Colin McGrath
South Down · Social Democratic and Labour Party · Northern Ireland
“Minister, regardless of where people stand on the exact figure, surely we can all agree that a health service cannot function without the doctors whom it trains.”
“Minister, climate change is happening, and extreme weather events are taking place. We saw that in Downpatrick a number of years ago when the town centre was ravaged by flooding, and it has taken the businesses affected many years to try to get over that flooding.”
“Minister, given that capital funding is, generally, being decimated, the extent of which may increase as a result of the Executive's not agreeing a Budget, what impact will that have on any final road maintenance strategy, and are any contingencies being put in place to manage that?”
“<BR /> <BR />Since March 2025, the parliamentary excellence programme has delivered dedicated sessions with the Executive Office on the strategic framework and its delivery plan, enhancing Members’ understanding of the cross-government approach and their role in scrutiny, legislation and constituency engagement.”
“<BR /> <BR />More broadly, the Assembly Commission supports Members and Committees in carrying out their scrutiny functions, including in relation to the Executive Office’s work on that framework.”
“As the Member mentioned, one example is the Assembly's Women's Caucus, which has a particular focus on supporting women in public life and highlighting the increasing challenges that women face in the digital sphere, including online abuse.”
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“It just does not feel like the right way in which to do things that, several weeks after the decision has been made and implemented and people's daily lives have been impacted on, we then get the opportunity to come to the Chamber and have that discussion. <BR /> <BR />During COVID-19, Departments spent almost £5 billion on various initiatives, with almost £1·6 billion being spent by the Department of Health. If those powers were not in place and we were spending that level of money, I suspect that we would have many deliberations in the Chamber and much discussion in Committees on how that level of money would be spent. We were in a different place then, and those decisions were taken quickly as a result of having those powers.”
“Our constituents were on the phone with us and sending us emails, telling us that they did not like what was happening. The majority accepted that there was a reason for it, yet we are now in this state. <BR /> <BR />In 2023, the World Health Organization downgraded the global pandemic; it is no longer a pandemic that we face. It said that it no longer qualifies as a global emergency. The question has to be this: if we are not facing a global emergency, why are we looking to extend emergency powers? Think about those powers. They mean that a decision that impacts on everybody could be taken in a room and enacted, probably that very same day, and it would be weeks before we got an opportunity to discuss it or debate it in the Chamber.”
“This is a difficult motion to support. Time and time again, all of us, from all parties, stood in the Chamber when these regulations were brought forward, and we all said that they were anti-democratic and against the normal process. However, we accepted that we were in a worldwide pandemic and that the regulations were therefore necessary. We got that then. We understood what we were facing at that stage. It was quite clear. However, now, we are where we are today. It is March 2024. In around two weeks' time, it will be four years since that night when a whole raft of regulations was enacted that had a serious impact on people's freedom, their freedom of movement and their ability to gather. It seriously impacted on people's lives.”
“It is at the other end of the scale and has lots of funding and work put into it by clubs and members, but it is volunteers who work in athletics clubs across the North who deliver Jimmy's 10K in my area. There is so much goodwill from the people there. Given the large numbers that it attracts into towns such as Downpatrick, it is important that we recognise the contribution that volunteers make. I pay tribute to everyone at East Down Athletics Club and those who participated in and supported Jimmy's 10K yesterday. Most of all, I want to highlight those tireless volunteers, without whom such events would not take place.”
“I have a particular affinity with the event. It is named after my godfather, who passed away a number of years ago but helped to deliver many athletic programmes in that club. Now, the event is held annually and attracts up to 1,500 people to Downpatrick as part of the St Patrick's Day celebrations, St Patrick's Day, of course, being celebrated this weekend, on Sunday, and Downpatrick being the centre for all those activities. Such events showcase how we can bring together the volunteers in our society and communities. They put in the hard work, for which they are often unrecognised, and deliver such slick and professional events. <BR /> <BR />Of course, in my constituency of South Down, the Irish Open is approaching.”
“It certainly makes my 32-minute 5K look not very special at all. There were also Catherine O'Connor of East Down Athletics Club, Ollie Hanna and Cormac Leheny, who won the relay race, and runners from Newcastle Athletics Club and Ballydrain Harriers, who won the male and female team prizes.”
“I rise to support the many tireless and committed volunteers who work across our communities to deliver sporting and athletic events, and I pay special tribute to the volunteers at and, indeed, the participants in Jimmy's 10K yesterday in Downpatrick. The race was won in a truly remarkable time by young Robbie Hagen, who was a member of a youth centre that I formerly worked in. He managed to get round the 10K in about 30 minutes.”
“During the recent flooding in Downpatrick, we found it incredibly difficult to get through to Roads Service. NI Water has a direct helpline for flooding: if you ring the flood line, you get through to a centre somewhere that can at least take the information. However, it is difficult to get through to Roads Service, and, out of hours, it is almost impossible. Does the Minister have any intention of developing an out-of-hours number for elected representatives to contact Roads Service?”
“Those examples are from places where assistance is provided. Does the Member agree that, while the debate is welcome, it is just a debate and that we need to see the Minister committing, in his remarks, to coming back quickly with detailed recommendations so that we can help families?”
“Mr Deputy Speaker, I am being interrupted here. I am sorry, I am not giving way. <BR /> <BR />We heard from the Minister that people have waited too long for the pay award in 2023-24, but that has been in no small part because of the contribution of parties collapsing the institutions. <BR /> <BR />I hope that Members will support the motion and be part of the positive change that we want to see in this shared home place. It is time for that change; that time is now. With so many swipes at us as an Opposition today, I look forward to seeing everyone in the Chamber voting to support public-sector pay.”
“— when they play the player and not the ball. I thank my colleague Cara Hunter for highlighting the fact that lower pay rips families and workers from —”
“That would be true public-sector pay reform. <BR /> <BR />I will take a quick look at some of the remarks made during the debate. "Blame the Tories" — as ever, they blame the Tories even though they took some of the decisions. It was remarked that it was a job for all politicians to resolve. It is for the Executive to resolve the pay for the public sector here. To hear that there is some money, but not enough, is not going to be comforting for public-sector workers. Time and again we heard that the biggest impact on public-sector pay was the collapse of these institutions, which only two parties brought down. <BR /> <BR />Of course, there were Mr Frew's contributions, which were typically drab and childish. Those who fear what is being said know that they are losing the game —”
“To the public-sector workers, the grafters of our community, I say this: when a Member of an Executive party complains about the amount that you, as a public-sector worker, are being paid and say that it is a disgrace, remember that they set your wages, and, time and again, they set them too low. Then, when they allowed the collapse of these institutions, it was the Tories who set the wages. <BR /> <BR />We must remember other things. RHI got sorted. The social investment fund got paid. Pet projects were developed and funded, but public-sector wages were not. If any of them tell you that your current pay level is too low, remind them that it is because they set it too low. Tell them to wipe the crocodile tears from their eyes and demand that pay parity is locked in for the future so that it cannot diverge again.”
“We saw already today who voted for the opportunity for reform and who voted against it. It is worth noting that those who voted against reform are likely to be the ones who will be complaining in the future if there is any collapse and about the impact of that on public-sector pay. <BR /> <BR />Significant pay divergence, which is the opposite of pay parity, occurred when there was no Executive — also, shamelessly, when there actually was an Executive. Our nurses, doctors, teachers, civil servants and others have been forced to work here for less, doing the same jobs as those in other places. That is totally unfair.”
“Time and time again, people have said that it is London that needs to take the decisions, yet, every time that you speak to it, London says that it is up to the parties here to take the decisions. We should start by taking the decision here that we want to see reform, and then, I hope, change will follow. <BR /> <BR />It is time to put an end to failure. Addressing the issue of public-sector pay is inherently tied to the reform of these institutions. We cannot and must not divorce poor public-sector pay from the collapse of these institutions. That is why we, as the Opposition, sequenced today's motions.”
“That is the same Secretary of State who has proven himself to act against the wishes of people here, with no understanding of what life here is like.”
“Absolutely. We hear time and time again that the Tories are the big, bad beast, yet, for five of the past seven years, we have left them in charge. We have let them take the decisions. We have let them put their ideology on our public-sector workers. Then what do Members do? They complain that the Tories have done that. <BR /> <BR />We demand that reform begin now. We are under no illusions, however, that the reform that we seek in order to make good for the people of Northern Ireland has to be made here, not in London. Just one month in for these institutions, we have had a party leader — an Executive Minister — say that the Secretary of State, who is currently polishing his CV and having his P45 drawn up, needs to do the heavy lifting on reform.”
“<BR /> <BR />Our teachers, too, working in classrooms right across this place, more often than not take work home with them in the evenings and purchase their own resources, because of their passion for teaching, instilling knowledge in our young people and forging leaders for the future. There are even principals who went out and bought toilet rolls for their school because the school budget had run out. For those public-sector workers, we must see public-sector pay reform. Whether you are a refuse collector, a consultant, a teacher or a cleaner — whichever public-sector role you play — you have been let down by these institutions, by Executive after Executive and by collapse after collapse, and that needs to change.”
“To set that in a specific context, although the amount that we pay our healthcare staff has eroded over the past 10 years, the amount that, for example, we expect them to pay for a house has skyrocketed above the rate of inflation. In 2012, the average house cost 3·7 times the salary of a top band-5 nurse. It is now five times that salary. <BR /> <BR />Let us think of our domiciliary carers. Those heroes are out and about in our community providing a lifeline for so many, but they are grossly underpaid. Forcing them to pay for their petrol and, at times, equipment tells those key public-sector workers that this and previous Executives do not care about them. For them, we need to see public-sector pay reform.”
“It highlights the importance of having the Opposition here in the Assembly, even though one Member took to Twitter last week to refer to the Opposition as an irrelevance. It is time for reform. The need for reform is evidenced so clearly by the matter of pay. Since 2010, our nurses have suffered a year-on-year real-terms reduction in pay, so much so that experienced nurses are being paid, in real terms, the same amount for five days of work now as they were being paid for four days of work in 2010. Grade-5 nurses here can earn between £27,000 and £33,000. Meanwhile, in the South, they can earn between €33,000 and €50,000. What about our doctors? In the South, their wage can range from €102,000 to €121,000, which is almost a third more than they get here.”
“I welcome the opportunity to wind on the debate. It is an important one for many people. It shows the important role of an Opposition. It is not about just shouting from the sidelines or being opposed to the Executive for the sake of being opposed; this has allowed us to highlight the issues that are critical to people right across this place. Surely, after more than a decade of stop-go politics, it is time for change. Stop-go politics does not serve anyone's interests. It does not deliver positive outcomes for the public. It has been effective in diminishing people's trust in politics, damaging public services and delivering a decade of pay erosion for those in our public sector. <BR /> <BR />Today's business is important.”
“Given that the grant is core to the work that they do and to their ability to draw down additional funds to help people in our community, does the Minister intend to write to the Finance Minister, specifically on this issue, to ensure that additional funding is given for those groups?”
“Junior doctors are telling us that their pay has diverged from that in other places across these islands by 30%. Does the Minister believe that our junior doctors are worth 30% less than their colleagues elsewhere?”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Business Committee members received an email on Friday afternoon at 3.00 pm, indicating that there will be no ministerial response to the Opposition motion on Executive reform, which we are about to debate. Given that the motion clearly asks the Executive Office to take action, I ask for your ruling on whether the avoidance of the debate by the First Minister, the deputy First Minister and the junior Ministers, all of whom are present in the Building, is in order.”
“As already referenced, we are only a couple of heavy rain days away from floods again in the future, so we need to see that review that is being carried out by the Department for Infrastructure, and we need to see it ASAP. If there are changes to be made to the tidal bridge, to the banks or to dredging, those need to happen before businesses are left next autumn or winter in exactly the same position of being left for months and months and months with no help or assistance. Do we welcome this money? Yes. Is it timely? No, it is too late, but let us get it out to the businesses that need it.”
“We need to get that money out to them, but we also need to do a review so that, in the future, if these things happen again in other places, it will not take four or five months before a pound goes into somebody's pocket to try to help them to be able to get over something that has completely wrecked their business or their home. <BR /> <BR />We also have the scheme where money can be released automatically from councils to help people in their homes, but there is no similar scheme for businesses. That was rejected when my colleague brought it to the Executive a number of years ago. In places such as Downpatrick, we know that there is the potential for the flooding to happen again.”
“They had to try to get through the Christmas period on £7·5 grand. They are trying to pay wages on £7·5 grand. They are trying to take some money themselves on £7·5 grand. Four months later, we are opening a scheme. <BR /> <BR />The British Government — the Northern Ireland Office — announced £15 million back in December. The Civil Service announced £10 million in December. It then appeared that the £10 million was part of that £15 million. Then the scheme was about to be announced by the Northern Ireland Office at the end of January or the start of February. That was delayed, and here we are at the end of February announcing the scheme that will open, hopefully, and be sorted out in the next few weeks. These businesses have been waiting and waiting and waiting, and we are where we are.”
“Like others in the Chamber who stood in those streets over those days, I know that, for the first couple of days, it was lonely, because no officials from any Department or agency were there to help us. That, I feel, contributed to the additional impact. <BR /> <BR />Although we have the Economy Minister here, we need to see a whole-Executive response so that if flooding recurs in the future, there will be a much quicker response that helps people in their time of need. We are looking for financial resources, and it might be unpopular to say this, but it is about time. For four months, businesses have been left with very little help. They are losing their entire livelihood, and, to date, four months later, they have been given £7·5 grand. They are trying to get their businesses open and running again on £7·5 grand.”
“I welcome the opportunity to take part in the Adjournment debate. What we saw last November was horrendous. It was devastation. At the time, we used the term "apocalyptic", because that is what it felt like. Many parts of South Down and beyond were impacted, but, when you have spent nearly 50 years growing up in a town, it is terrible to see it being absolutely wrecked in front of your eyes. It was terrible mostly because of the pain that you could see in the eyes of the town's business people, because they could see their futures being ruined in front of them. Being powerless as we stood alongside them, because there was nothing much that we could physically do at that time, was very difficult. What we do get is an opportunity afterwards to reflect and ask what things could be done differently to help people much more quickly.”
“I completely echo the Member's comments about the need for the Minister to fight for this. I politely say to the Minister that I do not think that firing a letter off to the Home Secretary will cut it. A letter will be dealt with in a correspondence department in the Home Office, may not even be seen by the Home Secretary, and it may well be responded to by a junior Minister who will sign a letter. I hope that the Minister will take on board how passionate all parties are about this and make a phone call to try to get a meeting with the Home Secretary to push the issue. It is a major issue, and a letter will be batted away. Most of us have already written letters, and the responses have not been up to much.”
“Does the Member agree then that, before Brexit, things were better?”
“We will support that, and I hope that the amendment, which will help with fish-processing staffing, will also be accepted today.”
“An argument can be made to the Home Office that the fish-processing sector is seasonal and should be added to that list so that the immigration exemptions can be put in place and the staff can be drawn down. For some in the fish-processing sector, that will be the difference between surviving or not. As was highlighted at the start of the debate, we have a thriving sector. We want to support the sector. We want to encourage and grow it, but fishing processors cannot do that, if they have one hand tied behind their back. <BR /> <BR />I hope that the Minister will accept the amendment and that he will be able to have direct interaction with Home Office officials to see whether we can get fishing processors added to that list of seasonal workers. The motion talks about the development of fishing infrastructure and sites.”
“There are difficulties there because the fish-processing sector has not been added to the Home Office list of seasonal workers. That means that, to attract staff into the processing sector, they have to navigate the new immigration laws. Again, why do we have new immigration laws? It is because of Brexit. Brexit resulted in new immigration laws, and those immigration laws are punishing our fish-processing sector. I hope that the Minister will speak to that in his remarks later, but we have to try our best to impress upon the Home Office the fact that there is seasonality to the fish-processing sector. People in that sector do not go out and fish 365 days a year across all the various fish that are available; they pick specific elements of the market and work with that. There is seasonality in the sector that they choose.”
“<BR /> <BR />I genuinely mean this and not in a manner to shame people, but you have to be able to draw a connection: you went out to fishing communities and asked them to vote for Brexit and then Brexit had a massive impact on their ability to do their job and they are now suffering. They look to these institutions to try to get some support, but the institutions were collapsed. For people in the fishing industry, it has been blow after blow. I hope that, through the programme, we will hear from the Minister that there will be certainty going forward and that there will be speed in going forward with these programmes, so that the fishing communities and those who have their businesses in the industry are able to progress their work. <BR /> <BR />We have also referenced — our amendment speaks to it — the fish-processing sector.”
“It is worth noting that having stability in these institutions will allow stability and delivery of programmes such as this, which will help our communities. <BR /> <BR />The second failure, of course, that continues to linger over this place is Brexit. That has had a serious impact. The fishing industry is a great example of where Brexit went wrong. They were promised that there would be some sort of panacea for them and that their future would be golden because Brexit would help them to take back control. Of course, that has not happened; in fact, there has been a downturn in some of the capacity in fishing as a result of Brexit. The uncertainty that Brexit has brought to all industries has had a massive impact.”
“Thank you for highlighting the fact that it extends beyond the three ports for the fishing industry. Many inland fishery opportunities are available and are facing their own crises, and it is important that we recognise that today. <BR /> <BR />The fishery and seafood development programme has twice fallen victim to political failure. The first failure is the fact that these institutions have been collapsed for five of the last seven years. That really speaks to the uncertainty that I mentioned in the sector. To those in the sector, it feels as though it has been stop-go, stop-go, stop-go. Will the money come; how much will it be; who will deliver it? Just when they feel that they are getting close to having some answers, one or other of the parties here collapses the institutions, and we go into deep freeze for a couple of years.”
“We know the important and valuable contribution that our fishing industry makes to our local and wider community. For example, in 2021 alone, the Northern Ireland fleet landed some 46 kilotons of fish, which was worth £52 million. That is around 6% of the total UK value. It is a very important and large sector. Delivery of the programme could see that being enhanced and developed and more jobs being delivered into those fishing ports. There are then the spin-offs that come into the communities if you have a thriving port, and many other industries will develop as a result.”
“You will know, Mr Speaker, the importance of the fishing and seafood development programme report, but there are many who do not. They do not realise how big and how important a sector this is and that we have to do what we can to ensure investment, harbour development and job sustainability. The report identified that development could take place in Kilkeel, Ardglass and Portavogie, as referenced today. We are talking about a multi, multi, multimillion-pound development for those ports.”
“Getting this opportunity to have a conversation about the infrastructure and capital investment around our ports is exceptionally important, given that there has not been a substantial investment in them in such a long time. Also, this programme that we are talking about has been kicking about for quite a number of years, and there is a lot of uncertainty in the sector as it tries to get the information about where we are. <BR /> <BR />Before speaking to the amendment, I extend to you, Mr Speaker, the appreciation of many in the sector of the work that you did previously as an agriculture and fisheries Minister. They felt that you understood the sector and tried to progress it, and we hope that we can build on that going forward.”
“Some 97% of junior doctors balloted voted for the strike action. They have suffered 16 years of pay erosion, which has resulted in a 30% loss of pay. Just this week, junior doctors in Scotland were awarded a 12% pay rise. Is the Minister assured that the Department of Finance has given him the correct amount of money to enable him to bring a resolution to the issue this year and into the future?”
“Minister, your permanent secretary chaired the response to the floods last November on behalf of the Departments. Many businesses are desperately waiting for their £100,000. That is to come from another Department, but are you aware of when it will happen? They are crying out for that scheme to open.”
“It is about making sure that we drive down those lists by using any opportunity that there is and any weapon at our disposal. People cannot be on waiting lists for any longer than they currently are.”
“We need to see what the changes will be, and, crucially, we need to hear what the benefits will be. The public need to be engaged with and informed so that they can see that the loss of a service from one medical centre, the gaining of another service from somewhere else and the inclusion of a different or changed one will mean better services, better delivery, shorter waiting times, improved outcomes and happier, healthier people. Then the waiting lists will come down. If this is an effective, proper, legitimate scrutiny Chamber, we will never again let waiting lists get to the lengths that they have.”
“We have not reached that target in 12 years: 12 years. Another example, which people probably do not think is at the top of the list, is dental waiting times. Before we talk about dental waiting times, let us talk about accessing a dentist. Many in our community struggle to get a dentist with whom to register. They struggle to get an appointment, and if they are NHS, forget about it. What is the problem? It is that we do not fund our dental sector properly. It literally costs dentists to deliver NHS work. Who would go to work if it would cost them to do their job? That is not a real-world model. It is not working, and when it is not working, it is people who suffer. <BR /> <BR />We therefore need to see a transformation plan, with a budget, an action plan and a timescale for implementation of that transformation.”
“Just a few months ago, 4,000 people were waiting on a domiciliary care package. How many of them lay in hospital when they did not have to? They could not get home because there was no care package. That backlog goes out of the ward, down into the emergency department, out into the ambulances that are parked outside and ends up with people dialling 999 but not being able to get an ambulance to come and help them. The backlog has a chain effect, and we have to break that chain. To do that, investment is needed. It means recognising and valuing our workers in domiciliary care so that it becomes a career that attracts people. <BR /> <BR />Our cancer waiting times are also horrific, with many of the established targets not being met. Breast cancer patients is just one example. The target is for 100% of referrals to be seen within 14 days.”
“That is where our amendment comes in to help, by explicitly calling on the Health Minister to re-fund the cross-border healthcare directive to allow patients to utilise hospital and health services that are often closer to their home than the places to which they have to travel. The scheme was successful and was used by hundreds, if not thousands, of people. There is an opportunity for that to help. If we did something right in the past, let us do it again. <BR /> <BR />The second prong of the approach that is required is the need to sort out the mess in order to see true and meaningful transformation. It is only through transformation of our health service that we will ensure that waiting lists never again grow to such lengths. We must transform so that patient flow improves.”
“That will happen only by asking our already overstretched staff to do more, which is not possible because many of them have been driven to the edge, or by using our private sector. It is there, and we will have to use it, but let us not fool ourselves: such places are often staffed by medics who work in the NHS as well. How many of our constituents have said, "I went to the doctor, and he said that I cannot be seen by a consultant for another six or eight months, but he told me that, if I go privately, I can be seen next week."? Often, it is the same consultant. <BR /> <BR />We need to clear the backlog, and we will have to use the private sector.”
“It is a bit of an embarrassment that, of all the parties that could have tabled a motion on the state of our health service, the party opposite — it collapsed the Government here for the past two years, paralysing our officials, preventing them from managing the health service properly and causing the environment that has driven up the waiting lists — has done so. If you cannot draw the line between inactivity, having no Executive and no Government, and the driving up of our waiting lists, that shows a major disconnect from reality. <BR /> <BR />We are where we are, however. We have waiting lists, and, as I mentioned, a two-pronged approach is required. We must seek a cash injection that will allow the backlog to be cleared. The figures need to be driven down, down, down.”
“<BR /> <BR />On the issue of political inactivity and having no Assembly, no Executive and no Minister of Health, I am somewhat surprised that the party opposite is raising the issue of waiting lists, given that it collapsed the Government in this place for the past two years. An Executive partner collapsed it three years prior to that. I am in no doubt that that hiatus, or double hiatus, saw many people die while they were on a waiting list. They will have died with their health issues unaddressed, left in pain, suffering and a burden on their family, because their health issues could not be addressed in a timely manner.”