Norma Foley
Kerry · Fianna Fáil · Ireland
“Therefore, the means by which the motion proposes to address the challenges raised may not specifically align with the approach being taken, but I absolutely accept that the underlying goals are the same and I accept the Deputies' sincerity in seeking to achieve them.”
“I intend to bring forward specific proposals arising from this work towards the end of the year, depending on progress and the outcome of ongoing engagement with stakeholders.”
“Working with that office, the Department of Children, Disability and Equality is absolutely committed to seeking to expand and reform specialist disability services in order to maximise individuals’ independence and support them to live lives of their choosing in places of their choosing.”
“A number of new measures are in train to move towards planned provision of residential supports, including the provision of planned residential placements under a new initiative, as outlined in the HSE’s 2026 national service plan.”
“I absolutely accept they are fighting tirelessly to highlight the need for us to ensure their loved ones are cared for and provided with appropriate housing, as and when it is needed. For far too many families, placements are made at the last minute, causing distress to individuals and their families.”
“In line with commitments contained in the programme for Government and the national human rights strategy, the Department of Children, Disability and Equality is now developing a new vision and reform strategy for disability services.”
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“She was eventually brought to a day centre but, even then, her attendance could be irregular. By 2009, the commission's report states, Grace's oral hygiene had been substantially neglected for some years to the extent that seven of her teeth needed to be extracted as a result of gum disease. Grace lived with Family X into adulthood, until she was nearly 31 years of age. In July 2009, the HSE removed Grace from the care of her former foster mother and placed Grace in residential care. She was made a ward of court in March 2010. The Office of the General Solicitor for Minors and Wards of Court, as Grace's committee in wardship, along with her legal team, represented Grace's interests before the commission.”
“Throughout her time with Family X, no social worker visited Grace's placement before 1995. Grace was not removed from the foster care family even when a complaint of sexual abuse was made to the South Eastern Health Board against Mr. X in 1996. The allegation was in relation to another individual who was no longer in the care of Family X. Mr. X died in the early 2000s. In 2007, a social worker warned that Grace was vulnerable to abuse and exploitation in the areas of sexual abuse, financial abuse, physical abuse and neglect. He did so after becoming aware of the previous allegation against Mr. X. Grace was eventually removed from Family X in 2009 and moved to a residential facility. For many years during her time with Family X, Grace did not attend any school.”
“Grace was born in a hospital in the south of Ireland in 1978. Grace has an intellectual disability and is non-verbal, with a requirement for lifelong care. Grace is now 46 years of age. As an infant, Grace was given into the voluntary care of the State. Grace lived in a number of residential and foster settings within the then Eastern Health Board area up to the age of 11. In February 1989, she was placed by the South Eastern Health Board in the foster care of a family in their home in the south east. The Farrelly commission referred to this family as "Family X", again to preserve Grace's right to privacy. The foster parents are referred to as Mr. X and Mrs. X. Mr. X was 67 years old when Grace came to live with the family in 1989 and the foster mother was 50 years of age. Grace would stay with this family for the next 20 years.”
“I apologise again to the House. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Ceann Comhairle as ucht an ama agus an deis seo a thabhairt dom. I would like to express my personal gratitude to the Ceann Comhairle, members of the Opposition and all Members for the manner in which I have been facilitated today. I thank them all. The Farrelly commission is a statutory commission of investigation established in 2017 to investigate the care and protection of "Grace" and others in a former foster home in the south east. The commission is entirely independent of the Government, the Minister and the Department in the performance of its functions. At the heart of the report is Grace. A pseudonym was chosen to protect the identity and privacy of the young woman who lived with the foster family. We do not know her name and that is as it should be.”
“The key issue that has been identified across the sector with retention of staff is the financial rewards they get to do the work they do. These are professionals who deserve to be paid at the rate they should be paid. It is for that reason there is a ring-fenced €45 million being made available. I accept the independence of the joint labour committee but I am saying €45 million is available and I would like to see it being used to the maximum for the workers so they would be suitably paid.”
“Nurturing Skills aims to support the professional development of the workforce and sets out plans to raise the profile of careers in the sector, establish role profiles, career pathways, qualification requirements, along with leadership development opportunities. To support the development of career pathways, the role profiles of educator, lead educator and manager, which were set out in Nurturing Skills, were given legal meaning when used as the basis for the employment regulations orders for the sector. These orders now embed a career structure by setting different rates of pay for the different roles. Further developing career pathways, both Nurturing Skills and Equal Start identify special posts of responsibility and other measures.”
“Outcomes from the joint labour committee process are supported by Government through core funding, which has seen its allocation increase from €259 million in year 1 to €350 million for the coming programme year 2025-26. An additional €45 million, which I referenced earlier, has been ring-fenced in the coming programme year to support employers to meet the costs of further increases to the minimum rates of pay conditional on updated employment regulation orders. Staff in this sector play a key role in supporting children’s development and well-being, working in partnership with families. Recognising their central importance for the quality of provision, my Department continues to deliver on the workforce plan for the sector, Nurturing Skills.”
“I thank the Deputy. I acknowledge many early learning and childcare services report recruitment and retention challenges. In general, these challenges are not caused by insufficient supply of qualified staff, but by high levels of turnover. The most recent annual early years sector profile survey shows staff turnover is at 24.5%. It is estimated that one third of staff leaving services are doing so to move to another service. Staff turnover is linked to pay and working conditions. However, the State is not an employer of staff and neither I nor my Department set pay or working conditions. The joint labour committee process is the formal mechanism by which employer and employee representatives can negotiate minimum pay rates for the sector.”
“Some early work is being carried out to explore options to introduce a segment of public provision. This will require significantly detailed policy development and design in order to progress and implement this programme. The programme for Government commitments will inform the Department's contribution to the upcoming review of the national development plan, which will set out capital allocations for future years also.”
“To be fair, the Deputy has put it very eloquently and succinctly. Access to childcare and early learning opportunities is hugely important, and the Government recognises that. As regards our commitment, the present building blocks extension scheme money is required to be spent in this calendar year, and the Department does not currently have any further funding available for additional capital schemes this year. However, the approach to capital investment in future years is being considered within the context of the programme for Government commitments, and they are considerable when it comes to this area. For the first time, the programme for Government also contains a commitment to public provision and to capital investment to build or purchase State-owned facilities.”
“It is working beautifully in some parts of the country but I am well aware where it is not working. We are engaging with the Minister for housing on that, particularly as regards the planning guidelines and what we expect going forward as regards provision for childcare.”
“I assure the Deputy that childcare and early learning is an absolute priority of this Government. The building blocks extension grant scheme is an important part of that. I appreciate that €25 million is €25 million, but the 78 applications were just the applications. There was no impediment in saying "We will take only X number". That was what we received. It is important that up to €750,000 is available to not-for-profit providers wishing to purchase or construct a new premises delivering net additional capacity. It is a significant amount of money. The Deputy is right, however, about the number of properties around the place that are empty and were designated when they were being built to support housing developments and are not being used as childcare facilities. There is an issue with that.”
“The OPW and Pobal completed appraisals of eligible applications against three criteria, which were evidence of need, quality of application and readiness to progress the project, and the scores on these criteria have been collated. A list of recommended services is under review with further detail being examined in some cases. I expect to announce imminently the outcome of the appraisals and the next steps of the process.”
“The scheme has four strands: extensions to existing premises for private services, extensions to existing premises for community services, purchases of new premises for community services and construction of new premises for community services. The building blocks extension grant scheme was launched on 4 November 2024. The closing date for applications was 30 January. A total of 78 applications were received: four purchasing applications, 16 private extension applications, 22 construction applications and 36 community extension applications. These applications come from a variety of locations in the country. Initial eligibility reviews, a full appraisal process and further suitability checks have been undertaken on each of these applications.”
“The building blocks extension grant scheme is designed to increase the number of full day places for one- to three-year-olds, pre-ECCE age range, in existing core funding partner services. A total of €25 million has been made available and it is anticipated to deliver a significant increase in places for this age cohort. The building blocks extension grant scheme is offering the largest capital grants in many years and allows, for the first time since the national childcare investment programme, for the purchase or construction of new facilities to be operated by existing community providers. Up to €750,000 is available to not-for-profit providers wishing to purchase or construct new premises delivering net additional capacity.”
“I can confirm that I am meeting with the General Solicitor for Minors and Wards of Court. We need to hear what she has to say. There is no doubt it is hugely concerning.”
“Specifically on the question the Deputy raised about Grace and the commission of investigation, the commission, which was into certain matters relating to disability services in the south east and other related matters and is known as the Farrelly commission, is an entirely independent statutory commission of investigation empowered to investigate matters of significant public concern. It possesses robust investigative powers and, by design and by law, exercises its functions and powers independently of the Government, of me as Minister and of my Department. That is as was set out. The General Solicitor for Minors and Wards of Court, who is the High Court appointed committee for Grace, made information available into the public domain today, as the Deputy referred to.”
“Missing children are predominantly a phenomenon involving separated children seeking international protection and, in particular, in relation to the children who remain unaccounted for, with 99% of-----”
“Just to be clear, over the ten-year period that was part of the Deputy's question, there have been 221 admissions to care, as he has said and I have confirmed, out of a total of 11,183, where sexual abuse has been reported. These were admissions to care, and out of a total of 11,183 such admissions, there were 221 admissions to care where sexual abuse was reported. Regarding the figure, there may have been instances where a child had been admitted to care more than once and, as I said, the Department is happy to provide the Deputy with a table containing the full year-by-year breakdown. On the children missing from care, these can fall under two categories: children who go missing from mainstream services for children in the care of Tusla and separated children seeking international protection.”
“Tusla has provided data on the number of children who have been admitted to care in the past ten years, as per the Deputy's question, where the report type, as assessed by a social worker, was sexual abuse. Over the ten-year period in question, sexual abuse has been reported in 221 admissions to care out of a total of 11,183. Regarding this figure, there may be incidences where a child has been admitted to care more than once. The Department can provide a table containing the full year-by-year breakdown. Other reasons for admitting a child into care can relate to neglect, ill-treatment or other types of abuse, such as physical abuse. Separately, since 2021, 115 referrals have been made by Tusla to An Garda Síochána under Operation Cosnaim, an operation set up by An Garda Síochána for the investigation of child sexual exploitation.”
“More broadly, Children First provides national guidance for professionals, organisations and individuals to help keep all children safe and protected from harm, including sexual abuse. The Children First Act 2015 provides in detail a number of key child protection measures, including raising awareness of child abuse and neglect, providing for mandated reporting of child protection concerns, and improving child protection arrangements in organisations providing services to children. When children in care disclose sexual abuse and their immediate safety has been secured, the child will be referred to the most appropriate service where their need can be met.”
“As the Deputy is aware, Tusla responds to all reports of sexual abuse promptly to ensure children are safeguarded. A child abuse notification is reported to An Garda Síochána in line with the joint working protocol between An Garda Síochána and Tusla. An Garda Síochána will deal with any criminal aspects of cases alleging abuse under the relevant criminal justice legislation. All allegations of child abuse are responded to, ensuring the safety and welfare needs of identified children who may be at risk of potential harm are protected. Where applicable, a child abuse substantiation procedure investigation will be undertaken to determine whether an allegation of child abuse is founded or unfounded.”
“Again, it speaks to this understanding that, the earlier a child has access to additional support, the better it is for the child. I am keen to see this new model take root.”
“As I said previously, we all know that the earlier a child can get additional support, the better the outcome. We know that from our present education settings. When we talk about early learning and support, the earlier we can provide supports, the better. That is the specific reason we are looking at going beyond the ECCE model and including children who have not yet reached that point. The beauty of AIM is that it is showing itself to be flexible. We are continually learning through the model. Where there are opportunities to do things better, to enhance things or to meet the individual needs of a child, it is the aim and ambition of the programme to do so. We will continue to keep it under review and see what the scope is going forward.”
“For sure, I will. It is a great model. Any additional supports that can be made available to children in any educational setting should be made available. As I previously said in respect of AIM supports, there is flexibility in the model. That is important. It can provide targeted supports and universal supports. Targeted measures are very much based on the individual needs of children. These might comprise specialised equipment or appliances or a capital grant to make minor alterations. As I have said, there can also be supports to reduce the child-adult ratio in the room or to provide an extra staff member to be shared as a resource. There is great flexibility there. I reiterate that we intend to go beyond what is currently there and to design a model for younger children who are not yet eligible for the ECCE programme.”
“It is intended that, over time, all children with additional needs will have access to supports under AIM to access and participate in early learning and childcare. To this end, my officials are currently designing tailored AIM supports for younger children not yet eligible for the ECCE programme.”
“These targeted supports are allocated based on the individual child’s specific needs and can include specialised equipment, appliances or capital grants towards minor building alterations. Under level 7 of the access and inclusion model, services can also receive additional funding to either reduce the child-to-adult ratio in the room or to fund an extra staff member as a shared resource with other children in the setting. Data show that approximately 96% of AIM level 7 applications result in a recommendation for either a single or shared support. For this programme year to date, more than 9,000 children have been approved for targeted supports under AIM. A table showing a breakdown of targeted supports across counties broken down by each programme year will be made available to the Deputy. I will ensure that happens.”
“The access and inclusion model, AIM, has supported more than 24,000 children with additional needs to access and meaningfully participate in the early childhood care and education, ECCE, programme since 2020. In September 2024, AIM was expanded beyond time spent in the ECCE programme for ECCE-aged children. These children can now access AIM supports for up to an additional three hours per day during the ECCE term and up to six hours per day outside of the ECCE term, that is, during holiday periods. The supports available under AIM can be universal or targeted. Universal supports are designed to create a more inclusive culture in settings through training courses and qualifications for staff. Where universal supports are not enough to meet the needs of an individual child, targeted supports are available.”
“I agree that we should look at the widest offering already available within communities. We also have work to do regarding new housing developments where provision should be made for childcare facilities. That is being asked for but it is not always provided. In some areas, it works really well but, to be honest, it does not work well in other areas. A significant body of work needs to be done there. We are engaging with the Department of housing in that regard. The Deputy is right. Wherever there is an opportunity to use a building in an area to provide an integrated service, I can see value in doing so. Childminders now all have an opportunity to register and become part of the system. That is important. We encourage childminders to do just that.”
“The Deputy is 100% correct. Accessibility is hugely important. If we do not have sufficient places available to parents then it is a huge burden. We are currently looking at seeking the information on where there is a need for the service and where the service is not available locally. The Government is currently looking at ways the State can step in at that point to provide those additional places. Those places would enhance what is already being provided by private providers but it would provide additionality led by the State. The Deputy asked about the money and resources. Currently, 92% of providers are in the core funding mechanism or process. That has helped to reduce costs for parents. On average, it is a substantial reduction for parents. We have more than 4,400 providers in the system at present.”
“Very importantly, with regard to the voices of parents an Ipsos poll to parents will also inform future planning. This will enable the State to step in where it is necessary.”
“The fee management system introduced through core funding ensures that the investment in affordability is not unnecessarily absorbed by fee increases or uncapped fees. The programme for Government commits to continuing to improve affordability and to reach the €200 per month cap within the lifetime of the Government. In addition, a forward planning model - which I have already referred to - is in development . This will be central to my Department's plans to achieve the policy goals to build an affordable, high-quality and accessible early learning and childcare system, with State-led facilities adding capacity. Officials are currently developing a mapping tool, using administrative data on schemes and population location, to identify areas where supply and demand are mismatched and are greatest.”
“It will build on the considerable work done to date, including the early childhood care and education programme, which provides two years of pre-school without charge and enjoys participation rates of 96% each year, and the national childcare scheme, which provides subsidies, both universal and targeted, to reduce the costs to parents for children to participate in early learning and childcare. The national childcare scheme has already seen the extension of the universal subsidy to all children under the age of 15 and two increases to the minimum hourly subsidy in recent years. The minimum subsidy is now worth €96.20 per child per week for 45 hours of early learning and childcare.”
“Investment in early learning and childcare is now at an unprecedented level, with public funding exceeding €1.37 billion in 2025 clearly demonstrating the Government’s commitment in this area. As well as addressing affordability, this investment has served to improve accessibility, availability and the quality of provision. The new programme for Government provides the impetus to go further and to deliver more high-quality early learning and childcare places at a cost that is affordable to families.”
“There has been a significant uptake, be it for professional development or ensuring that people can move to level 7 and level 8 qualifications, and the funding is provided for same.”
“It is important that there is now a forward planning unit in the Department to ensure we are looking towards the future to see where there are significant gaps in the need for the service and the lack of the service being provided. The Government has given the commitment in the programme for Government that where this gap might be in play, and where no providers are taking the opportunity to provide the service, the State will step in. Currently a mapping tool is being developed and utilised by the Department to ensure we have the most up-to-date information on that. On ensuring the workforce is suitably upskilled, the nurturing skills programme is a very important source of support for workers.”
“The Deputy is 100% correct that the most important thing here is to ensure that those who work in the sector are suitably recompensed for working in the sector because if we do not have the workers then the providers cannot provide the service and parents cannot ensure their children are being cared for.”
“I confirm there is a significant increase through core funding. It is going to €350 million for the 2025-26 year, which is a hugely significantly amount of resource provided by the State. As I said previously, 92% of providers are participating in the core funding model. In its entirety, if we look at the last three years and going into this following year, almost €1 billion is being expended by the State here. It is a real surety for providers that this funding is being made available. It is important to say when we talk about closures and the threat of closures that we have had lowest level of closures ever in the system over the past six years.”
“Officials from my Department continue to discuss issues of recruitment and retention with stakeholders through a subgroup of the early learning and childcare stakeholder forum. The general consensus of the subgroup is that pay and working conditions are a significant barrier for recruitment and retention. In addition to ring-fenced funding to support improvements in pay and working conditions, some outcome actions from the subgroup include the importance of introducing the student fast-track process for recognition of studies to work in services out of term, and the assessment of unfinished qualifications, whereby people who may have started a relevant qualification but did not get to finish it can have completed work assessed for meeting qualification requirements.”
“The joint labour committee process is the formal mechanism by which employer and employee representatives can negotiate minimum pay rates for the sector, which are set down in law through employment regulation orders. Outcomes from the joint labour committee process are supported by Government through core funding, which has seen its allocation increase from €259 million in year one to €350 million for the coming programme year 2025-26. As many Deputies have referred to, an additional €45 million is now ring-fenced in the coming year to support employers in meeting the costs of further increases to the minimum rates of pay. This allocation is conditional on updated employment regulation orders.”
“I thank the Deputy. The annual early years sector profile survey does not collect staff retention data specifically. However, it does record data on staff turnover. Data from this survey shows that, over the period from 2019 to 2023, staff turnover rates ranged from 23% in 2019 to 24.5% in 2023. The 2023 data shows that almost one third of the turnover rate is due to staff moving from one provider to another. Staff turnover is linked to pay and working conditions. While the Government is the primary funder of the sector, the State is not an employer of staff and neither I, nor the Department, as I have said previously, set pay or working conditions.”
“I do not think that we should forget that. It is a worthwhile investment. There is more to be done, but the work is well under way.”
“I cannot and will not underestimate how important it is that we get this right. However, I am also conscious that it is an evolving and live situation. Things change and move with time. From every step of the way of the introduction of core funding, there have been learnings, notwithstanding the fact that there is a significant evaluation of the first year of core funding, and how this evaluation will examine the early implementation of core funding and make recommendations for future changes and additions that we might be able to make for the grant. As I have said, the findings of that will be published in and around the first quarter of 2025 or thereafter. The Deputy made a very strong point that, where there is sufficient childcare, it ensures that we have equality of access to the labour market.”
“I hear, from engagement with providers, that there are issues for them with regard to the amount of administrative burdens placed on them. We are doing a body of work in that regard, while also supporting parents and workers in the sector.”
“As I have said previously, there has been almost €1 billion of investment by the State into this whole sector. It is unprecedented; it has never been done before. It has had a significant impact, both in terms of supporting providers, but also reducing costs for parents. We are now seeing more services opening than closing, which is a significant feature and consequence of core funding. In fact, 92% of all providers are in the core funding model. It is very high. As a consequence, we have seen fee freezes in a majority of services. We have seen a stability of funding for providers, which is hugely important to them. Again, as I have said, we have the lowest level of closures in six years. It is quite significant in that respect. There is more work to be done here, however.”
“It is an unprecedented investment by the State. The details of the allocation will be published shortly, and has been informed by data from previous years as well as stakeholder feedback. An evaluation of the first year of core funding and the development of an evaluation framework for core funding is currently under way. This project will examine the early implementation of core funding and will make recommendations for further evaluations of the grant. Findings from the project are expected in or after quarter 4 2025. This project is being undertaken by the Irish Government Economic and Evaluation Service, IGEES, policy analysts working in the research and evaluation unit of my Department.”
“The allocation of this additional funding in years 2 and 3 was informed by the data from previous years and feedback from stakeholders, as well as an independent financial review of sessional services by Frontier Economics. Targeted supports for small and sessional services introduced in year 2 were also enhanced in year 3. Moreover, changes to fee management were introduced in year 3, enabling low-fee services to apply for a fee increase. The full-year allocation for year 4 of core funding will be €350 million. As already has been referenced, a further €45 million has been ring-fenced to support employers to meet the costs of further increases to the minimum rates of pay in the sector. Combined, and contingent on the third successive employment regulation order, the core funding allocation will exceed €390 million.”
“I thank the Deputy. This issue is of particular interest to him and he has raised it many times. As I have said previously, the introduction of core funding in 2022 brought a significant increase in investment for the sector, with €259 million of funding paid directly to services in year 1 of the scheme, of which €210.8 million was entirely new funding. Since the scheme was introduced, its effectiveness has been subject to ongoing review and the scheme itself has evolved year on year. Core funding increased by 11% to reach €287 million for the second year, and by a further 15% to €331 million for the current and third year of the scheme.”
“We are also in a process, as I mentioned earlier, where there is a lack of availability. A body of work is being done there to allow the State to step in where necessary.”
“I agree with the Deputy; I believe there is unanimity here regarding the €45 million and how it should be spent in full. If the joint labour committee is unable to agree on a new employment regulation order for the start of the 2025-26 year, the ring-fenced €45 million will not be made available at the start of the year either. That is the purpose of it. I am hopeful and it is my wish that everything will be done in advance of the 2025-26 year. Obviously, it is a win-win situation for everyone if the children are being cared for by those who are suitably recompensed and have the qualifications that are required. It is looking after the children, the parents and the providers. Every year since core funding was introduced, we have seen an increase in the number of those who are in this market now.”