John Swinney
Scottish National Party · Scotland
“Since the report from several years ago was published, the Government has presided over the passage of legislation to rationalise that area of activity. Work is under way to transfer the responsibility for the funding of further education student support from the Scottish Funding Council to the Student Awards Agency Scotland.”
“I appreciate the urgency of the general policy elements of the question, because a number of applications are now being considered by planning authorities. My view is that, given the concerns that have been expressed by planning authorities, the Government has to be responsive to the issue.”
“For as long as we do not have a proper strategy on prison capacity, rehabilitation and clearing the court backlog, early release will be a revolving door, with people going in, coming out and going back into our prisons. Our justice system is in crisis, so we need a strategy.”
“I associate myself unreservedly Mr Cole-Hamilton’s comments about the feelings in the Muslim community. On Monday, I visited the Broomhouse mosque along with Simita Kumar and the Annandale Street mosque in Edinburgh with Ben Macpherson.”
“The development of further guidance will be undertaken in a manner consistent with the ruling by Lady Ross. Malcolm Offord: I thank the First Minister for his answer, which was more comprehensive than I expected.”
“I am a huge supporter of apprenticeship programmes. With foundation apprenticeships and graduate apprenticeships, the Government has brought forward important reforms that create new and successful pathways for young people. I am determined to make sure that every young person has that desirable pathway for their future.”
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“I will look into the question about the timing of delivery. If a commitment has been made, delivery should be put in place. I do not have the answer at the front of my mind just now, so I will take that away and explore it. St Columba’s hospice is particularly precious to me because my dear and beloved late mother was a volunteer there for many years. That institution is close to my heart, so I will take that question away and find out what the situation is. I do not approve of giving with one hand and taking away with the other. If the Government gave a commitment to the hospice sector that was merited and necessary—which it was—that should not be used by other organisations as an excuse to take away funding at local level. That really is just not on. Let me take that issue away.”
“The Government has committed to invest £14.2 million in Ferguson Marine over a two-year period, subject to due diligence and to commercial standards being met. That investment has already commenced with targeted early action to address essential repairs, health and safety improvements and upgrades to facilities and equipment that directly support the yard’s current projects. The Government will continue to support the business to secure new work and to deliver a sustainable future for the yard and its skilled workforce, which also involves a commitment to investing in the yard. Hospice Funding (Edinburgh)”
“I encourage the Renfrewshire IJB to consider all those questions, because it is important that services and support of that type are available to individuals at local level. Ferguson Marine (Capital Investment)”
“I understand the importance of services such as the one affected by the issue that Mr Bibby raises with me. The Government has, in its budget provision, put in place increased support for both Renfrewshire Council and Greater Glasgow and Clyde NHS Board and those bodies fund the integration joint board that will consider the issue. The Government’s outlook and the policy position that we take encourage the provision of early intervention services because, by supporting services of the type that Mr Bibby raises, we can invariably reduce the demand on far more expensive acute services, while also giving purpose and meaning to the lives of the individuals who are affected by those services.”
“I understand the importance that Liz Smith attaches to the issue that she raises about her current bill. I am mindful of that support and of Parliament’s position. However, as I have rehearsed on a number of occasions in exchanges during this question time, the Government is obliged to be mindful of how we can put in place resources to enable us to fund the commitments for which Parliament legislates. That is an absolute obligation for the Government when it introduces legislation, and we must be satisfied that such an approach applies to all legislation. Paisley Disability”
“Those are all encouraging signs, and we are working collaboratively with the company and others on the sourcing of orders. I expect that we will be able to provide a further update on the situation next week, and that the Deputy First Minister will be able to update Parliament accordingly on the steps that we are taking with ADL on a salary support scheme and other relevant issues in relation to new orders. Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill (Financial Resolution)”
“I thank Mr Matheson for his assiduous representation on behalf of his constituents. The Government has been working intensively with partners, including the trade unions, Scottish Enterprise, Transport Scotland and Alexander Dennis. A process of full and active co-operation, which has involved a number of ministers, has been under way for the past few weeks and months. It has been an entirely constructive period of engagement, and I very much welcome the positive developments that have taken place. Mr Matheson referred to the extension, until Monday, of the current consultation period, which is very welcome. I also welcome the decision of the trade unions to take forward the modernisation operations that Alexander Dennis has put in place.”
“Those rules must be rigorously applied in all circumstances, and in all the Government’s actions there must be a culture of delivering on the expectations of ministers and the public. The Presiding Officer: We move to constituency and general supplementaries. Alexander”
“The First Minister: In the pay deals that the Government has presided over we have put much more emphasis on increases for people on lower levels of pay than for those on higher levels. Mr Greene shakes his head, but I invite him to look at the pay deals that the Government has presided over. If he does, he will see that that is exactly what has happened in countless cases. I have a lot of sympathy with Mr Greene’s point that such arrangements should not be made in response to failure; they should not be. There should be proper accountability in the way in which they are exercised, which is why the Scottish public finance manual is constructed so that that point is central to decision making. The figures vary from year to year, but it is important that it is recognised that we have rules on how such agreements can be put in place.”
“That sum of £10 million would go some way towards funding, for example, the Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill introduced by Liz Smith, would it not? My primary concern here is that there seems to be a growing trend of reward for failure among senior public sector executives, whether at Ferguson Marine, the Water Industry Commission for Scotland, the national health service or the Scottish Qualifications Authority. Well-paid civil servants are walking away from failure with a large cheque in return for a gagging order, while those at the bottom of the pay ladder are struggling. Does the Scottish Government think that such huge pay-offs are appropriate? When will we see an end to the secrecy around such deals?”
“A review of the severance policy for Scotland concluded in 2023. Its findings were reflected in robust controls being put in place to scrutinise expenditure in line with the Scottish public finance manual. Settlement agreements address specific employment issues in individual organisations, and the number and nature of those can vary across sectors. It should be noted that settlement agreements are used rarely and only in very limited circumstances. Jamie Greene: I beg to differ. The figure of £4 million was last year’s figure. The year before, the figure was £1.5 million. In fact, over the past five years, there have been 300 such settlements, which have cost £10 million of public money, and a third of those came with confidentiality clauses attached to them.”
“The Westminster Government is making it more difficult for us to deliver public services in Scotland. I encourage Mr Sweeney to work with the Scottish Government to ensure that we have a rational debate on and approach to migration, rather than the chase to compete with the Reform party that has consumed the Starmer Government in London. Public Sector Settlement Agreements 7.”
“The First Minister: The Government is putting in place additional financial support to areas where access is particularly challenging, especially rural and island areas. That funding has recently supported the opening of five new surgeries, which has created space for thousands more new NHS registrations. I will tell Mr Sweeney what is not helping, and this goes back to the point that I have just made to Carol Mochan. We cannot escape the practical reality of the damage caused by the UK Government’s approach to migration. We have to work with other countries to bring dental practitioners into this country to supplement the other training work that we are undertaking. In July, the Labour Government in Westminster removed dental hygienists, dental technicians and dental nurses from the skilled worker sponsorship scheme.”
“Although the First Minister correctly observed that the public dental service is meant to be a safety net for emergencies and for those with vulnerabilities, it is increasingly filling in the gaps where routine NHS dental provision has collapsed. In areas such as Fife, Moray and the Borders, dentists no longer treat NHS patients, even if they are on their lists, so the only options are for people to seek care from the public dental service safety net or to use their savings to pay for private care. That is not good enough. What is the First Minister doing to tackle the scourge of dental deserts in Scotland and to end the growing overreliance on the already overstretched public dental service?”
“It is inaccurate to conflate an increase in public dental service spending with an increase in dental access issues. The main role of the public dental service is to treat patients who have more complex needs that cannot be managed by independent dentists. Scotland remains the only country in the United Kingdom to offer free regular dental examinations for everyone, and 95 per cent of people in Scotland are registered with dentists. More than 7 million courses of national health service dental treatment have been delivered to patients since November 2023. Paul Sweeney: The First Minister says that those things should not be conflated, but my question reflects what public dental service dentists are telling us.”
“The First Minister: The number of hip and knee operations reached an all-time high in 2024. Mr Whittle asks me when I will take action, and I say to him that I am taking action. The health secretary and I are working day in, day out to make sure that the health service is delivering for the people of Scotland. That progress is taking place the length and breadth of the country.”
“The First Minister: On the substance of Mr Whittle’s question, I note that there are more nurses and midwives working in our NHS now— more than 67,000 nurses and midwives—than when this Government took office. Mr Whittle asks when the action will come; I say to him that the action has come, and it is being delivered. He asks about performance in other aspects of the health service; I have to tell him that the number of operations performed in July was the highest in five years—there was an 8.9 per cent increase. More people are being treated at our national treatment centres this year than ever before. Our rapid cancer diagnostic services mean that people are getting faster diagnosis after referral. [Interruption.] The Presiding Officer: Let us hear the First Minister.”
“Brian Whittle: The vacancy figures are just the latest in a long line of warnings about the perilous position of Scotland’s healthcare workforce. Despite promise after promise from the SNP, the warnings keep coming and progress never arrives. There is no NHS workforce plan and no end to delayed discharge, and there are nearly a million Scots on NHS waiting lists. Meanwhile, NHS staff are crying out for investment in facilities and technology to improve working conditions and patient care. Last week, the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care declared that a target to end waits of longer than a year is now just an aspiration. Aspiration will not solve the escalating staffing crisis, so when will the First Minister take real action to deal with the staffing crisis in our NHS?”
“NHS Scotland vacancies follow a seasonal pattern. Mr Whittle compared June data with December data, but vacancies typically go up in the spring as people retire and decrease again over the summer and autumn as new graduates join the workforce. Nursing and midwifery vacancies are 4 per cent higher than they were at the same time last year. However, that must be seen in the context of new investment by the Government in our national health service, which has meant that the workforce grew over the past year. Overall, nursing and midwifery staffing is up under the Scottish National Party Government by 18.6 per cent since 2006, and we saw a 100 per cent increase in funded places for training between 2012 and 2022. Scotland has the best package of support in the UK for nursing and midwifery students.”
“I will do everything that I can to ensure that the Government’s ambitions to eradicate child poverty and to make that difference in the first year of a child’s life are central to our thinking in the period to come. Nursing and Midwifery Vacancies 5.”
“The First Minister: I unreservedly accept the point that Ruth Maguire puts to me. It is a joy to have her putting pressure on me after her return to the Parliament. [Applause.] I encourage her to continue to champion such issues and to put pressure on the Government to do more, and I very much welcome her contribution to that. I accept her points about the importance of the first year in a child’s life. The Government is actively exploring what more it can do. In my earlier answer, I said that we are constantly looking to identify additional interventions that we can make. Obviously, I have to be mindful of the resources that are available, but the plea that is made by Ruth Maguire is heard loud and clear here on the Government bench.”
“Ruth Maguire: I know how committed the First Minister is to eliminating child poverty. The work that the Scottish Government has done to date has made a difference. Lots of things give babies and their parents a good start—love, information and support, and play opportunities—but there is strong evidence that where parents experience the psychological, emotional and material impact of poverty in their baby’s first year, it can have a deep and lasting impact on a baby’s development. Does the First Minister recognise how much income matters to a baby’s development, that spending on our youngest citizens is a crucial investment and that preventing the harms of poverty from taking root in the first year of a child’s life is transformational not just for individual babies and families but for our society as a whole?”
“Ending child poverty is my Government’s top priority. We constantly look for measures that we can take to advance that agenda. The delivery of our five family payments is making a real difference to families. The payments in Scotland are worth around £25,000 by the time a child turns 16, compared with less than £2,000 in England and Wales. That is another example of why the Joseph Rowntree Foundation projects that Scotland will be the only part of the United Kingdom where child poverty levels fall next year. We are also taking forward other measures, such as the lifting of the two-child limit. If that action was taken by the United Kingdom Government—and it should be—up to £150 million would be freed up in Scotland, which could be spent on additional measures to address child poverty in our country.”
“That brings me back to the starting point of Mr Greer’s question, which is that there is a necessity for the United Kingdom Government to use its diplomatic influence with the Government of Israel, and to work with other partners, in order to make it abundantly clear that the conduct of the Israeli Government is completely and utterly unacceptable. There needs to be an immediate ceasefire and the flow of humanitarian aid, and we need to start the process of recovery for the people in Palestine, whose lives have been absolutely devastated by the unwarranted attack. Best Start Grant and Best Start Foods 4.”
“The First Minister: In my statement to Parliament last Wednesday, I set out a range of interventions that the Government will take forward to address those issues. I recognise the importance of following through on the commitments that have been given to Parliament, and I give Mr Greer the assurance that that is exactly what the Government is doing and the action that we are taking. The appalling situation in Gaza has been escalated by the unwarranted and unjustifiable attack on Qatar—a state that is working to try to bring some degree of peace to the situation in the middle east. The attack on Qatar was intended to undermine the very peace process that we all want to see happening.”
“Last week, Palestinians celebrated when this Parliament took the historic decision to pass a Green proposal that Scotland boycott, sanction and divest from Israel. I thank the First Minister for his Government’s support, but now we must act to deliver on it. The very least that the Scottish Government can do is to take the same actions against Israel that it already has taken against Russia. In 2022, Scottish ministers rightly made an immediate call for every business here to sever links and cease trading with Russia. Palestinian lives are worth no less than those of Ukrainians or Scots, and this Parliament has voted for an economic boycott. Will the First Minister now call on Scottish businesses to join the global movement against apartheid Israel?”
“On Mr Greer’s specific point about any individuals from this country who are involved in the work of the Israeli Defense Forces and whether there would be any consideration of that behaviour, those judgments would be made independently by the prosecutorial authorities. It would be wrong for me, as First Minister, to indicate what should or should not happen in those circumstances. However, I understand the seriousness of the point that Mr Greer puts to me on that important question. Ross Greer: More than a third of the 60,000 Palestinians who have been confirmed to have been killed by Israel since 2023 were children— shot, bombed and starved to death, with no way out. No company profiting from that apartheid and genocide should be allowed to profit here in Scotland.”
“First, I understand the depth of Mr Greer’s concern about the visit of the President of Israel to the Prime Minister. I also understand the Prime Minister’s argument that there is a need for dialogue with the Israeli Government to try to bring about a resolution of the unjustifiable assault on Gaza. I understand that point. What I would want to be more confident of is that the President of Israel heard from the Prime Minister a series of actions that the United Kingdom Government will take to bring Israel to account for the disproportionate attack that has been made on Gaza. I would feel happier if that was the case.”
“Mr Sarwar is at the bottom of the barrel today. The accusation that there is a soft-touch justice system in Scotland might have some validity if we were not incarcerating more people than any other western European country and if our prisons were not facing the increase in population that they are. The charge that Mr Sarwar has put to me is a baseless charge that is unworthy of the Labour leader in the Scottish Parliament, and he should withdraw it. In the budget—which Mr Sarwar never voted for—we put in money to tackle retail crime and to support and work with the retail sector. Mr Sarwar could not even bring himself to vote for that provision. [Interruption.]”
“However, I say to Parliament that the Government has introduced legislation to do exactly what is required in the criminal justice system just now, which is to put the voice of victims more centrally into that system. I am confident that the bill that Parliament will consider next week will do exactly that. Criminal Justice (Retail Crime) 2.”
“The First Minister: I do not want for one moment or in any way to signal to Parliament that I want to do anything in the bill that does not address the legitimate concerns of victims about our criminal justice system. That is why the Government has introduced the bill. I had the privilege of sitting and hearing evidence in the Criminal Justice Committee when I was on the back benches. As a result of listening to victims, when I came into office as First Minister, and working with the justice secretary, we revised the bill to make sure that the interests of victims are ever more central to it. I do not accept the characterisation of the bill that Mr Findlay has put to me. Legitimate issues will be raised that members will want to press the Government on. That is entirely appropriate parliamentary scrutiny, and I welcome it.”
“Russell Findlay: The truth is that the Scottish child abuse inquiry will not look at the grooming gangs, or even at industrial-scale abuse in Scottish football. The bill could give victims real transparency over plea deals and much greater involvement in the parole process, and it could put a spotlight on the grooming gangs scandal. It could do so much more, but it will not meaningfully change the justice system. It is a letdown for victims. If the First Minister wants to support victims and have the support of my party, he must do more. We could back a bill that makes a real difference, but, as it stands, this is a victims law in name only. Will John Swinney listen to victims, show some ambition and make more changes before next week’s vote?”
“Separate work by Police Scotland and the Crown is under way to explore individual cases, some of which are the cases that Mr Findlay has just raised with me, to establish whether further detailed scrutiny is required on grooming gangs. From my reading of the information that I have seen, I am not persuaded of the necessity of that further inquiry, but work is under way in Police Scotland and the Crown Office to advise ministers on that point. We will consider that and discuss it with Parliament in due course. It is important that I make it clear that the criminal justice system has taken very hard and significant action to bring people to account for utterly unacceptable behaviour, and that will remain the case.”
“Although we believe that there should be a full public inquiry, our amendment would at least guarantee an investigation. Those predatory criminals raped vulnerable girls, and the Government should want to properly examine the scandal; however, so far, it has been resistant. Will John Swinney fix the bill so that it gives grooming gang victims the voice, the inquiry and the justice that they truly deserve? The First Minister: The Government has taken a number of significant steps in this area of policy, not least of which is the establishment of the continuing Scottish child abuse inquiry, led by Lady Smith, which has been sitting since 2016. That inquiry is providing the welcome and significant scrutiny that is required on the issue.”
“We have will have amendments in front of us in Parliament on Tuesday, and the Government will consider all the amendments that are submitted to come to the right conclusion. I assure the Parliament and Liz Shanks that we have listened to the opinions that have been expressed to us, we are making changes to the bill, and the Government is absolutely committed to ensuring that the voice of victims is central to the way in which the criminal justice system proceeds. Russell Findlay: Of course, the engagement is welcome, but it has to be meaningful. Plea deals are not the only part of the bill that does not do what it should. My colleague Liam Kerr has lodged an amendment that would instigate a Scottish grooming gangs inquiry.”
“Liz and the other women met the justice secretary, who appeared to say all the right things, but this is what Liz told me today: “They are pretending to listen, but crime victims will continue to be badly let down by the bill, which could have done so much more.” For the sake of Liz and all other victims, will John Swinney back my plea deal amendments? The First Minister: First, I pay tribute to the courage of women such as Liz Shanks. It is invariably women who have had the courage to come forward and talk about their experience so as to ensure that victims are more central to the criminal justice system. I know that the justice secretary has engaged substantively on all those issues.”
“I am confident that, after the scrutiny that Parliament gives it next week, the bill will be in a position to do that. Russell Findlay: Liz Shanks campaigns for victims’ rights since her truly horrific domestic violence ordeal, which was featured in a BBC documentary. We agree with her that all crime victims should be told—must be told—when secretive plea deals are struck in criminal cases. To be fair, the Government has given some ground on plea deals, but the changes fall far short of what is needed.”
“Yes, I do, because of the very careful engagement of the Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs in taking the bill through Parliament. Mr Findlay and I spent some time when I was on the back benches—as he was—scrutinising the bill when it came to Parliament. Much of the evidence that we heard during that process persuaded me, when I became First Minister, that there had to be changes to the bill. The Government listened to the evidence that was put in front of us. We will continue to do that, and many of the proposals and reforms that have been suggested in the bill are designed to achieve the objective that Mr Findlay has put to me, which is to make sure that the interests of victims are better protected by our justice system.”
“Craig Hoy: Mr Swinney is shaking his head, pretending that none of this is to do with him, but it is quite clear that, as Scotland has more liberal homelessness rules than England, Scottish councils fear that thousands of potential asylum seekers will come to Scotland where they will have a right to be housed that does not exist in England. That is a real risk, which the minister is well aware of.”
“Will the member give way? Craig Hoy: I give way to Mr Swinney. The First Minister: Although Mr Hoy is tacitly acknowledging the failure of the Conservative Government to properly manage the asylum regime over many years in office, he is bringing the debate to the Parliament to politically exploit the issue in a most disgusting fashion. It embodies where the Conservative Party has found itself these days. Craig Hoy: We can always rely on John Swinney to lower the tone. We are coming to the Parliament to reflect the legitimate views of reasonable people in a representative democracy. I think that it is scurrilous, Mr Swinney, for you to throw around that kind of language when we are having a reasoned debate in the Parliament. The Deputy Presiding Officer: Through the chair, Mr Hoy.”
“A lot of improvements to housing supply have been achieved in the past 12 months, and I am determined to build on that in the period ahead. The Presiding Officer: That concludes First Minister’s questions.”
“If Pauline McNeill will forgive me, I will not intrude on the planning application process—it is generally pretty tricky when ministers do that. However, I will say that the Homeless Project Scotland carries out an important role in supporting vulnerable individuals in our country. Therefore, regardless of the planning application, we must find ways of supporting such individuals. The Cabinet Secretary for Housing is planning to engage on the issue and perhaps visit the project. I will give consideration to that, because I want to ensure that we have in place practical support for people who are homeless. I hope that the housing secretary’s statement to Parliament on Tuesday indicated the priority that we attach to improving housing supply.”
“The Government will give leadership and practical support for community cohesion, because we believe—as Mr Doris does—that Scotland is best served by being an inclusive and welcoming country; it has been in the past and it must be in the future. Homeless”
“I could not have expressed that point better than Mr Doris has. I agree with him that the national flag of Scotland has always been represented as an inclusive flag that is there to draw all of us together in Scotland as an essential part of our national identity, and I want to ensure that is always the case. I had the pleasure of being in Mr Doris’s constituency last Thursday at the launch of a magnificent partnership between Home-Start, Greater Glasgow and Clyde NHS Board and Glasgow City Council. The partnership supports many vulnerable families in the Maryhill area, and I was glad that Mr Doris made it possible for me to be there at its launch. At the heart of that event was the spirit of inclusion; the welcome to people from other places who had made Glasgow and Maryhill their home and who were proud of that fact.”
“I have set out my concern about where the debate on migration is going. I honestly do not think that Sandesh Gulhane’s contribution helps us one bit in trying to ensure that our country remains cohesive and united, as it has always been on those questions. The issues that the city of Glasgow faces are fundamentally because of the inadequacy of the approach of the United Kingdom Home Office— Councillor Aitken made that point clearly. That is where there needs to be a realisation of the implications of those issues, and I encourage the Home Office to engage with Glasgow City Council on those particular questions. I make it absolutely clear to anyone who is listening that I think that Scotland is a welcoming country. Under my leadership, it will remain a welcoming country, and that is something that we as a country should be proud of.”
“We have to leave enough time for both parliamentary scrutiny of the budget and scrutiny of the Government’s choices by the Scottish Fiscal Commission, but the lateness of the presentation of the UK budget means that a very short number of weeks will be available in which that can be done before the start of the financial year in April 2026. It is a completely undesirable situation. The Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government has, I think, written to the Finance and Public Administration Committee, and she will discuss the issues with the Scottish Fiscal Commission. The Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government have been left in an entirely undesirable situation as a consequence of the delay to the timetable for the United Kingdom budget.”
“This is a very unfortunate situation, to put it mildly. The lateness of the presentation of the UK budget will mean that the budget process of the Scottish Government will be under enormous pressure. Given that the Parliament will rise for the election around the middle of March, the window for scrutiny and delivery of the budget priorities, and particularly for the Government to fulfil its legal obligations in relation to the scrutiny by the Scottish Fiscal Commission, for example, will be very constrained.”
“First of all, the Government takes a neutral stance on the bill, which is before Parliament just now. It is a member’s bill, not a Government bill, and the Government takes a neutral stance on it, so I can express only a personal opinion to Pam Duncan- Glancy. As Ms Duncan-Glancy will know, I do not support the bill, and I do not support it for many of the reasons that she has just put on the record. I have enormous personal sympathy with the point that she raises. Parliament will have to wrestle with those issues as it considers the legislation, but I can only express to her my agreement with the point that she has made. United”
“I recognise the importance of the issue that Liam Kerr raises and the worry that it will be causing his constituents. The cabinet secretary is actively engaged in considering the proposals that have been put to her and will come to conclusions very shortly. Mr Kerr and his constituents will be advised when that conclusion has been reached. Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults (Scotland)”
“First, I express my sympathy to Marie McNair’s constituent’s family. I am very concerned and sorry to hear of the example that has been set out about the impact of methanol poisoning. It is important that we have a comprehensive set of interventions to address all such issues of potential harm. I am happy to agree that the education secretary will meet Marie McNair to discuss our approach to education in respect of alcohol, medicines, drugs, tobacco and solvents as part of the wider curricular approach that we take in Scottish schools. Reinforced Autoclaved Aerated Concrete (Aberdeen)”