I should say something in addition to what my party leader said. <BR /> <BR />I imagine that there will never be any pressure on me to write my memoirs but if there was, I would have to include Sam Foster in them because in those days there were people who came to this Assembly to make it work and there were those who came to make it extremely difficult. Sam was most certainly one who not only changed attitudes but did it by example. My lasting memory of Sam was as Minister of the Environment. Here was a man who was not overtaken by the graces of the ministerial car, briefcase and special advisers. He remained a humble man who you could go to in his office and talk to on matters of road safety and other things.”