John Swinney
Scottish National Party · Scotland
“Since the report from several years ago was published, the Government has presided over the passage of legislation to rationalise that area of activity. Work is under way to transfer the responsibility for the funding of further education student support from the Scottish Funding Council to the Student Awards Agency Scotland.”
“I appreciate the urgency of the general policy elements of the question, because a number of applications are now being considered by planning authorities. My view is that, given the concerns that have been expressed by planning authorities, the Government has to be responsive to the issue.”
“For as long as we do not have a proper strategy on prison capacity, rehabilitation and clearing the court backlog, early release will be a revolving door, with people going in, coming out and going back into our prisons. Our justice system is in crisis, so we need a strategy.”
“I associate myself unreservedly Mr Cole-Hamilton’s comments about the feelings in the Muslim community. On Monday, I visited the Broomhouse mosque along with Simita Kumar and the Annandale Street mosque in Edinburgh with Ben Macpherson.”
“The development of further guidance will be undertaken in a manner consistent with the ruling by Lady Ross. Malcolm Offord: I thank the First Minister for his answer, which was more comprehensive than I expected.”
“I am a huge supporter of apprenticeship programmes. With foundation apprenticeships and graduate apprenticeships, the Government has brought forward important reforms that create new and successful pathways for young people. I am determined to make sure that every young person has that desirable pathway for their future.”
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“Obviously, this is a live planning application, so I cannot comment specifically on the details involved. However, I assure Julie MacDougall that the planning process must take into account the representations that are made by local communities. There will be statutory considerations to take into account as well. Depending on the course of that planning application, there may well be a determination that the Government has to make. I assure Julie MacDougall that, should the Government be in that position, the views, concerns and issues raised by communities and statutory objectors will be considered in detail by ministers in coming to any determination that the Government has to make. Scottish Fire and”
“If Parliament wishes to spend more money on local authority services, we have to be prepared to take the decisions that enable that to be the case. The Government has given an increased local authority settlement to local government and that gets translated into funding for individual local authorities. We will engage with Parliament about the composition of the budget bill as the budget process takes its course through Parliament later this year. Data Centre (Auchtertool)”
“I understand the importance of Angela Ross’s point. I visited North Berwick with Mr McLennan during the election campaign; it was very busy on that occasion. From my knowledge of the town, I can see that is a bustling and vibrant community. The concerns that the member raises were spelt out to me directly by a number of local businesses on that occasion, so I recognise the seriousness of those points. The decision on parking meters was taken by East Lothian Council and it is up to the council to explain to its constituents exactly why it took that decision. When it comes to funding arrangements, we as a Parliament have to ensure that we provide adequate levels of funding on a sustainable basis to a variety of different public organisations, and the needs of local authorities will be central to that judgment.”
“We have not had dialogue with the UK Government on that question. However, before the election, I authorised the permanent secretary to examine all issues relating to engagement between the Scottish Government and Peter Mandelson, in order to satisfy ourselves that there had been no circumstances in which information material to the public interest in Scotland had been in any way jeopardised by those contacts. I was satisfied with the permanent secretary’s assessment in that regard. However, I assure Mr Kerr that, notwithstanding those issues, the Scottish Government will always work to promote Scotland’s interests in the international community, with the objective of promoting our cultural interests and securing investment. Local”
“I will take away those issues, and the justice secretary will consider the issues on my behalf and provide me with recommendations on how we can properly address Mr Rennie’s concerns and those of his constituents.”
“I am very sympathetic to Mr Rennie’s point, because I want to ensure that his constituents are satisfied by the examination of the issues. I recognise the level of inconvenience and distress that was caused to the public as a consequence of the fire, but I will have to consider in more detail whether that requires an independent investigation. However, I assure Mr Rennie that we need to have a much better understanding of the circumstances and causes of incidents of this type. I also consider that some of the investigations into such matters take far too long. That concerns me, because we must learn the lessons and change practice—should that be necessary—at a much swifter pace than we have done up until now.”
“I gave a commitment to those newspapers—as I did to Sir Tom Hunter when I met him to discuss issues on economic development a couple of weeks ago—that I would consider carefully what improvements the Government can make, as quickly as possible, to ensure that businesses are given the support that they need to continue investing, without issues to do with business rates impeding their success and growth in the economy. Lower Melville”
“I recognise the challenges on business rates that are coming and that businesses are facing. I have engaged with the excellent initiative by The Press and Journal, The Courier and The Sunday Post, which is raising awareness of business rates issues and seeking an approach that incentivises growth, encourages development and enables businesses to invest for the future and deliver greater economic success. Their approach chimes directly with the approach of my Government and what we want to achieve.”
“I share the concerns that Alyn Smith has set out. Like him, I have many constituents who are reliant on domestic heating oil, and some of the increases have been significant. The Government has established the Scottish emergency heating oil scheme, enabling households to apply for £300 towards their bills. I am glad to hear that the member has written to the Competition and Markets Authority, because it is currently undertaking a market study into the retail supply of heating oil for domestic use in the United Kingdom, and the Government’s officials are engaged in that work. The issue is one on which we require, and have been encouraging, greater intervention from the UK Government. Business Rates (Fresh Start Initiative)”
“I confirmed to the Parliament last week that the islands fund would happen. The Government will take forward the eligibility criteria. We have delivered funds of that nature in the past, so we know exactly how it has to be constructed. We have to make an assessment of where the patterns of disruption have taken their course. That is the approach that we applied in previous cases. I accept that there is an aspiration for there to be compensation in all circumstances but, as part of the assessment, there has to be a recognition of the scale of disruption. That is what the Government will engage on. We will shortly announce the details of how the fund will be taken forward and distributed. Domestic Heating Oil (Market Operation)”
“I recognise the importance of those issues and, as Donald MacKinnon will know, am pretty well versed in the issues and challenges around the ferry network. When I answered the question last week, the indicators on the ferry service were very strong. Indeed, when I checked the CalMac Ferries service updates shortly before I came in for question time, I saw that most routes are operating normally today, with the exception of the Uig triangle, which is not operating normally because of the mechanical problems with the MV Hebrides. The MV Lord of the Isles is operating a service to Uig just now—or, certainly, it was doing so yesterday. There will be challenges on the ferry network, but we are in a more robust and stronger position than we were. The MV Isle of Lewis has returned to the Barra service, which is a welcome development.”
“I hope that those measures give Kate Campbell and her constituents the assurance that the Government prioritises active and safe travel routes and the encouragement of cycling, walking and wheeling as part of the active travel hierarchy. Islands Business Resilience Fund (Ferry Disruption)”
“The national transport strategy prioritises active travel through the sustainable travel hierarchy, placing walking, wheeling and cycling at the top. This year, the Government is continuing to invest in active travel infrastructure through the Scottish budget, which was passed by the Parliament, including £226 million for sustainable and active travel. The majority of that will deliver high-quality walking and cycling infrastructure in communities, with inclusive design principles embedded, to improve safety and accessibility for more people who want to make more of their journeys by active travel modes. We are also supporting local authorities, through the £14.5 million road safety improvement fund, to enhance safety and reduce the number of injuries on our road network.”
“I would be very happy to meet the Mark Sommerville Foundation, and the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Care will also take a keen interest in the issue. I very much welcome the points that Steven Bonnar has made. It is vital that, where individuals have a diagnosis as challenging and devastating as that of motor neurone disease, we have in place the support services and the assistance to aid them and their families as quickly as possible. The Government is trying to ensure that, through the funding that we have put in place through the NHS Research Scotland neuroprogressive and dementia network, we will be able to provide enhanced levels of support. Some of the learning from the Mark Sommerville Foundation will be helpful to us in advancing that, and I look forward to having those discussions with Mr Bonnar. Transport Strategy (Cycling)”
“I want Highland and Islands Airports Ltd and Loganair to work collaboratively to ensure that the services can be sustained. I recognise their importance, particularly given issues in connection with access to healthcare services. The Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Tourism and Transport will ensure that appropriate dialogue takes place between Loganair and HIAL to ensure that everything that can be done to safeguard those services is, in fact, put in place. Motor”
“As part of the Government’s wider programme, we will take measures to support individuals who are facing cost of living challenges, in recognition of the significance of those to individuals today. Air Services (Orkney, Shetland and the Western Isles)”
“That is an important issue. In the legislation that we passed in Parliament before the election, we put in place the rent control arrangements, which are an important part of the safeguards that Q Manivannan is searching for on behalf of constituents. I believe that that framework is appropriate. The Government will continue to assess the assistance that can be made available through the other housing support that we provide. In the election campaign, I advanced the argument that renters who are in a situation in which the property that they occupy is being put on the market should have the right and first opportunity to purchase it at a sustainable market rate. The Government has put in place the legislative arrangements to ensure that the objectives that are being sought can be fulfilled.”
“I note Mr Johnson’s long-standing interest in this issue and if there are areas of common ground where we can work with him, we will be very happy to do so. I want to see the maximum level of economic participation across a range of sectors in which we face challenges in the availability of employees to contribute to our economy, and young people have a vital contribution to make to that. Private Tenants (Protections)”
“Although Alan Milburn’s report focused on services in England, I recognise that there are lessons to be drawn from its conclusions. Ensuring the maximum participation of young people in the labour market is, obviously, a priority for the Scottish Government. One important measure that the Government uses to assess our performance in that respect is positive destinations after leaving school. In 2024- 25, 95.7 per cent of school leavers were in a positive destination three months after leaving school. That is an encouraging indicator of the pathways in place for young people. However, we must focus on supporting schools and young people to take forward positive pathways. The Government has a commitment to delivering 150,000 modern apprenticeships during this session of Parliament and we will pursue that approach.”
“I know that Mr Middleton will meet tomorrow with the Cabinet Secretary for Education, Culture and Gaelic and the Minister for Business and Fair Work to establish further actions that can be taken and I assure him that the Government will do all that we can to support him in the efforts that he is taking forward on behalf of his constituents and those of many other members in the north and north-east of”
“I entirely agree with the concerns expressed by Mr Middleton on behalf of his constituents. Before the election, I expressed to Parliament the deep unease that I felt about the diminution of STV North news production capability and broadcast, because of the importance of broadcasting reflecting interests across the whole of Scotland. I have written to Ofcom and STV to once again urge them to ensure that they are meeting their obligations to audiences and to dedicated journalists and to reiterate my whole-hearted opposition to the decision that Ofcom has made, which I think is ignorant of the needs and circumstances of the north and north-east of Scotland.”
“Amendment disagreed to. The Presiding Officer: The final question is, that motion S7M-00159, in the name of Stephen Gethins, entitled “It’s Scotland’s energy”, be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Presiding Officer: There will be a division. Members should cast their votes now. The vote is closed.”
“For Ahmed, Irshad (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Lab) Baillie, Jackie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Baxter, Andrew (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (LD) Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab) Chou Turvey, Yi-pei (North East Scotland) (LD) Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh North Western) (LD) Dijkstra-Downie, Sanne (Edinburgh Northern) (LD) Dunlop, Duncan (South Scotland) (LD) Fagan, Joe (South Scotland) (Lab) Griffin, Mark (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Lab) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Harley, Adam (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (LD) Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Long, Joe (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) MacCallum, Morven-May (Highlands and Islands) (LD) MacKinnon, Donald (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (Lab) Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab) McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD) McNeill, Pauline (Glasgow) (Lab) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) Rennie, Willie (Fife North East) (LD) Sangster, Katherine (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Lab) Sarwar, Anas (Glasgow) (Lab) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Young, Jenny (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Lab) Against Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) Anderson, Heather (Dundee City West) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire West and Levern Valley) (SNP) Bannerman, Max (Highlands and Islands) (Reform) Barratt, David (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North) (SNP) Beresford, Senga (South Scotland) (Reform) Black, Dawn (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Bland, Amanda (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Reform) Bonnar, Steven (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) Bouse, Gary (Falkirk West) (SNP) Briggs, Miles (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Con) Brown, Alan (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Bruce, Holly (Glasgow Southside) (Green) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Campbell, Kate (Edinburgh Eastern, Musselburgh and Tranent) (SNP) Campbell, Michelle (Renfrewshire North and Cardonald) (SNP) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab) Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP) Currie, Victor (Highlands and Islands) (Reform) Day, Martyn (Falkirk East and Linlithgow) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Kelvin and Maryhill) (SNP) Duane, Iris (Glasgow) (Green) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Findlay, Russell (West Scotland) (Con) Flynn, Stephen (Aberdeen Deeside and North Kincardine) (SNP) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Con) Gethins, Stephen (Dundee City East) (SNP) Ghani, Zen (Glasgow Cathcart and Pollok) (SNP) Gibson, Patricia (Cunninghame South) (SNP) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Goodlad, Hannah Mary (Shetland Islands) (SNP) Gray, Neil (Airdrie) (SNP) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Hagmann, Katie (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen and Cambuslang) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Hoy, Craig (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Kerr, Alex (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (SNP) Kerr, Calum (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Stephen (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Kerr, Thomas (Glasgow) (Reform) Kinross-O’Neill, Kayleigh (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Green) Kirkwood, David (South Scotland) (Reform) Kumar, Simita (Edinburgh South Western) (SNP) Langan, Jamie (South Scotland) (Reform) Leask, Kristopher (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Linden, David (Glasgow Baillieston and Shettleston) (SNP) Lindsay, Amanda (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Reform) Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con) MacDougall, Julie (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Reform) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Green) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh North Eastern and Leith) (SNP) Manivannan, Q (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Green) Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) McDade, Helen (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Reform) McKee, Cara (West Scotland) (Green) McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Easterhouse and Springburn) (SNP) McLennan, Paul (East Lothian Coast and Lammermuirs) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) Melville, Lloyd (Angus South) (SNP) Merrick, Colm (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Middleton, Jack (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Mitchell, Laura (Moray) (SNP) Moodie, Laura (South Scotland) (Green) Nevens, Kate (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Green) Offord, Malcolm (West Scotland) (Reform) Oswald, Kirsten (Eastwood) (SNP) Roddick, Emma (Inverness and Nairn) (SNP) Ross, Angela (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Reform) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Schmulian, Kim (Glasgow) (Reform) Simpson, Graham (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Reform) Simpson, Mark (North East Scotland) (Reform) Slater, Lorna (Edinburgh Central) (Green) Smith, Alyn (Stirling) (SNP) Smith, David (West Scotland) (Reform) Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stafford, Pauline (Bathgate) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP) Thewliss, Alison (Glasgow Central) (SNP) Todd, Maree (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) The Presiding Officer: The result of the division on amendment S7M-00159.5, in the name of Liam McArthur is: For 25, Against 98, Abstentions 0.”
“Amendment disagreed to. The Presiding Officer: The next question is, that amendment S7M-00159.5, in the name of Liam McArthur, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00159, in the name of Stephen Gethins, entitled “It’s Scotland’s energy”, be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Presiding Officer: There will be a division.”
“For Bannerman, Max (Highlands and Islands) (Reform) Beresford, Senga (South Scotland) (Reform) Bland, Amanda (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Reform) Briggs, Miles (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Con) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Currie, Victor (Highlands and Islands) (Reform) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Findlay, Russell (West Scotland) (Con) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Con) Griffin, Mark (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Lab) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Hoy, Craig (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Stephen (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Kerr, Thomas (Glasgow) (Reform) Kirkwood, David (South Scotland) (Reform) Langan, Jamie (South Scotland) (Reform) Lindsay, Amanda (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Reform) Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con) MacDougall, Julie (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Reform) Massey, Duncan (North East Scotland) (Reform) McDade, Helen (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Reform) Offord, Malcolm (West Scotland) (Reform) Ross, Angela (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Reform) Schmulian, Kim (Glasgow) (Reform) Simpson, Graham (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Reform) Simpson, Mark (North East Scotland) (Reform) Smith, David (West Scotland) (Reform) Against Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) Ahmed, Irshad (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Lab) Anderson, Heather (Dundee City West) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire West and Levern Valley) (SNP) Baillie, Jackie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Barratt, David (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) Baxter, Andrew (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (LD) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North) (SNP) Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab) Black, Dawn (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Bonnar, Steven (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) Bouse, Gary (Falkirk West) (SNP) Brown, Alan (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Bruce, Holly (Glasgow Southside) (Green) Campbell, Kate (Edinburgh Eastern, Musselburgh and Tranent) (SNP) Campbell, Michelle (Renfrewshire North and Cardonald) (SNP) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Chou Turvey, Yi-pei (North East Scotland) (LD) Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab) Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh North Western) (LD) Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP) Day, Martyn (Falkirk East and Linlithgow) (SNP) Dijkstra-Downie, Sanne (Edinburgh Northern) (LD) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Kelvin and Maryhill) (SNP) Duane, Iris (Glasgow) (Green) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Dunlop, Duncan (South Scotland) (LD) Fagan, Joe (South Scotland) (Lab) Flynn, Stephen (Aberdeen Deeside and North Kincardine) (SNP) Gethins, Stephen (Dundee City East) (SNP) Ghani, Zen (Glasgow Cathcart and Pollok) (SNP) Gibson, Patricia (Cunninghame South) (SNP) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Goodlad, Hannah Mary (Shetland Islands) (SNP) Gray, Neil (Airdrie) (SNP) Green, David (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (LD) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Hagmann, Katie (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Harley, Adam (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (LD) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen and Cambuslang) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Kerr, Alex (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (SNP) Kerr, Calum (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) Kinross-O’Neill, Kayleigh (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Green) Kumar, Simita (Edinburgh South Western) (SNP) Leask, Kristopher (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Linden, David (Glasgow Baillieston and Shettleston) (SNP) Long, Joe (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) MacCallum, Morven-May (Highlands and Islands) (LD) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Green) MacKinnon, Donald (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (Lab) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh North Eastern and Leith) (SNP) Manivannan, Q (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Green) Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab) Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD) McKee, Cara (West Scotland) (Green) McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Easterhouse and Springburn) (SNP) McLennan, Paul (East Lothian Coast and Lammermuirs) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) McNeill, Pauline (Glasgow) (Lab) Melville, Lloyd (Angus South) (SNP) Merrick, Colm (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Middleton, Jack (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Mitchell, Laura (Moray) (SNP) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) Moodie, Laura (South Scotland) (Green) Nevens, Kate (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Green) Oswald, Kirsten (Eastwood) (SNP) Rennie, Willie (Fife North East) (LD) Roddick, Emma (Inverness and Nairn) (SNP) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Sangster, Katherine (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Lab) Sarwar, Anas (Glasgow) (Lab) Slater, Lorna (Edinburgh Central) (Green) Smith, Alyn (Stirling) (SNP) Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stafford, Pauline (Bathgate) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP) Thewliss, Alison (Glasgow Central) (SNP) Todd, Maree (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Young, Jenny (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Lab) The Presiding Officer: The result of the division on amendment S7M-00159.4, in the name of Liam Kerr, is: For 29, Against 95, Abstentions 0.”
“Amendment disagreed to. The Presiding Officer: I remind members that if the amendment in the name of Liam Kerr is agreed to, the amendment in the name of Liam McArthur will fall. The next question is, that amendment S7M- 00159.4, in the name of Liam Kerr, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00159, in the name of Stephen Gethins, entitled “It’s Scotland’s energy”, be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Presiding Officer: There will be a division.”
“On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I was unable to connect to the voting app. I would have voted no. The Presiding Officer: Your vote will be recorded. For Bruce, Holly (Glasgow Southside) (Green) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Duane, Iris (Glasgow) (Green) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Kinross-O’Neill, Kayleigh (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Green) Leask, Kristopher (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Green) Manivannan, Q (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Green) McKee, Cara (West Scotland) (Green) Moodie, Laura (South Scotland) (Green) Nevens, Kate (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Green) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Slater, Lorna (Edinburgh Central) (Green) Against Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) Ahmed, Irshad (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Lab) Anderson, Heather (Dundee City West) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire West and Levern Valley) (SNP) Baillie, Jackie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Bannerman, Max (Highlands and Islands) (Reform) Barratt, David (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) Baxter, Andrew (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (LD) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North) (SNP) Beresford, Senga (South Scotland) (Reform) Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab) Black, Dawn (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Bland, Amanda (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Reform) Bonnar, Steven (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) Bouse, Gary (Falkirk West) (SNP) Briggs, Miles (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Con) Brown, Alan (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Campbell, Kate (Edinburgh Eastern, Musselburgh and Tranent) (SNP) Campbell, Michelle (Renfrewshire North and Cardonald) (SNP) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Chou Turvey, Yi-pei (North East Scotland) (LD) Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab) Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh North Western) (LD) Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP) Currie, Victor (Highlands and Islands) (Reform) Day, Martyn (Falkirk East and Linlithgow) (SNP) Dijkstra-Downie, Sanne (Edinburgh Northern) (LD) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Kelvin and Maryhill) (SNP) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Dunlop, Duncan (South Scotland) (LD) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Fagan, Joe (South Scotland) (Lab) Findlay, Russell (West Scotland) (Con) Flynn, Stephen (Aberdeen Deeside and North Kincardine) (SNP) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Con) Gethins, Stephen (Dundee City East) (SNP) Ghani, Zen (Glasgow Cathcart and Pollok) (SNP) Gibson, Patricia (Cunninghame South) (SNP) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Goodlad, Hannah Mary (Shetland Islands) (SNP) Gray, Neil (Airdrie) (SNP) Green, David (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (LD) Griffin, Mark (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Lab) Hagmann, Katie (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Harley, Adam (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (LD) Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen and Cambuslang) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Hoy, Craig (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Kerr, Alex (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (SNP) Kerr, Calum (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Stephen (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Kerr, Thomas (Glasgow) (Reform) Kirkwood, David (South Scotland) (Reform) Kumar, Simita (Edinburgh South Western) (SNP) Langan, Jamie (South Scotland) (Reform) Linden, David (Glasgow Baillieston and Shettleston) (SNP) Lindsay, Amanda (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Reform) Long, Joe (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con) MacCallum, Morven-May (Highlands and Islands) (LD) MacDougall, Julie (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Reform) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) MacKinnon, Donald (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (Lab) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh North Eastern and Leith) (SNP) Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab) Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) Massey, Duncan (North East Scotland) (Reform) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD) McDade, Helen (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Reform) McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Easterhouse and Springburn) (SNP) McLennan, Paul (East Lothian Coast and Lammermuirs) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) McNeill, Pauline (Glasgow) (Lab) Melville, Lloyd (Angus South) (SNP) Merrick, Colm (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Middleton, Jack (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Mitchell, Laura (Moray) (SNP) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) Offord, Malcolm (West Scotland) (Reform) Oswald, Kirsten (Eastwood) (SNP) Rennie, Willie (Fife North East) (LD) Roddick, Emma (Inverness and Nairn) (SNP) Ross, Angela (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Reform) Sangster, Katherine (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Lab) Sarwar, Anas (Glasgow) (Lab) Schmulian, Kim (Glasgow) (Reform) Simpson, Graham (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Reform) Simpson, Mark (North East Scotland) (Reform) Smith, Alyn (Stirling) (SNP) Smith, David (West Scotland) (Reform) Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stafford, Pauline (Bathgate) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP) Thewliss, Alison (Glasgow Central) (SNP) Todd, Maree (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Young, Jenny (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Lab) The Presiding Officer: The result of the division on amendment S7M-00159.3, in the name of Lorna Slater is: For 15, Against 110, Abstentions 0.”
“He complained about constraint payments in the UK market while the Conservatives have turned us away from a pan-European market. I will try to be more generous to Liam McArthur, whose ongoing commitment to community benefit I take seriously. I want to work with him and with Kristopher Leask, who made a very good point on that issue. I have also had Hannah Mary Goodlad in my ear in that regard in relation to Shetland, and I know that other members will want to make sure that such benefit is felt across”
“[Interruption.] The Presiding Officer: As I said to one of Mr Massey’s colleagues, an intervention is not a speech within a speech. Stephen Gethins: As I said, 105,000 jobs rely on the renewables industry. Mr Massey’s—and our—constituents rely on it. There is a place for renewables. There is a place for the other industries as well, but those are jobs that we back. Richard Tice said that a Reform Government would strike down all renewables contracts, which would put people out of work and out of good jobs. Lorna Slater was absolutely right to call that out. I mentioned the issue of oil and gas being a finite resource from which we have not secured a long- term benefit. The less said about Liam Kerr’s speech the better.”
“Stephen Gethins: —as being on “faith-based terms” is a scandal. Nobody else in this Parliament should stand for that kind of nonsense. On that, I give way to him. Duncan Massey: First, to the dishonourable member— The Presiding Officer: Now, now. I do not think that you can say that, either. Come on. Duncan Massey: My speech was very clear. I acknowledged climate change and the IPCC. What I said was that “climate emergency” is not a term that is used in the scientific consensus. On Mr Gethins’s point about the CBI report, it has now been stated that the CBI does not support that report, which was done by a separate consultancy. I ask Mr Gethins directly whether he will stand up and back Jackdaw and Rosebank and support new drilling and new licences.”
“It takes some courage to be a North East Scotland MSP and to call for an end to net zero, which, only yesterday, a report said supports 105,000 jobs, many of which are in the area that he and I represent. Duncan Massey rose— Stephen Gethins: Let me tell him this—and he can sit down and listen for a moment: the CBI report that came out yesterday said that, in Aberdeen city, 9.4 per cent of gross value added came from net zero, as did 12.7 per cent of jobs in that fine granite city. I am delighted that the member for Aberdeen Deeside and North Kincardine will stand up for those kinds of job and that kind of economy. Duncan Massey rose— Stephen Gethins: I will let Duncan Massey in after this point. To describe climate change— The Presiding Officer: Mr Massey, stay seated until you are called by the member to take the intervention.”
“However, I thought that that was a huge pity. He talked about issues of consent. He also talked about grid capacity, and we have doubled the capacity. I encourage him to have a chat with his colleagues down the road at the UK Government about that—I will engage with them positively, and I encourage him to do the same. Daniel Johnson was fortunate in that he was followed by Duncan Massey. While I congratulate the honourable member for being in his place, can I say—[Interruption.] The Presiding Officer: “Honourable member”? Stephen Gethins: Forgive me, Presiding Officer—you have put me in the First Minister’s bad books now. [Laughter.] I congratulate the member. However, there is a serious point.”
“The Presiding Officer: I call Stephen Gethins to wind up the debate. 16:56 Stephen Gethins: Thank you, Presiding Officer. I did not have the opportunity to do so earlier, but I welcome you to your position—it is good to see you. I thank colleagues for engaging in today’s debate and I congratulate all those members who, like me, have made a first-time speech. I will tackle as many of those comments as I possibly can, one by one. The debate opened with Daniel Johnson. It was such a pity to hear the Labour Party talk about devolution—fundamentally, the issue is about where those powers sit—and saying that it is an incoherent motion. The motion is a straightforward one about where the best place is for those powers to lie. Daniel Johnson rose— Stephen Gethins: I will not take the member’s intervention at the moment.”
“We know that our North Sea assets, in which Russian submarines have threatened cabling in recent weeks, must be a defence priority. The extraction of Scotland from the UK defence capacity would require those further costs to be met at a time when investment must increase rather than decrease. That partnership across these islands is a difficult one. The challenge is generational and it requires a calm, reasoned dialogue from the Government, based on realistic analysis. I know that Michael Shanks, the UK Minister for Energy and member of Parliament for Rutherglen, has really valued the constructive engagement that he had with Gillian Martin, the minister’s predecessor, to build consensus on that work. I am sure that he can anticipate further collaboration with Stephen Gethins. However, the motion does not get that off to a great start.”
“We need a diverse energy mix and to go beyond questions of supply, capacity and baseload capacity. That requires a properly integrated system across the UK, which includes nuclear. There is no answer to our need for that crucial baseload capacity—we should, and must, retain our long-term position as an energy powerhouse in Europe and the UK. My colleague Paul Sweeney pointed that out, quoting Sir Donald Miller about the lack of a plan to replace our generation capacity. In Paul Sweeney’s words, it is incomprehensible. That supply has to be secure. I find the minister’s points on the security of supply inside Europe, but outside the UK, difficult to follow. Stephen Gethins: Why? Michael Marra: I will tell the member why.”
“Surely! Michael Marra: Surely not. However, what I have read of it, I did not like. I can leave that for Mr Harvie, and perhaps we can compare notes on it. If I can come back to Mr Massey’s contribution— Stephen Kerr: Will Michael Marra give way? Michael Marra: Not at the moment. Mr Massey’s point on Spain was well made, but I would take it a step further. He made a point about overreliance on intermittent capacity. However, Spain’s system failed because of frequency regulation, which was the inability to maintain a 50Hz current that regular turns of a turbine allow. What that tells us is that we require a diverse energy mix. France turned off the power supply from Spain in 3.5 seconds because of how vulnerable it made France’s economy and its households.”
“Karen Adam is absolutely right. I had a lovely visit with her to the Vinery in Banff and saw at first hand the tremendous positive impact that it has on the lives of individuals by tackling social isolation and helping individuals to overcome some of the mental wellbeing challenges that they are wrestling with. I would be happy to explore with Ms Adam the steps that the Government could take to try to intervene. The Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice and Housing would be able to engage on that issue, and we will explore what possibilities there are to safeguard the support that is available through the Vinery. The Presiding Officer: With apologies to those members I was unable to take today, that concludes First Minister’s question time. I suspend the meeting until 2.30. 12:46 Meeting suspended. 14:30 On resuming— Scotland’s Energy”
“I say that simply to respect the fact that I do not think that the Government should be passing judgment about the role of members of Parliament, as I do not think that that would be constitutionally appropriate. If Parliament wished us to consider it, I would be happy to do so. The”
“As Mr Simpson indicates, in principle, I am in support of a recall provision, and I think that it is necessary for it to be in place. I am open to the mechanism by which that is undertaken. I genuinely consider this to be a rather invidious issue for the Government to bring forward, because it affects the status of members of Parliament. Therefore, I would rather see provisions emerge through parliamentary discussions, as opposed to the initiative of a Government bill, for example. It may be an issue that the corporate body wishes to provide advice about. Essentially, I give Mr Simpson the assurance that the Government would be supportive of developing such a proposition, if we could agree on the most appropriate mechanism for doing that.”
“I am very concerned about the issue that Mr Brown raises. I am familiar with it and I provide him with the assurance that the Government’s resilience network is actively supporting Clackmannanshire Council on the question. The Mining Remediation Authority is actively engaged with the partnership in taking forward the support that is required. I acknowledge the distress, inconvenience and anxiety that the matter has caused to Mr Brown’s constituents. I provide him with the assurance that the Government will do all that it can to support the residents concerned, as well as Clackmannanshire Council. If there are any specific areas on which Mr Brown requires assistance from the Government, he knows that we will respond swiftly to any request that he makes of us. Recall of”
“Liam Kerr raises a serious issue. The prison population is at a very high level and the level of incarceration is very high. That is partly because of the success of the criminal justice authorities in prosecuting individuals for historical crimes and because of the length of sentences that have been applied. It gives rise to significant issues with prison capacity, which is being addressed directly. The Cabinet Secretary for Justice and I met to discuss the issue yesterday. It will be the source of focused work among partners to ensure that we take all the action that is necessary, so that the prison population can be stabilised and our prisons can operate safely for all concerned. Evacuation Support (Coalsnaughton)”
“I want to make sure that the lessons that are identified in the report are a source of challenge to all child protection committees in the country, because I agree fundamentally with Claire Baker’s point that it is simply beyond comprehension that such experiences could take place in 21st century Scotland with the policy framework that we have in place. We have to honestly face up to the institutional failure that is involved, and I give her the commitment that the Government will do so.”
“I find it difficult to comprehend how that could be the case, because the information was so obvious and so compelling, but it demonstrates an issue that has occurred in a number of cases on different occasions—the failure of institutions to make connections between information that comes together to therefore necessitate action and intervention. That is just one of the key points of learning that must come out of the report. The Cabinet Secretary for Education, Culture and Gaelic will meet the City of Glasgow Council to consider the issue, which was discussed at Cabinet on Tuesday.”
“I am grateful to Claire Baker for raising this important issue. I agree with her conclusions and her assessment of the report. What has been disclosed is absolutely terrible reading. I pay tribute at the outset to the children, who, from my reading of the report, have demonstrated extraordinary strength and tenacity in being able to convey the suffering that they have experienced. I express an unreserved apology to each of the children involved. It is clear from my reading of the report that there were serious institutional failures in understanding and connecting all the information that was available.”
“The Presiding Officer: Back benchers have been very well behaved, with short, sharp questions. I would like shorter and sharper responses, to allow more members to come in. Family C Learning”
“When I opened the renewable energy engineering centre for Hitachi Energy UK yesterday in the city of Glasgow, I had the opportunity to reinforce the message on the importance of creating a sense of common purpose in our economy to ensure that we all take measures that support the oil and gas sector and renewables and ensure that we accelerate the transition to net zero. We need to see practical measures taken to strengthen the financial viability of oil and gas activity, which comes through the removal of the energy profits levy, which is long overdue, and the acceleration of the steps to consenting around the grid, which is necessary for renewable energy developments. That will help to realise the ambitions that Laura Mitchell sets out, and I give her the assurance that the Scottish Government will argue for all those provisions.”
“I thank Laura Mitchell for her question and welcome her to her place in Parliament as the member for Moray. I look forward to her contribution. The issues that she raises in relation to renewable energy and oil and gas are central to the economic interests of her constituency, and I know that she will champion them effectively in this Parliament. I welcome the CBI report. With the Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Tourism and Transport, I had the opportunity to reflect at the CBI’s annual Scottish lunch last Friday on the importance of a collaboration between Government, business, our renewable energy and oil and gas companies, our universities, our local authorities and other players in our economy.”
“I encourage the University of Aberdeen to engage constructively with all interested parties to ensure that that is the case. The Minister for Innovation, Technology and Tertiary Education, Ben Macpherson, would be very happy to meet the trade unions. We will make arrangements for that to happen. Renewables Industry (Jobs)”
“The points that Maggie Chapman makes are very important, because the Gillies report found that there were significant issues. The report looked into issues at the University of Dundee, which were of an exceptional character. Nonetheless, the process that is being undertaken by the University of Aberdeen to ensure that it is able to sustain its activities must be carried out in line with the principles that the Government expects and that are contained in the Gillies report. The University of Aberdeen operates as an arm’s-length independent institution, so it is responsible for its own governance. However, ministers would expect the University of Aberdeen—and any university—to take due account of the issues that were set out in the Gillies review and the terms of the availability of funding through the Scottish Funding Council.”
“There is now a strong and compelling argument for the motion that we will debate this afternoon, which is on the importance of ensuring that the energy-generating potential of Scotland is in Scotland’s hands, so that people can benefit from the strength of Scottish energy. Gillies Report (University of Aberdeen)”