Colin McGrath
South Down · Social Democratic and Labour Party · Northern Ireland
“Minister, regardless of where people stand on the exact figure, surely we can all agree that a health service cannot function without the doctors whom it trains.”
“Minister, climate change is happening, and extreme weather events are taking place. We saw that in Downpatrick a number of years ago when the town centre was ravaged by flooding, and it has taken the businesses affected many years to try to get over that flooding.”
“Minister, given that capital funding is, generally, being decimated, the extent of which may increase as a result of the Executive's not agreeing a Budget, what impact will that have on any final road maintenance strategy, and are any contingencies being put in place to manage that?”
“<BR /> <BR />Since March 2025, the parliamentary excellence programme has delivered dedicated sessions with the Executive Office on the strategic framework and its delivery plan, enhancing Members’ understanding of the cross-government approach and their role in scrutiny, legislation and constituency engagement.”
“<BR /> <BR />More broadly, the Assembly Commission supports Members and Committees in carrying out their scrutiny functions, including in relation to the Executive Office’s work on that framework.”
“As the Member mentioned, one example is the Assembly's Women's Caucus, which has a particular focus on supporting women in public life and highlighting the increasing challenges that women face in the digital sphere, including online abuse.”
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“The maternity hospital was due to cost £223 million, and it is now £590 million. That is what the delays have cost. We need to find out exactly what it was that has caused the problems and how much it is going to cost us to fix them.”
“In 2019, the Northern Ireland Audit Office told us about 11 flagship projects that were not completed and that were massively out of control. It told us that the children's hospital had a £130 million overspend and had overrun by five years. It told us that the maternity hospital was six years overdue and £17 million over budget at that stage, but that was not enough for there to be a collapse of these institutions twice during that period of time and not enough to be able to bring us back. I do hope that it brings home the message that, if you collapse these institutions, it causes problems with major projects and major developments on the ground that, undoubtedly, will end up costing money. Maybe this will bring it back. The children's hospital was due to cost £57 million, and it is now £97 million.”
“The independent inquiry needs to be chaired by somebody outside the Department and outside the Executive to be able to give us the absolute answers that we need. As a snapshot of where we are at present, it is a monumental government gaffe that is costing the taxpayer hundreds of millions of pounds. That seems to be the one consistent thing that we do here: when there is a mess-up, it is hundreds of millions of pounds that we overspend and do not account for and that has to be cut from budgets, meaning that other services are deprived. <BR /> <BR />It is disingenuous to lay this entirely at the feet of the Health Minister, making him the sacrificial lamb for the Executive's collective failure. We should also be conscious that the delays and spiralling costs of the maternity project are not an isolated incident.”
“I ask the Minister to commit that the issues that Members raise today, such as PsA, are the only problems that there are with those projects and that there are no problems that we do not yet know about. Are there other issues that the Minister might need to give some oxygen to? Issues that might relate to some other problems that there are. I agree that there should be an independent inquiry into what has happened with those projects. We need to know all the issues and we need to know the causes, the expected cost to remedy them and when they will be resolved. <BR /> <BR />It is worth acknowledging that the Ulster Unionists have the Ministry at the minute, the DUP had the Ministry previously and Sinn Féin has had the Ministry during the lifetime of what we are discussing as the contributions to these problems.”
“We now know that nothing will commence on the site until next year and that it will not be operational before 2030, which is 10 years later than it should have been. That is nothing short of an embarrassment. The maternity unit, meanwhile, was also meant to be state of the art and provide 16 delivery rooms, 68 beds and an early pregnancy unit. The maternity unit cannot yet open, following the discovery by the contractor of pseudomonas aeruginosa (PsA) in the unit's pipes, and further repairs are required. Nobody really knows when that unit will open either. Yet again, what another utter embarrassment. <BR /> <BR />Are those the only issues? Are there other problems in those buildings that we are not yet aware of?”
“I will make the sole contribution on behalf of the Opposition, although, so far, you would not think it by the way that our Executive parties are lifting lumps out of each other when it comes to yet another disaster and yet another discussion about how huge sums of money have been spent in a way that raises eyebrows and, ultimately, drains our public services and public sector of money that could be spent on other matters. <BR /> <BR />When first proposed, the children's hospital was sold as being state of the art, providing, as other representatives have said, services that would include: 155 inpatient beds; a 25-bed programme treatment unit; 10 operating theatres; a day procedure unit; and a paediatric emergency unit with 10 beds. Those are all things that are absolutely critically required.”
“I welcome the excellent announcement, which builds on the work of the former Education Minister in ensuring that teaching CPR is included in the curriculum. There was quite a battle with the Minister before that and a threat of a private Member's Bill, but we got there and are building on it now, which is excellent. <BR /> <BR />I have often reminded Education Ministers that they are not just Ministers for schools but Ministers in charge of youth services. Will the Minister consider offering the scheme to full-time youth centres so that we can continue its spread? There is not a huge number of them, but it is always good to include them in the education family.”
“Those are just a few of the measures that will not cost tremendous sums of money or consultancy fees but could help to safeguard the future of Downpatrick. We have seen how Lough Neagh has been allowed to fall to rack and ruin. The people of Downpatrick demand this of the Executive, and the SDLP echoes the call: do not let that happen to our River Quoile.”
“In June, we were told that it would take another eight months to produce a report that may indicate what needs to be done and that, in some instances, any measures may take up to eight to 10 years to be implemented. What state will our county town be in in 2033, if we have to wait that long for things to be done? How many of our home-grown businesses will be around then? <BR /> <BR />The people of Downpatrick love and know their town. They tell us that the riverbed of the Quoile has been allowed to build up with silt and sediment and that, in instances such as last autumn, the water simply had no place to go. The pipe network around the town must be inspected regularly to ensure that it is fit for purpose.”
“That was evidenced most clearly last year when we witnessed the horrendous floods that hit the town with such brutal and unstoppable force. Those of us who were on the ground that day orchestrated what was initially and largely a community rescue operation, whether that was to help people stuck in cars that were submerged in water or to salvage family-run business stock. The aftermath of the floodwaters reflected, in many ways, Downpatrick at its very best. <BR /> <BR />There followed many questions as to how the waters rose so quickly and what could be done to prevent it from happening again, yet what we have been treated to is a report that essentially said that the town flooded because of lots of rain.”
“I speak today for the many people across my constituency of South Down and my home town of Downpatrick who have a deep-seated love for the Quoile river and are committed to ensuring that it is preserved for future generations. Those of us who were born in the town or those who have chosen the town as their home will have many memories of time spent at the Quoile river, enjoying walks alongside it, fishing for pike of unparalleled quality and size or even enjoying the scenic views that are so identifiable with our town. <BR /> <BR />A close-knit community and the county town of Down, Downpatrick has suffered in recent years as Belfast has grown and expanded outwards and other towns have developed their home-grown tourist products.”
“It was done for a number of years, and it helped to encourage a wee bit more footfall in the city centres and town centres in the evening because people were living there, rather than them just being work-based areas. <BR /> <BR />There was reference to the carrot and the stick. As I said, the problem may be that those are the wrong way around. There has been too much carrot and not enough stick. That is why we are where we are with so many of the town centres left languishing. I accept the Minister's saying that there were no data sets from which to get the information to deliver some of what we have asked for. Let us do it. Let us not always just look and say, "We cannot do that". That does not reflect a forward-looking Executive that will try to deliver for our local communities, which is what the SDLP wants to do.”
“We in Downpatrick are suffering from that lack of footfall because people have changed their shopping habits, so we need to try to reprioritise how we deliver things in the high street. However, that will not happen if big empty buildings are left lying for years. <BR /> <BR />Buildings on two of the corners of the main junction in Downpatrick are lying empty. One has been lying empty, doing nothing, for decades, nearly. It is right in the heart of our town, so if something could be done to try to incentivise those who own the land to do something with that building, it could help to turn around and repurpose the high street, which we also need to do. <BR /> <BR />There were some references to schemes such as Living Over the Shop. We did that successfully in Downpatrick. I am sure that it would also work in Belfast.”
“Ministers should be out working with their colleagues to see whether there is a way to help regenerate and revitalise areas. Having an amendment that says that Ministers should be meeting and trying to help areas feels like we are just asking them to do their job. It simply asks for a "review", so I feel that the amendment is a bit weak. It does not have that punch behind it that would help to bring some sort of resolution to the problems that we can see. <BR /> <BR />There were references in the debate to there being a number of new issues to consider. Those include COVID-19 and what has happened as a result of that and the reprofiling of high streets, which we are all aware of. That is happening everywhere, not just in Belfast. My colleague from South Down referenced that as well.”
“The place at 2 Royal Avenue has been developed into a venue for arts and culture purposes, and it is providing those services. A building that was run down has been taken and turned into something that can be used for the good of the community, so there is an incentive for public bodies to do that type of work. <BR /> <BR />The amendment references a number of arterial routes. Mind you, you could find a common thread in the amendment, because if you look at the routes that are referenced, you will see that they may be from a particular side of the city or cover particular parts of the community. Much more could have been made of the amendment. The amendment tries to water down what we are suggesting. By simply highlighting an issue, it merely asks Ministers to actually do their job.”
“I would say that the Department should get its finger out and do something about it. Really, it should be down to that. It is down to Departments and public bodies. They should be doing something about it. They should be leading by example and actually using what they can in the likes of, for example, 2 Royal Avenue.”
“I am really short of time, so please be quick.”
“Tools are at the Executive's disposal that can help drive the regeneration of the city centre and maybe leave a more positive and lasting legacy. <BR /> <BR />We referenced the fact that a vacant land tax would help to incentivise people to take up premises. People are saying, "We do not think that that would do anything". Look at what not doing it has done. It is not helping. The place is not improving by people doing nothing, sitting back, not helping and saying "Ach, sure, maybe the council will get around to it. Maybe the Executive will get together so that all the Departments will do something." Those places have been lying like that for years and years, and they have not been improving. Maybe we need to think about doing something different and doing something in a different way to try and help.”
“It has been like that for a long time. It is a grim part of the town, and the difficulty is that, if you have a business in that area, you are impacted on by the fact that the area is running down continually. Nobody wants to go to that part of town. That perpetrates the issue, and the dereliction moves further and further from the site at which it started. We know that that level of decay and squalor can spread and make places less attractive. <BR /> <BR />I hope that people will see as a constructive thing the fact that we are here, discussing the matter in another Opposition day debate and talking about how we can challenge it and that we are having conversations and trying to find solutions that will help our cities and towns right across the North.”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. It would be too easy to say that the DUP looks back to people from 200 or 300 years ago to ask for their impression of how to do things today. I hope that we can get the DUP modernised and moved right up to date. <BR /> <BR />The debate has been positive in the sense that, while we have different views and opinions on the outcome, everyone has the view that they want to see Belfast and, as has been referenced, town centres across Northern Ireland being vibrant places: places that people enjoy; places where people can work; and places that work for people. We want families and others to be able to go into the town and city centres and for those to be enjoyable places in which people can spend time. <BR /> <BR />It is fairly obvious from the example of the Tribeca site that something is not working.”
“In acknowledging what has come before, the SDLP remains the most pro-Europe party in the Assembly. We have our sights set firmly on the future. As we make the case for exploiting the benefits of the Windsor framework, improving access to Erasmus and having representation in the European Parliament, the SDLP will continue to make the case that, ultimately, our best days lie ahead of us in a new, unified and reconciled Ireland that is at peace with itself and prosperous in the EU and on the wider world stage. I hope that all parties will support our motion, although I will not bank on it.”
“Sometimes the arguments that are presented are a monumental example of cutting off your nose to spite your face. It goes back to that political territory of, "No, no, no" and, "Never, never, never" while forgetting that it is actually the businesses and communities that we represent that get hurt the most. However, do not let that get in the way of your being able to stand up and make a pointless argument. <BR /> <BR />People here and in Ireland as a whole have not bought into the false promises that Farage, Johnson and their ilk made, as they know what the EU delivered to us, which was an opportunity for seamless trade and to be part of a wider international community. It was about the promotion and propagation of our peace process through many hundreds of millions of pounds of Peace moneys. It was not about Little England nationalism.”
“Thank you very much. <BR /> <BR />The motion is about the EU and our relationship with it. It is about us being able to have our voice heard where those decisions are taken so that people cannot say that their voice is not being heard. People seem to be completely averse to our having a seat at the European Parliament in order to be able to articulate our views on those laws that impact on here, which, in so doing, would enable businesses here to continue to have access both to the UK and EU markets and would remove the sense that your voice was not being heard or that you were having laws thrust upon you. If you were actually there participating and giving your views, you would be part of that process. It seems that you are not prepared to countenance that, but it would be constructive in trying to resolve the issues.”
“<BR /> <BR />Some Members highlighted the fact that the debate was simply a dry run for the Windsor framework debate. I am sorry that that has happened, because there is so much more that we could talk about. Some who mentioned that imitation was the greatest form of flattery simply rehashed their own arguments from years ago. They are simply imitating themselves by constantly discussing pro-Brexit arguments.”
“<BR /> <BR />There has been much discussion on that relationship with the EU, but we spent most of the debate talking about the democratic consent motion that is coming up. However, there is so much more to the motion. We were talking about helping young people to learn and share their lives with others across Europe. We were talking about helping our tourism industry by facilitating easier travel. We were talking about our voice being heard in a democratic fashion and about helping our farming sector and our food processors to ensure that they can access better arrangements. That was what we were trying to do, but it descended into a little bit of a farce from some people. That is unhelpful, and we do not believe that it manages to bring out the arguments that we could make.”
“Also, they promised their target audience a utopia. They promised them that everything would be great and sunny. What they delivered, however, was a wrecking ball without an operator, with more-honest politicians left to pick up the pieces. <BR /> <BR />Since the referendum vote in 2016, in acknowledging the democratic wishes of the UK as a whole, our drive, loyalty and priority has been to fight the worst excesses of Brexit and ensure that the people here — the ones whom we represent and who voted overwhelmingly to remain in Europe — would not be heinously impacted on. None of us believes that the EU is some sort of utopia. There is much about the EU that needs to be reformed, but it has always been our view that we are better placed inside that body, where such reforms can take place.”
“Thank you very much, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker. Maybe I will pledge not to wind people up but to wind up the debate and see how we get on with that. It is great to hear so many people complaining about not having enough time to participate in the debate. Maybe, if we go back to a having a smaller number of motions, more people will participate, and we will be able to use fully the time that is available. <BR /> <BR />In tabling a motion on the North's future relationship with the EU, we, as the most pro-European party in the Assembly, did so to rectify the destabilisation that was brought about as a result of Brexit. In 2016, the tactics of Farage, Johnson and the European Research Group (ERG) were effective and worked on their target audience. They sowed the seeds of division, fear and deep mistrust.”
“Thank you, Minister. Yes, a promise that was made and then broken is being replaced with another promise that the money will be forthcoming next year. It is an awful lot to ask healthcare workers to accept that. Will the Minister commit to stopping the Executive's politicking and blaming of one another for why they do not have the money and ensure that our healthcare staff, who work exceptionally hard, get the same money as everybody else on these islands, to which they are entitled.”
“We absolutely do, but what I am saying is that this motion, as proposed, which has everything lumped in and is non-binding, is not going to achieve that. What we need to see is legislation being presented in the Assembly. That is what we are supposed to be doing. We need to legislate so that we can work for the families and help those who have been impacted on. We need to legislate so that we can create a culture in our health service that will work and allow people to feel that they can step up and detail any of the problems and concerns that they have. Once again, however, what we have here is a talking shop, with no action at the end of it. If we are going to continue with talking shops, we will see no change in anything.”
“I am being attacked from all sides of the Chamber. I only have six or seven minutes. Go on ahead, because yours will be the most interesting intervention that I am about to get.”
“I thank the Member for the intervention. I agree, but if we are going to end up with a criminally sanctionable individual duty of candour, that is not an outcome that those hard-working health staff want, and it is not one that we could support.”
“Alliance do not like it when you disagree with them on a few things. I agree with you on many of these things, but when we do not fully agree with the Alliance Party, they like to lecture us. I am happy enough to continue, because it is not my intention to completely disagree with all of it. It is about the way that the motion is phrased and worded. <BR /> <BR />We acknowledge the intention of Sinn Féin's amendment, because any new system should be co-designed and co-produced with workers and the families that are affected. However, I fear that it is still predicated on the basis that there is an individual, criminally sanctionable duty of candour, which might be a bit concerning.”
“If I must. You got plenty of time, but I am happy to debate.”
“Absolutely: I could not agree more with you. You are now in that Executive, so I look forward to your being part of the Executive and part of the decision-making to ensure that that happens. I am an Opposition spokesperson: I cannot deliver that. You are in the Executive, and it is up to you to deliver that. <BR /> <BR />I want to know why we are pushing for criminal sanctions, when, three years ago, an expert-led consultation said that we could not get agreement on that.”
“Yes, because I would appreciate the extra minute.”
“Are you aware that the unintended consequences of what is being proposed would push our statutory duty beyond the rest of the UK?".”
“The proposers suggest a process in which there is an individual duty of candour, an organisational duty of candour, criminal sanctions for all and then roll those all together. That could just lead us to poor policy. <BR /> <BR />We have met doctors through the British Medical Association (BMA). We have met nurses through the RCN, and we have met UNISON, the largest union, about the motion. I would be surprised if, when developing the motion, the proposers had not also engaged with those unions, which represent tens of thousands of workers. If you had, which, I am sure, you have, as we did, you would have heard them ask, "Where does the proposed duty of candour begin and end? What do you mean by 'legally enforceable'?”
“In addressing the motion, I will set out the fact that the SDLP has always stood alongside the families who were impacted, be that by Dr Watt or the scandals at Muckamore Abbey Hospital, and alongside those impacted by hyponatraemia or other cases. The families fell victim to a litany of failures by those who were charged with their care and health. They deserved better, and many still deserve justice. I have met many of those families, and the justice that they deserve goes beyond prosecuting those responsible to changing the culture in our health system so that those who witness failings feel that they can speak truth to power. That culture is, sadly, not there at present. Unfortunately, the motion might not help with that change in culture; in some ways, it might inhibit it.”
“The Minister's statement references "embedding ... air quality targets". If a private business sprays diluted chemicals over waste and the wind transmits that, on occasion, to residential and urban areas, does that hinder our ability to meet air-quality targets?”
“I thank the junior Minister for her answer. Given that there was a reliance this year on monitoring round money to fill the gap, may we have some assurance that, next year, the full budget will be applied for up front so that the groups that work on good relations in the community can continue their work and provide their services without fear of the money being reduced and jobs being lost?”
“A farcical element of the Executive is that, when it is the Programme for Government, it is everybody together, but, when it comes to budgets, everybody is on their own to deal with what money is left. Will the Minister explain why the 5·5% pay rise for health workers was not ring-fenced so that they would definitely get that money? Is the money that is included in the attachments a 3% rise or a 5% rise, as was previously indicated by the Department of Health?”
“The public have a very simple message for the Executive: just get on with it. Do the reform that is required and make sure that there is openness and transparency, and let us build the necessary faith that the public should have in these public institutions.”
“Thank you. As the debate goes on, we learn about more and more things that have not taken place. Yet, a massive light has been shone on this, and it asks, "What are you doing? Why is this not happening?" That is a disgrace. <BR /> <BR />As I was saying, one of the greatest disgraces is seeing those who shout most loudly about reform being more than happy to trot in and take their ministerial positions, get their wages and their spads and not ask for a single commitment to reform in return, yet they will often stand up and say that it is their raison d'être. You just have to make sure that people weigh that up.”
“We know that reform is a slow burn in most places, but, my God, in this place, it is even slower. The Executive's process of reform has frozen solid. That is such a surprise when, so often, it is Executive parties that shout the loudest about the need for reform.”
“Given that Sinn Féin collapsed this place over the RHI scandal and has held the Finance Ministry since Sir Patrick Coghlin's report was published, I would have thought that it would be eager to implement the report's recommendations and help to restore trust in politics. It has the ability to do so through the brief that it has. Yet, as has been demonstrated, many, many years later we still have to wait for the recommendations to be fully implemented. <BR /> <BR />As has been said, 40% of the recommendations are not fully implemented, and five have not even been started. Just as it took a journalist to find out what was happening with RHI, it has taken the Audit Office report to find out that things have not been implemented. It seems that we just do not learn lessons about being open and getting on with the work that we have to do.”
“His final report set out all of the recommendations aimed at overhauling practices and implementing safeguards to prevent future governance failures. However, a lot of the damage had already been done, because it was not just wood pellets that went up in smoke as a result of RHI. Trust in our political institutions and political leaders went up in smoke, and trust in the Chamber went to pot as a result of what took place. <BR /> <BR />In the eyes of the public, the saga had all the hallmarks of a Government doomed to fail: political leaders not seeking the common good; the inequality of overseeing a scheme that some could exploit for profit; and the waste of millions of pounds of public money.”
“<BR /> <BR />The renewable heat scheme should have been straightforward, yet it exposed Government Ministers who were not across their brief and civil servants who were out of their depth, all of which was finally brought to light by a respected local journalist and a whistle-blower. It is important to note that it was not brought to light by those who were administering the scheme working out that they had done wrong and needed to change it. It was not their effort to say, "We have to put right something that we did wrong". It took a journalist to amplify that and get the change that was required. <BR /> <BR />In an effort to address the scheme's failings and ensure that they were not repeated, Sir Patrick Coghlin was charged with leading an inquiry into that scheme.”
“In any other place in the world, the story of a state-subsidised scheme to encourage renewable heat would be a humdrum filler. It would appeal to a small section of people and would not encourage much by way of interest or remarkable headlines. Yet, somehow or another, only a few years ago, that very matter was the catalyst for the collapse of the Government here, and it has become synonymous with dysfunction, alarming levels of ineptitude and financial inequality. The last Member to speak hit the nail on the head with a number of those examples. One has to wonder, as many Members have said today, what has actually been learned from that process and how much has changed when it comes to dysfunction.”
“The Chancellor announced an increase in employers' contributions to National Insurance, and businesses in Northern Ireland will have to pay that. The Chancellor also announced a reduction of 40% in business rates for retail and hospitality to help them offset that impact. Whether Northern Ireland businesses get that or not is down to you, Minister. Will you include a comparable rate relief for retail and hospitality in Northern Ireland in your upcoming reforms of the rates system?”
“I welcome all the amendments. There are many of them, including one from the SDLP, but I hope that we can focus on sending a clear message from the top of this hill: we want to support small businesses and our high streets and help them to be able to prepare for the future.”