Norma Foley
Kerry · Fianna Fáil · Ireland
“Therefore, the means by which the motion proposes to address the challenges raised may not specifically align with the approach being taken, but I absolutely accept that the underlying goals are the same and I accept the Deputies' sincerity in seeking to achieve them.”
“I intend to bring forward specific proposals arising from this work towards the end of the year, depending on progress and the outcome of ongoing engagement with stakeholders.”
“Working with that office, the Department of Children, Disability and Equality is absolutely committed to seeking to expand and reform specialist disability services in order to maximise individuals’ independence and support them to live lives of their choosing in places of their choosing.”
“A number of new measures are in train to move towards planned provision of residential supports, including the provision of planned residential placements under a new initiative, as outlined in the HSE’s 2026 national service plan.”
“I absolutely accept they are fighting tirelessly to highlight the need for us to ensure their loved ones are cared for and provided with appropriate housing, as and when it is needed. For far too many families, placements are made at the last minute, causing distress to individuals and their families.”
“In line with commitments contained in the programme for Government and the national human rights strategy, the Department of Children, Disability and Equality is now developing a new vision and reform strategy for disability services.”
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“I want to acknowledge too - I will not reference any specific individual case that arose last night - that in the main Tusla is working with young people in care coming from really difficult, traumatic and complex situations through no fault of their own.”
“I join with the Deputy in saying what all we saw and witnessed on the programme last night has been incredibly upsetting in terms of the young people who were part of it and the experiences that they shared. I want to acknowledge that. I want to acknowledge also the staff that work with them every day. This past week, I met with social workers and social care workers. I am very conscious of the work of the foster care system and foster care families. These are very complex situations. The vast majority of children and young people in State care are in foster care or residential care. Some 96% of children are either in foster care or residential care. Nine out of ten young people who are in foster care and residential care are in education, further training, apprenticeship or whatever the case might be.”
“Tusla provides regular data to my Department on its operation of special emergency arrangements. I am pleased to share that, as of Friday, 17 April, Tusla reported that there were no separated children seeking international protection placed in an SEA. In relation to that, it has come to my attention today that, whilst, on Friday, there were no children seeking international protection in special emergency accommodation, as of this week there are three with disputed age who are in three special emergency accommodations because they cannot be placed with other young people. I acknowledge the work that has been done there by Tusla over the last number of months.”
“Tusla has said that young people are then moved to registered centres as a matter of priority and no later than the next working day. The out-of-hours service follows standard operating procedures in respect of securing an immediate place of safety for unaccompanied minors, and immediately notifies the area manager of a placement the next working day, so that further arrangements for the accommodation of the minor can be made. A risk assessment is completed by Tusla and support is provided to the young person and the care provider for the duration of their short time in the accommodation. Further, I have been informed when hotel accommodation is used in these instances, the young person is accompanied by staff during their stay and is not left alone in hotels.”
“I appreciate the Deputy raising the question. We know that Tusla is facing significant and ongoing challenges in sourcing appropriate placements for children and young people. It is important to recognise that there has been a 500% increase in arrivals of separated children seeking international protection entering the State since 2022, with the vast majority of arrivals aged 16 or 17 years of age. This has significantly impacted on Tusla's ability to provide accommodation and supports to this vulnerable cohort. Tusla has advised that, where there is an unexpected increase in arrivals of unaccompanied minors, its national out-of-hours service may place young people in a hotel setting, in recognition of the immediate need for a place of safety.”
“I acknowledge that, whilst the legislation might be there, the guidelines are absolutely there. It should be a put through to encourage more to apply. In terms of what is happening in other instances, the chief issue arose in terms of the UK but we continue our engagements with all of the diaspora.”
“Going back to the announcement in terms of the UK, I appreciate the point the Deputy raised on legislation. In that respect, we all accept that it takes some time to put legislation in place. In the interim, I particularly welcome, as I have referenced, the proactive step that has been taken in relation to guidelines. I am aware that operational guidance has issued to Department for Work and Pensions staff on pensions, universal credit and housing benefit so that all deciding officers would be absolutely aware and would act in that respect. The Department for Work and Pensions as also issued guidance to local authorities, as they administer the housing benefits. I am hopeful that this will support increased numbers of applications from the United Kingdom.”
“It is my understanding that in the short term, guidance has been issued to all local authorities and all state agencies that might have an investment here so that they would be aware of that. I want to specifically acknowledge the great work of the British MP, Liam Conlon , who I have met and who has done great work in this regard in putting it into the public domain.”
“Specifically on the 6,500 determinations and 5,200 payments, they will all have come at different times. The gap between the two figures is because the applications came at different times and are being processed at different times. However, if a notice of determination has been reached, it has been reached. It is absolutely our desire and intention to get the maximum number of people engaged in the process. I acknowledge the work that has been done in the UK to have a disregard for people in the UK who are applying for benefits in the UK. We had a breakthrough in relation to that recently. The Deputy will be aware that as part of the UK-Ireland summit, the Taoiseach and Prime Minister Starmer announced that a disregard would be put in place.”
“The Department will continue to do all it can to promote and raise awareness of the scheme via a significant public awareness campaign. This is operating on a phased basis in Ireland and in jurisdictions overseas that have a significant Irish diaspora. The first phases across 2024 and 2025 included a mix of press releases, poster placement in public facilities such as libraries, social posts, leaflet distribution, webinars, meetings with representative bodies in Ireland and Britain and paid advertising campaigns. To date, some €1.8 million has been spent on raising awareness of the scheme across the world.”
“As of 12 April 2026, over 7,100 applications had been received, over 6,500 notices of determination had issued to applicants and almost 5,300 payments had been made, totalling over €78 million. Over 2,800 applicants have also qualified for health benefits. All information on the scheme, including how to apply, can be found at the dedicated payment scheme website, which includes a booklet, questions and answers and short how-to videos on the application process. A helpline is also in existence. For clarity, I will give the helpline number, which is 00353 1 522 9992. Overall, we have received positive feedback that applicants are finding the application process straightforward and that the information, helpline and so forth are helpful.”
“The mother and baby institutions payment scheme opened for applications in March 2024. Over its full lifetime, the scheme had been tentatively estimated to benefit up to a maximum of 34,000 people who spent time in mother and baby and county home institutions. The scheme is open for five years, so there is ample time for survivors to apply. It is very important that they are aware of that. I believe they have until March 2029 to apply. It is difficult to predict at what stage across its five-year lifetime applications may materialise, although we do know that in some previous redress schemes, significant numbers of applications were made towards their end or closing dates.”
“The Deputy can be assured, through the city and county childcare committees, that every opportunity will be taken to advertise and promote the State-led and building blocks schemes to make people aware of the opportunities available to support them in the delivery of early learning and childcare.”
“I acknowledge the role of the city and county childcare committees. We are indebted to them for their expertise and the manner in which they provide engagement on the ground with local providers, both private and community. I give them a shout-out because we have 50 engagements taking place right across the country on developing phase 2 of our action plan. Part of the discussion or conversation is around education, particularly early years education. Those on-the-ground consultations are very important and, as I said, they are being facilitated by early learning and childcare committees. On the consultation, we have already had over 11,000 engagements online. There is, therefore, phenomenal interest in the whole area of early learning and childcare.”
“However, the €135 million investment is specifically State led, looking at areas where there is an absence of provision and where no other provider, either private or community run, has stepped in, for whatever reason. It involves the State stepping in proactively. It will be not for profit. The opportunity this year is for the purchase of the building and in 2027-28, we will look at other options as well.”
“I thank Deputy Dempsey very much. I acknowledge her personal engagement with me on all matters related to early years and childcare. I know it is a particular priority for her and her constituents. The Deputy is correct that it is important to look at two schemes. The building blocks scheme has incredible potential to support private providers but also community providers and, indeed, to provide additional places. The previous scheme is seeking to deliver 1,500 additional places and this will be a further addition. The State-led scheme is also an important scheme. As we discussed previously, it is a €135 million investment, with a €10 million investment into the building blocks scheme.”
“All projects will be required to accept a charge on the premises to protect the State's interest in the property and ensure that the capital investment continues to be used for its intended purpose over a long period of time. That is important. The State needs to protect the investment. It is important that if funding is being given to provide additional places, it will be used in the long term for the provision of the additional places, as set out in the building blocks extension scheme phase 2.”
“The aim of the scheme is to tackle undersupply of full-time places, particularly for children aged from one to three years of age. Places for children in other age brackets will also be eligible for funding, once services create at least the minimum number of places in the priority age cohort. The scheme will have two strands, one for extensions to existing premises for community services and another for extensions to existing premises for private services. Community services can avail of investment of up to €530,000 for projects up to a total value of €650,000. Private services can avail of investment of up to €265,000 for projects up to a total value of €650,000, with a minimum of 50% funding to come from the operator. Thresholds from the scheme have been updated since the previous scheme to reflect construction price inflation.”
“As I said earlier, I am pleased to have announced on Tuesday that next phase of the building scheme. It is a €10 million capital funding scheme to deliver a significant number of additional early learning and childcare places. The scheme is being funded under the updated national development plan. The purpose of the building blocks scheme is to deliver additional capacity in the sector by supporting existing early learning and childcare services to undertake physical extensions to existing premises. The scheme will be open to community and private services that are signed up to the core funding scheme and commit to continuing in the scheme and adhering to its conditions, particularly in respect of the fee management rules.”
“Great work is being done by the local city and county childcare committees, and those who are willing to put forward their buildings, thoughts or ideas must first go through the city and county childcare committees and I want to make this clear.”
“To be fair, it is a rolling application and it is still possible to nominate or submit buildings. There will come a point where we will have to say they will be considered in 2027 as opposed to 2026 and I want to be clear on this. At present we are still accepting them. In terms of Kildare, under the previous building blocks scheme two proposals were accepted and funded. I encourage more providers, either in Kildare or anywhere else throughout the country, to take a look at the scheme extension we announced earlier this week as it is a very suitable scheme for many who wish to extend their premises. I also acknowledge the role of local city and county childcare committees. There is a consultation process under way on wider early years and learning in terms of the conversation on education.”
“If we have a building that is ready, it will be about the fit-out of the building or maybe the purchase of the building, and there would have to be a tendering arrangement for a provider to come in and carry out the work.”
“I acknowledge there are three applications in Kildare and they will be adjudicated in due course. The purpose of the State-led system is to step in where there is no provision. The point I was attempting to make on existing providers is that they may well be better suited to the building blocks arrangement. We have just announced a €10 million investment for private powders or community providers in the core funding model who can apply to extend their premises and provide additional places. Some of the applications that have come in might be more suited to this. I acknowledge that in assessing the sites and buildings, they will have to align with the objectives of the programme.”
“Some projects have been proposed by an existing early learning and childcare service provider while others relate to a building or property only and a separate process to identify an operator will be required. Included in the long list are three proposals from County Kildare that have been submitted to the Department. The Department will continue to seek potential projects for consideration. There will be a particular focus in the new State-led facilities on providing places for children aged between one and three, with capacity for these children to continue in the service until they start school, because this is where the need is greatest. The aim of delivering additional supply of this type in suitable locations will include rural areas and urban areas that are not well served at present.”
“The Department has received project proposals from a number of sources since the programme was launched and there are also projects the Department was aware of prior to the programme's launch. In total 82 potential projects across the country have been received as of 17 April. These projects are at very different stages of development and it is also important to acknowledge this. Some relate to existing buildings ready to be occupied and ready to fit out. Others, however, are much longer-term prospects for the future. Not all proposals align with the programme objectives and some may be funded by other means, including the next round of the building blocks scheme or whatever might be more appropriate to the application that has been received.”
“The Deputy will be aware that we recently announced €135 million in capital investment in buildings for high-quality accessible State-led early learning and childcare. The process begins this year, as he said, with investment in buildings in what will be a groundbreaking initiative for the Government. Capital funding will be used to acquire or fit out building, depending on the requirements. Up to eight buildings will be selected for investment this year and the State-led initiative will provide thousands of places to 2030 using the €135 million provided in the national development plan. The level of investment will ramp up over the lifetime of the Government.”
“There will be further consultations, with town hall events and meetings, and further engagement again from mid-May, and this will continue. This is to ensure we have the best possible service in place.”
“I reiterate that the entire purpose here is to ensure that the guardian ad litem service is doing what it should do. I recognise that guardians ad litem are an incredibly powerful resource who are hugely important in presenting the view of the child. This is to strengthen the service and ensure the system works. It is important that the system is regulated and there is absolutely no doubt about that. It is important that access to legal support is there where a case has been made in this regard and there is no question of that. There is no question either about the independence of GALs. We can quote many other bodies that operate under the aegis of the Department. There has been consultation right across the board on the changes that have been brought in.”
“If the guardians are party to a case, are bringing a case or it is a special care application, they will automatically also have legal representation. With regard to their independence, there are many examples of bodies under the aegis of one Department but being entirely independent. I want to be clear that the purpose here is to ensure it is a service that does as it sets out to do and the voice of the child is heard. We are doing all we can to ensure this would be the case.”
“I do not for a single second underestimate the importance of the powerful advocacy of guardians ad litem . They are hugely important. This process is to ensure that they have the appropriate supports, the appropriate regulation and that everything is as it should be. I reiterate that for many years there have been calls to examine this system to see how we can do better and to ensure that the voice of the child is very much at the centre. They are a very powerful resource. I do not take from that in any shape or form. The Deputy raised the legal representation. There has been, and there will be, no question in terms of access to legal representation. Advice will be available at all times and a head of legal has recently been appointed.”
“These consultations will provide current guardians with the opportunity to provide feedback on the appointment procedure, the training and the supervision policy, and the practice of audit procedures under the new national service.”
“Department officials have engaged with key stakeholders including: court services; the Judiciary; AGALI; Empowering People in Care, EPIC; the Irish Foster Care Association, IFCA; the NGOs; the Ombudsman for Children; Tusla; and care experienced young people. As part of the establishment of the national service, the Department hosted two policy consultations in Cork and Dublin to discuss professional standards, complaints and the code of conduct. We also hosted a townhall event with stakeholders, including guardians, in Miesian Plaza in June 2025. The executive office will issue further invitations and consultations online from 11 May.”
“The lack of defined qualifications, role and status, as well as an absence of appointment procedures for the guardians, has been widely acknowledged for many years. The new national service will create a national, professional and highly qualified service that better serves children in the courts. I am aware of the issues that have been raised by the Association of Guardians ad Litem in Ireland, AGALI, in relation to the new GAL national service. I received correspondence from AGALI on 30 January setting out their concerns. I met with their representatives on 24 February. Specific issues raised by them were referred to the Office of the Attorney General.”
“I appreciate the Deputy raising the question and I acknowledge that she has raised it previously. The guardian ad litem , GAL, service is a nationally organised and managed service established to ensure that children's voices are heard and their best interests are independently presented in childcare proceedings by an appointed guardian ad litem . The target is 23 June for commencement of Part 7 of the Child Care (Amendment) Act 2022. The Department is continually working towards this launch date. The commencement of the national service marks a significant transformation of the sector. Children and their best interests are at the centre of the guardian ad litem national service. The need to reform the guardian ad litem rule under the Child Care Act 1991 had been highlighted for many years.”
“I acknowledge as well the UK Government's recent announcement on disregards they will allow when people who are in the UK are being assessed for social welfare benefits in the UK. We want to see more people applying for this scheme. To date, over €1.8 million has been spent on advertising. The Deputy is correct that there will be a review before the end of the year. It is very much meant to be a technical review.”
“I do not at all take away from the individual cases the Deputy referenced. I have to say in sincerity that I am obliged to accept the legal advice presented by the Attorney General and the legal teams. The legal advice that I have received is quite categoric in that it proposes that the decision as it stands would create a number of significant unintended difficulties. That is the clear-cut legal advice. In terms of the scheme in general, more than 7,000 applications have been received and 6,500 notices of determination have been issued. Over €78 million has been paid out. Approximately 2,800 people have qualified for health benefits. The scheme is open for five years until March 2029.”
“In a very detailed and comprehensive judgment, the State's position on a number of relevant matters was agreed with but there was also an indication there had been an error in law in one issue.”
“Specifically, in relation to the case, I acknowledge that the Department of children is responsible for overseeing the administration of the mother and baby institutions payment scheme and it must do so in line with the legislative scope and the intent of the Mother and Baby and Institutions Payment Scheme Act 2023 as enacted by the Oireachtas. There has been considerable consideration of the legal advice that has been rendered. The Deputy is correct in seeking two institutions to be added to the scheme but I am obliged to take the advice of the Attorney General. The advice is unequivocal on the need for an appeal of the High Court and recognising that as a necessity. The reason is the grave degree of uncertainty generated by the judgment in terms of the interpretation of the Act and the related scope and parameters of the scheme.”
“The Birth Information and Tracing Act 2022, which commenced in October 2022, has seen more than 17,700 applications for information completed to date since services opened. The Institutional Burials Act 2022 and the establishment in 2023 of an independent office under the Act led the intervention at the site of the former mother and baby institution at Tuam. The Deputy is aware that work is under way there. There has been the appointment in 2024 of a special advocate for survivors, the provision of counselling services and out of hours counselling for survivors, and the administration of a commemorative grant scheme for survivors who wish to hold events.”
“It should be noted that the payment scheme is just one of a large suite of actions being undertaken to respond to the legacy of these institutions under the action plan for survivors and former residents of mother and baby and county home institutions. The current programme for Government has underlined a continued commitment to its ongoing delivery. Of the seven major commitments set out in the action plan, six are now delivered and in place while the seventh is actually under way. Key initiatives in the plan include access to birth information, the services of a special advocate and counselling support, which are all already in place, as well as the ongoing development of a national centre for research and remembrance.”
“While the 2023 Act lists all of the mother and baby institutions identified by the commission, section 49 of the Act further provides that, if it were to come to light that an institution in which the State had a regulatory or inspection function fulfilled a similar function with regard to single women and their children as those included in the payment scheme, the then Minister, with the consent of the Minister for public expenditure, may insert an additional institution into the schedule. The Government recognises there are people who suffered stigma, trauma and abuse in other institutions.”
“I thank the Deputy. As she will be aware, the mother and baby homes institutions payment scheme provides payments and health benefits to people who spent time in any of the mother and baby, or county home, institutions. These were institutions that were identified by the mother and baby homes commission of investigation as having a main function of providing sheltered and supervised ante- and post-natal facilities to single mothers and their children. The institutions covered by the payment scheme are set out in Schedule 1 of the Mother and Baby Institutions Payment Scheme Act 2023. Chapter 2 of the social history section of the commission of investigation detailed the different types of institutions that existed and whether they could be considered mother and baby institutions.”
“We know, in times of crisis, that there is a need for a stable and secure Government that will deliver not one but two, three, four and five budgets in line with its democratic mandate from the people. This Government is providing supports to cushion the inflationary blow insofar as is possible within the limits of responsible management of the public finances, always mindful of the unpredictable and volatile nature of global affairs, which could lead to further economic shocks at any time in the future. Mar a deirimid, ní hé lá na gaoithe, lá na scolb. In these challenging times, responsible, stable and measured government is what is required. This Government is delivering just that. For that reason, I will support the motion of confidence this afternoon.”
“This is a time of global uncertainty. It is a time of great difficulty and anxiety for all of society. I am more than conscious of the impact that a series of geopolitical shocks have had on people's earnings and their spending power. Inflation hurts everyone. Each crisis - Brexit, Covid-19, Ukraine, Gaza, US trade tariffs and the military action by Israel and the United States against Iran - has had a damaging impact on the price of everyday items, ranging from the weekly shop to clothing prices to topping up at the fuel pump. Tá a fhios againn, áfach, in aimsir na géarchéime, go bhfuil gá le Rialtas daingean agus slán sábháilte a chuirfidh ar fáil, ní buiséad amháin ach dhá, trí, ceithre agus cúig bhuiséad de réir a mhandáid dhaonlathach ón bpobal.”
“In addition, it is envisaged physical presences will be developed elsewhere, including in conjunction with some local museums, to enable survivors to visit more easily. I fully acknowledge the trauma that must come with not knowing the burial location of one’s family members. I acknowledge that the application to build on lands at Bessborough, and the granting of planning permission for that application, has reawakened much of that trauma. I would like to express my sincere understanding of how difficult this has been for mothers who stayed in Bessborough and for the children who were born there.”
“An application for planning permission was submitted in November 2024, and planning permission was granted by Dublin City Council in February 2025. Enabling works are under way at the site and main works are expected to commence later this year. Survivor members were recently appointed to the steering group that is driving the overall co-ordinated development of the national centre campus. In addition to survivors, the steering group membership includes the special advocate for survivors and representatives of the relevant State bodies. While physically situated in Dublin, the national centre will be accessible for all survivors and affected persons in other parts of Ireland and abroad. This will be made possible through the provision of digital access to some records and exhibits.”
“The national centre will stand as part of our national institutions and will comprise a museum and exhibition space, the development of which will be led by the National Museum of Ireland, a research centre and repository of records related to institutional trauma in the 20th century, which will form part of the National Archives, and a garden space for reflection and remembrance. There has been significant progress on the development of the centre. In July 2023, the Government approved the master plan for the national centre campus and the preliminary business case for the main national centre buildings. In March 2024, the Government approved further key project documents, including the preliminary business case for the full national centre campus.”
“In March 2022, the Government approved high-level proposals for a national centre for research and remembrance to be located on Sean MacDermott Street in Dublin. It will stand as a site of conscience to honour equally all those who spent time in industrial schools, Magdalen laundries, mother and baby and county home institutions, reformatories and related institutions, and all those who have lived experience of lreland’s historical adoption and boarded-out systems.”
“The profound importance of both local and national memorialisation is clear from engagements with survivors and former residents. The Government's action plan contains commitments relating to dignified local memorialisation of known or agreed burial sites. The Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage established a working group of departmental and local authority officials to advance the commitment to local memorialisation. Officials in the relevant Departments will work together with a view to bringing forward proposals to support inclusive, survivor-led local memorialisation. Another key commitment in the Government’s action plan is the development of a national memorial and records centre.”
“I note that in the permission that was recently granted, Cork City Council has attached a number of conditions, including requirements to have a forensic archaeological monitoring strategy and a forensic archaeologist in place to monitor excavation at the site every single day. It is also specified that if human remains are located, all work on site should cease and relevant authorities should be informed. Forensic archaeologists are professionals who work on the recovery of human remains, including in the context of modern crime scene investigations. It is important to state here that if the development commences and remains are uncovered during excavation for building purposes at the Bessborough site, it may then be appropriate for those remains to be excavated under the provisions of the Institutional Burials Act 2022.”