Colin McGrath
South Down · Social Democratic and Labour Party · Northern Ireland
“Minister, regardless of where people stand on the exact figure, surely we can all agree that a health service cannot function without the doctors whom it trains.”
“Minister, climate change is happening, and extreme weather events are taking place. We saw that in Downpatrick a number of years ago when the town centre was ravaged by flooding, and it has taken the businesses affected many years to try to get over that flooding.”
“Minister, given that capital funding is, generally, being decimated, the extent of which may increase as a result of the Executive's not agreeing a Budget, what impact will that have on any final road maintenance strategy, and are any contingencies being put in place to manage that?”
“<BR /> <BR />Since March 2025, the parliamentary excellence programme has delivered dedicated sessions with the Executive Office on the strategic framework and its delivery plan, enhancing Members’ understanding of the cross-government approach and their role in scrutiny, legislation and constituency engagement.”
“<BR /> <BR />More broadly, the Assembly Commission supports Members and Committees in carrying out their scrutiny functions, including in relation to the Executive Office’s work on that framework.”
“As the Member mentioned, one example is the Assembly's Women's Caucus, which has a particular focus on supporting women in public life and highlighting the increasing challenges that women face in the digital sphere, including online abuse.”
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“Given that cutting waiting times is one of the nine priorities in the Programme for Government, it should be an easy sell for the Health Minister to make to the Executive, and it should be easy for the Executive to say to him, "Here is the ring-fenced money for you to deliver speedier waiting times for those who are dealing with cancer". It has been referenced throughout the debate how that is a frightening time and how people feel as though they are alone as they face the challenge of combating cancer. Knowing that there will be a speedy response from hospital services would be of use to people. <BR /> <BR />I do not need to detain the House. We have talked about all the issues.”
“I have faith that they will come down and that, once they align, all the interventions will enable us to chip away at the lengthy waiting times and allow us to see critical waiting times start to reduce. <BR /> <BR />If the Minister knew what his budget was, if he had a pot of money from which nothing could be taken away and if he knew that funding would be there for a number of years, that would be helpful and would allow all the initiatives to be underpinned with financial security in order to ensure that they are delivered.”
“Thank you, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker. The tone of the debate was respectful, compassionate and constructive throughout: I will withdraw those terms when we come to the Minister's final remarks. Beyond those remarks, however, we were generally respectful and compassionate and took the opportunity to discuss a very important issue. <BR /> <BR />I understand, appreciate and welcome what the Minister has detailed, insofar as a range of interventions are taking place in cancer treatment that will hopefully help people. My only concern is that those interventions did not start in the past week or two. We have had them for a while, and the figures do not seem to be being driven down.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Yes, absolutely. There is not enough money to deal with the issues that we have, so I entirely expect that it will take additional and ring-fenced funds to be given to Health. If we are truly serious about dealing with the issue, we absolutely need more funds, but they should be ring-fenced so that they specifically go to Health and the public can see what they are doing.”
“As I have said several times, there is nothing more frightening than getting a cancer diagnosis, but, after getting that diagnosis, there is nothing more insulting than weeks and weeks of radio silence while you wait to access treatment. I really believe that ring-fenced budgets would help. They would give the Health Minister another tool to continue his work of challenging waiting lists and giving the people in our community who get a cancer diagnosis the best possible fighting chance of overcoming it.”
“<BR /> <BR />While new and emerging technologies and new ways of running services are delivering better outcomes, we know that they carry a financial cost. Therefore, it is essential that funding for such services be ring-fenced across multi-year budgets. The reason for proposing the amendment is that we know that, in any sphere, if you know what your budget will be going forward, you can start to plan the work that you will do. You cannot do that if you have one-year budgets all the time or money coming in from monitoring rounds. If the Executive, supported by the Opposition in the House, decide that we want to tackle waiting lists, because it is one of the biggest issues, let us really throw all our might behind it. Let us give the Department the tools that it needs to tackle and reduce waiting lists, especially for cancer.”
“It is important to look to best practice that we could consider adopting here. Some of that has been referenced. One example is that several NHS trusts in England and in the South now utilise AI and high-resolution digital imaging to analyse tissue biopsies. Little things such as that are being done in different ways to help to speed up diagnosis and, therefore, people's access to treatment. It has enabled faster, more accurate diagnosis, particularly in breast, lung and prostate cancers. In some instances, it has cut diagnostic waiting times by as much as 30%. We can clearly see how that reduces hospital pressures and helps to address health inequalities among those who are more prone to receiving such a diagnosis. We know that the Patrick G Johnston Centre for Cancer Research has commenced work on that, but we should support it further.”
“We know that the world goes quiet and that the breath leaves your lungs. Life is then split into before the cancer diagnosis and after the cancer diagnosis. When waiting — waiting to be seen, waiting to know and waiting to begin treatment — is added on top of that fear, it becomes unbearable. It is no longer just the illness that hurts; it is the delay, the uncertainty and the feeling of being forgotten in that system. That is why we cannot speak about waiting times as though they are just dry statistics or an Executive target; they are people's stories and lives. It is our duty to respond with urgency and compassion. I have no doubt that Members across this place are committed to that cause, because none of us is immune to cancer and its impact. <BR /> <BR />We know that more must be done to combat cancer.”
“I use that word deliberately, because it is all too often associated with cancer and cancer waiting times. For generations, the word "cancer" has carried a weight unlike that carried by any other. In the past, it was whispered; it was not spoken. It was the "Big C". It was the diagnosis that people feared more than any other. We know, sadly, that that fear remains. No matter how far medical science has come, the words "It's cancer" can land like a hammer blow. For the patient who receives them, alone or with a family member, it changes their life completely. As an elected representative, I have spoken to people who can recall with perfect clarity the moment when they heard that they had cancer. We all have party colleagues and family members who have received that news.”
“The amendment is offered in the spirit of trying to support and help the debate. We want to see a plan for dealing with waiting times, especially those for cancer services. The Health Minister regularly says that there are difficulties with finance. From a cross-Executive perspective, if we were able to ring-fence the funding as it makes its way towards you, Minister, that is exactly what it would be spent on, and it would mean that everybody in the Executive was taking the issue of cancer waiting times seriously. If the Department has and uses that funding, if we know what the outcome of that will be — that x amount of funds will reduce waiting lists by x amount — and if we all know what the funding is up front, there will be no competing for budgets when money goes down into Departments. <BR /> <BR />I mentioned "fear".”
“Thank you very much, Deputy Speaker. I welcome the opening of the debate and the fact that we are debating this incredibly important motion. It is the sort of thing that we should discuss in this place, because it goes to the core of what impacts on, frightens and scares people in the community. One can think of nothing that does that more than getting a diagnosis of cancer.”
“Given the popularity of sea swimming and the significant disparities in the levels of potential faecal contamination at bathing water sites across the North, with no more than 17 colony-forming units (CFU) the measurement at Tyrella; up to 690 at Crawfordsburn; up to 1,900 at Warrenpoint; and up to 6,100 in Brompton Bay, in the Minister's constituency, will he commit to commissioning a review of the bathing water regulations, as recommended by the Office for Environmental Protection?”
“Will you commit to publishing monthly the number of patients who are waiting at the start of each month, the number who have been treated each month, the number of new patients and the number of patients who are waiting at the end of the month, so that we can see whether those initiatives by the Executive are working?”
“Thank you for your statement, Minister. Of course, we welcome anything that can be done to address waiting times. However, I am concerned that the plan continues to rely on outside providers, over whom we have no control, and repurposes existing staff complements, when unions tell us that staff are already worked to the bone and some already work in the private sector, and that all that is underpinned by a mere £50 million extra at a time when trusts are being asked to make even more savings. With Encompass now in place, often, we cannot get access to up-to-date figures on waiting times, waiting lists or even the number of beds.”
“We need to use and embrace technology in order to help people, and it is important that we fully support that effort. <BR /> <BR />I welcome the motion. I hope that the Executive can get beyond the discussion about money by finding transformation funds that could be used to look properly at how we can reduce diabetes in our communities and therefore help people to lead better lives.”
“Of course, the Executive will not be able to do everything, but, if they prioritise what they can do — what they can fund — on transformation of our community as well as of services, I am pretty certain that, when it comes to health services, trying to change the outcomes for people with diabetes will be up there. <BR /> <BR />I have gone off the script that was in front of me, so I will finish by saying that the technology that has been talked about is critical. We can see the devices that people have in the community. Anybody who has them talks about their transformational nature and the effect on their life. Given the difference between type 1 and type 2 diabetes, it is important for those devices to be rolled out as far as possible.”
“At that time, there was a suggestion that one of the greatest things that we could prevent is diabetes, because the impact that it has on our services is absolutely massive. As we go forward, that is only going to increase. unless we do something. I appreciate that there will be discussion amongst the Executive parties about, "If we want to change something, you need to give me the money to do it, and, if you don't give me the money to do it, I can't do it", but we have to analyse those decisions. I want to see an Executive that analyse all the decisions that they have to take and prioritise the ones that they can do.”
“I have family members with type 2 diabetes who sometimes have to go through the fight of staying off certain types of food, and it is never a polite response that comes back the way. It is important that we use the opportunity that is available to us all, whether that is education or tackling the social injustices in our community. It is up to us, as legislators, to stop managing diabetes after the damage is done. We must move much more quickly towards a preventative model whereby we stop people from getting diabetes. Of course, that will mean investing in a diabetes prevention programme. I remember back to the time of the Bengoa discussions. Bengoa talked about this type of thing: the idea that, if you stop people from getting sick, they will not have to use the health service.”
“When we talk about type 2 diabetes, which accounts for about 90% of cases, we are not talking only about blood sugar levels but about the food on somebody's table, the heating in their home and the streets and community services that are around them. That is why those in our poorest communities are twice as likely to develop diabetes. That is a fairly stark reality and tells us that this is not just about educating people on what to eat and what not to eat. There are many other underlying issues that we need to address. It is not just a healthcare failure; it is social injustice. The cost of inaction is staggering: as I said, diabetes costs us £1 million every day. <BR /> <BR />Those who live with diabetes know how difficult it can be to manage. There have been other experiences.”
“If we were to spend £1 million a day to give our children free sweets, I am sure that there would be absolute outcry — maybe not from the children, but from everybody within the health sector. In Northern Ireland, however, we spend in excess of £1 million every day to manage the consequences of diabetes, and the outcry is, at times, somewhat muted. It is not a distant crisis; it is a crisis that we face right now. It is present today, and it impacts on the people whom we represent. I support the motion and thank the proposers for tabling it. <BR /> <BR />Diabetes is not just a clinical diagnosis but a deeply social condition. It can be shaped and worsened by poverty, inequality and decades of missed opportunities in public health.”
“It recently came to light that only half of the money that was allocated to give desperately needed help to businesses in places such as Downpatrick after the floods was actually allocated to businesses. Instead, it was allocated to Departments such as the Minister's. Does she think that it was fair on those beleaguered businesses of Downpatrick and other places that the finance that was allocated for them was instead used for departmental spend?”
“May the soul of Pope Francis now rest in peace, which he so beautifully espoused and so faithfully witnessed to people throughout his life.”
“However, there is hope and prayer in the hearts of many Catholics that whoever is chosen to succeed Pope Francis will carry forward his mission to make the Church a home for saints and sinners alike — humbler, more accepting and more open.”
“<BR /> <BR />Pope Francis changed the style of the Catholic Church, but, perhaps even more profoundly, he changed its tone. He met countless victims and survivors of clerical sex abuse and acknowledged the Church's failures. He apologised without condition and moved decisively away from a culture of silence. In 12 years as Pope, through his witness and his words, Pope Francis helped to bring many people back to the Church, not by changing doctrine but by opening new doors to dialogue, presence and understanding. His was a papacy of mercy, and perhaps there is something in there that we can all learn from. <BR /> <BR />The Catholic Church is in mourning, and we await the convening of the conclave.”
“Like others in the House, I welcome the opportunity to pay tribute to Pope Francis. There is a saying that, when a man becomes Pope, he dies to himself. He takes on a new name, one that will, in many ways, define what his papacy will stand for. Yet, this Pope did not disappear into the role. He brought more of himself to the role, perhaps more than any Pope in modern history. He lived humbly, ate with the poor, visited prisoners and embraced all as a friend and equal. Wherever he went, he carried a message of mercy, kindness and compassion. When he assumed the papacy in 2013, he carried that message to the world, challenging everyone from the loftiest leader to the simplest shepherd to see in every face their brother or sister.”
“There should be an apology to the families who have been let down, an apology to the children who have been let down and a promise that, from this point on, we will get it right.”
“<BR /> <BR />Service provision for those with a learning disability is an issue that is close to my heart. I have done a lot of work on it over the past number of months and years. I have asked the Minister many questions about the learning disability service model that will be published and consulted on. It has been co-designed with trusts. It will have a costed action plan. It will be a bit of a game changer and help embed respite care and put it on a more equal footing across the North. I commend the departmental officials who are getting that document ready for publication. I have met them, and I know that their passion is to make sure that the service that is provided in the community meets families' needs. All of us in the House want to see that need being addressed, as it has not been addressed up to now.”
“We understand, having heard from the Department of Health at the Committee, that, from April onwards, we will see an expansion of existing facilities and the recovery of the beds that have been lost as a result of COVID and other pressures over the years. I have to be absolutely clear, however, and say that, at one point, 499 children across the South Eastern Trust area were waiting for disability services. That includes those who were looking for respite care. In the Belfast Trust, the figure was 34. In the Western Trust, it was 140. In the Southern Trust, it was 180. In the South Eastern Trust, it was just under 500. That, even in its own right, should speak to the fact that some sort of intervention is required to address the imbalance or at least to assess why there is such extra need in the South Eastern Trust.”
“I welcome the Adjournment debate and thank the Member for bringing it. It is an incredibly important issue that we have covered at great length in the Health Committee. It is close to all our hearts, because it concerns some of the most vulnerable in society and those who carry the mantle of caring for them. There are few issues that galvanise the political view across this place as much as this one. I pay particular tribute to the families who spoke out so eloquently in the BBC 'Spotlight' documentary and when they have spoken to us in this place and at the Health Committee. The 'Spotlight' documentary was a remarkable piece of film-making on the challenges that they face and the absolute importance of having respite care. <BR /> <BR />We know that there are specific staffing issues in the South Eastern Trust.”
“They must learn from past mistakes and focus on efficient, strategic and long-term investment. Do that and, perhaps, we will finally deliver a Budget that genuinely delivers for people who live here.”
“I know that the Finance Minister is keen to see our Budget, as he mentioned yesterday, and I am sure that, with the 3,480 staff in his Department compared with the two in mine, he will be willing to wait just a bit longer for that detail. However, we have a housing plan. It was thoroughly costed, and it demonstrated what can be achieved with a clear and focused strategy, which is something that the Executive have frequently failed to deliver. <BR /> <BR />In conclusion, while vital, it is not just about the amount of money that we have; it is about how we choose to spend it and how we leverage the powers that we have to make public finances go further. It might require hard decisions, but the Executive cannot continue to bury their heads in the sand and blame everyone else as things get worse.”
“All they do are sell people short and give way to hopelessness. <BR /> <BR />There clearly needs to be more funding, but there is a need for the Executive to be critical and honest about how well it is being used currently. Just last week, the Public Accounts Committee highlighted the massive overspend on major capital projects — over £3 billion. Imagine what we could have achieved if that had been directed towards critical areas, such as healthcare, housing or childcare. <BR /> <BR />As an Opposition, we have proposed practical solutions to ensure that public money goes further while addressing Programme for Government priorities.”
“The Fiscal Council outlines that there remains scant detail on how Programme for Government priorities will be funded, with several not being costed at all. <BR /> <BR />The Executive are no longer in a position to blame others for their own inaction. Both pieces of work highlight the need for greater fiscal devolution to put our public finances on a more sustainable footing. That point was reinforced yesterday by the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee's report on the funding of public services in the North. Despite the urgent need to progress that critical issue, successive Finance Ministers have sat on their hands. Decisions on how we run this place are then inevitably constrained by the choices made by the UK Government. It is hard to tell whether the Executive are helpless or hapless.”
“Less diplomatically put: they are barely linked at all. In the draft Budget, as little as £425 million is directed towards Programme for Government priorities. To put that in perspective, that is less than 3% of the overall total Budget. Even then, that meagre funding is not guaranteed, with much of it dependent on the outcome of in-year monitoring rounds. Some might call it creative accounting, but you cannot deny that it simply does not add up. <BR /> <BR />The Executive say that the Budget will help to do what matters most, but, based on the figures, how are we supposed to take that seriously? We have to remember that this is one of the largest financial settlements that we have ever had. With it, there is an opportunity to invest strategically in our shared priorities.”
“It is important to acknowledge that having a Budget prepared and a Programme for Government in this place is definitely a step forward. We are here to talk not about the Budget but about the findings of the Committee for Finance and the NI Fiscal Council in their interrogation of its draft. <BR /> <BR />While the language of the two reports is relatively clinical and objective, the content clearly identifies many areas of concern. To begin, the alignment, or lack of it, between the Budget and the Executive's much-hailed Programme for Government is a key point for the Northern Ireland Fiscal Council, which states:”
“After the previous set of wildfires in the Mournes in 2021, we were promised a wildfire management plan and a Mournes wildfire strategy, which were to be delivered by the Department of Finance and the Agriculture Department, so does the Minister agree that the lack of progress on those matters has, literally, fuelled the fire and put our firefighters, our communities and our natural environment at grave risk?”
“I echo the remarks that were made about the work of the Fire and Rescue Service over the weekend. It was absolutely pushed to its limits and did a sterling job to try to help our natural environment. <BR /> <BR />Four years ago, we had a serious issue, and one of the only things faster than the Fire and Rescue Service was the Sinn Féin Finance Minister and the Sinn Féin MP for the area calling for all sorts, from an innovation hub, to a fire management plan, a strategic wildfire group and a wildfire stakeholder forum. Does the Minister feel that he has enough money to deliver the interventions that are required so that this does not become an annual event for us?”
“Minister, given that just about 5% of the overall Budget deals with the priorities in the Programme for Government, which do you believe is more lacking: the overall percentage of funding available for the priorities or the ambition of the Programme for Government?”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. Inherent in the previous 'Priorities for Youth' document was the protection and enhancement of the role of those in the voluntary sector as the leaders in the delivery of youth work in our communities. I am not sure that the Education Authority actually delivered on that policy element of the previous document. Will the Minister assure us that the voluntary sector, which is delivering and is the most flexible in our communities in its ability to meet the needs of local children, will still get that prevalence and be able to deliver quality youth work?”
“Thank you very much, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker. Given that the First Minister said last week that the Executive are investing to deal with waiting lists but that it transpires that the so-called investment is merely the ring-fencing of existing money — the First Minister says "investment", the Finance Minister says "ring-fencing" and the Health Minister says "creative accounting" — do you think, Minister, that the Executive owe the public, those languishing on waiting lists and our hard-working and dedicated healthcare staff an apology for their gaslighting and fake news about the money to deal with health?”
“Recognising that the nature of reasonable adjustments will vary from Member to Member and from office to office, the provisions of the 2025 determination for the recovery of reasonable adjustments and disability costs are not restrictively prescriptive.”
“The Assembly Commission takes these matters seriously and engages with disability groups as part of its wider work, but issues relating to the provision of constituency services by Members are the responsibility of each individual Member, not the Assembly Commission. Properties leased as constituency offices should be fit for purpose. When considering leases, Members should consider the needs of disabled individuals proactively, where requirements should be contemplated in advance. Therefore, Members should ensure the suitability of a property in meeting the statutory obligations of disability access etc. That requirement has been built into the new 2025 determination for all new leases, going forward.”
“<BR /> <BR />Guidance on all areas of financial support is available in the administrative guide that accompanies the 2025 determination or on the Finance Office’s page on the Members’ portal.”
“In the first instance, a Member should engage with their landlord to ensure that the terms of the lease are adhered to in that regard. <BR /> <BR />Members are considered to be service providers for the purposes of the Disability Discrimination Act (DDA) 1995. That legislation makes it unlawful to discriminate against disabled persons in connection with the provision of goods, facilities and services. The provisions of the 2025 determination allow a Member to recover the costs that are incurred but are not covered by the lease to meet the statutory responsibilities arising from the DDA regarding reasonable adjustments. That ensures that persons with a disability are not placed at a particular disadvantage when they are either employed by a Member or visit the office.”
“I thank the Member for his question. As Members will be aware, the Assembly Commission published the Assembly Members (Office and Staffing Costs and Allowances) Determination (Northern Ireland) 2025, which is referred to as the "2025 determination", on 7 February this year. The 2025 determination sought to extend the provisions that already existed. Members may continue to recover costs that are wholly and necessarily attributable to a disability that a Member has. Members may also continue to recover the costs incurred in making reasonable adjustments to the constituency office for persons with a disability, where those costs are not covered under the terms of the lease. That may be for a disabled member of staff or to facilitate access for disabled members of the public. The nature of the disability is not defined.”
“I thank the Member. The disability access audit should be completed and a report with the initial findings presented in May 2025. We will not know until we get the report what works are required. We will hopefully have an update for Members at that stage.”
“I thank the Member for her question. I do not have the specific information on that. We can come back to the Member, but I suspect that that is, likewise, included in the audit. I expect that it is, but I am sure that we can write to give you clarity on that.”
“I thank the Member for his question. The initial findings will be presented following the audit, so we will hopefully have them soon. The audit will identify any areas in which improvements can be made in order to enhance accessibility for people with disabilities.”
“With your permission, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker, I will group questions 5, 12 and 15 together. <BR /> <BR />I thank the Members for their questions. The Assembly Commission has engaged with the Department of Finance to carry out a multifaceted listed building survey for Parliament Buildings that will include a conservation management plan and a disability access audit. The audit commenced on Wednesday 26 March, with three days being spent surveying the Building. It is anticipated that an initial report will be received by May. Any recommendations arising from the report will then be considered.”
“Thank you very much, Minister. Your previous answer feeds into what I was going to ask. That £150 million is not a small amount of money, but it is also not a very big amount of money. If we go through a full list of activities such as that, there is a risk that we may spread the money so thinly that it does not make any real difference in overall terms. Is there some cognisance of the need to try to find and support big projects that will deliver real change, bring jobs and investment and maximise the bang for our buck?”