Mark Durkan
Foyle · Social Democratic and Labour Party · Northern Ireland
“That review involved an extensive engagement exercise with charities, regulators and funders, aimed at creating a more modern and proportionate regulatory system.”
“When the review was commenced in 2021, many organisations were still in the midst of responding to the pandemic. Since then, they have faced a succession of new and evolving challenges. The ending of European funding programmes, on which so many in our communities relied for decades, has left a significant gap.”
“<BR /> <BR />The broad principles behind the Bill are sensible. The changes will modernise charity regulation, strengthen the Charity Commission's ability to intervene where misconduct or mismanagement occurs, improve information sharing and, importantly, reduce unnecessary red tape, particularly for smaller charities with limited adminis…”
“I welcome the opportunity to speak today. Before turning to the detail of the legislation — there will not even be that much detail in the debate today at Second Stage — I pay tribute to our charity sector. Across every constituency, charities provide support that changes and saves lives every single day.”
“<BR /> <BR />Whilst the SDLP supports legislation that removes unnecessary bureaucracy, we should not kid ourselves that administrative reform alone will secure the future of charities and organisations in the voluntary and community sector.”
“I thank the Minister for giving way. Like other Members, I welcome the fact that we have reached this point. There seems to be consensus among Committee members and, I am sure, all Members that the introduction of these measures will save lives, which begs the question of whether the 10-year delay in introducing the measures had an opposi…”
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“Their plans have been thrown into disarray. Forcing this group of women to change their life, plans and future, without considering the challenge that will pose for them, is a far cry from equality. To force them to accept these changes without sufficient time to make adequate provision is completely unfair. <BR /> <BR />While today is the first official Opposition day in the Assembly, I would like to think that Members and parties will unite in support of the motion. We must, as an Assembly, put all the pressure we can collectively bring to bear on the Westminster Government to re-examine their position and bring forward fair, transitional payments for the women affected. This is not the first time these arrangements have been debated in the Chamber.”
“It is also particularly unfair to force women to face two accelerations while men face just one. <BR /> <BR />Previously stated timescales indicated that there should be no changes until 2020. Therefore, women in work, and, indeed, women who left work in the belief that they would receive their pension — it is a pension that is their entitlement; a pension they have paid for — may not have enough money put by to cover them in the new transition period. We are talking about a generation of women in the North who are and have been the backbone of our society, growing up and raising children through some very dark times, often against the backdrop of low pay and inequality. Many women, as Mrs Pengelly pointed out, are now sandwiched between the conflicting pressures of caring for elderly parents and helping their own children with childcare.”
“I, too, support the motion and congratulate its proposer for bringing this important issue to the Assembly for debate. All Members so far this evening spoke about the inequity and, indeed, the downright unfairness of the acceleration of the equalisation of and increase in the state pension age. <BR /> <BR />Coming from a party with equality at the core of its ethos, I will not argue against men and women qualifying for the state pension at the same age. However, I am pretty sure it was not a desire for equality that prompted the Westminster Government to push through the Pensions Act 2011. It was and remains purely a money-saving exercise designed to get more money in from people without putting more money out. It is certainly not cognisant of the needs or the rights of the individual.”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I apologise to the House for not being in my place for a topical question. I have often been tempted to miss Question Time, but that was usually when I had to answer them.”
“It is imperative that we as an Assembly do all that we can to support the Minister in any bids that she makes for her Department to receive additional funding to ease the transition to the system of healthcare that we need in order to be sustainable. That does not mean, "Close all hospitals". Mr Storey made some very good points about what care or types of specialist care can be provided in specific areas. That should be explored, and it is something that will give heart and some solace to the people working in those areas as well. Like I said, I urge the Minister — I do not mean for her to get a move on — to release the report as soon as possible. Otherwise, she could be back here next week answering MLAs from another constituency, and that could go on and on.”
“I think what we have learnt, however, is that it is of vast importance to resource that journey.”
“I do not expect the destination outlined in the Bengoa report to be drastically different.”
“<BR /> <BR />As long as the report is not out in the public domain — as long as we do not know what is in the Bengoa report or what the Minister's reading of it is — there will be a cloud over every element of healthcare, certainly hospital provision, right across the North. <BR /> <BR />A lot of Members touched on the Bengoa report. Mr Allister's final point about the move to community care and the need to resource it was very important. Transforming Your Care was the road map to a better healthcare system, and I think that everyone in the Chamber agreed with its direction of travel and indeed probably its destination. The sad reality is that no one put petrol into the car, and we never got out of the forecourt to move towards reaching that destination.”
“The debate takes place in the context that we still await the publication of the Bengoa report. Mr Swann lamented the fact that we had not seen it yet. He thought that the debate might have been secured in anticipation that we would have seen it. I take a contrary view: I think that this might be a case of Mr Storey and, subsequently, the rest of the MLAs from the constituency getting their retaliation in first. <BR /> <BR />The debate underlines the importance of the Minister releasing the Bengoa report as quickly as possible. I do not ask the Minister to rush it, and I do not think that anyone could accuse her of doing so at this stage. There is a lot to deliberate on, but it is important to get the report out and for the Minister, subsequently or in tandem with that, to reveal her vision for its implementation.”
“The cost of these crimes to the public purse and to the planet is staggering, and the penalties associated with these crimes really ought to reflect that. <BR /> <BR />Mr Anderson spoke of the need for a collaborative approach. We certainly concur with that, and any producer responsibility scheme and/or used tyre register will need input and will expect and demand output from a range of agencies. In our opinion, that can only be truly successful if implemented on an all-island basis, and I ask Members to support the amendment.”
“The Minister pointed out that that cannot be done, although, in the case of compressed bales of waste tyres, it might be permissible. Maybe we could discuss it in the future; I know that she is very interested in coastal erosion. <BR /> <BR />A few Members mentioned bonfires. It is important that the work continues with councils and communities to eradicate tyre-burning on bonfires at any time of the year. The point that Mr Poots and Mr Beggs made about commercial crime around used tyres is something that really needs to be clamped down on.”
“Mr McMullan cited something that the former Environment Minister had done in 2015 and then said that nothing had been done since 2013. A few Members referred to Lafarge: in 2015, the prosperity agreement was finally, Mr Poots, signed between the NIEA and Lafarge Tarmac, which allowed the company to use tyres as a waste-derived fuel, burning tyres in their kilns instead of coal and, in doing so, reducing their carbon emissions by 10%. That is a good example of the reuse or recycling of waste tyres. New ideas like that will help to prevent substantial numbers of waste tyres being dumped or used illegally. Other uses have been touched on today, including surfacing in playgrounds, safety measures at level crossings and, as Mr McKee and Ms Archibald suggested, sea defences.”
“The amendment calls for collaboration with the Department in the South as there has already been a partial producer responsibility scheme for tyres in place there. The review of that scheme, maybe two years ago, recommended a full producer responsibility scheme, and Mr McGlone mentioned that. <BR /> <BR />The Minister outlined how there has been huge resistance, unsurprisingly, from some in the very lucrative used tyre industry. It is fair to say that we can expect similar resistance here, but that should not deter us in any way from proceeding with positive initiatives that are for the greater good. Mr McMullan mentioned the carrier bag levy during his contribution. <BR /> <BR />I will address some of the points that contributors made today.”
“<BR /> <BR />I think it is fair to say that considerable work has been done on the issue — the Minister outlined some of it — by the Environment Committee in the last mandate and by past Environment Ministers. Last year, when I was Minister, I launched a used tyre action plan informed by and, importantly, in liaison with the Environment Committee. From listening to Members today, it is clear that we are not where we would like to be on the issue, but we are moving in the right direction. <BR /> <BR />It is worth pointing out that a lot of the problems mentioned during today's debate are not exclusive to Northern Ireland — maybe with the notable exception of bonfires — and nor are the difficulties in eradicating the problems that we have discussed exclusive to us in the North.”
“I welcome the opportunity to give a winding-up speech in what has been a healthy and positive debate. From today's contributions, it is clear that there is political unanimity that used tyres are a major problem and that there is a need for the appropriate Department and statutory agencies to get a grip on the problem and remove the environmental risk and the economic cost of used tyres. Therefore, we welcome the motion that has been brought to the House. We have proposed an amendment, which I think the Minister has now confirmed was correct, as we feel that to successfully tackle the issue, we cannot do so in isolation. We are all aware that the environment does not recognise artificial borders and neither do environmental criminals. We should not let them hamper us or restrict our attempts to ensure greater environmental protection.”
“I thank the Minister for her answers thus far. Regardless of what the expert panel says, I do not think that we need an expert panel to tell us about the need for change. Nothing should make that clearer to us than these horrific figures. Is the Minister aware of individuals and families putting themselves in debt so that they can receive private care, given how long they are being told they will have to wait for these consultant-led appointments?”
“— and to families as they fought for services for their loved ones and support for themselves, is immeasurable.”
“A failure to address that meant that it snowballed from, we think, £4 million in 1994 to the amount that Mr Hussey mentioned — probably in the region of £8 million, which is the figure in the wording for the debate and the figure that we are all using. For those listening to or reading this who might not be aware, that is the figure each year for over 20 years. Tens of millions of pounds — possibly over £100 million — have not been spent on services for some of our most vulnerable, and that is just shocking to say the least. It is my understanding that the RQIA is completing a further study that should establish the full extent of the underspend, but how could anyone calculate its full cost? The physical, emotional and mental cost to service users, the people who wanted to use a service but were denied —”
“Now, finally, the huge and historical underspend in the area has been confirmed by the trust. <BR /> <BR />The feeling of the families on the ground whom I have spoken to — I think that Members from elsewhere across the trust area confirmed this today — is that, had it not been for the RQIA report and its imminent publication, the trust would not have gone public about the underspend. In fairness to the trust, it facilitated meetings with us as MLAs and elected representatives. We have asked a lot of questions. We have, as Mr Hussey said, probably come away with more questions. There are layers and layers — I said "layers". <BR /> <BR />The deficit, it seems, can be traced back through legacy trusts and the myriad of bureaucracy to as far as 1994.”
“I agree with everything that everyone has said thus far, apart from one point from the Member who secured the debate, Ross Hussey. Talking about the deficit, he said, "We did not know", and similar shock was expressed by other Members. This issue, however, did not just drop out of the sky. The deficit in spending on learning disability services in the Western Trust had taken on almost mythical proportions over a number of years, so people would have heard about it. It might have reared its ugly head during, for example, the annual furore over day-care places for young adults with a learning disability, but it was never confirmed. I am not the only person here who raised questions about it, only to be bamboozled, in effect, by obfuscation and denial.”
“I thank the Minister for his answers thus far. The fear, frustration and uncertainty that other Members and the Minister spoke of are not exclusive to local government. Indeed, all that is prevalent among departmental staff. Will he give the House an assurance that he is working with staff to ensure that staff charged with regeneration in the Department are being kept abreast of the situation as it develops?”
“Families are at their wits' end, trying to get and to give the best care that they can.”
“<BR /> <BR />Much has been made of the direct and indirect costs associated with mental illness, and they are immense. However, any comparison of estimates and costs with those in the Republic of Ireland, for example, shows just how bad the situation is here. Yet, shocking as those figures are, they do not touch on the real human cost. People have their life put on hold or even lose their life as they await diagnosis and treatment.”
“The appointment of a mental health champion would be a great start. The champion would work with us and the Minister to ensure that sufficient funds were made available to improve mental health services as set out in the Bamford review and that funding was ring-fenced against any future budget cuts. <BR /> <BR />An early action should be another regional review of mental health services to examine the extent to which services are fragmented — and they are fragmented, especially in rural areas. It is also imperative that we develop better partnership working and collaboration. Not least, the champion should be able to look across and work across other Departments, particularly the Department of Education, as Ms Seeley said.”
“<BR /> <BR />I hope that the Minister will be the fairy godmother-type figure who finally resources this Cinderella service and enables it to get to the ball.”
“Others have told us that it is estimated that one in four adults here will suffer from a mental health problem at some stage, which equates to some eight people in the Chamber at the moment. <BR /> <BR />We often hear about and, indeed, talk about in here how mental health is every bit as important as physical health and how mental ill health can be every bit as painful and debilitating as physical illness, but this has never been recognised in budgetary terms. The meagre share of our budget dedicated to mental health is shameful. I noted in the Minister's statement last week that she would be a champion for mental health, which I very much welcome. We must all be champions for mental health.”
“I welcome that fact that the amendment recognises the impact of austerity on mental health. Some of us made that point repeatedly as we opposed the draconian Welfare Reform Bill and the effect that it will undoubtedly have on some of our most vulnerable people. <BR /> <BR />That said, we believe that the amendment is maybe not strong enough. We believe that the Minister should appoint, rather than "explore the role and remit" of, a mental health champion, although I take on board what Ms Bradley says in that we will not let the issue slip away and will keep it on the agenda. <BR /> <BR />Regardless of how a mental health champion is funded, that person will have their work cut out. Here in the North, as Members said, we have higher levels of mental ill health than any other region on these islands.”
“While I see some logic in what the UUP is proposing for the funding model to ensure the independence of the role, existing overworked and effective organisations in the sector might baulk at the idea of the position being funded from their already overstretched budgets, a lot of which comprise European funding, but that is an argument for yesterday and maybe other days in the future. Those organisations do not want to lose out in financing a post that they will have to work closely with. No doubt, they welcome the motion and the initiative behind it. <BR /> <BR />There are other mechanisms, I am sure, for funding a mental health champion in an arm's-length way, which can ensure its independence and autonomy. We should not have to look too far for those.”
“I welcome the opportunity to speak on the motion. I commend the UUP not just for the motion but for their continued desire and efforts to raise the profile of mental health and increase the urgency with which we deal with this difficult, complex and emotive issue that debilitates individuals, families and whole communities. <BR /> <BR />I welcome the amendment tabled by Sinn Féin. Like Ms Bradley, I do not think that this is an issue on which we should divide. The motion and the amendment have many merits. The amendment does not propose that any mental health champion should, for example, be funded from charitable contributions.”
“I am sure that the Minister appreciates the importance of rail connectivity with our airports in developing our economy through business and tourism. In light of that, does the Minister have any plans to look at the prospect of establishing a rail halt at City of Derry Airport?”
“I am very heartened by that answer from the Minister. Will she clarify that she recognises the valuable role of the community and voluntary sector in delivering addiction services and is committed to working with it and listening to it when designing services in future?”
“I thank the Minister for her answers thus far. It is good to hear of the Minister's commitment to enhanced North/South collaboration. Can the Minister say anything to allay the real concerns that exist about what negative impact there will be on existing, planned and future cross-border or North/South services and projects in the event of the result of the referendum being that Britain and Northern Ireland leave the European Union?”
“I thank the Minister for that update. I commend the work of those NIEA officials who have been left literally to clean up a mess made by criminals but made easy by the actions or inactions of Departments in the past. Could the Minister give me an assurance that she will seek to find the funding necessary for a public inquiry into the situation at Mobuoy either from her departmental budget or with the help of her Executive colleagues?”
“— and I shall reciprocate. <BR /> <BR />I just want to double-check that the Minister is confident that the £500 million mitigation fund, as established by Fresh Start, will cover the new, and in some cases unforeseen, cuts contained in this subsequent legislation.”
“I thank the Minister for that answer and congratulate him on his appointment. I remember how easy the Member went on me during Question Time —”
“I thank the Member for giving way. This touches on his comments regarding the image or perception of the Northern Ireland Environment Agency in the rural community. Does the Member agree with me that an independent or arm's-length environmental protection agency might be the way to go?”
“Surely we can find the money to invest to save, if we can manage to find £30 million or £40 million every monitoring round to throw at the problem of waiting lists without ever dealing with the issue. <BR /> <BR />The Health Committee learned just last week that the number of GP training places is being increased to 85. That is very good, but, given the crisis facing general practice that we also heard about in the media last week, we do not believe that it goes far enough. We would like to see a further increase and, indeed, have costed proposals on that, which you will hear more about in the weeks and months to come. There needs to be further investment in early intervention in mental health, which will save our economy a lot of money in the long term and will save a lot of patients and families a lot of heartache and headaches.”
“That will see a reduction in bed-blocking, as it is termed, although I do not particularly like the term, and our much-maligned, and rightly maligned, waiting lists will reduce in length.”
“That basically allowed the Treasury to dictate to us how we manage our financial affairs. <BR /> <BR />We heard an extremely positive piece of news last week about the money coming from the European Investment Bank for housing. That is to be welcomed, but if we are to meet the huge need for social housing across all our constituencies, we have to maximise the borrowing power that we have at our disposal. That can be done only by allowing the Northern Ireland Housing Executive the same access to borrowing as housing associations, maximising the value of its housing stock. <BR /> <BR />On health, I will reiterate the point I made last week that the redistribution of services from acute settings to community care as outlined in Transforming Your Care and costed at £83 million is essential.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Minister spoke about the possibilities afforded by borrowing. Certainly we should look at what opportunities exist to draw down cash to invest in projects that will boost our economy and create employment, but we cannot just go around the banks, borrowing money just because we can and racking up debt for our and future generations. Unless, of course, the Minister subscribes to the fiscal policy that his party espoused not that long ago — it was just last year, in advance of the Westminster election — that all debt should just be wiped. <BR /> <BR />Also, when entering any finance agreement, it is very important that we read the small print. Members will recall the £100 million loan sought from the Treasury by the DUP and Sinn Féin to ease a budgetary crisis.”
“The confidence of Ms Little Pengelly earlier that the reduction of the rate of corporation tax will proceed when stated and as stated contrasts somewhat with the Minister's mysterious musings on the subject in the media last week. There is also an inevitable impact on public services with the reduction of corporation tax, and I know Dr Farry touched on that when he spoke. <BR /> <BR />We need to see further and cleverer investment in skills and education to create a ready workforce, and we need to invest properly in infrastructure so that companies can access that new workforce. In that regard, I am very pleased to see the commitment to the A6 and A5, but I am a wee bit cautious that these much-needed and much-welcomed projects will face further delays down the road.”
“Perhaps the Minister can clarify how these new cuts have been factored into the spending of the mitigation fund. <BR /> <BR />As the SDLP health spokesperson, I will move on to how much more wisely, as opposed to just how much more, money should be spent on health. We, as an Assembly, need to ensure that less money actually needs to be spent on health in the first place. We need to ensure that our population is healthier, and one way of doing that is to ensure that our population is wealthier. An improved economy is something we all want, but we are going to need a bit more than the magic bullet that is a reduced rate of corporation tax. I am not the only Member with questions about the trajectory of that magic bullet and whether it is or is not still on target.”
“<BR /> <BR />I would also like some reassurance that this fund, designed to protect against the worst impacts of welfare reform, will be sufficient to do so, particularly as the Fresh Start Agreement predated the passage of the Welfare Reform and Work Act through the House of Commons. That Act, passed after the Minister's party voted with the DUP to hand responsibly for welfare issues back to the Tories, is a further attack on the vulnerable people the Minister says he is determined must not be left behind. It will see the benefit cap, for example, reduced from £26,000 per household per year, which affects fewer than 500 families here in the North, to £20,000 per household per year, which, I imagine, will affect a few thousand more households.”
“As a member of the Opposition. <BR /> <BR />I take this opportunity to welcome the Minister and to wish him well in what is certain to be an extremely challenging role. I listened to the Minister's speech earlier and was extremely heartened to hear him declare his opposition to austerity. I am hopeful that we will not have to remind him of that too often during his time in office. <BR /> <BR />The Minister spoke of the fix-all Fresh Start Agreement and pointed to the £500 million mitigation fund, secured to ensure that vulnerable people would not be left behind, in his words. Of course, though, that £500 million being spent in mitigation is coming from other budgets, and we must ensure that it does not create more vulnerable people or make life more difficult for vulnerable people by resulting in reduced services.”
“— but to claim benefits or at least try to claim benefits while out of work.”
“Many people, while waiting so long for treatment — Mrs Dobson touched on this — develop further health issues, such as mental health issues. They can gain weight due to the impact on their everyday activities and abilities, and there can be further complications. There are also financial implications for those who are out of work as a result of their condition and those who might have no option —”
“That is almost as much as in three other trust areas combined. <BR /> <BR />Transforming Your Care was heralded as the road map to better healthcare, and while, at the time of its publication, the SDLP agreed with the destination set out in that road map, we also emphasised the need to ensure that we had the fuel to get there. As it is, we have barely got off the forecourt. The implementation of the plan needs investment. Rather than investing to save, the Department seems to have been just cutting to save. The failure thus far to implement TYC sees patients stuck in hospitals due to lack of care packages and, essentially, bed-blocking and exacerbating the waiting list crisis. <BR /> <BR />While much has been made and will be made of the financial cost of tackling extensive waiting lists, what about the costs of not doing so?”
“We all want to see patients get fixed quickly, but we cannot continue with this quick fix approach of lurching from one monitoring round to another in the hope of getting funding to, in some cases, throw at the private sector or the independent sector to pick up the slack. While I, like everyone here, I am sure, have people close to me who are delighted and relieved when they get a letter telling them that their procedure will be carried out, albeit privately, this system is not sustainable and is not satisfactory. We should be investing in our health service, not eroding it, and private companies should not profit from people's suffering. Urgent action is needed in staff recruitment and retention. Nowhere is it required more than in the Western Trust area, where last year £13 million was spent on locum doctors.”
“We should rightly celebrate the fact that people here are living longer — that is, I suppose, evidence that our healthcare system is working in some way or other — but, with that ageing population and the increase in chronic conditions, more pressure is placed on our hospitals, which are bursting at the seams, our Ambulance Service and, as we heard today, our general practitioners. <BR /> <BR />We cannot look at the waiting list issue as a hospital-only problem. All areas of our system are inextricably linked. We must look at what is being spent where and ensure that strategic long-term planning and investment are forthcoming if the issue is ever to be tackled meaningfully.”
“They are totally scandalous. Almost 400,000 people are waiting for a first outpatient appointment, diagnostic test or inpatient treatment. That is four times the population of the Derry urban area. <BR /> <BR />This is not a problem that has developed overnight, and it will not be solved tomorrow. We need to examine the factors impacting on waiting times, and we need to address them all strategically. There are many contributory causes, and, clearly, the funding constraints facing the Health Department and, indeed, all Departments are a major one. Those pressures are obviously compounded by the huge and ever-increasing demand, a demand that is clearly already outstripping capacity.”