Colin McGrath
South Down · Social Democratic and Labour Party · Northern Ireland
“Minister, regardless of where people stand on the exact figure, surely we can all agree that a health service cannot function without the doctors whom it trains.”
“Minister, climate change is happening, and extreme weather events are taking place. We saw that in Downpatrick a number of years ago when the town centre was ravaged by flooding, and it has taken the businesses affected many years to try to get over that flooding.”
“Minister, given that capital funding is, generally, being decimated, the extent of which may increase as a result of the Executive's not agreeing a Budget, what impact will that have on any final road maintenance strategy, and are any contingencies being put in place to manage that?”
“<BR /> <BR />Since March 2025, the parliamentary excellence programme has delivered dedicated sessions with the Executive Office on the strategic framework and its delivery plan, enhancing Members’ understanding of the cross-government approach and their role in scrutiny, legislation and constituency engagement.”
“<BR /> <BR />More broadly, the Assembly Commission supports Members and Committees in carrying out their scrutiny functions, including in relation to the Executive Office’s work on that framework.”
“As the Member mentioned, one example is the Assembly's Women's Caucus, which has a particular focus on supporting women in public life and highlighting the increasing challenges that women face in the digital sphere, including online abuse.”
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“It is sometimes profitable for those who push it, and it preys overwhelmingly on young people, some who are as young as 13 years old. <BR /> <BR />Future students of history will, with bleak curiosity, one day study conversion therapy alongside electric shock therapy and other forms of discredited and harmful practices. However, today in Northern Ireland, that stigmatising, highly damaging and valueless practice endures. Despite those practices having been roundly dismissed by all credible medical bodies and condemned as deeply homophobic by LGBT+ rights groups, they unfortunately continue to find a market in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />Forms of therapy can differ across the world. Some are sold as talk therapy cures, whilst others can involve heinous so-called corrective rape therapy.”
“Perhaps even more concerning is that a 2019 Education and Training Inspectorate (ETI) report recorded that one third of pupils in Northern Ireland thought that their school was not welcoming to the LGBT+ community. Perhaps, then, it is little wonder that the scourge of homophobia persists and remains something that we in the Chamber must continue to fight. <BR /> <BR />There is, of course, a particularly grubby practice in this part of the country that we must address today. It does nothing to remedy the above abuses; rather, it furthers a culture of intolerance and fosters shame, self-loathing and guilt in the LGBT community. It is a practice that the medical and therapeutic establishment has entirely debunked.”
“Thank you very much, Mr Deputy Speaker. The history of homophobia in this country is a long one — one which, for too long, has heaped shame on the LGBT sons and daughters simply for being who they are. There has been much progress over the years to enable the LGBT community to be who they are and to live the life that they have, but, despite the great progress that has been made on this island, we know that that form of bigotry has not gone away. <BR /> <BR />Recent research into schools in Northern Ireland found that 68% of LGBT+ students faced bullying, the results of which contribute to higher levels of depression, self-harm, drug abuse and suicide.”
“Following on from that point, given that the rating policy is crippling our town centre businesses and the fact that the consultation closed months ago, will the Minister detail when the outcomes of that consultation will start rolling out to help businesses that desperately need it?”
“The amendment's request to hold off on that and maybe try to do it during the mandate leaves us open to the possibility of it being rushed through in the final few weeks during some very late sittings, meaning that it will be passed without the required consideration. That is why I support the motion.”
“If we start to put the offences into other pieces of legislation, we send a message that they are being mixed in with other things. Stand-alone legislation tells our community how serious the issue is: it equips our agencies with the ability to go out and deliver. <BR /> <BR />On the issue of timing, we have to accept that, on the majority of occasions, this place is glacial when it comes to passing laws except for the final two or three months of the mandate when everything gets shoved through as quickly as possible. That is why we want to see some work being carried out as quickly as possible. Start some of the Bills. A Bill could be introduced within 12 months.”
“— mention of time. I will quickly take an intervention.”
“<BR /> <BR />Some Members may argue that the existing legislation is sufficient to address hate crimes, but I think that folding the issues within other Bills is not enough. The reality is that hate crimes continue to occur, and we cannot be complacent. A stand-alone hate crime Bill would send a strong, clear message to the community that we are committed to protecting the rights and safety of individuals, regardless of their background. Doing anything else might suggest that we are taking a second-rate approach and that, in some veiled way, such crimes are being treated less seriously. <BR /> <BR />We heard —”
“A stand-alone hate crime Bill could provide victims with greater support and protection and allow discussion at the Committee Stage and at other points to look at the support that is currently available and at whether it could be enhanced to help those who are impacted on by hate crime. <BR /> <BR />We also have the issue of data collection. Again, by introducing a specific Bill, we could examine the types of data that are collected and how they are collected. That would help us to challenge hate behaviour in the future, because there could be patterns of behaviour and locations. The data that is collected could enable us to make sure that we challenge the behaviour before it becomes an issue in our communities, if that is possible.”
“Thank you very much for that. As long as we are doing everything that we can do to address the matter, we are sending out a strong signal. It is important to signal what we can do and how we want to challenge the issues that still lie in front of us. It is about clearly defining hate crimes and, as mentioned, ensuring that our agencies are equipped to identify and prosecute offenders. <BR /> <BR />A dedicated hate crime Bill could establish enhanced penalties for hate crimes. It is essential that we send a strong message to those undertaking such crimes that their actions will be met with severe consequences. By imposing stricter punishments for hate crimes, we could deter potential offenders and protect some of the very vulnerable people in our community.”
“The definition should encompass a wide range of offences, including physical violence, harassment, verbal abuse and, as was referenced earlier, online hate speech. By clearly defining hate crimes, we can ensure —.”
“It is our duty and responsibility to protect the rights and safety of everyone, regardless of their background or identity. <BR /> <BR />Currently, hate crimes in Northern Ireland are channelled into general criminal legislation that does not adequately address the specific nature and impact of the offences. We need a stand-alone hate crime Bill that explicitly identifies hate crimes as distinct offences and provides appropriate legal provisions to deal with them effectively. Such legislation would send a clear signal that our society stands united against hate and intolerance. <BR /> <BR />A stand-alone hate crime Bill could also serve several crucial purposes. It could provide a comprehensive definition of hate crime, which would ensure that no act goes unpunished.”
“Whether we like it or not, hate crime has become a prevalent issue in our communities, and it is high time that we took concrete steps to combat that menace. By enacting dedicated hate crime legislation, we can send a strong message that intolerance and discrimination will not be tolerated. <BR /> <BR />Hate crimes are not just ordinary crimes. That speaks to some of the references earlier that we should just allow other types of legislation to cover off here. They are not ordinary crimes. They target individuals on the basis of their race, religion, ethnicity, sexual orientation, gender identity or disability. Those acts of hatred not only harm the victims personally but create a climate of fear and divisiveness in communities.”
“The issues that are being raised refer to actions that the PSNI took when the Policing Board was in situ and had responsibility for it. Asking the Policing Board to do the investigation is therefore a case of asking it to mark its own homework. That is why having an independent inquiry to determine the issues is in the interests of everyone, because it would remove the sense of that happening.”
“It was a government Department, so, yes, it would be a government responsibility.”
“Does the Member agree with me? In Hunter's Mill in my constituency, the practice was that the buildings did not need to be piled because of the flood maps, but now, many years after they were built, those maps show that they are on a floodplain. The houses, the sewerage system and the road network are all giving way, and the residents cannot sell their houses because people are not able to get mortgages. While that may not necessarily be a case of defective building materials, decisions that have been taken have left those people in a hopeless situation. We would like clarity about whether the Bill might provide some hope for them as well.”
“I also welcome the Minister back to his post. Climate change is delivering adverse weather events, such as the floods that we saw in Downpatrick. Is the Minister open to applications from the council to help promote and support footfall, which has been obliterated since that event last year?”
“I thank the Minister for his statement. I welcome him to his post and wish him well. As the Opposition, we continue our offer to work constructively with the Minister in his work. <BR /> <BR />The trusts are under serious pressure. As mentioned, the chief executive officers have today warned of catastrophic impacts with potential impacts on bed closures, operating lists, domiciliary care and nursing care packages. Is a plan being devised by the Minister, with his Executive colleagues, to deliver the finance that is needed to make sure that our trusts are fit for purpose going forward?”
“I welcome the appointment of Sheila Darling as the chair of the Middletown centre. I worked with her on the board of governors of a school of which she was the principal. I know that she will deliver and help to support an expert service there. <BR /> <BR />Will there be specific support for groups to help them participate in the North/South youth exchange programmes? Having delivered programmes for 10 years on that front, I know that they are beneficial for communities in the North and in the South.”
“Absolutely. That is what will happen with the circular nature of the Budget unless we break that circle and make sure that we are not creating more problems as we try to solve them. Domiciliary care is an example of where, if we do not intervene, we will not fix problems and will put pressures elsewhere. <BR /> <BR />It is not raining here. I am not getting soaked, but I can hear the distant rumble that things are going to get better, but not with this Budget.”
“<BR /> <BR />Once again, we see a Budget that papers over the cracks rather than being a planned and strategic investment and dealing with the root causes of our problems. With this Budget, people will get sicker; poverty will not be challenged; inequalities in society will not be addressed; the school estate will continue to crumble; potholes will increase and get deeper; farmers will get little support; the housing crisis will continue; and many in the public sector will continue not to get a fair day's wage. With all that, the Executive still expect the House to support the Budget.”
“One of the saddest elements that will remain consistent is that Ministers will continue to work in silos — protect thy budget and rob everyone else's — if they hang around long enough to be able to do that. That is not the form of joined-up government that a responsible and mature democracy requires. <BR /> <BR />The London Government are evidently not providing enough for the North's Budget. As ever, the Executive prove that they are incapable of managing those funds fairly and equitably. Once again, Ministers have displayed immature, childish and selfish approaches to budgets, refusing to work with others and merely trying to deliver their own work. A detailed Programme for Government would help to address that, but we are still waiting, because we have to remember this: "Let's not be in a hurry".”
“I want to see a change in policy that means that we will see investment in public services here and a recognition of the desperate state that we have been left in through the poor management of public funds by Executives. I truly believe that only a Labour Government will deliver that and that defeating the Tories will be paramount. Turning up in Westminster to boot them out will be a critical task. Finance Minister, others will have to do that for you, because your colleagues refuse to turn up to kick the Tories out. <BR /> <BR />Over the last period, we have heard of fiscal floors, fiscal ceilings and fiscal promises, but, when I look at the landscape of the finances that are presented in this Budget, I fear that little will change.”
“We know that the Tory Government have slashed the Budgets that have been made available to successive Executives over the years, but let us not hide the fact that the decision-averse political parties that have dominated those Executives have refused to take decisions unless they simply meant spending more money. Everyone knows that that policy will not work in the long term, can work only in the short term and needs to be reversed. Otherwise, that type of fiscal mismanagement simply drains the public purse. <BR /> <BR />The public purse is in a drought. There is nothing left in it, yet the bills keep mounting higher. One can only hope that the decisions that are taken for another place on 4 July will see a different type of independence, because the independence that I want to see is from austerity.”
“What will our health trusts look like after the Budget?”
“Our health trusts, for example, are being asked to make cuts like we have never seen before, with 400 fewer acute beds, 1,200 fewer staff, a million fewer hours of domiciliary care and 500 fewer care home beds.”
“What will the cuts achieve in the community and voluntary sector? It can take the money that it is given through the Health Department and turn every pound into much more money through what it can attract from other funds and the voluntary nature of its work. It can make that money go much further. However, unfortunately, all that we will do with the Budget is copper-fasten the fact that we are driving a coach and horses through that work, removing the core funding from the sector. <BR /> <BR />Sometimes, with Health, it feels that the only operation that the Executive manage to successfully deliver is that of cutting off their nose to spite their face.”
“While it was always understood that there would be no silver bullet to resolve those matters overnight, the bottom line is that, when I look at the Budget, I feel that we could do better. For example, where is the money for transformation to allow the Health Department to keep some of the money that it spends and reinvest it in the Department? Where is the cross-departmental working? Health stretches beyond the Department of Health. One only has to look at the mental health challenges that face our young people, how they face them in schools on a daily basis and the impact that that has on their education and their future. That is just one example. <BR /> <BR />What about our community and voluntary sector? One only has to look at the community and voluntary sector to see that the Budget will obliterate it.”
“We are being presented with a Budget today that, let us face it, is not going to cut it. It is not going to solve the problems that the public sector faces, and it is not going to deal with the challenges that our communities face. Speaking as our party's health spokesperson, we have seen for too long that waiting lists are getting longer and waiting times are getting longer. Every sector of our health service has attended the Health Committee and detailed how budget cuts are impacting on and resulting in poorer outcomes for people and a bleak future. <BR /> <BR />We are seeing the collapse, in places, of our primary care sector, our community pharmacy sector and our NHS dental care.”
“To do that, we will also need a Programme for Government. <BR /> <BR />We are happy to support the motion. We salute our dedicated healthcare staff for all that they do, and we send this message to the Executive: stop playing politics with workers' pay, and let us just get it done.”
“<BR /> <BR />The SDLP has always been consistent in its message that, if we are serious and responsible about delivering full pay restoration, we need to see a multi-year Budget and delivery of the transformation of our health service, because it is through that transformation that we will see savings made by the Department that it can then invest in the Department, meaning that individuals such as our junior doctors will get the additional money that they need.”
“If we truly believe in and value our junior doctors, we would make the money available so that the Department could pay them. <BR /> <BR />There are going to be picket lines tomorrow. If any Member of the parties that have supported the Budget goes and stands on those picket lines, having voted for a Budget that does not provide the money to support the pay call that the workers are making, that is also a little bit disingenuous. I hope that those who are on the picket lines tomorrow will ask any of the elected representatives there, "Are you voting for the Budget, and is it going to give us the money that we need to get our pay uplift?". If they are going to vote for the Budget, they are simply trying to curry favour by being on the picket lines.”
“I totally agree with that. If the motion simply stated that the Minister should put forward a business case, I would have no problem with that. The motion, however, goes on to state that junior doctors should be given the pay uplift that they require. It asks that the Minister work with the BMA in a meaningful way, which can only mean that junior doctors get the pay uplift that they need. If a four-party Executive are not going to give the Minister the money that he requires to do that, having this debate is a little bit disingenuous, because it is telling those junior doctors, "We are prepared to come in here and fight for you, but, by the way, there is absolutely no money to provide in order for the Minister to deliver". It is therefore a bit difficult to have that discussion.”
“<BR /> <BR />Although the SDLP supports the motion, I have some questions about transparency, given that the proposer of the motion's party supported this year's Budget at the Executive. If her party supports giving the Health Minister less than the budget that he needs to provide the pay uplift that we want to see, it is a bit like putting somebody into a fight with one hand tied behind their back. It is not a fair fight.”
“They simply have nothing left to give, and, ultimately, pay has become the tipping point for them. The question for us has to be this: what are we doing to make this place attractive to junior doctors? Of the 7% of medical students who have said that they will remain here after qualifying, what is it that they are going to stay for? Unsafe working practices, unfair pay and countless expectations. One has only to look at the verbal abuse that junior doctors take on social media for having the audacity to expect to receive a fair day's wage to see what they have to endure. I encourage anyone who says that junior doctors are paid enough to spend a day doing what they do. Walk a mile in their scrubs and then tell me that they are overpaid.”
“The motion is timely, given that strikes will take place across the North tomorrow. The work that our junior doctors do is nothing short of remarkable. Day after day, they go into our hospitals to care for some of the most vulnerable in our society. Countless expectations are placed on our junior doctors. If there are gaps in the workforce, they are expected to fill them, despite possibly having just worked a full shift. They are running from one case to the next for hours on end. As has been explained, they have detailed how, when they get an opportunity to have a break, they have to, at times, go to their car to take that break because there is nowhere appropriate for them to have it. The practices under which we expect them to work are simply not safe. <BR /> <BR />That does not even touch on what was expected of them during COVID-19.”
“We remember all those who were impacted by this scandal. I think of my constituent Brian who passed away a few weeks ago. <BR /> <BR />Meaningful counselling and specialist psychological support is of real importance to those impacted, and it is referenced in the report. Do you envisage making any of those services available to people who were impacted here?”
“Will the Minister confirm that negotiations will continue and that he will work with his Executive colleagues to find a solution so that our junior doctors can get the pay that they deserve to be able to do the work that they need to do in the health service?”
“You are the Health Minister on behalf of a four-party Executive. Are you all equally prioritising the need for rural health services to be delivered and for MDTs to be delivered? Are you receiving the support that you need from the Department of Finance?”
“Given that the Member has made a point that has been addressed by the Minister and which he has said may be tested at some point in the future, and that we are dealing with an issue that will save thousands and thousands of lives in the future, does he not feel that the length of time that he is taking to spin it for his personal political outcomes is a bit reckless and just a little bit tired, old and sick?”
“I hope that some of those other initiatives can be brought forward so that we can try to improve the overall health of our society. <BR /> <BR />In conclusion, we know that the enjoyability of smoking or vaping is outweighed by the health benefits of not doing so. For that reason, I am content to support the motion.”
“In some instances, they wanted to see restrictions going further than those in the Bill. It was an excellent example of youth participation in decision-making in this Building, which is something that I want to acknowledge and welcome. <BR /> <BR />I remind Members that we cannot debate this legislative consent motion as if it is some sort of panacea that will deliver the best possible health outcomes. Rather, it has to be seen as one of a suite of options for how we improve the health of our society. I know that the Minister is here today to fulfil his duty as Health Minister, but there are other issues, such as encouraging active travel, ensuring nitrate-free school meals and establishing greener and cleaner spaces for communities, that all Executive Ministers must live up to.”
“If we fast-forward 30 or 40 years, will we be in a scenario where a 16-year-old working in a shop has to ask a 70-year-old to produce ID to tell them whether they are 70 or 71? There could be some problems there, and, as I said, it could create a flashpoint at the point of sale. <BR /> <BR />I acknowledge and thank the Youth Assembly for the role that its members played in the Committee's consideration of the Bill when we met them. Fundamentally, given that there is that age restriction in the Bill, those young people will be the generation most impacted by it, and it was an excellent opportunity to go along, listen to their views and be assured that their views were considerable. They were almost unanimous in saying that they agree with the outworkings of the Bill.”
“The problem is that, if we make it socially unacceptable to vape — it becomes stigmatised; you go into a shop where the products have no packaging, and there is nothing to attract a person who smokes to them — I fear that it may actually prevent us from getting people off smoking. At the same time, I appreciate that we cannot have an industry that abuses that and makes vaping very attractive to children and young people. <BR /> <BR />The second concern, which my colleague mentioned earlier, is around the workability of the Bill and its enforceability. How do the Government expect this to be enforced? Will every person, regardless of age, now be asked to produce identification?”
“I know that the health benefits that I have enjoyed for the past 20-plus years since I stopped smoking far outweigh any pleasure that I got from smoking. <BR /> <BR />When it comes to vaping, the issues are somewhat more complex. E-cigarettes appeared only in the past decade or so, and the research into the health impacts of vapes is somewhat sketchy. We know that many of them contain nicotine, however. While they may help to reduce the number of cigarettes smoked, they still contain an addictive compound. It is in dealing with the e-cigarette side that I have a few concerns about the motion, and I ask the Minister to comment on those in his winding-up speech. First, if we want people to successfully transition from smoking, one of the easiest ways is for them to "step down" by moving to vapes.”
“I wanted to be able to go for a run and not have to stop halfway to try to catch my breath. I wanted to be able to go out to eat a meal and enjoy the taste of the food. This is for anybody who has never smoked: smoking robs you of that. You cannot taste the food that you eat, nor do you have the full range of your sense of smell. You are not able to smell the smells around you. When you give up smoking, within a very short period, those are some of the things that come back to you quite quickly. Fundamentally, however, I did not want to die of a smoking-related illness that I knew that I could have helped to prevent. What would all of that have been for? Simply to line the pockets of some tobacco corporation in an industry that made £10 billion in revenue last year.”
“We cannot underscore that enough. It is really obvious. The facts and figures absolutely show that there is inequality when it comes to the socio-economic backgrounds of those who smoke, and we therefore know exactly what the impact is on those people's health. It is really important that we do all that we can to remove the scourge of the impact of smoking. It has been the cause of untold numbers of deaths around the world as a result of cancer, cardiovascular disease, stroke and, indeed, diabetes. Here in Northern Ireland, over 2,300 people lose their lives as the result of smoking-related illnesses each year. <BR /> <BR />I make these comments as a former smoker. I know how hard it is to quit. It is incredibly difficult to give up smoking, but I did so because I wanted to enjoy a long and full life.”
“I thank my colleague for those remarks. They highlight, again, the complexities with this and the fact that the Bill is probably one of those that is easier on paper than it will be in action. It will cause significant issues on the high street. It will cause problems, even flashpoints, at points of sale. Thankfully, the rigorous consultation, which was implemented across the UK and to which the Minister suggested that people in the North made significant contributions, showed that an overwhelming majority, nearly 80%, wanted to see the ban. When we get that sort of feedback from people, it is incumbent upon us to act. <BR /> <BR />The dangers posed by direct and indirect smoking have been well known for some time. The industry has thrived on and been the source of addiction, which is a key driver of health inequalities.”
“The LCM that we are debating and being asked to support is part of our collective effort to create a smoke-free society, and it is welcome. The SDLP will support the motion, because, if we are serious about establishing a smoke-free society, this is an important step towards that. <BR /> <BR />I know that it is not easy legislation for some people. I know that many hold genuine concerns over the restriction of cigarettes and, indeed, vaping. There were similar views when the ban on smoking indoors was introduced in 2006. I hope that we noted that the sky did not fall in then, and it will be the same on this occasion.”
“The evidence could not be clearer: MDTs are essential for the present and future of our health service, and they must be fully rolled out. <BR /> <BR />I appeal to the Minister to provide an assessment of the impact that the Finance Minister's proposed Budget settlement will have on our ability to roll out multidisciplinary teams. We know that their roll-out is needed for the future stability of primary care here and that we must get the right finance delivered to the Department of Health in order to be able to deliver the transformation that will strengthen our health service and make sure that it is indeed fit for the future.”