John Swinney
Scottish National Party · Scotland
“Since the report from several years ago was published, the Government has presided over the passage of legislation to rationalise that area of activity. Work is under way to transfer the responsibility for the funding of further education student support from the Scottish Funding Council to the Student Awards Agency Scotland.”
“I appreciate the urgency of the general policy elements of the question, because a number of applications are now being considered by planning authorities. My view is that, given the concerns that have been expressed by planning authorities, the Government has to be responsive to the issue.”
“For as long as we do not have a proper strategy on prison capacity, rehabilitation and clearing the court backlog, early release will be a revolving door, with people going in, coming out and going back into our prisons. Our justice system is in crisis, so we need a strategy.”
“I associate myself unreservedly Mr Cole-Hamilton’s comments about the feelings in the Muslim community. On Monday, I visited the Broomhouse mosque along with Simita Kumar and the Annandale Street mosque in Edinburgh with Ben Macpherson.”
“The development of further guidance will be undertaken in a manner consistent with the ruling by Lady Ross. Malcolm Offord: I thank the First Minister for his answer, which was more comprehensive than I expected.”
“I am a huge supporter of apprenticeship programmes. With foundation apprenticeships and graduate apprenticeships, the Government has brought forward important reforms that create new and successful pathways for young people. I am determined to make sure that every young person has that desirable pathway for their future.”
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“I am grateful to Colin Smyth’s constituent for the efforts that he has made to keep himself fit and healthy. That is a good example to set. The Government has put in place additional funding to national health service boards to deliver more procedures during this financial year. The target was to deliver 64,000 procedures, and we have delivered more than 75,500 surgeries and procedures to the end of January 2025, which means that we have exceeded the original plans on delivery. As a consequence of the Government’s budget and the work that is under way through the NHS improvement plan, we are expanding the capacity that is available in the health service, we are expanding the volume of procedures that are being undertaken and we are taking action to reduce the waiting times that Colin Smyth has asked me about today.”
“I am familiar with the issues that Mr Carson raises with me. There will be dialogue and engagement with health ministers on that question. Many of the points are related to judgments that are made about clinical safety. I hope that the Parliament accepts that the Government must take seriously the advice that we receive on clinical safety around the number of births that take place in particular areas and the degree of specialism that will be provided. I assure Mr Carson that the Government will always consider very carefully the clinical advice that we are given in that respect. Trauma and Orthopaedic Surgery Waiting Times (NHS Dumfries and Galloway)”
“The work that Emma Harper has undertaken on the issue is important and helps the situation. There are other steps. The Scottish outdoor access code sets out how to exercise access rights responsibly when walking dogs in the countryside. The Government and NatureScot will continue to promote responsible dog ownership across radio and social media platforms as part of the on-going communication campaigns on the issue. I hope that that will help in the situation that Emma Harper puts to me today. Maternity Services (NHS Dumfries and Galloway)”
“We have had discussions with the Foreign Secretary on this question. I personally raised the issue with the Indian Government when I was in India in previous years. As Jackie Baillie correctly says, the matter has been on-going for many years. Without prejudging proceedings in any way, I acknowledge that the initial court case must be providing welcome hope to the family. I send them my warmest wishes in the hope that that can be sustained. Access Rights (Protection of Livestock)”
“There has been an increase in energy prices since the election, when people were promised that there would be reductions in energy prices. That is a matter of deep regret. High energy prices are the single greatest driver of fuel poverty in Scotland. Those are the realities that people are wrestling with. That is why it is important that we invest in our energy infrastructure and that what comes from that energy infrastructure is assistance in reducing the cost of energy for individuals in Scotland, so that the cost is not the burden that it is today, as Audrey Nicoll set out. Jagtar”
“The UCAN SURE unit has been designed to provide rapid diagnosis for patients. It is intended that the unit will be taken forward within the existing resources of NHS Grampian. I am keen to make sure that there is progress in that respect at the earliest opportunity. I also point out to Mr Kerr that if he wants more money spent on NHS Grampian, he should have voted for the Government’s budget, which he failed to do. This is just another example of how the Conservatives come to Parliament and plead for something but are not prepared to vote for it. Energy Prices (Infrastructure Investment)”
“She will observe the debate as much as I do and will see that when such proposals are brought forward, they are sometimes met with ferocious resistance. I am happy to encourage a mature dialogue in Parliament about how we can take action to address the legitimate point that Carol Mochan raises, which fuels inequality in our country. It is essential that we address the issue to improve outcomes for individuals in our society.”
“That hinders economic activity and costs the national health service millions of pounds each year. The Government consulted on restricting promotions of food and drink that is high in fat, sugar and salt. The consultation closed in May 2024, yet the Parliament is still waiting for the independent analysis of the consultation responses. When will the Government publish the analysis and introduce vital regulation to stop Scotland falling even further behind? The First Minister: The research analysis will be published shortly, and we are happy to explore the issues that it raises with Parliament. Carol Mochan alights on an issue where we need to be prepared to have a mature discussion about the issues and the questions that are raised.”
“The Government is committed to improving healthy life expectancy and addressing the underlying inequalities that contribute to health disparities. Tackling poverty and inequality remains the best way to improve population health outcomes and life expectancy, and the eradication of child poverty is my Government’s number 1 priority. The budget that was recently passed prioritises action to address inequality at its roots, including investment in breakfast clubs and employability initiatives, and by developing systems that will effectively remove the two-child limit. Carol Mochan: Scotland has the highest obesity rates in the United Kingdom, which disproportionately affects our most deprived communities and harms the physical and mental wellbeing of millions of people.”
“I have put on record the discussions that we are having about the University of West of Scotland, which will continue in the period ahead.”
“With the greatest of respect, I do not think that the Conservatives have been demonstrating in any way, shape or form a grown-up contribution to the discussion that is taking place—[Interruption.] I know that the Conservatives do not like me pointing out such home truths, but I will continue to point out the home truths, because the Conservatives are absolutely riddled— [Interruption.] The Presiding Officer: This is no way to conduct our business. Several members are interested in asking supplementary questions, and I will simply not be able to take everyone if we have this disturbance. The First Minister: The Government will engage constructively in discussions about university finances. We do that on all such issues. The Government is immersed in discussions about the University of Dundee.”
“Will the First Minister agree to calls from right across the sector that now is the time for an urgent, grown-up, cross-party and level-headed conversation about the current funding model? Our world-leading universities want it, need it and deserve it. The First Minister: Mr Greene knows that I take very seriously the issues around university funding. I also take seriously the points put by him with, as always, courtesy and respect. However, I have to point out that the Conservatives voted against the Government’s recent budget and the £1.1 billion that we are investing in the university sector and called for tax cuts that would have reduced the available public funding by £1 billion.”
“The reality is that the shocking news from the University of Dundee this week came as a bitter blow to staff, but it is really no surprise to anyone, because the current state of university finances has been a long time coming. Eight out of Scotland’s 18 universities are currently reporting deficits, which total more than £220 million. This week, Chris Deerin of the think tank Reform Scotland described recent events as “a wake-up call”. He is right. He perfectly sums up what now needs to happen. Politicians, the Government and the Opposition need to come together and accept some fundamental truths. Their inaction will result in more jobs, courses and even institutions going under. Given that a quarter of university funding comes from public funding, is it time to grab the bull by the horns?”
“The University of the West of Scotland wrote to the Minister for Higher and Further Education in January regarding its organisational change project and multiyear recovery plan, which are seeking to return the university to reporting a surplus in 2026-27. The Scottish Funding Council, on behalf of the Government, will continue to work closely with the university as it pursues that plan. I greatly value the contribution made by our universities. That is why we are investing, in the budget, more than £1.1 billion in university teaching and research, and it is why we announced an additional £15 million of financial transactions for the Scottish Funding Council in February to support the sector. Jamie Greene: I give credit to the staff at the UWS, but I also give credit to the 40,000 staff right across the higher education sector in Scotland.”
“Could the Scottish Government make it a condition of any planning consent that those affected by where pylons are to be located should at least benefit from local energy pricing? The First Minister: The specific issue that Christine Grahame puts to me relates to energy pricing, which is a reserved matter, so an interaction would have to take place with the UK Government and be resolved. We expect any transmission owner to fully consult local communities and the relevant statutory and local bodies regarding proposals for development before submitting applications, including for pylons, and we expect all of the dialogue to take place to ensure that the voice of the community is heard in every respect.”
“The Scottish Government does not anticipate any potential impact on planning legislation arising from the UK Government’s proposal to provide bill discounts to people who live near electricity infrastructure. The UK Government’s figures suggest that fewer than 1 per cent of households will be eligible for a discount under the planned scheme. The Scottish Government believes that it is absolutely essential that communities see a positive, lasting legacy from the infrastructure that they host. Scotland has made good progress on that already through our voluntary approach to community benefits. Christine Grahame: I think that most people who were offered up to £250—because it is only up to £250—off their energy bill to agree to having a pylon in their back garden would consider it a cheap and insulting bribe.”
“Measures and mechanisms are available to individuals to challenge rent increases that they experience as a consequence of the existing legislative framework, but the Government is going further by introducing rent controls, and I look forward to the Parliament scrutinising and supporting the legislation. Power Infrastructure (Discounts) 4.”
“Is it not also becoming increasingly clear that they cannot rely on the Scottish Government to protect them from energy bills or rent hikes? The First Minister: What I hope individuals hear is that the Government, in its budget, which Mr Harvie supported, is committing to delivering more than £300 million of investment in the heat in buildings programme. That is a huge amount of public money being invested in lowering the costs of domestic heating for individuals, and that financial support is available as part of our financial programme. In relation to housing, the Government has committed to bringing in rent controls and we will do that. The proposed legislation is currently being scrutinised in the Parliament. It will provide protection for individuals through rent controls.”
“If people get the help that they need to make the change, they can save as much as half of their heating bills, which is something that most people would jump at. However, at the same time as the First Minister is talking about fuel poverty, he is also going to be hammering everyone who rents from a private landlord. From 1 April, at the same time as energy bills are about to rise again, the First Minister is about to permit uncontrolled rent increases on top of that, and he is proposing new rules to make sure that even the highest rents are going to keep on rising even faster than inflation. People cannot cope with today’s bills, and many will not cope with the benefit cuts that Labour has in store for them.”
“We need to take action that will decarbonise homes at the same time as it will reduce fuel poverty, and that commitment will be at the heart of the Government’s agenda, as part of our sustained efforts to fulfil our commitments on climate action. Lastly, Mr Harvie asked me about investors. I want to make it clear to investors that the Scottish Government is absolutely committed to our agenda on climate action and will support and bring forward measures to enable that agenda. Patrick Harvie: That is the opposite of the message that investors and businesses are getting at the moment. The First Minister knows that the Green plan was always for financial support for households and for clear regulations. Both are essential, but we now know that the Government is not going to do either.”
“I appreciate that there are strongly held views on the issue, and I want to provide some reassurance to the Parliament today. The Government will introduce a heat in buildings bill when we are satisfied that the interventions in it will be able to decrease fuel poverty at the same time as they decarbonise houses. That is the commitment that the Acting Cabinet Secretary for Net Zero and Energy gave to Parliament on Tuesday, and I reiterate it today. One thing that has changed—Mr Harvie is absolutely right on this—is that, since the original discussions about the proposed heat in buildings bill, the cost of energy has increased very significantly indeed. As a consequence of that, we have increased levels of fuel poverty.”
“I simply point out to Mr Sarwar that nuclear weapons are held by a number of countries just now, but that has not stopped the conflict that is taking place in Ukraine at this very moment. What we need in order to ensure that we can repel Russian aggression is effective conventional forces. On the conventional forces of the United Kingdom, the previous Government promised in 2014 to increase the number of Scotland-based personnel in the regular armed forces to 12,500 by 2020. That was not met, so I am not going to stand here and take lectures from Mr Sarwar about the actions of the United—[Interruption.]”
“Keeping our country safe should be the first priority for any Government, but is it not the case that, whether on economic security, energy security or national security, the SNP’s policies would make our country less safe and less secure? The First Minister: First, I welcome the fact that we are in a better position today regarding resolution of the war in Europe than we were when we met seven days ago. That is helpful and comes as a consequence of the engagement that has been undertaken and that was the subject of a discussion I had on Tuesday with the Foreign Secretary at the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office in London to consider the steps that are being taken. I place that point on the record. Secondly, it is important that we have the defence forces and requirements that are necessary for our times.”
“Anas Sarwar: Last week, the SNP’s former Westminster leader, Ian Blackford, urged John Swinney and his party to reconsider their position on the Trident nuclear deterrent. Mr Blackford said: “When the facts change, careful consideration of our response is appropriate.” However, rather than taking on that point, John Swinney dismissed it. At a time when there is a war on our continent and the world is growing increasingly dangerous, the SNP’s position is that we should give up our nuclear deterrent now while countries such as Russia hold on to theirs. This is not a time for rigid ideologies but for serious and pragmatic leadership.”
“On dialogue with the defence industry, the Deputy First Minister yesterday met the delivery board on the national strategy for economic transformation. Sir Simon Lister of BAE Systems is a member of that board, which is discussing the very issues that Mr Sarwar has put to me regarding the importance of enhancing the skills offering for the defence sector. The Government is engaging in those discussions. Part of our duty is to ensure that the country is secure and safe. The Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs is also bringing to Cabinet proposals that will expand the extent of our involvement in resilience—in particular, in cyberresilience, in which the country faces enormous threats. The Cabinet will regularly engage in updating our approach to ensure that we are safe in every respect.”
“So, will John Swinney re-examine his red lines, support our defence sector, ensure our energy security and back our nuclear deterrent? The First Minister: There were a number of points made there. Mr Sarwar knows my position on the nuclear deterrent—I do not believe that nuclear weapons should form part of the defence approach that we take forward. Mr Sarwar asked me a number of substantive questions about skills. The Government invests heavily in a number of elements to enhance manufacturing capability in Scotland. The National Manufacturing Institute Scotland, which is on the outskirts of Glasgow airport, makes an important contribution to creating opportunities for investment in advanced manufacturing.”
“The reality is that much of the skilled labour in Scotland’s defence industry is coming from abroad on temporary contracts because we are not equipping Scots with the skills that they need. Grown-up serious politicians must rise to this generation-defining moment and be willing to re- examine previous red lines. Our defence industry is worth £3.2 billion to the Scottish economy every year and directly supports 33,000 jobs, but this Scottish National Party Government’s approach to Scotland’s defence sector has been at best uncomfortable and at times hostile. My fear is that the world has changed, but the SNP has not. We must all rise to this moment and ensure that we are never at the mercy of dictators such as Putin.”
“I do believe that, and that system is what the Government is determined to ensure is in place. We work closely with employers to ensure that our skills approach—particularly regarding the reforms to apprenticeships that we have undertaken in recent years to create foundation and graduate apprenticeships and to expand the range of possibilities that are in place for young people in the education system, coupled with the very close work between the business community and colleges around the country—will ensure that we have the skills that are necessary for the 21st century. Anas Sarwar: I welcome the First Minister’s constructive approach, but the facts do not match his stated position.”
“If there is a single word that defines Nicola Sturgeon and her politics, it is “division”. She pitted Scot against Scot in her obsessive attempts to break up our great country—[Interruption.]”
“Indeed, we see clear signs about the future performance of the education system: we have a record-low poverty-related attainment gap in primary school literacy and in secondary 3 literacy and numeracy. While Mr Findlay works his way through different aspects of the record of the Government of which I have been proud to be a member—and in which I was proud to serve as Nicola Sturgeon’s education secretary and Deputy First Minister—he should remember that there has been a 44 per cent increase in the number of 18-year-olds from deprived backgrounds going to university in this country. I am proud that we have widened access to Scottish education. Russell Findlay: There we have it—a First Minister who stands there and declares that he is proud of failure.”
“I will start with Scotland’s once world-leading education system, which is now more interested in teaching pupils about pronouns and feelings than about literacy and numeracy. Nicola Sturgeon is responsible for Scotland’s place in league tables plummeting and for failing Scotland’s poorest pupils. She said that she would eliminate the attainment gap, but it remains as wide as the Clyde. Will Nicola Sturgeon’s education secretary, John Swinney, admit that, together, they have failed a generation of young people? The First Minister: No, I will not, because that is not the case. The poverty-related attainment gap has reduced by 67 per cent since 2009-10 under the leadership of this Government.”
“Nicola Sturgeon gave very strong leadership to Scotland during some really difficult times. She took forward a large number of policy innovations that have made Scotland a better country than we have been in the past. I noticed that, yesterday, there was a gracefulness—I suspect that this will be the tone of today’s exchanges—in the responses of Mr Sarwar, Mr Cole-Hamilton, Mr Harvie and Ms Slater to the service of Scotland’s first female First Minister and the longest-serving First Minister. I notice that that graceful tone has been jeopardised by Russell Findlay. Russell Findlay: John Swinney appears to have misheard my first question—or maybe he just finds it impossible to pick from Nicola Sturgeon’s vast back catalogue of failures—so let me help him.”
“The annual day of reflection offers us all the opportunity to remember lives lost, to reflect on the sacrifice of many and to provide space for people to consider their experiences of the pandemic in a way that suits them best. On Sunday, as always, we will remember. 14:35”
“I pay tribute to Connie, Peter McMahon and Carolyn Murdoch, who serve as the group’s administrators, for all that they do on behalf of the families affected to ensure that the legacy of their loved ones lives on. To support that legacy, in 2021, the Scottish Government funded the Remembering Together project, which commissioned creative practitioners and artists in all 32 local authority areas to co- create Covid-19 memorial projects. The Remembering Together project is about being part of a process to commemorate those who have lost their lives and those who have experienced loss and whose lives were changed for ever.”
“It is our solemn duty, as leaders and as public servants, to mark the day of reflection and to ensure that those who died are remembered by us all. In May 2022, it was my great privilege to attend the unveiling of Scotland’s national Covid memorial—the “I remember” walk in Glasgow’s Pollok park. At that event, I was struck by the dignity and strength of those who had suffered loss in such difficult circumstances. On Sunday, I will attend a memorial in Glasgow and lay a wreath in memory of those who lost their lives. The commemoration is organised by Covid-19 families Scotland, a group of bereaved families that was founded by Connie McCready during the pandemic.”
“The day of reflection gives us an opportunity to remember the suffering that was endured during the pandemic, to remember the impact that was felt by all in our society, to remember the fear that we all experienced and to remember the heroic actions of many to support us all. The day of reflection has its origins in the recommendations of the UK commission on Covid commemoration and in the work of Marie Curie. I put on record my thanks to both groups for all that they have done to support bereaved families and to ensure that, as a nation, we continue to make time to remember those who lost their lives. Today, as First Minister, I express my deepest condolences to all those who lost family and friends, including those who are able to join us in the gallery today.”
“The annual day of reflection for Covid commemoration takes place this Sunday, 9 March. This year marks the fifth anniversary of the outbreak of the Covid- 19 pandemic in Scotland and across the United Kingdom. This is a significant milestone, and I welcome the opportunity to gather in the chamber to remember all those who have been affected. The day of reflection offers a chance to come together to remember everyone who died during the pandemic. Losing a loved one is one of the greatest challenges that many of us will experience, and we know all too well that those who experienced bereavement and grief during the pandemic faced unique challenges, dealing with loss and grief at a distance.”
“I acknowledge that those are difficult comparisons to make, but they are part of the judgments that the Government has to arrive at on how we attract the leadership to safeguard the important asset that is Scottish Water. Orthopaedics”
“On the question of bonuses, because we have explained all the details to Parliament, Mr Leonard will be familiar with the point that, when it comes to the recruitment of leadership for Scottish Water, we are invariably in competition with other water companies around the United Kingdom. In that competition, the element of bonuses is part of the fabric of the financial settlements that are available to attract employees. Comparatively, bonus payments for the leadership of Scottish Water are much lower than those in other parts of the United Kingdom and the performance of Scottish Water is much higher than that of companies in other parts of the United Kingdom.”
“The first thing that I will say is that I saw during the week news that Mr Leonard intends not to seek re- election to Parliament. I express my warmest wishes to him and commend him for his service in the Scottish Parliament, which has been full of impact on many issues—including some of the issues that he puts to me on behalf of employees in Scotland today—for which I have the greatest respect. Strike action at Scottish Water is obviously a matter for Scottish Water. I encourage the Scottish Water leadership and trade unions to try to find a solution that avoids disruption.”
“I reassure Mr Doris that the Government is taking forward work that involves the design of systems to enable us to lift the two-child cap, which is one of the policy priorities and commitments in the Government’s budget for the coming year. That is under way and we are making the necessary progress on it. Obviously, that measure will help us to lift children out of poverty. That will not be assisted by some of the speculation that we have heard over the past few days about significant reductions in the welfare budget, which will undoubtedly have the effect of jeopardising the incomes of households in Scotland and, particularly, affect child poverty levels in our country. Scottish Water (Strike Action)”
“It is important that we continue to make progress on the issue. I welcome the fact that the 18-week target was met in the final quarter of 2024. To respond to the specific question that Clare Haughey put to me, £123 million has been allocated through the enhanced mental health outcomes framework in the budget for next year, which I hope will help to continue to build on the progress that has been made in the current financial year. NHS Highland (Vascular Surgery)”
“We will update members, including Rhoda Grant, on any response from the Government to those proposals. Child and Adolescent Mental”
“I am very familiar with the issues that Rhoda Grant raises with me. I had discussions about that question when I was in South Uist some years ago, and I saw correspondence last night, which was sent to me by the local member, Dr Alasdair Allan, in relation to the very issues that have been raised by the South Uist business community. I am sorry for the disruption that is being felt. We believed that, at this point, we would be in a stronger position with the resilience of the ferry network, but there have been delays regarding some of the ferries that we expected to be delivered—Rhoda Grant will be familiar with those issues, and Parliament has been advised of them. I am considering the proposals that have been put to me by the South Uist business community, as is the Cabinet Secretary for Transport.”
“The concessionary bus travel scheme has been an unparalleled success. It has, crucially, given young people much greater mobility in our society and has enabled them to access a much wider range of employment and training opportunities around the country. That will have a profound effect in all communities in the country, and I know that the effect that it has had in the Paisley constituency will be precious to Mr Adam. From my dialogue with young people, I know about the positive impact of the policy instrument and the way in which it has increased opportunities and life chances for young people in Scotland. Islands (Resilience Fund)”
“I value the work that police officers undertake in Scotland, and we support Police Scotland with the financial resources to enable it to deliver its services across the country. The chief constable has put in place a variety of measures to support the mental health and wellbeing of police officers. That is undertaken through an employee assistance programme, which focuses on mental health support and provides enhanced occupational health services for police officers. The your wellbeing matters programme offers a range of services to care for the psychological, physical, social and financial wellbeing of police officers, and I welcome the impact that that has on supporting police officers. Concessionary Bus”
“It is vital that we do all that we can to ensure that we take steps on the issue. We will consider any decision that is made by the United Kingdom Government on the definition of Islamophobia and will consider any implications of that decision for our approach to adopting a definition.”
“However, Muslim communities across the UK and Scotland are now facing hatred at a higher level than ever. The UK Labour Government has convened a working group on Islamophobia, which will create a definition of it. Will the Scottish Government adopt that definition? When will we see real progress on the implementation of the recommendations from the inquiry into Islamophobia from the cross-party group on tackling Islamophobia? The First Minister: Two recommendations were levelled at the Scottish Government in the cross-party group’s report. One was to increase the understanding of Islamophobia in the curriculum in our schools, and the other was to ensure that the public sector equality duty was enforced in schools. I assure Mr Choudhury that those priorities are being taken forward by the Scottish Government.”
“The rise in anti-Muslim hate incidents is of serious concern. The Scottish Government unequivocally condemns all forms of Islamophobia and the impact that it has on individuals, families and communities. That is why we work co-operatively with a range of partners to tackle such pernicious behaviour. Our hate crime strategy and the associated delivery plan include strategic priorities for tackling hate crime and Islamophobia in Scotland. Importantly, the strategy was informed by those with lived experience of Islamophobia, which is central to understanding the challenges that we face. Foysol Choudhury: The First Minister will know that last Friday was the beginning of Ramadan, which is a time of reflection, peace and hope for Muslims in Scotland and worldwide.”
“I hope that that gives Annie Wells assurance that it will now be woven into the approach that the Government and Police Scotland are taking. I reassure Annie Wells that there is a very high conviction rate for drug driving. In 2022-23, 95 per cent, which is a very high level, of those who were accused were convicted as a consequence of charges being brought. I accept unreservedly the member’s point about the necessity of raising awareness of the dangers of drug driving. We will ensure that that is reflected in the overall messaging on the issue. Islamophobia 6.”