Mark Durkan
Foyle · Social Democratic and Labour Party · Northern Ireland
“That review involved an extensive engagement exercise with charities, regulators and funders, aimed at creating a more modern and proportionate regulatory system.”
“When the review was commenced in 2021, many organisations were still in the midst of responding to the pandemic. Since then, they have faced a succession of new and evolving challenges. The ending of European funding programmes, on which so many in our communities relied for decades, has left a significant gap.”
“<BR /> <BR />The broad principles behind the Bill are sensible. The changes will modernise charity regulation, strengthen the Charity Commission's ability to intervene where misconduct or mismanagement occurs, improve information sharing and, importantly, reduce unnecessary red tape, particularly for smaller charities with limited adminis…”
“I welcome the opportunity to speak today. Before turning to the detail of the legislation — there will not even be that much detail in the debate today at Second Stage — I pay tribute to our charity sector. Across every constituency, charities provide support that changes and saves lives every single day.”
“<BR /> <BR />Whilst the SDLP supports legislation that removes unnecessary bureaucracy, we should not kid ourselves that administrative reform alone will secure the future of charities and organisations in the voluntary and community sector.”
“I thank the Minister for giving way. Like other Members, I welcome the fact that we have reached this point. There seems to be consensus among Committee members and, I am sure, all Members that the introduction of these measures will save lives, which begs the question of whether the 10-year delay in introducing the measures had an opposi…”
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“<BR /> <BR />Given that there has been extensive consultation, it is difficult to understand why the Minister has not taken the opportunity that the Bill presents to make the scheme voluntary for all social landlords. By excluding the Northern Ireland Housing Executive and retaining the mandatory right to buy for NIHE tenants, you create an inequality in access to social housing and ownership. It could very likely also have implications for the administration of the social housing allocation system. Might some people reject what, to all intents and purposes, is a reasonable offer of a housing association property while they wait for the offer of a Housing Executive home that they can ultimately own?”
“Some Members will have received the same correspondence as I have from Housing Rights, which shares many of the concerns raised by Committee members. The primary concerns seem to focus on clause 7, which deals with the abolition of the mandatory right-to-buy scheme in housing associations — sorry, the move to make it voluntary. The right-to-buy scheme has been popular, and members touched on that in Committee. It has allowed people to get on to the housing market affordably, and most of us will know many people who have availed themselves of and benefited from the scheme. However, in my book, the right to buy is trumped every time by the right to a roof over your head. We cannot afford to continue to sell off social housing stock while need increases and we are not able to build anywhere near enough homes to meet that need.”
“In the previous debate, I acknowledged the importance of the Bill and the hugely significant role that it would play in enabling us to build more houses and provide more homes. We all know people who have spent years on the list waiting for a home: families who, without the security of somewhere that they can call their own, have run the gauntlet of the private rented sector and others living in overcrowded conditions with their extended families and friends. We are failing those people. Any measure that can and will help us to help them is to be supported. <BR /> <BR />In the previous debate, I also acknowledged that the Bill was far from perfect. I am not the only one with questions about it.”
“Let us do it properly now. My party will not support accelerated passage.”
“We have not even received an opinion from the Northern Ireland Housing Executive. <BR /> <BR />The Minister and Executive have a job to legislate. As Committee members and MLAs, we have a job to scrutinise. The Bill has aspects that certainly warrant further examination and consideration. We will touch on them as the debate moves to Second Stage. We need to get it right in order to maximise its benefit to the people whom we are paid to represent. <BR /> <BR />I do not want us to take the time to unpick the Bill, but to improve it. I apologise to the Chair and fellow Committee members, and to the Minister, for not making the case more strongly at Committee, but I do not think that we can use the COVID-19 crisis as cover for merely rubber-stamping far from perfect legislation. For three years, we were not here doing our job.”
“In order to ensure that the ONS reclassification of housing associations is reversed and to realise the huge social benefits that it will bring, as well as the significant financial benefit to the Executive, the legislation needs to be in place by 31 March 2021. That is 31 March 2021. Are we saying that it is beyond our ability — that it is even beyond our ambition — to get the Bill through the normal legislative process by then? <BR /> <BR />Consultation has been done previously on the right-to-buy element of the Bill, but then apparently disregarded. As a Committee, we have received a briefing from the Minister and her officials over the phone, which is no fault of the Minister, her officials or the Committee, but we have not had a chance to get evidence from or question the sector.”
“One area where injustice remains is in housing. In 2020, thousands of families and individuals suffer homelessness and housing stress. We have a statutory and moral duty to provide homes for those people. The Housing (Amendment) Bill is an essential tool to enable us, through housing associations, to build and provide more social homes. Therefore, I want to put it firmly on the record that we support the essence of the Bill. <BR /> <BR />When the Minister came to the Committee to outline her intention to use accelerated passage to get the legislation through as quickly as possible, I, like other Committee members, expressed regret that we would not be able to scrutinise fully such an important piece of legislation. Ultimately, we acquiesced to the Minister's request, but over the weekend I have given the matter a bit more thought.”
“<BR /> <BR />We stand in sympathy with George's family and friends, and in solidarity with all those across the world who strive for a fair, just and equal society. We are motivated to do all we can, as leaders, to eradicate injustice in our community.”
“As social justice spokesperson for the SDLP, a party whose very raison d'être is the pursuit of social justice, I cannot let today pass without commenting on recent and ongoing events across the Atlantic Ocean. I apologise that I missed the Matter of the Day, but give me a wee bit of latitude, please, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker. <BR /> <BR />The murder of George Floyd, an unarmed and innocent black man, by Minneapolis police officers has shone a light once more on the injustice and intolerance that is still rife in the world. We, sadly, are no strangers to that, in this wee corner of it. We do not condone the rioting or looting that many cities now suffer, but we condemn 100% the institutional racism that has given rise to it.”
“I thank the Minister for her responses today and for her, and her Department's, response to the crisis that has engulfed us. I commend the Minister on not only her response to the crisis but her vision in looking beyond the crisis, particularly in the sphere of active travel. I was excited to learn of the Minister's proposals for her active travel plans for Derry city, which is in my constituency. Can she outline some of those, which I am hopeful will include the commencement of the Strathfoyle greenway in the future?”
“— when, in fact, they have been given to them, in some cases, four or five times. Will the Minister look at extending the deadline for people in that situation?”
“In response to my previous question, the Minister mentioned some of the convoluted situations that had arisen and had prevented businesses from getting assistance. Some of the rates-based assistance has been very welcome, but a number of people still have not been able to access it. The deadline is looming — it is imminent, in fact — and there seems to have been an issue with a lot of those people's payment details, with Land and Property Services (LPS) denying having their account details —”
“— businesses that are significant employers and important service providers but have been unable to avail themselves of any assistance. I know of someone who had been renting premises off a charity — it was not readjusted for rates — whose employee numbers disqualify them from the hardship fund. Can the Minister give a commitment to work with the Department for the Economy to establish some type of mop-up fund or final safety net for such businesses to ensure that none of them go to the wall completely?”
“There is some fantastic, positive news in the Minister's statement. That is very welcome, and my question should in no way be construed as a criticism of the response thus far. <BR /> <BR />There has been reference to businesses that have fallen through the holes in just about every safety net that has been put out there, and the Minister mentioned the hardship fund in his answer to Ms Sugden. However, that funding has criteria that are quite prohibitive. I can think of a couple of examples in my constituency of successful —”
“I thank the Minister for her statement. I have been very complimentary of most aspects of her Department's response to the crisis. While I have been critical of some aspects, I do not for one second underestimate the difficulty of addressing a wide range of issues as they emerge. <BR /> <BR />There has been reference this morning to the startling statistic that there has been a 90% increase in unemployment here, and the sad likelihood, if not reality, is that we will see more and, perhaps, even more dramatic increases in the number of people seeking that support. Is the Minister confident of the capacity in her Department to deal with further such increases, and does she have plans to increase capacity in that aspect of her Department's work and, indeed, in advice services?”
“<BR /> <BR />We see how well the Minister's Department was able to work with Education to find a solution for, and ensure support for, children and families dependent on free school meals. We need to see similar collaboration to support students. I accept that this Bill was not the vehicle to bring in that support, but there are people in real hardship: they really need help. Therefore, I will ask the Minister for an update on that at the earliest possible opportunity. On this Bill, we have no problem supporting it and welcome it very much.”
“Another thing that I might elaborate a wee bit on, which the Minister might not be as happy about, is that a week has passed since we raised the issue about support for students. I am not going to apologise for raising that again. We know that the Department for the Economy is responsible for students, but Minister Hargey has informed us of her involvement in cross-departmental efforts to sort out a safety net for students, especially those still paying rent for properties that they can no longer inhabit. As a consequence of the economic situation and the lockdown, those students are unable to find employment and have returned to and placed an additional financial burden on already struggling households, all of which is bound to have a huge impact on a student or any person's mental health as well.”
“I support the Bill. Members and the Minister will be relieved to hear that I will not rehearse all the points that I and others made last week and some again this morning and some again this afternoon. One thing that I really want to do is place on record again our thanks to the Minister and also to the Department, the Housing Executive and those working in the housing and homelessness sector, whether it be on the phone lines or on the ground. They have performed brilliantly throughout this crisis, and I am sure that they will continue to do so. <BR /> <BR />I will touch also on the importance of continuing the work with landlords. They are a critical part of the housing jigsaw.”
“I thank the Minister for giving way. I commend her for introducing the Bill, and it was remiss of me earlier not to commend the work that Ms Sugden did as Minister and has done since on this hugely important issue. <BR /> <BR />The Minister spoke about the messaging that we put out. While that is good and has undoubtedly assisted with increasing the number of reports of domestic abuse that are made, does the Minister acknowledge the role of the mainstream media, if you like, including soap operas such as 'Coronation Street', in not merely entertaining but educating people? There are people sitting at home who may have been the victim of abuse for 20 or 30 years and not realised it until they saw it happen to someone on their screen.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. My point relates specifically to his last remark about children being used by perpetrators of domestic abuse. Obviously, we all share the concern that lockdown means that a lot of children are locked in and are witnessing domestic violence and are stuck in the middle of domestic abuse. I go back to his point about children being used and the concept of parental alienation. I have no doubt that, in some instances, the lockdown is being used by perhaps a resident parent to reinforce and re-entrench, on the children, their negative views of the absent parent. Does the Member have any views on that or on whether parental alienation should be included in the definition of domestic abuse?”
“I do not think that anyone should be attacked or demeaned for bringing amendments to a piece of legislation.”
“I invite the Minister to reaffirm that position and to outline what risk there would be in changing the period to a year and with the same flexibilities in place to reduce or end that period of protection when necessary. That will be crucial in determining how we vote this morning. <BR /> <BR />If we can already do what Mr Carroll's amendments are asking us to do, what is the point of those amendments? I know that Mr Carroll said that he will not now move amendment No 14. I am glad to hear that because that is one that we would certainly vote against, and, in my view, it is superfluous. The other amendments deal with the extension of the period. It is vital that people know that we are doing all that we can to protect them, and I do not think that this is the place for political point-scoring from any side.”
“I certainly understand and appreciate the intention behind Mr Carroll's amendments to afford what, on the face of it, appear to be ensuring more protection for tenants and to do so for longer by extending the period of protection against the issuing of notices to quit from 12 weeks to one year. Last week, I emphasised the importance of flexibility so that there is a mechanism whereby the period can be extended if necessary and for as long as is necessary. The Minister was, at that stage, able to give the assurance that that will be the case. <BR /> <BR />It is imperative that we as an Assembly do everything that we can to keep a roof over people's heads and food on their table during this crisis and beyond.”
“I lamented that the legislation could not have been done sooner and that there was no provision to apply it retrospectively, but I also, following conversation with representatives of some of our most respected, responsible and reasonable groups working in the housing sector accepted the need for speed and their concerns that even well-intentioned, apparently helpful amendments may have unintended consequences and even jeopardise a Bill that, although not perfect, is certainly a very welcome piece of legislation to protect people in the private rented sector. <BR /> <BR />While we as a party have therefore resisted tabling amendments, that is not to say that we would or will view unfavourably any amendments that are tabled.”
“I have approached today's debate like I approach every debate: with an open mind and a determination to secure what is best for people. I spoke at length last week on the aspects of the legislation that we in the SDLP might, in normal circumstances, use as a vehicle to deliver, with, primarily, a specific focus on students and the hardship that the current situation is causing them.”
“It had not been my intention to speak on the motion, but I will echo the remarks of the previous Member. We have a real need for speed, so we support the Minister in her endeavours.”
“It has been said before in the House that we cannot allow the perfect to be the enemy of the good. The legislation is not perfect, but it is good and it will do good. We support the Bill.”
“<BR /> <BR />While the focus of today's debate is clearly the need to protect tenants, we must also consider landlords. The Chair of the Committee touched on that; I also raised this in Committee. The vast majority of our landlords are small or single-property landlords; they are not all big, bad Ebenezer Scrooges. The vast majority of landlords are responsible and reasonable, and this situation has caused them headaches and considerable heartache as well. Yes, they do have hearts. Many can and will avail themselves of the mortgage holiday, but that option is not open or available to all for whom rental income is their only source of income. Landlords need to know what support they can avail themselves of. I know that work is being done with the Landlords Association (LANI), and we would like to hear a bit more about that.”
“I am not sure that people are being signposted to it before having other doors closed on them or as they have other doors closed on them. <BR /> <BR />While the temptation will certainly exist for Members and parties to use the Bill as a catch-all or, at least, a catch-more, soundings suggest that any attempt to do so could well delay the legislation going through and, ultimately, defeat its purpose of helping people to keep a roof over their head at this extremely stressful time. It would be most useful, therefore, if the Minister could give insight into what other work is being done and assurances that it will be done, so that Members do not feel the compulsion to amend and, in doing so, do not inadvertently delay or even jeopardise this extremely important legislation.”
“I appreciate that the Department for the Economy has responsibility for universities and Minister Hargey told us in Committee of her efforts to work with Minister Dodds's Department on the development of the existing student hardship fund, but we need to hear more about that. Those affected need to see the fruit of that labour and collaboration, and they need to see it soon. If there is none, we must look to the Department for Communities for either a new mechanism of support or to allow students to access existing support from which they are currently excluded. I recognise that the discretionary support that we spoke of earlier is open to students, but, despite efforts to get it out there, awareness remains low.”
“However, without willing or wishing to sound overly critical — I am certainly not criticising the Minister — I think that it is fair to say that it was pretty clunky. <BR /> <BR />Some will see what is in the Bill or, rather, what is not in the Bill as an opportunity to make amendments that, if successful, would catch some of those who have fallen through the various safety nets that the Executive have thus far put in place. Students, for example, were referred to. Many students are tied into tenancy agreements that they are no longer availing themselves of. Most of those who had part-time jobs have lost them due to the ongoing crisis, and many will have moved back home to their parents, who themselves are experiencing hardship. The returning students will have put an additional financial burden on those households as well.”
“<BR /> <BR />There is also the question — Kellie Armstrong touched on it in the previous debate — of the retrospectivity element of the legislation. There is a fear that, even now, some landlords may — I know that some already have — try to issue notices to quit in advance of the legislation receiving Royal Assent. <BR /> <BR />At the other end, it is vital that the legislation have the flexibility to extend beyond the specified date in the Bill. Should we need to, we must be able to go again, in the event of another deadly wave of the virus. <BR /> <BR />The communication of what the Bill does and what it means for tenants and landlords needs to be clear and concise. I appreciate the guidance that was issued by the Department last week.”
“<BR /> <BR />Clearly, the intention of the emergency legislation and its accelerated passage through the Assembly is to mitigate the threat and to give tenants in private rented accommodation one less thing to worry about at a time when people have so much to be worried about. The legislation is not perfect. That is not merely a political view; it is a view shared by some of the most empathetic experts in the field of housing. They have looked, I suppose, at measures in other jurisdictions. In the Republic of Ireland, for example, issuing notices to quit has been banned altogether. I think that there is a similar approach in Scotland. Therefore, I would like to hear from the Minister — I have already heard — some clarification, for the benefit of the House, of how or why that cannot be done here.”
“I too support the Bill. Members will be all too aware, some more than others, of the scourge of homelessness and of the devastating impact that it has on families and individuals financially, emotionally and psychologically. The threat of homelessness, therefore, is at any time unpalatable, but the threat of homelessness at this time is completely unacceptable. I take the opportunity to commend the great work of the Department, the Northern Ireland Housing Executive and, most of all, the homelessness sector, which has been most hands-on in its approach to tackling the crisis. We have seen the tremendous results from their work, and they deserve all our praise.”
“I thank the Minister for coming back. I will save my commentary on the intention behind the Bill for the debate on the Bill itself. I echo the Chair's sentiments that the use of accelerated passage is far from ideal, but it is fair to say that the circumstances that we find ourselves in are even further from ideal. Failure to get the legislation through in an expedited fashion could be disastrous. Therefore, Minister, you have the support of the SDLP.”
“<BR /> <BR />The resource issue is also very important, and I am glad that the Department is sending troops to that aspect of the service to ensure that there is sufficient staff to respond to demand. However, it is vital that the staff who are deployed to that area are sufficiently trained and informed so that they are able to deal with this in an expedited and sensitive fashion. This is an extremely difficult time. There are many vulnerable people out there, and this has made them even more vulnerable. There are people who would never have classed or thought of themselves as being vulnerable who are now vulnerable, and it is important that they know that there is support available and that they are able to get it as quickly as possible.”
“I echo the remarks made by the Committee Chair and Ms Ennis. I welcome this and other moves by the Minister throughout this crisis. The Minister thanked Members for allowing this to happen so quickly. I thank the Minister for her effort in that regard. She has demonstrated not only great effort but great empathy, which is evident in many of the aspects of her and her Department's response to the crisis. <BR /> <BR />The points have already been made by the Committee members and others, and I think it is vital that, although the Minister has outlined statistics that demonstrate that there is awareness of the support and accessibility to it, I think that we need to do more to increase awareness of it and ensure that there is signposting to it when people in desperate circumstances are having other doors slammed in their face.”
“I thank the Minister for his statement and also for his efforts and those of his Executive colleagues in getting a safety net in place for those impacted economically by the crisis that is engulfing us. That safety net still has holes, and we have heard a bit about them today. We all have a responsibility to identify those holes with a view to mending them so that nobody falls through. <BR /> <BR />In terms of the financial impact and the resources going towards that safety net, will the Minister give an assurance that they will not impact on another safety net that the Assembly has agreed is essential to protect our most vulnerable people, and that is welfare mitigations? Will that impact on our ability to extend and strengthen the mitigation package?”
“Mr Buckley touched on the inevitable impact that this situation will have on the Assembly and Departments, and their ability to function. Has there been much conversation, discussion or thought across the Executive about the impact that this might have on our legislative programme, particularly legislation that is required promptly to extend welfare mitigations? It is vital that we know what we are doing should extraordinary action be needed to ensure that the worst situation that any of us will have experienced does not become even worse.”
“I welcome the fact that the paper will be brought to the Executive soon; it was always anticipated that the Executive would need to match fund what was announced by the UK Government last May. Will the Minister give a commitment that he will work with Executive colleagues collaboratively to help to address the economic and infrastructural deficit in the north-west?”
“I thank the Minister for his statement. I acknowledge that he said that healthcare staff are not undervalued. That is great. However, he cannot deny that they are overstretched. We know that there is a shortage of a couple of thousand nurses. Is the Minister confident that there is enough capacity in the health workforce to deal with what could come? Are there contingency plans in place for when healthcare staff inevitably have to take time off?”
“I appreciate, as the Minister has outlined and underlined, that the role to advise lies with the PHA. However, as a supplementary to my colleague's question, we have heard a lot from schools and principals about the difficulties that they have had with resources over a number of years — sometimes, they cannot afford soap. What practical and financial support can the Minister's Department provide to schools? Buying materials is one thing, but if teachers are going to take time off, bringing in substitutes eats into school budgets too.”
“I am delighted to hear that more public realm schemes are in the pipeline for East Derry; it is great to see them wherever they may be. Will the Minister assure the House that any maintenance contracts associated with the upkeep of such schemes will ensure, or at least demand, swift responses from contractors to repair remedial defects?”
“— on which her officials have been working hard in the absence of Ministers, I have to say. It would be remiss of us not to mention that the absence of an Assembly for three years has cost us a lot of opportunities with our greenway infrastructure.”
“We hope to expand that greenway infrastructure that we are blessed with in the near future. There are a couple of cross-border projects funded through Europe, with greenways running into Buncrana and Muff in Donegal. The Minister would be extremely disappointed, I am sure, if I were not to mention the Strathfoyle greenway —”
“I believe that investing more in our greenways and marketing them better is why more people are using them, including our local people. Often these greenways are among our best-kept secrets, and I think that we have to market them better. Whenever we are marketing individual constituencies or the North in general as a tourist destination, we should be putting them in the foreground. There is a big market for it, and I think that we should become known more for our cycle paths than our psychopaths. <BR /> <BR />I will now get onto my own constituency, where we are blessed with a good greenway infrastructure, despite our many hills that make cycling not that easy. The Minister has pledged to deliver on EAPCs, which might make it a bit easier for some.”
“I thank the Member for the intervention and for demonstrating just how well-used the Comber greenway is. I think that it is fair to assume that use increases on all our greenways year-on-year. <BR /> <BR />I was touching on the economic benefits and on what I had seen in France, but you do not have to go that far afield to see it. You had cafes and coffee shops and so forth sprouting up along the route of the greenway. I was there for a couple of weeks, and I used the greenway daily to go and do shopping. It was a lot safer than trying to get used to driving on the right-hand side of the road. In County Mayo too, we have a great greenway network that has delivered a real economic dividend for that area. Many tourists come from far and wide to visit it.”
“I am heartened by statements from the Minister so far. Her presence in the Chamber demonstrates her commitment to improve the greenway infrastructure. The benefits are manifold. The environmental ones are clear and obvious: they are there in the name "greenway". Then there are the economic benefits, which are not always as immediately obvious, although some Members on the opposite Benches have mentioned them. I have certainly seen them in other areas. I was fortunate enough to spend a couple of holidays in France, just outside Bordeaux, where there is over 100 kilometres of —”
“I am not a complete stranger to the greenway, however. I recall, on occasions during my time as a Minister, I had my driver leave me six or seven miles out the road or along the greenway in the mornings, and I ran here. I experienced many of the benefits that Members mentioned. It was a great way to clear the head and prepare for the day ahead, and I probably got here more quickly, although that is more a reflection on Billy's driving than on my running, to be honest. The virtues of the greenway, and greenways in general, have been stated. The Comber greenway is clearly held very dear by the people of East Belfast, and true affinity with and affection for the greenway can be heard in the comments of the elected Members. <BR /> <BR />It is vital that we do what we can to expand the greenway network.”
“Like the previous contributor, I might be a bit more geographically removed from the Comber greenway. I was certainly impressed by the very intricate knowledge of it that has been demonstrated by some of the East Belfast Members. Chris Lyttle knows every square inch of that greenway. I think of him now as Crocodile Dundonald.”