← LEADERSHIP TERMINAL

UK PARLIAMENT · FORMER

Willie Rennie

Scottish Liberal Democrats · Scotland

IN THEIR OWN WORDS

Daniel Johnson’s remarks were powerful, and he identified an issue that is sometimes uncomfortable and that we need to address. The country faces difficult issues, and we do ourselves no favours by ignoring those issues. Some of the points that Daniel Johnson made about immigration were right, and we need to discuss them.

MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2026-06-24 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

Again, Daniel Johnson highlighted that when he talked about comments on “fighting- age men”, “strangers” and “two-tier policing”. We know what those terms mean and what they are appealing to. Thomas Kerr: Will the member take an intervention? Willie Rennie: Yes, I will take an intervention from Mr Charmer himself.

MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2026-06-24 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

I understand that a German company will now use the Dalzell plant as a jobbing mill, importing 4,000 tonnes of slab from a foreign supplier outside the UK instead of purchasing that slab from Scunthorpe. All that raises serious questions about an important part of the steel industry in Scotland.

MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2026-06-23 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

It is important for the UK Government that there is learning from the process and that the circumstances of our Parliament—for example, when we re-form following an election—are not an afterthought in relation to the UK Government’s formulation of its approach to legislation and when it decides to introduce it.

MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2026-06-23 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

So far, the Scottish Government has not been formally asked to provide support, but I advise the member and the chamber that the issue was part of my discussions with the UK Government minister yesterday. The legislation extends to Scotland, and the steel undertaking would capture the site.

MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2026-06-23 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

Will that be repaid, and at what point? When will we have a proper functioning mill—the only wide-plate mill in the United Kingdom—at Dalzell? When will it have a constructive relationship with the Scunthorpe plant? All those issues should be at the front of the Government’s mind, but, as usual, it is not paying attention.

MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2026-06-23 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

The complete record

Every one of 861 lines we hold for Willie Rennie, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 13 of 18.

  1. I was pleased to hear the cabinet secretary say that it is not the fault of the workers. That leaves the leadership. Who appointed the leadership? Who brought in the new owner of the yard? Who bought the yard? It was the Scottish Government, yet the cabinet secretary acts as though it is nothing to do with her. The soaring costs mean that it is now £1 million per worker to build those two ferries. With all the things that she said about the performance of the Government when she was on the back benches, is Kate Forbes surprised that not one minister has resigned as a result of the fiasco? Kate Forbes: I understand the strength of Willie Rennie’s question.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-05-14 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  2. We have known that this was coming for a long time, so why is everything so reactive and so delayed? We need to focus on delivery rather than all the rhetoric about the North Sea. I do not know how many times we have had this debate, in which we say the same things over and over again. We need consistency of message as well as consistency of, and early action on, delivery. We also need to stick with the plan, ensuring that it is done and that it has the funding to make it happen. Otherwise, people out there will be utterly confused about what this Parliament is saying. The Deputy Presiding Officer: We move to the open debate. 17:01

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-05-14 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  3. I am afraid that it was one of the rare occasions when Mike Rumbles was right—we should have had that in place a long time ago. We need to get more people on to public transport, but it takes years to get any strategy that is consistent and that works over time. On renewables, we need to make the consenting process much more swift and ensure that we have the infrastructure, including housing, in place to house the workers. We also need to improve the supply chain. Gillian Martin: Will the member take an intervention? Willie Rennie: I have only four minutes. We need to make sure that the supply chain is there in Scotland. Some of it is working, but, in places such as BiFab, we have failed miserably. We implemented an offshore wind skills programme through the budget process, but why has that skills programme not been in place for years?

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-05-14 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  4. Willie Rennie: It would, as would a bit of consistency from the Conservative Party. I sometimes get the impression that the debate is more about trying to save the future of the Conservative Party than it is about the North Sea. I am afraid that that happens too often. We need to understand that we are trying to get a comprehensive strategy that works. I would like, for instance, Home Energy Scotland to improve its act and get the grants out the door much more quickly for those installers who are desperate to put heat pumps in place. I would love to have had a future of agricultural support mechanism in place to help farmers to reduce their climate change emissions on farms, but it took years to get that into place.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-05-14 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  5. I remember that, during the 2021 elections, we were debating energy. At the time, all parties agreed that it was about cutting demand rather than about dealing with the supply—apart from Patrick Harvie, I have to say, who was in favour of dealing with the supply as well. It was about trying to deal with domestic energy use, and there was also a real focus on transportation. It then flipped and we dealt with energy bills. Ukraine came along and we had another set of priorities. We must be a bit more consistent in the Parliament and ensure that the outside world understands our direction of travel. Too often, I am afraid, we are buffeted, and that needs to change. Douglas Lumsden: Do you think that the energy strategy would help to clarify where we are going as a country? The Deputy Presiding Officer: Through the chair.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-05-14 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  6. I knew that the debate was going to be an emotional one, but I never thought that Alexander Burnett would start smashing glasses on the floor in response to Patrick Harvie’s commentary. This is darker than I ever thought possible. We have multiple objectives here, but sometimes we look at the issues in isolation. Today, we are concerned about the jobs in the North Sea; on other occasions, we look at energy bills or at energy security; and, on other occasions, we look at climate change. Rarely do we have a proper comprehensive discussion about all of those issues at once. I accept that some do that, but we, in the Parliament, are buffeted. Investors, campaigners and people who are responsible for trying to turn back the tide on climate change get inconsistent messages from this place.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-05-14 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  7. The final bit is resources, which we know is tough. We have supported the budget this year in order to try and get more support into the classroom. However, when decisions are made about budgets, we need to consider things in the round to ensure that we are providing the appropriate level of support to make a difference. The Deputy Presiding Officer: We move to the open debate, with back-bench speeches of up to four minutes. 15:52

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-05-14 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  8. The mainstreaming review needs to look at the fact that the presumption of mainstreaming is almost turning into a compulsion of mainstreaming. Some parents do not want that for their child and do not think that being in the class is suitable for their child. Karen Adam: Will the member take an intervention? Willie Rennie: I have only four minutes. They would prefer for them to get a specialist level of support, but it is felt that the cost that would be involved in that is prohibitive. Local authorities are therefore pushing the child into the mainstream, which does not suit them, and does not suit the rest of the class either. The behavioural action plan needs to start working. We are way behind in terms of even the guidance that is to be implemented before we deliver the actual change. We need to take much swifter steps on behaviour.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-05-14 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  9. All of this—absence, ASN, behaviour and violence—is interconnected. It is no surprise that pupils will want to stay away from school if they are not getting the appropriate support, or if they are getting violently abused, or if there is bad behaviour against them, or if they are not able to get taught properly. It is no surprise, and all those things are feeding into one another. We need a solution that works. Part of that is about resource in the classroom. A teacher of 30 pupils will, on average, have 12 pupils who have an identified special need. Sometimes the number is much higher than that, and there is not one single need, but a variety of needs, so teachers need to be skilled in a whole range of different areas. That is almost impossible for them to manage. So, what steps do we need to take?

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-05-14 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  10. It is a good step that the Government is accepting the review of mainstreaming, but we should have recognised the issue years ago, as it was raised on a regular basis by teachers, who were feeling it even back then. That was before the pandemic—we cannot blame it on the pandemic. This issue has been brewing for a long time, and I am afraid that we have ignored teachers. It was a taboo, but now it is open, and I think that we are willing to explore it. When the cabinet secretary concludes, I would like to hear from her when the review will start, when it will conclude, and whether it will contain what Ross Greer highlighted—namely, practical actions for delivery. We have had review after review after review, but we need to have actions that make a difference. I will talk about one other issue before I move on to practical solutions.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-05-14 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  11. I start with a letter from a primary school teacher to the First Minister: “When I started teaching, inclusion was becoming more and more the norm within schools. Now that there are very few specialist schools, teachers are feeling the effects of inclusion on a daily basis. This policy, whilst admirable in its intention, does not work as it is drastically underfunded. In my school, it is fairly common for teachers to be physically assaulted by children whose needs cannot be met due to the inadequate level of funding. It’s even more common for our teachers to be verbally abused.” That letter is from 2018, and it was anonymous at the time, because the teacher felt that if she raised the issues, she would be criticised for being anti- mainstream and anti-inclusion. I think that we have moved on.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-05-14 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  12. I will keep on trying to persuade Mr Rennie of the advantages of being a normal country. It is for him to spell out how federalism would work in a multinational context, in which 85 per cent of the population live in one part of it. There is not a single example of that working anywhere in the world. I would be happy to hear Mr Rennie explain how his plans would work. Museums Capacity and Support Programme 8.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-05-14 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  13. I am not sure why the SNP continues to return to the scene of the crime to check that the body is really dead. David Phillips, from the Institute for Fiscal Studies, warns that full fiscal autonomy would result in “difficult fiscal trade-offs”, so why would SNP ministers even contemplate that, when they are already complaining that they do not have enough money? Angus Robertson: It is not a very difficult concept to grasp, although I know that, over the years, Willie Rennie has had great difficulty in accepting, or understanding, it. We on the SNP benches believe that decisions about Scotland’s economic and social progress are best made here. Willie Rennie does not—he thinks that the major decisions should be made by people in the UK Parliament whom we have not elected.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-05-14 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  14. I have been very clear that there is a need for the updated guidance to be published before the end of term so that, when schools return in August, they can use it at their in-service training days to help to inform better practice in our schools.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-05-08 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  15. I understand that violence in schools will not stop immediately, but for teachers and staff the situation is getting worse, not better. It is frustrating that the timetable for the plan has already slipped and that the guidance on consequences will not be published for months yet. Can the cabinet secretary assure teachers and staff that there will be no further slippage? Jenny Gilruth: I am not necessarily sure that there has been slippage. The work on consequences was a direct ask from SAGRABIS, which includes COSLA, our teaching trade unions and our other partners. We have to agree the guidance collectively, but it will be published in the coming weeks, before the end of term. I hope that that gives the member some comfort.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-05-08 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  16. Purpose- built student accommodation, alongside affordable accommodation, is important. I do not believe that purpose-built student accommodation should be in the Housing (Scotland) Bill. Does the cabinet secretary agree? Shirley-Anne Somerville: As Willie Rennie will know, the Government has introduced a bill that does not include purpose-built student accommodation. I do not wish to see purpose-built student accommodation included in rent controls, and the Government will not support any amendment that seeks to include it. The Deputy Presiding Officer: That concludes portfolio questions on social justice. To allow members on the front benches to change over, there will be a brief pause before we move on to our next item of business. Relationships and Behaviour in Schools

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-05-08 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  17. In addition, I am open to exploring whether we could add into the mix a further premium that recognises the delivery of courses that are linked to local and national economic need, which might provide a balancing mechanism in some instances. Cruise Ship Levy 7.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-05-08 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  18. There is absolutely no way that Fife College asked for a real-terms cut in its budget. The Government, along with the Scottish Funding Council, needs to think again, because the potential in Fife is huge. We have oil and gas jobs that are fading out while there is huge potential in offshore renewables as well as all the other sectors. Surely the minister understands that we cannot throw away that opportunity. Graeme Dey: The changes in allocations reflect the number of high-tariff courses that each institution offers. That is what the institutions, as a collective, sought to have recognised. Fife College is undertaking excellent work with the SFC on curriculum transformation, which has potential for the college.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-05-08 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  19. To ask the Scottish Government what its response is to the reported intimation from the British Medical Association that it is considering a formal dispute with it over GP underfunding. (S6O-04621)

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-05-07 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  20. Together with some local creel fishermen, I have been increasingly concerned about the number of creels that are being used off the Fife coast. One company has claimed to own 18,000 creels, and that is causing great concern about the size of the catch and the healthiness of the stock. When the minister is considering the quota management groups and inshore fisheries measures, will he consider limiting the number of creels that are used? Jim Fairlie: I am not aware of the specific case that Willie Rennie brings to the chamber, but I am more than happy to respond to him in writing. If he wants to write to us, we will take that up for him. Farm Incomes 6.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-05-07 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  21. Before we move to the next item of business, there will be a brief pause to allow the front-bench teams to reorganise. Programme for Government

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-05-06 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  22. It is striking that this is the final signature Government statement before next year’s election and yet the public gallery is almost empty. Although the share of health spending given to GPs is down, waits are up. Why did it take a threat of a formal dispute by doctors for the Government to finally act? The First Minister: I assure Mr Rennie that it did not. If he casts his mind back, he will recall that the Government has been engaged in dialogue with the GP community on those questions for some time. Indeed, in my speech at the National Robotarium in January, I reflected on the issues that we were addressing to make sure that we could improve access to GP services—the Government has delivered that as part of the programme for government today. The Presiding Officer: That concludes questions on the First Minister’s statement.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-05-06 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  23. We know that nuclear power stations are not popular, and that wind turbines are not popular with certain sections of the population. There is no energy source that is universally popular. Hydrogen will fit into that pattern, too, so we need to be ahead of the game on that and provide people with assurance and confidence. If we are going to get to that 25GW target, there will have to be hydrogen facilities in many parts of Scotland. Therefore, let us get ahead of that and build confidence that those facilities are safe in our neighbourhoods. If we do not do that, we have no chance of getting to that 25GW target. The Deputy Presiding Officer: We move to the open debate. 15:45

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-05-01 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  24. St Andrews University, in my constituency, is involved in a green hydrogen accelerator project, together with the University of Strathclyde. The project is very positive. It has £13 million of investment, and is led by Professor John Irvine, who has a long track record in that area. The purpose of the project is to set up a world-leading research facility to drive up efficiency, because we should not just think that where we are now is where we need to be. We need to be incredibly efficient, and the project is looking at energy storage and chemicals, which are the prime areas for the use of hydrogen. I am coming to the end of my time, so I will close by talking about public acceptance. I have heard a lot of complaints from people who are concerned about battery storage facilities in their neighbourhoods and about solar farms.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-05-01 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  25. Green Cat Renewables was diplomatic in its briefing, but I think that it has sounded a note of caution on the extent of the target. Green Cat Renewables also rightly points out that demand generation is incredibly important. We need to ensure that demand is domestic rather than involving exporting, because we need to have a reliable demand. We know that that will be difficult, because change is hard. For people who have done things a certain way for a long time, change is difficult. There will need to be a lot of investment, skills development and training. Inertia comes into play—people often ask why, if something is already working, we should bother to change it. Therefore, we need to ensure that we have the demand generated locally with the practical measures to make that work.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-05-01 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  26. The global potential for hydrogen production was 1.4GW in 2023. For Scotland alone, the aim is to have 25GW of hydrogen production capacity by 2045. Green Cat Renewables, which has provided us with a valuable briefing, says that its four projects produce 800MW. That is minuscule compared with that target of 25GW. In Scotland, if all the projects that are being talked about go through—not all of them will—that will come to 28GW, and hydrogen will account for 25GW of that. I am all for big, ambitious targets, but we need to have a plan that works. The figures that I have mentioned require skills development, planning and investment. Reaching that target is not cheap, and it will require a lot of people to make it happen. My question to the cabinet secretary is about how realistic the target is.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-05-01 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  27. I discovered that hydrogen can be stored in salt caverns, which sound like wonderful places, perhaps not just for eastern Russia but for Scotland as well. The use of hydrogen should be given urgent priority in the production of green steel and the move away from the use of grey hydrogen for the generation of fertilisers and the production of chemicals. We will continue to need chemicals and fertilisers in certain cases, and I want them to be as green as we can make them. Green hydrogen would play an important role in decarbonising steel and chemical production. The opportunities for hydrogen are really quite positive, which is probably why Graeme Simpson was so positive this afternoon. However, I want to sound a note of caution, because I wonder whether the targets that we are setting are a little bit wild.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-05-01 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  28. There are incredibly expensive constraint payments that we use regularly in order to cope with issues of supply and demand of electricity. If we can have hydrogen play an important role in minimising those constraint payments, that would be a good thing. It would be supremely logical— this follows on from Sarah Boyack’s contribution— if we did that. We know that batteries—there is much talk about batteries, and many more planning applications for them than I expected—store energy for only a short period and are, perhaps, not able to cope with wide fluctuations in supply and demand over a longer period of time. Pumped storage plays an important role in our storage capacity, and new facilities are being developed. However, hydrogen could play an important role in the storage of energy over longer periods of time.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-05-01 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  29. It was a joy to hear from Graham Simpson and to see his cheery disposition as a newborn man next to Maurice Golden, who has new lunch mates on an occasional basis. I am sure that Graham Simpson would benefit from that as well—maybe that is why he is so cheery this afternoon. We need cheeriness on a Thursday afternoon when we are debating hydrogen, because it is important that we focus on its many upsides. However, it is not just about the upsides and debating the principles—many have strong views in this debate—but about the fact that we need to make it happen. Too often in the Parliament, we pontificate about principles. Plans for delivery tend to be rather dull, but they are incredibly important if we are going to achieve our objectives.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-05-01 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  30. We are having that engagement and we are constructively working with partners to resolve the issue. However, as I said, we have also provided record funding to health boards and local government, which in turn fund IJBs. City of Edinburgh Council (Budget) 7.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-04-30 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  31. The Government loves round tables and response groups as a response to any particular crisis—and this is a crisis, as people in Fife are desperate for social care but services were slashed and people suffered because of Fife’s £37 million overspend last year. When will the Government get a grip of the problem, which is happening year after year? Ivan McKee: As I indicated, we are providing record funding to health boards and local authorities, which in turn have a responsibility to fund IJBs. As I said, we are also engaging with the sector. Mr Rennie can call it what he likes, but I call it engagement, and at the end of the day, that engagement is hugely important. If we were not engaging, I am sure that he would be one of the first to complain that we were not having those round tables and other discussions to move the challenge forward.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-04-30 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  32. Many parts of Scotland need more houses to ensure that they can attract skilled workers and that those workers will have somewhere to live. A lot of developments are now under way and there is more positivity in the sector, notwithstanding some of the wider pressures that are facing the economy, which were referred to in previous answers. Green Industrial Strategy (Extended Producer Responsibility) 7.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-04-30 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  33. The minister is keen to deflect responsibility for the flatlining of the economy on to others rather than accept his own responsibility. For example, housing policy—including in relation to home energy grants—has resulted in a massive decline in investment. What discussions has the minister had with his colleagues in other departments to make sure that they change their ways to encourage investment? Richard Lochhead: As the member may be aware, in recent weeks, there has been a lot more positive feedback from the Scottish housing sector in response to the changes that have been made by the Scottish Government. We take the issue very seriously. Having a good housing supply in the country is vitally important for the future of our economy, which includes the business community.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-04-30 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  34. It is difficult to say that that approach is not working when the work is not yet complete. I am positive about the outcomes. The Presiding Officer: I apologise to members who were not able to ask questions, but I have to draw topical question time to a close so that we can move on to the next item of business. Supporting Scottish Industry

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-04-29 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  35. None of those actions are working, are they? The rates for under-threes are so high and are increasing because the Government is underfunding private, voluntary and independent nurseries for the provision of the 1,140 hours. Why cannot the minister understand that it is her policy that is costing parents so much? Natalie Don-Innes: I regularly meet childcare providers and families to discuss those exact issues, so I am not blind to the issues that our providers face, and that is why I am taking further actions. I have listed some of those actions and I have spoken to Mr Rennie about the cost collection exercise, which will be key in understanding the rates that need to be paid to providers. I have been clear that I want as much involvement from our providers as possible, and I have received positive feedback about that.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-04-29 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  36. That is alongside work—which I alluded to a moment ago as being in its early stages but under way—between the Government and the university sector around what a more sustainable long-term future model might look like. Further meetings on that will follow in the next few weeks. I accept that that might take time to develop, but we are absolutely alive to the challenges that are being faced by the university sector. I have to reiterate that many of the challenges that are being faced by our universities are not within the control of the Scottish Government, be they ENICs or the migration policies that have so decimated international student numbers.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-04-24 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  37. I find it astonishing that the minister responsible for higher education does not know that a key report about the financial sustainability of not just the University of Edinburgh but all universities in Scotland has been delayed, and nor does he know when it will be published. That is astonishing. A crisis is going on in our universities. He should know, and if he does not, he should come back next week and tell us exactly what the financial sustainability situation is across the sector. Otherwise, he is letting the sector down. Graeme Dey: The SFC has been doing substantial work, not just in relation to that report but on a more urgent piece on the financial sustainability of the sector in the light of events at the University of Dundee. It has been very actively engaged in mapping out the situation across universities.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-04-24 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  38. There are also other areas in which we have taken action to support private providers, such as through rates relief. As I have said to Mr Rennie before, I am more than happy to pick up discussions with him on other actions that we are taking to help providers. Vaping in Schools 3.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-04-24 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  39. The last two private nurseries in the east neuk of Fife have closed, removing the flexible childcare that parents desperately need in order to stay in work. That is partly because of Government policy: the Government has been fiddling around for years, saying that it is going to take action to resolve the gap in funding, but it has done very little. When, at last, are we going to see a solution to this problem? Natalie Don-Innes: I assume that Mr Rennie is referring to the gap in funding in relation to the issues between the local authority and private nurseries. I have been clear to Mr Rennie before, and to the rest of the chamber, that there is on- going work on the rates review and the updated rates guidance, including work with the Diffley Partnership, to try to bring more parity to the rate- setting process.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-04-24 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  40. We are working with bodies such as the Royal College of General Practitioners and supporting publication of the national autism implementation team’s guidance, to ensure that we are doing exactly what Willie Rennie asks of us. Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services Waiting Times 3.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-04-24 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  41. The system is wholly inadequate, and it is very short sighted. The current demand for private diagnosis is huge, because the NHS system is so inadequate. If patients have to go back to the start of the system, that will simply put further pressure on the NHS; we must either improve ADHD services or allow shared care arrangements. We cannot cut off provision in the way that has been done so far, because many patients are losing out as a result. Neil Gray: Like Willie Rennie, and as I said in answer to Stuart McMillan, I recognise that with increased awareness of such conditions has come massively increased demand for services. I want the NHS to be able to respond to that.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-04-24 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  42. I wish that there was as much energy about debating that as there is about debating other social security aspects. It is right to debate those aspects but, unless we deal with the economic inactivity in the country, we will double our problems alongside our demographic challenges. I am pleased that the health secretary is here to listen to the debate, because it is really important that we fully understand the financial challenge that the country faces. Unless we deal with it now, we will have many problems in years to come.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-04-23 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  43. Recently, I heard about a young man who was receiving support for his attention deficit hyperactivity disorder when he was at school. When he became an adult, support was withdrawn. He went off the rails and was out of the workplace, though he was a talented young man who could contribute significantly. He is trying to get back on the list to get medicine and support, but he has a three-year wait before he can even see somebody. He could be contributing to the workplace, but he is not able to, because the NHS is not set up for that. I challenge the decision makers in the NHS to make the right decisions about the real challenges that we have around economic inactivity. We need to shape the support to get all those people who are capable of working, if we can give them the right support, back to work.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-04-23 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  44. It is younger people who have mental health issues, autism, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder and a variety of other conditions. If those young people are not in the workplace for the rest of their lives, the financial challenge will be enormous, and we are not set up to tackle those issues. I will give a particular example about the national health service. Health inequalities are not all about health, but the NHS has a big role to play in getting people back into the workplace. However, autism services are just nowhere, and no proper support is in place across the country. In fact, when it comes to people—particularly young people—getting autism support, we are going in the wrong direction. In mental health services, waits have come down, but that has been replaced by long waits for autism services.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-04-23 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  45. Frankly, we have not done an awful lot about it, but it has been there and it continues to face us, and its financial consequences will be severe. However, we now also have the economic inactivity challenge that is coming. We have 16 to 64-year-olds, plus older people who are retired, who are not in the workplace and contributing to the country’s financial wellbeing. Meanwhile, our demands are ever greater, which poses a significant financial challenge to the country. In the 1980s and 1990s, it was middle-aged white men, primarily from working-class communities, who found themselves on various forms of incapacity benefit. Those people were lost to the workforce but also to the financial wellbeing of the country. As a result of being on benefits, they were not paying their taxes. Now the challenge has changed.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-04-23 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  46. The fear that many people feel when they think about going for an employment opportunity is about what will happen if they try to get back on to benefits. I understand that people who are entitled to disability benefits get those on the basis of their disability rather than their work situation, but there will be many other benefits that they are entitled to that they fear losing. The right to try work is a good initiative, and I hope that that message gets through. The extra employment package of £1 billion is a good thing, and the disabled facilities grant is also good. At the centre of the debate is the country’s financial sustainability. We face a number of challenges. The demographic challenge has been known about for decades.

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  47. However, it is pretty clear what the UK Government wants to do, which is causing significant anxiety for a number of people who literally feel helpless in the debate. The many organisations that have contributed briefings for today’s debate have set out clearly what the consequences will be. We are told that 70 per cent of households with a disabled person in them are on some of the lowest incomes. Citizens Advice Scotland has said that people already struggle to make ends meet when they are on support. The Resolution Foundation has talked about the PIP entitlement and the direct cost to individuals as a result of the changes. All of that is pretty stark, but there are positives in the green paper. The right to try work is a good thing.

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  48. I wish that we had a much longer-term approach to welfare, social security and work instead of making short-term decisions that do not lead to the long-term benefits that we seek. The “Pathways to Work” green paper simply transfers the financial stress that the country is feeling on to individuals and the households in which they live. The increases in poverty, which I think the UK Government has acknowledged will happen, will become real, but the approach also displaces the costs on to the national health service, social care, food banks and charities in a number of areas. Therefore, we are not saving money; we are just transferring the problem somewhere else. It is a green paper, and Paul O’Kane is right that there is a consultation and that people should engage with it.

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  49. The debate is about a number of competing challenges. It is about dignity for disabled people—particularly those in poverty. It is about balancing the books and being able to pay for that. It is about the value of work and the contribution that work makes to the individual’s wellbeing, but also to society’s wellbeing. It is also about the country’s long-term financial sustainability. Those are all very difficult competing challenges. My starting point for this debate on the green paper is that the paper’s title, “Pathways to Work”, is a good one, because work is a good thing. However, I am afraid that the paper quickly loses direction, because work is not its primary focus; its primary focus is financial.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-04-23 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  50. To ask the Scottish Government what discussions it has had with EU member states regarding Scotland’s alignment with EU policies, in light of the election of President Trump. (S6O-04549)

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-04-23 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT