Jesse Norman
MP for Hereford and South Herefordshire · Conservative · United Kingdom
“In view of the new Prime Minister’s spending priorities, it now seems highly unlikely that the ruinously expensive current plans will be put to the House before the end of this year. Seven months have already passed with no action.”
“10 North have real spending powers of its own? If the answer is yes, then this will be a new kind of cross-departmental Ministry—perhaps a territorial Ministry, like a regional Government but with no defined scope or mandate. We will need to see the legal instruments delegating Treasury authority and functions to it.”
“I rather fear that, given our longevity and at least the level of banter on the Government side of the Dispatch Box, we will be seen over time as the Morecambe and Wise, or perhaps the two Ronnies, of British politics.”
“The past few weeks have brought news of the deaths of Dolly Parton, Tim Curry and Wendell Berry. I am sure that many colleagues will share my sense of shock and sadness at the loss of those extraordinary figures, but also give great thanks for their lives. Truly, we live in a world of change.”
“10 North will not have spending power of its own, then ultimately the Treasury and the Chancellor will continue to sign off on its public spending and on any taxing matters. Decentralisation is really important, but No. 10 North will not be a means of decentralisation in this scenario; it will be just another layer of Government.”
“But we are not going to cast nasturtiums, in the words of a friend of mine, on any of this nonsense—not even on Baroness Lloyd and the hopeless Building Digital UK, who have entirely failed to address the issue of fibre broadband in neglected parts of my constituency and simply repeated the same language of incompetence and failure to me…”
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“I do not have time; I apologise. In the 2018 Budget we also provided a top-up of £420 million for local roads, particularly to repair potholes. A share of £3.5 billion of the national roads fund over five years from 2020-21 will fund improvements in the middle tier of the country’s busiest and most economically important local authority A roads, such as the A66, which connects Cumbria to the north-east. I have made no secret of the fact that, in the spending review, I am pressing for a local roads settlement that follows a similar five-year pattern so that local authorities have more visibility and more capacity to make strategic decisions at a level that is, hopefully, at least as good as the present one.”
“The proposed change under the statutory instrument will therefore relieve the Motor Insurers Bureau of obligations under the visiting victims scheme and remove the potential cost burden that would fall on it if the legislation remained as it is. In future, without visiting victims provisions, UK residents injured in road traffic accidents in the EEA will still be able to make a claim, but they may need to do so outside the UK. The rest of the amendments make technical changes to domestic legislation that are limited to what is needed for the legislation to continue to function effectively once the UK has left the EU. They maintain the status quo in respect of compulsory motor insurance requirements.”
“It would also have cost exposure for claims made by UK residents injured in the EU, without being able to seek reimbursement from its foreign counterparts. There will no longer be an obligation under the motor insurance directive on insurance companies based in the EEA to appoint a claims representative in the UK, as is currently required. The MIB could therefore face the additional cost of handling claims that would previously have been dealt with by claims representatives. That additional cost burden would most likely be passed on to its members—UK-based insurance companies—through its membership levies. Those members could in turn be expected to pass the costs on to UK motorists through higher insurance premiums.”
“Those circumstances include, for example, where there is no claims representative or where the claims representative fails to provide a reasoned response to a claim within three months. The MIB currently fulfils the compensation body role for the UK and is reimbursed by its foreign counterparts under the directive. The amendments made by the draft instrument will be twofold. First, it will make amendments to reflect that, once the UK is no longer an EU member state, the motor insurance directive will no longer apply to the UK. If we do not make this change, which relieves the MIB of obligations under the visiting victims scheme, the MIB would be required to continue to reimburse its foreign counterparts in respect of EU27 visitors injured in the UK.”
“The amendments in the draft instrument are necessary to uphold motor insurance requirements as they currently stand in the UK if we leave the EU without a deal. The draft instrument will also deal with requirements under the codified EU motor insurance directive for member states to make arrangements to allow victims injured in a road accident in an EEA country other than their home state to claim compensation when they return home. This is facilitated through insurance undertakings, with member states appointing in all other member states a claims representative to handle and settle claims by victims injured in accidents abroad. Each member state must also appoint a compensation body responsible for providing compensation in certain circumstances in which insurance undertakings through the claims representative fail to do so.”
“While the draft instrument was initially laid as a proposed negative instrument, we agreed with recommendations from the sifting Committees and the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments to re-lay the draft instrument using the affirmative procedure, acknowledging their concerns about the impact of the changes on UK citizens. I thank the Committees for their work in considering the draft SI. It may be helpful to give the Committee some background on the legislation that is being changed. In 1930, the UK Government introduced a law requiring every person who used a vehicle on the road to have at least third-party insurance. Today, compulsory motor insurance requirements are governed at EU level by the consolidated motor insurance directive, which was implemented in the UK through the Road Traffic Act 1988 and subordinate legislation.”
“The draft instrument seeks to maintain the status quo on compulsory motor insurance, including the requirement for all third-party motor insurance policies to cover the European economic area, along with making technical changes to ensure that insurance requirements for vehicles in the UK are preserved. It will also amend redundant references to the UK’s being an EU member state. The draft regulations will remove specific obligations on the UK’s Motor Insurers Bureau under the protection of visitors scheme, which is commonly referred to as the visiting victims scheme. If these changes are not made, the obligations would remain unilaterally on the MIB in the event of no deal. The changes will come into effect on exit day.”
“I beg to move, That the Committee has considered the draft Motor Vehicles (Compulsory Insurance) (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019. It is an honour to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Walker. The draft regulations will be made under the powers of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 and will be needed if the UK leaves the EU in March—this month—without a deal. The Government seek reciprocal arrangements on motor insurance following this country’s exit from the EU, but in the event of no deal, we are under an obligation to ensure that the country has a functioning statute book. The draft regulations will amend various pieces of domestic legislation to correct deficiencies in the legal framework for compulsory motor insurance arising from the UK’s leaving the EU without a deal.”
“The draft regulations therefore amend the Northern Irish legislation to make equivalent provision for Northern Ireland as for Great Britain. That is being done in close consultation with the Northern Ireland civil service. In summary, we aim for a comprehensive agreement on motor insurance following the UK’s exit from the EU, but the draft regulations are essential to ensure that in the event of no deal, the UK’s legal framework for motor insurance is clear and fully enforceable. The rules on compulsory motor insurance are at the heart of the road safety regime. We must avoid any disruption to their proper functioning if we can.”
“I am glad that the hon. Lady asked that question. The visiting victims provisions will be maintained beyond exit day for open cases in which legal proceedings were begun before the day on which EU law ceases to apply. After that, UK residents injured in a road traffic accident in the EEA will still be able to make a claim, but they will need to do so outside the UK. On Northern Ireland, the UK Government remain committed to restoring devolution, but with exit day less than a month away and in the continued absence of a Northern Ireland Executive, the window to prepare Northern Ireland’s statute book for exit is narrowing. In the interests of legal certainty in Northern Ireland, therefore, the UK Government are taking through the necessary secondary legislation for Northern Ireland at Westminster.”
“I thank hon. Members for their comments and questions. The hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull East rightly emphasises the importance of access to justice. It is a fundamental principle of our rule of law.”
“Member for North Ayrshire and Arran. I think the answer is that, if it turns out to be a material issue, the Government will of course look closely at how people claiming abroad can be supported in that environment.”
“Secondly, if the deal is accepted and goes through next week, or whenever it may be, there will be two sets of circumstances to think about after the transition period—of course, in the case of a deal there will be a transition period. The first regards what might be called uninsured or untraced drivers, for which we would again have to go to bilateral agreements, because they cannot be legislated for in their own right. The second regards drivers who are insured in the normal way, which we expect to be part of the future economic partnership. It is a measure of that discussion that they will be, I think, an important part of that. The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to raise that issue. The hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull East also asked whether there will be Government support, which in a way bears on the question from the hon.”
“I cannot comment on the facts that my hon. Friend gives, but I certainly confirm that the Government are thoroughly hostile to insurance claims that are not able to be made or that are not properly settled, whomever they may involve. That is also, in its own way, an access to justice issue. Returning to the point made by the hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull East on whether we seek to negotiate the same arrangement, there are two scenarios to be considered. The first is that we come out without a deal. As he will be aware, the Government and the MIB already have very close relationships with all the corresponding entities. That contact has been maintained and the discussions about that unlikely contingency are very much in view, as it were.”
“Member for Kingston upon Hull East and his party will not vote against the draft instrument, which we laid in order to avoid additional burdens on the UK insurance industry, and therefore on drivers. Those burdens would inevitably be quite regressive on the least well-off drivers if they were passed on in the form of insurance payments, which I am sure he would not want. It is only in the public interest that we laid the draft instrument in the first place.”
“I have not spoken to that association, but I am happy to do so. I have no doubt that, in the course of preparing the draft instrument, my officials spoke to the association or were well aware of its concerns, which are well tabled and understood. On the apparent lack of notice that the hon. Member for North Ayrshire and Arran touched on, she will be aware that the timetable is not of our choosing in every case. We have had to operate within a timetable that is in part based on the speed at which EU member states and their insurers, compensation bodies and so on are willing to go. It is not always the case that we can determine the timetable ourselves. I hope that the hon.”
“All those elements are essential to aviation security. The instrument retains the provisions, subject to the necessary amendments to remove specific references to the EU.”
“As an example, such flights might involve light aircraft with a maximum take-off weight of less than 15,000 kg, law enforcement flights, flights for medical services, emergency or rescue services, and certain private or business aircraft flights. The draft instrument makes no changes to those criteria. Regulation 2015/1998 makes detailed provision for the practical implementation of the measures contained in regulation 300/2008. The provisions cover access to airport security areas, airport planning, aircraft search, and passenger and baggage screening. It also covers matters such as cargo and rail security, security of supplies available in airport shops and on board aircraft, as well as recruitment and staff vetting procedures, training requirements and specifications of security equipment.”
“Provisions relating to criteria for EU recognition of the equivalence of third countries’ security measures with EU aviation standards are deleted, because the concept of equivalence with the baseline standards contained in the retained EU regulations does not make sense in a UK-only context, where we apply additional measures over and above that baseline. Regulation 1254/2009, the third regulation covered by the instrument, sets out criteria for allowing alternative, less burdensome security requirements to apply to airports or to demarcated parts of airports that deal only with flights, particularly non-commercial flights.”
“The amendments also replace legislative powers exercisable by the Commission or member states with regulation-making powers exercisable by the Secretary of State, maintaining equivalent levels of scrutiny. In essence, the security screening requirements for all direct passenger flights to and from the UK will remain as they are today. That is the important thing. Regulation 272/2009 covers screening and other matters. The types of permissible screening methods remain unchanged. References to Commission legislative procedures will be replaced by reference to domestic legislative procedures.”
“They cover matters such as airport security, passenger and baggage screening, cargo screening, training and recruitment, and technical equipment standards. I will summarise the corrections that the draft instrument makes to the regulations. Regulation 300/2008 establishes the framework for the aviation security regime within the European Union and sets out the common basic standards. The draft instrument makes changes to the scope of the retained regulation to reflect the fact that the UK will no longer be part of the EU after exit day; it does so by limiting its scope to the United Kingdom and by removing provisions that will no longer apply to the United Kingdom.”
“I beg to move, That the Committee has considered the draft Aviation Security (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019. It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Edward. The draft instrument will be made under the powers conferred by the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 and will be needed if the UK leaves the European Union without a deal. As the Committee will be aware, delivering the deal negotiated with the EU remains the Government’s top priority, but of course we must make all reasonable plans to prepare for a no-deal scenario. The draft instrument corrects seven EU instruments and makes minor changes to the Aviation Security Act 1982. The regulations contain the framework for providing security to passengers and for cargo travelling by air.”
“Yes, I can confirm that, in line with the European Union (Withdrawal) Act, the purpose of the instrument is precisely to lift and shift regulations so that there is no substantive change between the position before we left the EU and the position afterwards. If I may, I will continue my speech.”
“Let me say two things. First, as the hon. Gentleman will be aware, this is a very complex area and the draft regulations cover a wide range of subjects, including—I have listed some of them—airport security areas, planning, aircraft search, passenger baggage screening and many others. Secondly, we are not in a position to—indeed, we have made an undertaking to Parliament that we will not—change the substantive provisions, even where improvements are possible for policy reasons that are widely accepted across Parliament. That is because this is a lift-and-shift exercise. It should remain open to Parliament to scrutinise, through the normal mechanisms, any further legislation that changes Government policy.”
“That is one way of putting it. I would say this: the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 and this process with SIs establish a baseline against which a future autonomous British Government can make decisions.”
“No, let me finish my point. In many cases, the standards we choose will be higher—potentially significantly higher, as in some respects they are in the areas of airport security and aircraft security—than the EU regulations have been hitherto.”
“We are wandering somewhat away from the SI before this Committee, but I am thoroughly enjoying what might be referred to as Thursday morning theatrics from both sides of the Committee. As the hon. Gentleman knows, the Civil Aviation Authority has for many years been a trend setter, a path setter and a standards setter across the EU. Much of the benefit of the European Aviation Safety Agency has come from its taking those standards and promulgating them more widely. There has been genuine benefit on both sides. We have benefited from the promulgation of CAA standards across Europe, and we have benefited from the scrutiny and feedback that those standards have received from EU countries, and vice versa.”
“As an unpublished instrument, before and after exit, the decision cannot be scrutinised as the subject matter of legislation by Parliament. As such, the draft instrument cannot make any amendments to it. As the decision contains defects if it is not amended, the draft instrument revokes the decision. However, in order to retain the important aviation security rules contained in the decision, the requirements previously contained in it will be made the subject of a direction, which will be given by the Secretary of State under powers contained in the 1982 Act. The direction will form part of the single consolidated direction that sets out our domestic aviation security requirements that apply on top of EU legislation. The content of the new direction will be disseminated to the same UK entities as those that currently see the EU decision.”
“The draft instrument also amends the Aviation Security Act 1982 to remove references relating to Commission inspections and Commission inspectors. Finally, Commission decision C (2015) 8005 is a restricted, confidential instrument that provides additional but security-sensitive details on the aviation security requirements contained in the regulations. For example, it sets the technical standards for aviation security equipment, such as the materials and quantities, and details the methods and percentages of various screening requirements. The decision will form part of retained EU law; however, because it is security-sensitive and not published before exit day, it is not required to be published on or after exit day.”
“On expiry, carriers and screening entities will need to apply directly to the UK for new designations, which will be granted using largely the same criteria as in the existing system, to minimise any additional burden on industry. Regulation 2019/103 makes amendments to regulation 2015/1998 that are already incorporated. It also contains measures that apply only after exit day, and are therefore not retained. The only provision in the regulation that is retained relates solely to the date on which the un-retained measures apply. As such, the provision is by itself meaningless, and the draft instrument therefore revokes it. Regulation 72/2010 covers the requirements for Commission inspections of EU airports and national authorities that will no longer be applicable. The draft instrument revokes that regulation.”
“Responsibility for administering the system, and for granting designations, is currently shared between member states. If the UK leaves the EU without a deal, it will no longer be part of that system, but it is critical that we maintain our inbound cargo security protections. The effect of the draft instrument is to retain the requirement that carriers must hold a security designation in order to fly cargo into the UK from third countries, and to apply that in a UK-only context. The new system of UK ACC3 designations will be managed by the Civil Aviation Authority and the Department for Transport. To ensure a seamless transition on exit day, new UK designations will be issued to all carriers flying into the UK that currently hold EU designations.”
“As I said, as far as possible we are aiming to replicate the existing arrangements. With his laser-like eye for detail, my hon. Friend identifies an important area. The regime will have to change a little as a result of Brexit, as I will set out. One key area of regulation 2015/1998 is the EU inbound cargo regime. The EU operates a regime known as ACC3, which stands for air cargo or mail carrier operating into the European Union from a third-country airport. That is precisely the area targeted by my hon. Friend. In essence, it is a requirement for air carriers carrying cargo into the EU from a non-EU country to hold security designations that confirm that they are screening cargo to the required standards and that a secure supply chain exists from the origin of the cargo to its point of entry into the EU.”
“I can confirm that my officials have regular and continuing conversations with both the ICAO and the CAA, and they have considered the correct approach in some depth. However, if the hon. Gentleman or the ICAO, through a different channel, want to write to express further concerns, they are welcome to do so. The draft instrument ensures that in the event of a no-deal exit from the EU, there will be a legislative framework for aviation security that will continue to keep passengers, aviation infrastructure and cargo safe and secure. I commend the instrument to the Committee.”
“If there are no other interventions, I will close by asking colleagues on both sides of the Committee to ignore the remarks made by the hon. Member for Huddersfield about my being a good Minister—a threat to my reputation that I will frankly struggle to overcome. I wish him well in his continuing efforts to say positive and sensible things about airport and aviation security, and I commend the instrument to the Committee. Question put.”
“I beg to move, That the Committee has considered the draft Road Vehicle Emission Performance Standards (Cars and Vans) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019.”
“The regulations were tabled under the negative procedure and considered by the sifting Committees of both Houses, which both recommended that they be upgraded to affirmative, given the potential impact on manufacturers. I thank the Committees for their consideration of these and other statutory instruments.”
“The statutory instruments are an essential part of those preparations, and they will ensure that there continues to be a well-functioning regulatory regime in the UK. Currently, motor vehicles can be registered and placed on the UK market only if they have a valid EU type approval that demonstrates that they conform to EU standards, including safety and emissions requirements. The legislation governing that is a mix of domestic and directly applicable EU regulations. The draft type approval regulations will ensure that the Government continue to have control over the registration of vehicles in the UK, while minimising the burden on manufacturers.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Howarth. As the Committee knows, the Government have a responsibility to be prepared for any scenario on EU exit day and will therefore continue to lay before the House EU exit statutory instruments for a no-deal outcome. If they are no longer required on exit day, we expect to defer, revoke or amend them in time for the end of the implementation period. As the Department responsible for vehicle regulation, the Department for Transport has conducted intensive work to ensure that there continues to be a functioning legislative framework for this important sector of the economy. Although we strongly believe that leaving with a deal is the best outcome for the UK and the EU, it is our duty to make reasonable preparations for all scenarios.”
“Provisions on the monitoring and reporting of data from heavy goods vehicles have been laid before the House in a separate statutory instrument. Although we want a deal that recognises the equivalence of UK and EU type approval schemes, the changes made in the type approval regulations and the new car and van CO 2 emissions standards regulations will ensure that we retain control of the registration of vehicles; that we maintain continuity of vehicle approvals and emissions; that we minimise costs to industry; and that the legal framework continues to work after the UK’s withdrawal from the European Union, while maintaining the Government’s commitment, set out in the strategy “The Road to Zero”, to “a future approach as we leave the European Union that is at least as ambitious as the current arrangements for vehicle emissions regulation.” I hope colleagues will join me in supporting the regulations, and I commend them to the Committee.”
“The related provisions that I have outlined—for example, the derogations and pooling provisions—are also amended by the regulations to make sure that those provisions will work sensibly in the UK context while maintaining existing standards. All minor deficiencies have also been corrected as appropriate—for example, by replacing “Commission” with “Secretary of State”. Six related delegated regulations and 25 implementing decisions that will be retained are also amended by this statutory instrument to ensure their continued function in the UK. The amendments will come into force on exit day. Legislation on CO 2 targets does not directly exist in the EU at present, so the targets are for vans and cars only.”
“The regulations align national policy as closely as possible with the existing EU regulation, providing certainty for industry that its already established business plans will not be affected by the UK leaving the EU. The regulations we are considering also ensure that we meet our long-standing commitment to having a post-EU emissions regime that is at least as ambitious as the current arrangements, and they provide the framework for the Government to assume the obligations and functions of the European Commission under the existing EU regulation. That can best be summarised by explaining that these regulations retain the target-setting approach and formulae establishing individual targets, as is already the case under EU law, but they will apply only to cars and vans that have been newly registered in the UK after exit day.”
“Those include derogations, which ease emissions reduction requirements on manufacturers registering fewer than 300,000 cars or 22,000 vans a year; pooling, which allows manufacturers that fall under the same umbrella group to combine their registrations, effectively becoming one manufacturer for the purposes of emissions reduction; eco-innovations, which allow manufacturers to receive credits for technologies that reduce CO 2 on the road, but that are not taken into account during vehicle testing—for example, the use of a solar roof—and super-credits, which provide manufacturers with additional incentives for registering ultra-low emissions vehicles.”
“As only the manufacturers’ fleet average is regulated, they may sell any vehicle they wish provided that the emissions of their fleet balance out to meet their target. Fines of €95 per vehicle per gram of exceedance are levied on manufacturers that miss their target. The EU regulation contains a number of provisions that give manufacturers flexibility in delivering their target.”
“The existing EU regulations establish mandatory fleet average CO 2 emissions targets for all cars and vans registered in the EU each calendar year. For cars, the target is currently 130 grams of CO 2 per kilometre, and it will reduce to 95 grams in 2020. For vans, the target is 175 grams of CO 2 per kilometre, lowering to 147 grams in 2020. Those requirements have been one of the key drivers towards improving the efficiency of new cars and vans since their introduction. On the basis of those top-level targets, manufacturers receive individual targets based on a comparison between the average weight of their fleet and the average weight of all relevant vehicles registered in that calendar year. Manufacturers with heavier fleets receive individual targets above the headline target, while those with lighter fleets receive targets below it.”
“We have spoken directly with all the major trade associations—the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders, the Motorcycle Industry Association, the Agricultural Engineers Association, as well as those representing specialist manufacturers such as the Wheelchair Accessible Vehicle Converters Association. The meetings have included those who are directly involved in the day-to-day process of type approval, as well as people in managerial roles from manufacturers. Although the industry does not want a no-deal Brexit, it recognises the proposals as a light-touch, pragmatic contingency plan. I turn to the draft Road Vehicle Emission Performance Standards (Cars and Vans) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019.”
“In addition, the regulations amend the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994 to provide that vehicles entering the UK after exit day can be registered only if they have a UK approval. Further minor amendments are proposed to the Road Vehicle (Approval) Regulations 2009 and to the three retained frameworks for motorcycles, agricultural vehicles and engines for non-road mobile machinery, to ensure that that retained EU legislation remains operable after the UK leaves the EU. The amendments will come into force on exit day, except for the harmonisation of the legal definition of type approval certification across the UK, which will come into force 22 days after the regulations are made. During the development of the regulations, the Department engaged widely across the automotive sector.”
“That allows the additional time required to develop a full UK type approval scheme and to correct the remaining deficiencies in the thousands of pages of technical annexes to the retained EU legislation. We will formally consult on those proposals, and we aim to lay the statutory instrument before the House later this year for Parliament to debate and vote on. The draft regulations will be made for the most part under the powers conferred by the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018. To correct a deficiency in existing UK legislation, the powers conferred by the European Communities Act 1972 will also be used to harmonise the legal definition of type approval certification across the UK. The regulations create a UK approval scheme by amending the Road Traffic Act 1988 in Great Britain and the Road Traffic (Northern Ireland) Order 1981.”
“Without the UK scheme, the Government could not act to stop another Volkswagen-type emissions scandal—we could not prevent those vehicles from being put on the road, withdraw approval of them or require additional testing to ensure that they conformed to the applicable standards until the EU had acted on the matter. The regulations temporarily double the limits for the national small series type approval until the end of 2019. That specific measure reduces the burden of regulation on smaller manufacturers who sell only in the UK market. Many are UK companies that provide essential and sometimes unique vehicles and products to our domestic market. The regulations are subject to a sunset clause, so they represent an interim arrangement that is valid for a maximum of two years.”
“I will come to that issue later, so I will respond to my right hon. Friend then. The most apparently naive questions are always the hardest to answer. The regulations will require vehicles to be registered using a provisional UK approval, and they allow the Vehicle Certification Agency to issue provisional UK approvals to manufacturers who hold a valid EU type approval without additional costly re-testing. Importantly, the environmental and safety standards to which vehicles will be approved under the UK scheme will remain unchanged from those applicable under the EU regime. There is a good reason why the UK should not simply accept EU approvals, rather than creating the UK scheme proposed in the regulations.”
“I thank all hon. Members who have contributed. The hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull East asked about the timing of legislation, and I assure him that we expect to lay a second statutory instrument before the House by the end of the summer. That is well in hand. I am not sure what question the hon. Member for Edinburgh North and Leith asked. She denounced us for being bonkers with the constitution when it is, of course, SNP policy to do exactly the same thing with the UK. I have no doubt that a considerable body of legislation would have to be homologated in Scotland’s own constitutional arrangements, whatever they are, once that had taken place.”