Colin McGrath
South Down · Social Democratic and Labour Party · Northern Ireland
“Minister, regardless of where people stand on the exact figure, surely we can all agree that a health service cannot function without the doctors whom it trains.”
“Minister, climate change is happening, and extreme weather events are taking place. We saw that in Downpatrick a number of years ago when the town centre was ravaged by flooding, and it has taken the businesses affected many years to try to get over that flooding.”
“Minister, given that capital funding is, generally, being decimated, the extent of which may increase as a result of the Executive's not agreeing a Budget, what impact will that have on any final road maintenance strategy, and are any contingencies being put in place to manage that?”
“<BR /> <BR />Since March 2025, the parliamentary excellence programme has delivered dedicated sessions with the Executive Office on the strategic framework and its delivery plan, enhancing Members’ understanding of the cross-government approach and their role in scrutiny, legislation and constituency engagement.”
“<BR /> <BR />More broadly, the Assembly Commission supports Members and Committees in carrying out their scrutiny functions, including in relation to the Executive Office’s work on that framework.”
“As the Member mentioned, one example is the Assembly's Women's Caucus, which has a particular focus on supporting women in public life and highlighting the increasing challenges that women face in the digital sphere, including online abuse.”
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“That also allows us to address the imbalances, if there are any, where families are not teaching the correct values for society. We get that opportunity to do what we can to address the imbalances.”
“Importantly, that sends a message to people that we are trying to work together to achieve a programme that will work in our schools and help our young people. <BR /> <BR />There are undeniable facts. We have one of the highest rates for murders of women. As a society, we should not just sit back and acknowledge that; we must do something about it. In order to do something about it, we must recognise — there is a fair recognition of this — that there is, among some, a value base or an approach that is inconsistent with the peaceful society that we want to see. <BR /> <BR />The best way to support young people is, first and foremost, within the family, and then we get the opportunity to reinforce that in the education system by educating young people.”
“Thank you very much, Mr Deputy Speaker. <BR /> <BR />In every society and in every age, there is an injustice on which everybody feels that they must come together to overcome in order for us to have a peaceful and civil society. In the last number of years, the issue of violence against women and girls has really come to the fore and needs to be addressed by us. It was in that spirit that the Opposition tabled a suite of motions that we can debate and discuss in this place today. It gives us an opportunity to test where there is consensus and agreement in order to see how we can progress and move matters forward. <BR /> <BR />The debate has been positive. I sense that, in the Chamber, there is more that we agree than we disagree on.”
“Further to that answer to my constituency colleague's question, if there is money for instruments in South Down, maybe I will take up the guitar or something, and is the Minister aware of the percentage of Arts Council funding that goes to the Belfast City Council area compared with other areas?”
“It is a really quick point. Given the agreement that there is in the Chamber about the problems at the back door, and at the front door as well, the mere fact that patients are remaining in an ambulance and are not in the emergency department means that a form of triage is taking place to say that they are the least unwell because they are able to sit in an ambulance rather than in an ED. Is the Minister aware of what happens in London? There, there is a minimum handover time, because there is an understanding that the patient can be passed on. It is not great for those who are in emergency departments, but it does allow ambulances to get back out on the road.”
“I know that the Minister will agree with me and that he has tried this in the past, so I will continue with other Ministers from the past, present and future to say: let us build our workforce so that we have people. About six weeks ago, I sat with my mother in the Ulster Hospital for six and a half hours to get a blood test. Surely, my 81-year-old mother, who will slaughter me for calling her age out, could have had a blood test done somewhere much closer to home without having to travel 25 miles. <BR /> <BR />There are lots of problems in the system. It is not the ambulance staff; it is the system. Let us get the systemic problems fixed.”
“Yes, I totally agree. Also, if you are in a rural community, there is that little added concern that, if your ambulance comes to collect you to take you to, for example, Belfast or Derry, once the ambulance rolls out of the hospital, it could well be diverted to another call in that city, which means that, when people in a rural community ring for an ambulance, it sometimes has to be sent from 20 or 30 miles away. That means that the rural dweller is often the one who loses out in that movement. <BR /> <BR />I know that we have problems with staffing. I know that we cannot open every unit and have every emergency department filled with professionals. We do not have them. I raise the point, however, because I know that we want to look for solutions.”
“My thoughts were that I have never seen the North have so few emergency departments. If we do not have the places to put people — there are only a handful of those places left — they will be crammed. I look at my constituency and my home town. There was a home — St John's House — that had 50 or 60 beds for elderly people or those who were maybe exiting hospital and could spend a few days or a week or two there before they went home. The whole agenda was to close those places. Other homes in my constituency are open only because there was a massive community movement to fight the agenda of closing such places. We need to wake up to the realisation that, if we close places and do not spread the burden, we will have the pinch points.”
“If we had 500 people who were medically fit to go home but could not be allowed to leave hospital because no care packages were in place for them, the 400-odd people in the emergency departments could not move up to the wards. If those 400-odd people were in the emergency departments, there was no room at the inn for those in the back of ambulances, and that is where they had to stay. We can identify the problem, but it is not a new problem. <BR /> <BR />Mr Chambers mentioned that the seeds of the problem were sown some time ago. I would go back further than Alan was maybe thinking. The agenda for the last 20 years in the health service here has been about centralisation. I was listening to some of those consultants over the holiday period saying that they had never seen so many people in our emergency departments.”
“Imagine being a highly trained, highly skilled, life-saving individual who goes to work to use those skills but is sent to an ambulance that has been sitting outside a hospital for a number of hours and asked to take over looking after an individual and spend their whole shift sitting in the back of that ambulance until the next person comes on duty and they pass the individual on to them. We might think that that is something that is exceptional and takes place only on the odd occasion: regrettably, it happens every day. When we look at what happened in our health service over the Christmas holidays, we saw that in a really acute way. We saw one occasion when the vast majority of our ambulances were stuck outside emergency departments. <BR /> <BR />As has been mentioned, the issue is patient flow.”
“I thank the proposers of the motion for bringing it to the House. It is really important that, if nothing else, we acknowledge the fear in our community about ambulance provision. People are genuinely afraid, forbye all of our discussions here as to why, that, when they need an ambulance, when they lift the phone and dial 999, there is not immediately somebody at the other end who can come and help them. Of course, the paradox in that is that, as politicians, we will always try to find the blame and see who we can point the finger at in order to say, "Why is that not happening?". We certainly cannot point the finger at our ambulance personnel. We have to recognise the absolute frustration that they feel. <BR /> <BR />I am sure that all of us will know paramedics. We know people who are working in the trade.”
“Whilst I can hear in the answer that the Minister agrees that something needs to be done, can we get any sense of a timescale for when it will happen? The problems are mounting up, and people are suffering as a result. All that we seem to hear is, "We need extra funding, but we're not going to generate any extra money". How will we get something done?”
“We have a three-year plan that is packed with statements such as, "opportunities to reform", "I am committed to", "There is more I can do", "I will publish", "I will review", "I want to see" and all of it subject to funding that is yet to be allocated. Does the Minister agree that we need a concrete, tangible, fully funded, time-bound programme that is supported by the whole Executive to make the changes that we need and to save our health service? Regrettably, this statement is not it.”
“Given the conversations about flooding, did the Minister pick up any tips about any speedy interventions that could be made? We are one year down the road from the flooding in Downpatrick, with little to no evidence of any interventions that could help to prevent a recurrence of flooding. Local residents and businesses are exceptionally nervous. Was there anything from the meeting that could help those businesses and residents?”
“At the end of each show, the members take great relish in telling the audience that we were "absolutely average". I was proud to be part of their "average" pantomime at the weekend to assist them in saving Christmas. I am absolutely delighted, through the work of the Downpatrick Dramability group, that I believe, and that I can be that elf this Christmas.”
“In so doing, I was able to unlock the present that was on the stage, which enabled me to become an elf and, therefore, believe in Christmas. That meant that Santa Claus got out of jail, so he will be able to perform all his activities on Christmas Eve. <BR /> <BR />I thank the group for its performance. As I said, it is a mixed-ability group. Under the guidance of Bette Liddell, it has been working for years. It practises every week for its performances. It puts its heart and soul into its performances. The members have an opportunity to come together to socialise, to learn from each other and, especially, to grow in confidence and be very welcomed, loved and cherished members of our community. I absolutely love the shows. They are enjoyed by the hundreds who attend them each year.”
“I rise to congratulate the Downpatrick Dramability group, which is a mixed-ability group that puts on various performances throughout the year and has a pantomime at Christmastime, which I attended on Saturday past. MLAs get the opportunity to do lots of things during their tenure, but I wonder whether I can top it all, because, at the weekend, I got to save Christmas. As the show progressed, it became apparent that one person in the audience did not truly believe in Christmas. In fact, that one person in the audience, who was unknown at the time, was referred to as a Grinch. This caused Santa Claus to be locked in a dungeon and not able to do his duties. As the show progressed, it became apparent that the Grinch was me, and I was brought onstage to take part in the performance.”
“That is a really important point to raise. I congratulate and thank Nexus for their work. However, I know that, for some constituent cases that I have been dealing with, the parents of children who have been abused feel that there are very limited support services for them. They have also gone through a very traumatic experience. They have had to endure, as well — obviously, nothing in comparison to what the child has gone through — but there is a whole family that is upset there. We should aim to have much broader services, even statutory services, that support the whole family.”
“I acknowledge what the Minister has said. Does he believe that some of the 149 people were part of the 97,507 individuals who, while waiting for an ambulance to arrive, had to have the category of seriousness of their case upgraded because they had been waiting so long? What are we going to do to get our Ambulance Service up to the standard that it needs to be at in order to support its staff, who are worked to the bone? They are working day and night to provide a service for people in our community.”
“Santa-like or not regarding the delivery of those houses, the proof of the Christmas pudding will be in the eating. At a meeting last week of the all-party group on youth participation, the issue of young people not being included in the design of homes and social housing projects was raised. Houses are built, and people are shooed into them. If houses are going to be built through this project, will the Minister undertake to earmark some of them for young people and to include those young people in the design process so that the houses will be appropriate for their needs?”
“I hope that the Minister will do all that he can to address the roads in South Down.”
“Although drivers absolutely have to be careful and take account of what is around them, every time that you ask about an issue with a road, ask for it to be upgraded or point to some surface defect, you get the response, "It is the responsibility of the driver to drive appropriately for the surface of the road". Of course it is, but if we had nice surfaces and nice roads, it might be easier and more pleasant to do so. <BR /> <BR />South Down is probably no different from any other constituency in the state of the roads. If it is, there are more grounds for them to be fixed as quickly as possible. This has been a good debate on a really important issue. It impacts on more or less everybody in the area, because we are all in a car or a vehicle at some stage.”
“I know that a period has to pass before utility companies can come to dig up a road, but it sometimes feels as if they wait and wait and, the first day after the deadline, come straight out with their diggers to dig up the road. A piece of resurfacing was done between Crossgar and Downpatrick during my time in the Assembly. It was done only about six or seven years ago, but the road has already been dug up in various places. That just ruins the road. <BR /> <BR />I will touch on a final issue, which is a bit of a pet hate. It is about something that has slipped into the Department's email response to queries; I am not sure whether other Members have noticed it.”
“Roadworks that are done by utility services are an absolute bugbear. My town of Downpatrick is the greatest example. When you drive into Downpatrick from Belfast, you sometimes feel your car suddenly start to move towards the side of the road, and you realise that your tyres are in the tracks made by the utility company that resurfaced the road. The road surface has dropped down and created a bit of a recess, like a groove, where the work was done. That should not happen. I question the Department's checking system and ask the Minister to use his full influence to make sure that a robust system is put in place for every road that is ripped up by a company, because, around Downpatrick, there are numerous examples of roads that have been dug up and put back down by utility companies. Some great work has been done.”
“That has completely turned around. The roads in the South are far above the quality of the roads that we have in the North. That makes life difficult. <BR /> <BR />Other Members have rehearsed individual examples. In the area around Mourne, especially on the road from Newcastle to Kilkeel, the road surface is horrendous. I know that drivers are supposed to keep an eye on the road — that is important and is always the priority — but you have beautiful scenery around you and, for lots of visitors, the worst bit about the poor roads is that you never get a chance to take the scenery in, even as a passenger, because the car is bouncing around, people are grabbing whatever there is in the car to hold on to, and the journey is much more difficult. <BR /> <BR />I echo the remarks that were made about the Audit Office report.”
“Thankfully, I was able to direct them to the online system to claim the money back. It seems counterproductive that we direct people to receive compensation, which runs to millions and millions of pounds, yet we cannot use that money up front to fix the roads. <BR /> <BR />The second thing that I remember is that, when I was a child, for a time, we had to travel regularly to visit sick family in Dublin. Every Sunday, the whole family used to be packed into the car, and off we went to Dublin in the morning. We visited the family and then travelled back up again. We used to laugh in the car, because we knew exactly where the border was because, as we travelled north, the road surface suddenly became much better. It was smooth. It was a much better road. The roads in the South were always much worse, but how times have changed.”
“That is not necessarily comfortable for you or your passengers. Of course, you are also worrying about the fact that cars are coming on the other side of the road and about not straying into their path. On some of the country roads in rural constituencies, at times you really have to take your time, and you really sweat when driving along some of the roads because of the danger. Add to the mix a heavy rainfall, and you do not know whether something is a puddle or a pothole. If you drive over it, will it be grand, or will you bump right down into it? <BR /> <BR />From our constituency office work, we all know the number of complaints that we get about roads. None yet has topped the complaint that I got as a councillor about 15 years ago, when a person sent me the bill and asked me to pay it for them because of the state of the road.”
“We arrived in the capital city, which is quite far up in the north, and we were to attend a city that was about a three-hour drive to the south. It was the worst drive of my life. There were literally massive craters in the road. The minibus that we were in was weaving its way down to that city. It took an age to get there, and you felt that your stomach was in your mouth for that journey. That experience is what comes to mind on some of the roads in South Down and across other parts of the North. <BR /> <BR />You really find yourself paying serious attention to the sides of the road when you are driving to try to work out when you will have to pull over onto the other side of the road to navigate around potholes and sometimes even little surface defects that mean that your car will bump its way along.”
“I thank my constituency colleague for securing this important Adjournment debate. I reflect that, as a party health spokesperson, after about six or seven weeks of Adjournment debates on health matters, I spoke to the Whips and implored them to move on to different subjects. We have now had about five weeks of South Down issues. It seems that we are compelled to be the latest Members in attendance on Tuesdays. <BR /> <BR />There are so many different layers to the issue. There is no point in laying punches into the Minister. He has inherited the Department and an absolutely deplorable road network. Two different examples came to my mind. The first was that I remember joining the local town twinning committee about 10 years ago on a visit to Moldova.”
“I thank the Member for his supplementary question. As I understand, there are no plans currently for any North/South work on the education programmes, but I am sure that we can write back to the Member if there is anything on the agenda that might be able to be approved by the Commission.”
“It is halfway through its second mandate. In this mandate, it has consulted more than 1,800 young people, formed three Committees to address identified issues, given evidence to Statutory Committees and met the junior Ministers to discuss the Programme for Government. The Assembly Commission is rightly proud of the successes of the current Youth Assembly and its predecessor. <BR /> <BR />Our programmes for young people are supplemented by regular professional learning events for teachers. Those are for primary-school teachers, teachers of learning for life and work at GCSE and A level, teachers of government and politics and teachers from special schools. We provide resources for teachers. Those events are well attended and receive excellent feedback.”
“I thank the Member for his question. The Assembly Commission's Education Service has been very successful in encouraging participation by young people in democracy education. Since September 2023, 7,000 pupils have visited Parliament Buildings and a further 1,500 joined one of our online sessions. Those pupils came from a range of school types across all 18 constituencies. Our programmes are offered for primary-school-aged children right up to A-level government and politics students, who have specific and in-depth requirements. The education programme also gives Members the opportunity to participate, giving young people the opportunity to meet their elected representatives and to see democracy in action. <BR /> <BR />Alongside the schools programme, the Youth Assembly is a group of 90 young people aged 12 to 16.”
“I thank the Member for his supplementary question. Estimated costs of £2·4 million for the remedial works have been provided by experts employed by the Assembly Commission. Accurate costs and timescales for the proposed works will be provided when the works are tendered for. The work is to fix previous problems, so one hopes that there will be full and robust assurances given and that the work will finally address the issues without any further problems arising.”
“I thank the Member for his question. Initial safety measures, including scaffolding installation, have been implemented to help ensure the ongoing safety of Building occupants and to facilitate the necessary maintenance work. Experts employed by the Assembly Commission have assessed the damage, determined how it is to be repaired and provided estimate costs for the works. Officials have been working with Construction and Procurement Delivery (CPD) to determine the best mechanism by which to procure and undertake the necessary remedial works. It is expected that work to repair the rear parapet will commence early next year and that proposals to undertake the remaining works will be developed shortly in conjunction with CPD.”
“I thank the Member for his supplementary question. Some of the issues that he has mentioned were discussed at our most-recent Commission meeting, and we are to get an update at our next meeting, so more information may be circulated in the future. The Member asked a specific question about protections. It would be good if the Commission, or the relevant business area, were to write to the Member to answer that specific question.”
“If Members have any queries about the Assembly Commission's leased management print service, they should contact the head of IT.”
“The Commission therefore approved an uplift to the constituency office cost expenses budget of £300 to enable Members to either procure their own print capability for constituency offices through a leased management print service or to procure independently. Taking into account the average spend by Members on consumables, combined with the uplift that has been approved by the Assembly Commission, this will enable Members to print approximately 180,000 black and white pages per annum under the Assembly Commission's leased management print service. Of course, if a Member prints fewer pages than this, the monthly cost is lower. However, the leased management print service is not mandatory, and Members can procure their own print solution.”
“I thank the Member for his question. Historically, the Assembly Commission provided Members with a printer device for use in their constituency office and paid for associated maintenance and repairs. Members then paid for the cost of printer toner via their constituency office operating expenses budget. The average cost of consumables per Member was £550 per annum, which would have enabled Members to print approximately 52,000 black and white pages per annum, if you were counting. <BR /> <BR />As part of the printer replacement project, engagement with Members indicated that they require print, scan and copy capability in their constituency offices. Some Members also indicated a preference to procure their own printer from either a central contract, managed by the Assembly Commission, or an alternative supplier.”
“I do not think that there are any specific barriers, other than the fact that it is still being considered by the Assembly Commission. The Assembly Commission will meet in January and February next year, and, hopefully, the matter can be addressed then.”
“I thank the Member for his question. I am sure that all Members are interested in ensuring that pensions are aligned correctly, as they are meant to be, with those in other places. As for when that will happen, I am afraid that all I can say to the Member is that the introduction of the Bill is being considered by the Assembly Commission. Hopefully, there will be some movement on that next year.”
“I thank the Member for his question. In June 2020, the Assembly conferred powers on the Assembly Commission to determine matters relating to MLA expenses and allowances. However, matters relating to MLA salaries and pensions remain a matter for the successor independent financial review panel. The Assembly Commission is considering the introduction of a Bill to replace the panel with a remuneration board. Any review of the pension provisions will be a matter for the remuneration board to take forward once it has been formed.”
“The Minister says that the Civil Service is trying to manage this. Well, it is failing. We have 10% of our Civil Service on temporary promotion, and that number is increasing year-on-year. I worry about the practices that are being followed for filling a lot of those positions. There is still a lot of nudge nudge wink wink going on and people saying, "There is a job for you". Will the Minister commit to filling the proper ranks with open competitions that will be completely fair and will give everybody the opportunity to apply for a full-time permanent post?”
“On product, the Executive are also letting down the people of Ardglass. <BR /> <BR />On people, place and product, the Government and some parties continue to let down the people of Ardglass. The time for all who are responsible for our fishing industry to step up and do something for it is now.”
“On people and place, the Executive are not delivering and are therefore letting down the people of Ardglass. <BR /> <BR />Finally, I will deal with product. We have known for years that quotas are hard to come by. Restrictions are placed on what can be caught and where, and a catch often has to be tipped back into the sea. Somehow, the industry has always managed to get by. It has survived through fishermen's grit. The situation has changed, however. We know that there are difficulties on the horizon with herring quotas, for example. Moreover, there are fishermen who cannot get access to trawl Strangford lough. The level of disconnect between what the fishing industry can catch and process and what it is permitted to is massive. If that is not fixed, it could spell the end of the industry.”
“I appreciated the fact that, in March, the Minister met representatives from the sector in Ardglass and heard about their concerns, but there was little by way of concrete action taken, as he had to await the budget allocation from the Sinn Féin Finance Minister. When, following that budget allocation, it became clear that the fisheries and seafood development programme had not got its funding and would therefore have to drift a little and progress merely to the next stage, I wrote to the Minister to ask for an update on the funding position. His response stated that the £1·2 million needed could not be found to progress the works and that he would have to seek the funding through in-year monitoring. I look forward to hearing in his speech whether we will have that £1·2 million to make progress with the programme.”
“The Executive and some local parties are letting down the people of Ardglass. <BR /> <BR />What about place? What about the infrastructure changes that could make the industry more sustainable, help make the work of loading and unloading easier and ensure that the harbour can deal with bigger boats? In the previous mandate, then Minister Poots's announcement that he was establishing the fisheries and seafood development programme was welcomed by everyone across the political spectrum. The programme then stalled because of the collapse of the institutions. Upon restoration in February of this year, there was real hope in the sector that our new Agriculture Minister would commit to progressing the programme once more.”
“Since then, however, South Down's Alliance MLA has secured an Adjournment debate that was directed at a Sinn Féin Minister, and we now have one of South Down's Sinn Féin MLAs securing an Adjournment debate that is directed at an Alliance Minister. Unless I am mistaken, next week, we will have an Adjournment debate, secured by the DUP Member for South Down, that is directed at a Sinn Féin Minister. Yet, all of you guys are in the Executive together. You could work together to effect change, instead of coming in here for Adjournment debates. <BR /> <BR />The fishing industry in South Down is under serious pressure, but there is a pathway for relieving it and we must all work together to do so. What we do not have is the political buy-in from those parties that could make a difference to fishermen's lives.”
“<BR /> <BR />Just last week, there was a debate in Westminster on that very matter, which was secured by my colleague Claire Hanna MP. Where was the MP for South Down? Where was Sinn Féin to fight for the industry last week in the place where it was needed? I know that Sinn Féin says that it will work with people in Belfast, Dublin and Brussels so that those in fisheries and farming can get the best possible deal. Given that Sinn Féin has secured this Adjournment debate, what has been the result of those efforts? <BR /> <BR />As a member of the Opposition, I was proud to secure an Adjournment debate at the beginning of October. That was to hold the Agriculture Minister to account, and I continue to do that.”
“That is why the industry has had to look overseas, some parts of it to Europe and other parts of it further afield, for workers. Visas for seasonal workers has been a real note of concern for those in Ardglass. As with many issues, Brexit and its architects are culpable for creating havoc where, previously, there was some stability. Following Brexit, the UK recognised exemptions for non-EEA seasonal staff who were involved in the edible horticultural sector. However, it did not recognise fish processing as being part of that industry. Everyone involved in the sector, particularly those in Ardglass, knows that fishing and, by extension, fish processing are seasonal. The industry in Ardglass depends upon having seasonal staff. They are a lifeline that it depends upon.”
“I thank my constituency colleague for securing the Adjournment debate. I am going to focus on people, place and product, and I will highlight how the Executive, some local representatives and the London Government are letting down our fishing industry, those who work in it and the people of Ardglass. It is about people, place and product. <BR /> <BR />I will start with people. Everyone knows that the fishing industry is a tough trade, with long hours and time away from home. I am full of admiration for those who work in it, because it is hard graft. Getting staff can be a challenge. It can be, for parts of the year, not the most permanent of roles, and it is heavily weather dependent. Securing local people to work in it has always been a challenge.”