Jesse Norman
MP for Hereford and South Herefordshire · Conservative · United Kingdom
“In view of the new Prime Minister’s spending priorities, it now seems highly unlikely that the ruinously expensive current plans will be put to the House before the end of this year. Seven months have already passed with no action.”
“10 North have real spending powers of its own? If the answer is yes, then this will be a new kind of cross-departmental Ministry—perhaps a territorial Ministry, like a regional Government but with no defined scope or mandate. We will need to see the legal instruments delegating Treasury authority and functions to it.”
“I rather fear that, given our longevity and at least the level of banter on the Government side of the Dispatch Box, we will be seen over time as the Morecambe and Wise, or perhaps the two Ronnies, of British politics.”
“The past few weeks have brought news of the deaths of Dolly Parton, Tim Curry and Wendell Berry. I am sure that many colleagues will share my sense of shock and sadness at the loss of those extraordinary figures, but also give great thanks for their lives. Truly, we live in a world of change.”
“10 North will not have spending power of its own, then ultimately the Treasury and the Chancellor will continue to sign off on its public spending and on any taxing matters. Decentralisation is really important, but No. 10 North will not be a means of decentralisation in this scenario; it will be just another layer of Government.”
“But we are not going to cast nasturtiums, in the words of a friend of mine, on any of this nonsense—not even on Baroness Lloyd and the hopeless Building Digital UK, who have entirely failed to address the issue of fibre broadband in neglected parts of my constituency and simply repeated the same language of incompetence and failure to me…”
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“I think the right hon. Gentleman is slightly unclear on this. HMRC takes careful steps to ensure that the people whom it deals with as agencies employ on a proper and appropriate basis. When, in very rare cases among hundreds and hundreds of contractors in a fast-moving market, it may become clear that someone has in fact been hired under such a scheme, it takes immediate steps to end that relationship and then to follow up, of course, and to pursue as may be required under law. If he is concerned about the interests of taxpayers, let me remind him that many of the people who benefit from disguised remuneration have not been paying tax, from which our public services benefit, and it is those taxpayers whose interests we are also seeking to protect.”
“Revenue and Customs has been clear on its commitment to support all taxpayers who might need help paying their loan charge liabilities. Where someone cannot afford to pay in full on time, it will seek to agree payment by instalments. Revenue and Customs has a dedicated helpline for those seeking to leave avoidance schemes, and the disguised remuneration and debt management teams are trained to identify taxpayers who may need extra help and support, and to refer them, if necessary, to outside organisations for support.”
“As my hon. Friend will be aware, a long and detailed review process has been conducted by Sir Amyas Morse. It is, of course, the individual’s responsibility to ensure the accuracy of their tax returns and to understand the consequences of their decisions, although of course the Government very much sympathise with people who have been caught in that position. My hon. Friend may have noticed that we have been taking very vigorous action against promoters of tax avoidance schemes—most recently, in an announcement we made last week that HMRC and the Advertising Standards Authority are getting together to crack down on misleading promoting of tax avoidance schemes.”
“The Government’s approach throughout the pandemic has been to try to support all families, but especially those on low incomes. We have announced a £30 billion plan for jobs to help people back into work, alongside wider measures including the furlough schemes, plus catch-up funding for schools and a substantial increase to the welfare safety net for this year, but it is important to say too that the Government are also supporting the lowest paid by increasing the national living wage to £8.91 and providing a minimum £250 pay increase for public sector workers earning less than £24,000 a year.”
“I certainly agree with my hon. Friend that it is important to focus on skills, and of course that is what the plan for jobs does. Our goal is to try to make sure that everyone, at whatever stage of life, has the opportunity and encouragement to improve their position in employment, and of course we also want employers to support them in doing that. It is well known that supportive and encouraging employers ultimately have more productive workforces because of the extra engagement they get. That is why the Department for Work and Pensions launched the in-work progression commission in order to try to understand better what those barriers to advancement might be and how they can be overcome both by the support of Government and by changes to the way in which employers develop and encourage staff.”
“We certainly, of course, share the view that it is important—very important—to protect the low-paid. The purpose of supporting them through the national living wage was precisely in order to raise their incomes, and that increase is worth some £345 a year for a full-time worker. However, it is also important to say that the Government remain fully committed to their longer-term target for the national living wage, which will make an enormous contribution itself towards ending low pay in the UK, and that is before, as I have mentioned, the support we are giving to 2.1 million public sector workers earning less than £24,000 a year.”
“About 11,000 employers and individuals settled their use of disguised remuneration schemes between Budget 2016 and 31 March 2020. As I indicated earlier, HMRC is currently preparing a report to Parliament on the implementation of the recommendations of the independent loan charge review, and that is due imminently. The report will include figures up to the 30 September 2020 deadline for taxpayers who settled their use of disguised remuneration tax avoidance schemes.”
“As my hon. Friend will know, the settlement date has already been extended by eight months. That was a very important recognition of the impact of covid and has given individuals the chance to settle their schemes. He should also be aware that we do not merely seek to support those who are settling; we are also taking robust action against promoters and other enablers of tax avoidance schemes.”
“My hon. Friend is absolutely right to focus on the specific impact that he and we all, as constituency MPs, have in our constituencies. I think he knows—we have discussed this at some length—that we are always happy to look for more schemes and more suggestions, and perhaps he would like to write to me with some details of what he has in mind. He will also be aware that, as I said, I am meeting the Federation of Small Businesses, the Association of Chartered Certified Accountants and, in due course, I hope, the all-party parliamentary group to discuss these issues in more detail.”
“If I may pick up on a couple of other points about the “how?”, colleagues will know that we recently established the northern transport acceleration council, which is designed to get those projects up and running more quickly. We are pressing harder on the devolution agenda—colleagues have rightly flagged that—and have just agreed a devolution deal with West Yorkshire for £1 billion of investment and a directly elected Metro Mayor from May next year. We fully implemented the Sheffield City Region deal, including £900 million of new funding, along with substantial devolved powers over transport, skills and planning. We intend to go further still through the forthcoming devolution and local recovery White Paper. I am lucky that, thanks to your genius, Mr Gray—”
“I will give a little example that is close to my heart: the ministerial training programme that I set up for colleagues, who will be pleased to know that it is now in its second phase. We have taken the view that Ministers can benefit, as can senior civil servants and anyone who aspires to be in the senior civil service, from becoming better clients of major projects and better able to ask searching questions about timing, schedule and budget of delivery. That important programme is something that we have put in place. As colleagues will know, we plan to set up a new economic campus in the north of England, with a substantial number of civil servants and people from across the economic parts of Government, to give not just a local presence, but a change of mindset that responds to colleagues’ concerns.”
“We will also seek to reverse some of the Beeching cuts of the 1960s, so that we can get more community connections in place. I spoke earlier about the importance when we invest not just of the what, but of the how, and colleagues were absolutely right to raise that question. I single out the comments made by my hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent North (Jonathan Gullis), who was right to focus on that. Through the national infrastructure strategy, which we are publishing this afternoon, and through the work that goes on around it, with the National Infrastructure Commission that we set up and the Infrastructure and Projects Authority, we are thinking harder about how to choose, integrate and deliver schemes as best we can and better than any other Government for a long time.”
“In RIS2, we were able to negotiate a substantial investment in roadbuilding on a strategic basis across the country, including a lot of schemes in the north. That is not just about new roads, but about making our existing road network more effective and ready for electric vehicles and, in due course, autonomous vehicles. That is an important part of the development of our overall infrastructure. Those schemes include dualling the A66 across the Pennines and of the A1 from Morpeth to Ellingham in the north-east, and upgrading the A63 and Castle Street in Hull and the Simister island junction in Greater Manchester. The same is true for investment in the north’s railways. As colleagues will be aware, we are going to publish an integrated rail plan that looks at the scope, form and phasing of rail investment in the north and the midlands.”
“The transforming cities fund has provided city regions across the north, including Greater Manchester, Liverpool and Tees Valley, with over £800 million to make their transport networks even better and greener. At the last Budget, we also announced a £4.2 billion investment across eight city regions, including Greater Manchester, Sheffield and the Tees Valley, for five-year consolidated transport settlements, starting in 2022. In addition, we are spending billions of pounds on upgrading the north’s major strategic road network. As colleagues will be aware, I negotiated the road investment strategy 2 with the Treasury when I was on the other side of the fence at the Department of Transport, with my hon. Friend—my beloved friend—the hon. Member for Blackpool North and Cleveleys (Paul Maynard).”
“It has been rightly said by colleagues that we should not be purely focused on cities. This is a very important aspect of that, and I commend it to them. I am delighted that the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Southport is among the places that are benefiting. We have also accelerated the issuance of some £96 million from the fund, to pay for the roll-out of even more projects that will fuel economic recovery after the coronavirus. Of course, it is hard to think about infrastructure without thinking about transport. That will continue to be crucial to unlocking the productivity of this country, in particular in the north. That is why we are investing very substantially—indeed, record sums—into improving it.”
“Already Mayors and local enterprise partnerships across the north have received some £319 million from the fund, to deliver jobs, skills and infrastructure. That money is pushing forward a range of projects, from the roll-out of electric vehicle charging points in South Yorkshire to a new garden village in Liverpool. Colleagues will be aware of the towns fund, which is already under way and which, if I may say so, is a great example of collaborative cross-party local engagement, designed to liberate energies, bring forward projects that were not necessarily on local councils’ radar screens and bring them into a coherent, long-term relationship with each other and as part of a single plan for particular towns. That fund is paying for infrastructure schemes that will unleash the economic potential of smaller communities across the country.”
“If it does not perfectly address all the questions that my hon. Friend the Member for Southport raised in his speech, then that is only because if he had given us a couple more days we would have been able to reshape the thing even more precisely. Let me also talk a little bit about what has been achieved so far. The hon. Member for Erith and Thamesmead (Abena Oppong-Asare), whom I again welcome to her place on the Opposition Front Bench, talked about what has been achieved so far. It is important to flag up what has been achieved, and then we can talk about where we want to go. The first thing I would say is that there is an enormous amount of investment already going into the ground, particularly in the north of England. In his summer economic update, the Chancellor unveiled the great get Britain building fund.”
“This country—through the quality of its regulation, its rule of law, its openness, its ability to set up a business, its accessibility, its language and its culture—remains extremely attractive to international investment, as a place to put hard-earned cash, and rightly so. In June, the Government explained how they plan to accelerate the delivery of infrastructure schemes. In July, they said they would be bringing forward £8.6 billion of capital spending, focusing on shovel-ready projects, and this afternoon we have not just the spending review statement, but the publication of the national infrastructure strategy and some ancillary documents around that. That will set out the plans for the ambitious acceleration of investment in our country’s infrastructure and, of course, its relation to the levelling-up agenda.”
“The advent of this pandemic virus has only strengthened and increased the appetite to push forward, and the urgency of that mission. To that, the quality of our infrastructure and the speed of its delivery are absolutely essential. If I may, I will just rewind a little bit. Colleagues will recall that in the March Budget we announced historic increases in capital spending, setting out plans for more than half a trillion pounds of investment over the next few years. It is important to remember that that investment is not just public investment; it is also private investment. It is very easy to forget the central importance of private investment.”
“Friends and colleagues across the House will know, I am responding because I am the Minister responsible for the national infrastructure strategy, the National Infrastructure Commission and the Infrastructure Projects Authority. If I may, I will come to many of the comments that were raised and talk a little bit about not just the what, but the how of infrastructure, because that has been well flagged in today’s debate. I do not think that it needs to be stated too often, and it should not be forgotten, that the desire to invest for the long term and to level up this country is the driving force of this Administration. It is an absolutely central part of what the Prime Minister, the Cabinet and colleagues across the Government stand for.”
“I must say that, as an example of influence in the Chamber, I do not think that is to be bettered; I am very impressed indeed that someone of such tender years in the Chamber and in this Parliament should be able to bring about such a state of affairs, so I congratulate him on that very much indeed. I also congratulate colleagues across the House on the astonishing fiscal rectitude that they have shown, by and large. At this point, we are normally into the tens of billions in requests from my thrifty Conservative colleagues, as well as from those in other parties, so I am very grateful that they have managed to restrain their appetite—possibly because they are looking forward so intently to the festivities this afternoon. As my hon.”
“What a delight it is to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Gray. I congratulate you, if I may, on the extremely elegant and deft way in which you have managed the Back-Bench contributions to this debate, with a lightness of touch that has brought great joy to everyone. It has been a good-natured debate, and I thank everyone for the comments, questions and arguments that they have put. I would particularly like to single out, on behalf of colleagues, my hon. Friend the Member for Southport (Damien Moore) for hosting and calling this debate and for the fact that, in doing so, he has brilliantly selected a day on which the Chancellor himself will be stepping forward with some answers to the specific questions that he is putting.”
“Friend’s call for a new Rhine system of navigation in the north was optimistic, but I respect the intent and energy behind it. My hon. Friend the Member for Leigh (James Grundy) was right to pick up on light rail. When I was in the Department for Transport, we did a consultation on light rail, which has such great potential. It is extremely inexpensive compared with some of the heavier rail alternatives, and it could be a beautiful new industry for the UK to develop. We have a tremendous amount of relevant skills in the supply chain, and I very much look forward to hearing more about that from colleagues.”
“Member for Weaver Vale (Mike Amesbury) is no longer in his place but I thought that he was right to focus on devolution, which I touched on in earlier remarks. The point about the capillaries and arteries of infrastructure was well made by my right hon. Friend the Member for Tatton (Esther McVey). My right hon. Friend the Member for Elmet and Rothwell (Alec Shelbrooke) was absolutely right to focus on the short, medium and long term. As he will know, one of the great unsung heroes of transport policy over the last few years has been Sir Rod Eddington. His report was very much about managing smaller schemes—often enormously important and not to be forgotten—that move people, particularly in suburbs and areas of large volumes of traffic, by rail, road or other means, and it was absolutely right. My right hon.”
“—I have a bit of time left to spend talking about the specific comments that have been made, which have been extremely helpful and interesting. My hon. Friend the Member for Southport was absolutely right to encourage us to look at rural areas as well as cities. He painted an almost garden of Eden-like picture of life in Southport, where people stroll airily from flower shows to comedy festivals to air shows, while striking a mean four iron on Royal Birkdale. I thought that an exquisite moment in his speech. He rightly highlighted the importance of railway, the stronger towns fund and the freeports, which he will know we have announced, and from which the north could benefit hugely in this competition. The hon.”
“Skills are so important, but so easy to forget, and only to focus on transport, and he was absolutely right about that. I commend to him the work of the new university we are setting up in Hereford, which does exactly that. The importance of cultural infrastructure was mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for North West Durham (Mr Holden). I hope I have said enough to recognise the contributions otherwise made, so rather than overrun, I will allow my dear friend the Member for Southport to close the debate.”
“That means we get a better client relationship between the two sides, or a better interaction between the Ministries, the Departments, and the centre. My hon. Friend the Member for Sedgefield (Paul Howell) raised the idea of a funding pot for MPs, which I have to say raises all kinds of worries in me. We have been there before in our history some 100 years ago, so I am a little bit nervous about that, but the idea that there should be significant political leadership in making choices, and accountability for that, is absolutely right. I think the stronger accounts fund is rather a good way of tying those elements together, so I do not disagree with him about that. My hon. Friend the Member for Bury South (Christian Wakeford) talked about infrastructure of the mind, as I would call it.”
“My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. The unheard voices are as important as the voices in the room. Of course, as he knows, my door remains absolutely open for them at any point, in this debate or otherwise. My dear friend the hon. Member for Blackpool North and Cleveleys rightly raised the point about BCRs, which is an important technical point and they should not be abused. There is a certain art and craft to effective valuation assessment. The centre for it across Government is in the Department for Transport rather than in the Treasury. We have a great deal of respect for the work that they do there, although there is a very high level of understanding of industry in the Treasury, in a way that has not always been true.”
“Traders in Northern Ireland will continue to register for EORI numbers under UCC rules. Amending the list of territories is a necessary step in updating our legislation to be fit for purpose after the end of the transition period. The temporary waiver on the requirement for entry summary declarations for movements from the EU strikes an appropriate balance between maintaining safety and security standards while giving businesses time and flexibility to adjust. The technical amendments to the EORI regime will allow businesses to register as they do currently. I commend these regulations to the Committee.”
“This instrument updates references in retained law that are no longer relevant. In doing so, it ensures that we continue to have a functioning EORI system. It also maintains a registration requirement where such a requirement exists in national law. No new requirements are imposed by this instrument. The Northern Ireland protocol means that there are no safety and security requirements for goods moving between Northern Ireland and the EU. The protocol applies EU Union customs code rules in Northern Ireland. Therefore, the safety and security aspects of the instrument do not apply in relation to goods movements in and out of Northern Ireland. Goods moving between Northern Ireland and the rest of the world will be subject to safety and security requirements.”
“EORI numbers are unique identifiers that businesses are required to have to interact with Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs, as the UK’s customs authority. EORI numbers are required to make customs declarations, apply for customs simplifications or undertake other customs engagement with HMRC. Existing UK EORIs will remain valid after 31 December 2020 for use in Great Britain and will continue to be prefaced with the letters, “GB”. A UK EORI will be required for individuals or businesses established in Great Britain who want to trade with the EU or the rest of the world from 1 January 2021. Individuals and businesses without a UK EORI will need to obtain one. Persons established outside Great Britain who wish to undertake customs processes in Great Britain will also require a UK EORI.”
“However, the list does not currently allow shorter timing requirements for our closest neighbours and trading partners. Default timing requirements are impractical for the well-established trade routes, including channel crossings and movements to and from the Atlantic coast of Spain and Portugal. This instrument corrects the territory list in the retained legislation, adding territory to cover some of our most significant trade routes and removing those distant territories at the border of the EU that no longer need this consideration. This amendment corrects a deficiency in the retained legislation to reflect the UK’s new status as an independent customs regime. The instrument also updates the retained law governing EORI registration.”
“The instrument also updates retained legislation amending a list of locations currently granted shorter timing requirements for the submission of safety and security declarations for maritime movements. The time limit pre-arrival or pre-departure by which safety and security declarations are required varies by mode of transport. The retained legislation was drafted for the geography of the European Union. It contains a list of territories allowed shorter time limits for the submission of safety and security declarations for movements by sea. This accounts for the practicalities of those shorter journeys, where the default time limits can be challenging for carriers to meet. Places such as Morocco, from which the journey to Great Britain by sea is lengthy, are currently on the list.”
“There will be no requirement for entry summary declarations for goods imported into Great Britain from territories where the UK does not currently require such declarations during the waiver period. From 1 July 2021, these declarations will be required on all goods moved into Great Britain. This waiver only applies to goods movements for which there is not currently a declaration requirement. As is the case at present, Border Force will undertake intelligence-led risk assessments of these movements. The requirements for entry summary declarations for goods imported from the rest of the world will not change. As a result, there is no significant short-term increase in the security risk to the UK from this waiver.”
“This statutory instrument introduces a temporary waiver on the requirement for safety and security declarations for goods imported into Great Britain. An additional statutory instrument, laid on Monday 16 November, will introduce contingency powers for export safety and security requirements, allowing the Government to take appropriate action if necessary in relation to exports. As we announced in June, the Government are adopting a staged approach to the introduction of controls at the border after the end of the transition period. This will see the introduction of a six-month waiver on the requirement to submit entry summary declarations for goods imported from the EU. This waiver will give time and flexibility to businesses affected by covid-19 so that they can meet the new requirements.”
“SAFE sets out minimum standards for customs administrations to control for security risks in the international supply chain. This includes collection and risk assessment of data on consignments of goods. The collection of this data is required before arrival or departure for all goods movements. These declarations are currently implemented through the Union customs code and will be retained in UK law after the end of the transition period by the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018. While we have been part of the EU’s safety and security zone, we have only required these declarations for goods moving into or out of the EU. When the transition period ends on 31 December 2020, goods moved between Great Britain and the EU, as well as the rest of the world, will require these declarations.”
“The instrument concerns safety and security declarations, and registration for an economic operators registration and identification or EORI number. The statutory instrument is essentially technical in nature. As well as correcting a deficiency in retained law, it provides support to help businesses prepare for the end of the transition period. My hon. Friends and colleagues will be aware that the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee reported the regulations as an instrument of interest in its 32nd report, published on 29 October 2020. The safety and security provisions of this instrument are best understood in the context of the UK’s existing safety and security regime. The UK is guided by the World Customs Organisation’s SAFE framework of standards to manage the risks associated with goods entering and leaving the country.”
“I beg to move, That the Committee has considered the draft Customs Safety, Security and Economic Operators Registration and Identification (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2020. It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Stringer. I notice that some of my colleagues, due to the covid safety requirements, have adopted ticked seats on the other side of the room. It is a little bit unnerving for me to look over, and I hope it is not a sign of widespread defections, but I thank all colleagues for joining us for this important event. This statutory instrument was debated in the other place last Thursday, 19 November, and passed unanimously. It is part of the Government’s package to prepare for the end of the transition period.”
“I should also say—of course, we must not prejudge future spending announcements and discussions —that there is widespread understanding in HMRC and the Treasury that the organisation has reacted extraordinarily effectively and well, not least in dealing with the potential risks to its own staff from covid and in the reorganisation, in terms of working from home, that it has managed to achieve. For all those reasons, I hope that I am able to give the hon. Lady satisfaction on the three topics that she has raised, and I commend the statutory instrument to the Committee. Question put and agreed to.”
“I am sure that she would join me in saying that it is a source of national wonderment how well HMRC has done in dealing with the covid crisis, in standing up in record time furlough, self-employment and other schemes, and in adapting and elaborating them as the pandemic has evolved. However, I think that it does not feel—and we have not been advised—that there is any particular concern in this area. On the contrary, it has been successful in recruiting 6,000 of 7,000 needed and new customs agents. There is every expectation that that process will be completed as needed.”
“Since then, an enormous amount of work has been done to recruit over 250,000 traders to the EORI-number process, to stand up a very substantial programme of investment in intermediaries and training. Those are things that, on due consideration and in consultation and discussion with stakeholders, give us—and HMRC in particular—cause to believe that six months will be adequate. Finally, the hon. Lady raised the question of the timing of journeys and whether or not it might be an unrealistic burden on HMRC, given all the other constraints that the organisation has met.”
“It has been subject to significant cross-examination and reflection by intermediaries and other communities that it would affect. It has been specifically reviewed in the House of Lords. Human error being what it is, in an imperfect world, we cannot say that perfection is given to everything, but we would like to think—and we strongly believe, for the reasons I have indicated—that this is a sound and good piece of legislation. Secondly, the hon. Lady asked whether or not the six-month period would be adequate, especially given that covid has been an additional factor. All I would say is that when this was originally framed, covid was not in the picture but, at the same time, there was considerably greater uncertainty about what the timing of this would be and what its effect would be on the relevant traders concerned.”
“Let me say how much I welcome the hon. Lady to the shadow Front Bench. If the fiendish complexity of the questions that she asked and the charm with which she asked them are any indicators of the future, she is destined for a long and successful career. I thank her very much indeed for those questions. The hon. Lady asked three questions. The first question was how can the Government be comfortable that there are no, as it were, remaining errors left in the legislation. I hope that I can give her some comfort by reminding her of the extremely detailed process that the measure has gone through. There was a formal consultation on this legislation. Predecessor versions have been debated in the House, and it has gone through the mill of review by committees.”
“That comes on top of the £6 billion that we have already provided to local authorities since the start of the crisis. The third element is extra support for local authorities in tier 3—”
“We are helping businesses with fixed costs such as rents and bills through a new business grant scheme. We are supporting local authorities in tier 2 or 3 with significant new funding. We have introduced a national funding formula of £1 per head in tier 1 areas with a high incidence, going up to £3 and £8. Of course, that is just a covid outbreak combat measure —it is dedicated to a small part of a much wider pattern of programmes of support totalling, as the House will know, more than £200 billion. To give the House a sense of scale, that means that areas in high or very high alert are receiving, or will receive, up to half a billion pounds just focused on public health activities to do with combating the virus, such as local enforcement and contact tracing.”
“The idea that the Welsh Government have done that, as my hon. Friend the Member for Clwyd South put it, without adequate scrutiny, is a sharp contrast to here where the Opposition have been vigorous in holding the Government to account, and rightly so. Having said that, it is important to say, as my right hon. Friend the Chancellor said last week, that these are not virtual costs: every day that a national lockdown was in place would bring very real costs in jobs lost, businesses closed and children’s education harmed. The costs can be measured and weighed in permanent damage to the economy, which in turn undermines our ability to fund our public services. Let me briefly remind the House of what we are doing to support, in a broad, deep and consistent way, areas that face higher restrictions.”
“Covid-19 is a virus that we do not fully understand in epidemiological terms, or indeed in medical terms, but we know enough to say that the epidemiological evidence simply does not justify introducing a national circuit breaker. The costs of such an approach would be absolutely huge. I vigorously support the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Clwyd South (Simon Baynes), who said that there were weaknesses in the Welsh Government’s decision to impose a circuit breaker because it would put tremendous strain on areas where there had been no great upsurge in the virus. That point was also made by the former Secretary of State for Wales, my right hon. Friend the Member for Vale of Glamorgan (Alun Cairns). It falls in fact into the category of being unnecessarily damaging to the economic fabric of our country.”
“I can only express my thanks and recognition to the people of Liverpool, Lancashire, Greater Manchester and South Yorkshire for the fortitude that they have demonstrated, are demonstrating and will demonstrate. The evidence shows that the most successful countries in combating covid-19 are those that have adopted localised measures to protect their populations. That is why we launched the three covid alert levels for England based on the prevalence of the virus in those areas. Although it is vital that we take decisive action to control the virus where it is surging, as we did yesterday in Manchester, we must also recognise that covid-19 is spreading in different ways and at different speeds across the country.”
“In the words of the deputy chief medical officer last night, we are trying to walk “a very fine line” between getting the virus under control in areas where it is surging and incurring minimal damage to the daily lives and livelihoods of people across the country. It was noticeable that the deputy chief medical officer also made it explicit that he did not support a national lockdown, that he backed a local approach and that it would not be appropriate to impose the strictest restrictions across the country. I thought that was an important and telling point from an independent adviser. For the same reasons, it is clear that no Government, in any normal circumstances, would wish to impose the restrictions that we are discussing today.”
“We have had a lively, passionate and—what should I say?—vigorous debate across the House. We have heard a wide range of arguments and a considerable amount of passion. It is clear, however, that when we cut through the air being discharged on either side of the Chamber, there is a commonality of values across the House. In fact, the House is united on the most fundamental issues that we face, which are the need to combat this terrible covid-19 virus; the need to protect public health; the need to make every effort to prevent economic harm to our businesses, jobs and people; and the need to protect the fabric of our society. We all share those ambitions. To do that, we need to achieve a balance, as the Chancellor discussed last week.”