Norma Foley
Kerry · Fianna Fáil · Ireland
“Therefore, the means by which the motion proposes to address the challenges raised may not specifically align with the approach being taken, but I absolutely accept that the underlying goals are the same and I accept the Deputies' sincerity in seeking to achieve them.”
“I intend to bring forward specific proposals arising from this work towards the end of the year, depending on progress and the outcome of ongoing engagement with stakeholders.”
“Working with that office, the Department of Children, Disability and Equality is absolutely committed to seeking to expand and reform specialist disability services in order to maximise individuals’ independence and support them to live lives of their choosing in places of their choosing.”
“A number of new measures are in train to move towards planned provision of residential supports, including the provision of planned residential placements under a new initiative, as outlined in the HSE’s 2026 national service plan.”
“I absolutely accept they are fighting tirelessly to highlight the need for us to ensure their loved ones are cared for and provided with appropriate housing, as and when it is needed. For far too many families, placements are made at the last minute, causing distress to individuals and their families.”
“In line with commitments contained in the programme for Government and the national human rights strategy, the Department of Children, Disability and Equality is now developing a new vision and reform strategy for disability services.”
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“In making a decision to direct the establishment of an Office of the Director of Authorised Intervention, the Government has to be able to balance the need to intervene with the need to respect the sanctity of burials and consider the overall public interest. An amendment to provide for speculative interventions at sites where manifestly inappropriate burials have not been identified, even following investigation by a commission of inquiry, raises potential legal and constitutional issues in regard to proportionality and public necessity as well as property rights. A particular concern is the Bill’s provision for interventions at sites where burials are "reasonably likely to have taken place", as distinct from the current approach where Government must be satisfied that burials have taken place.”
“The Bill would provide for speculative as opposed to evidential interventions at sites, including at sites that have already been subject to extensive investigations by the commission. It would require consensus from relatives in regard to an intervention being undertaken where we are aware that there are very differing views, for differing reasons, among family members about how particular sites should be treated. It would remove the power of the Government to not intervene where there are substantive reasons memorialisation of a site would be more appropriate. In some instances, for some family members memorialisation is their preferred option. Excavation and recovery of remains is an extensive, complex and sensitive intervention.”
“I will elaborate on this point later. In response to the situation in Tuam, the Government decided that forensic standard excavation, recovery, identification and respectful reinternment of the remains should be carried out to afford dignity to the children who had been denied it for so long. The Government was advised that there was no legal basis to implement its decision and, therefore, the Institutional Burials Act was developed to address this specific legislative gap. The reason that the Act is not specific to Tuam is to avoid the need for additional new legislation if similarly abhorrent burials were to be discovered in the future. I understand that the amendment Bill was drafted in good faith. However, I have a number of concerns regarding its provisions as it would fundamentally change the purpose and scope of the 2022 Act.”
“I will explain the reasons behind the Government's decision. The Commission of Investigation into Mother and Baby Homes and Certain Related Matters was established in 2015 to investigate and report on a range of issues associated with mother and baby institutions, including burial practices. It had wide-ranging powers and conducted extensive inquiries, searches and test excavations at institutional sites in an effort to locate the burial places of children. Through this work, the commission was able to confirm the presence of children’s remains at the site of the former institution in Tuam that were interred in a repugnant manner. Despite extensive efforts, the commission was unable to identify a burial location at Bessborough and did not identify similarly abhorrent burials at the other institutions it investigated.”
“I thank Senators for the opportunity to speak today and respond to the Bill to amend the Act tabled by Senator Ruane and her colleagues. I acknowledge the work the Senators have done in supporting and highlighting important issues of concern to survivors and former residents of institutions, as well as their family members. The legacy of Ireland’s institutional past is a deeply sad one that has a real and lasting impact. One of the most tragic aspects is the continuing uncertainty regarding the burial places of many children who died while they were resident in institutions. I thank Senators Ruane and Higgins for meeting me earlier this week to discuss their amending Bill. I accept their motivation in bringing it forward and I hope the Senators can accept my bona fides in declining a Second Reading of the Bill.”
“It would, therefore, provide for speculative interventions, as opposed to evidential interventions, as is the case under the current Act, at numerous large sites. This could not be considered proportionate or in the public interest, particularly where manifestly inappropriate burials have not been identified. The Bill requires the consensus of family members by providing for presumed relatives to indicate that the making of an order is their preference. While engagement with families is paramount and is provided for in the Institutional Burials Act, we know that this is a deeply sensitive and personal issue, as referenced by many speakers in the debate and, therefore, it is difficult to see how consensus across all families could be achieved as there is presently and understandably a significant divergence of opinions.”
“Our reasons include that it would create an unclear basis for an intervention by providing for circumstances where burials are reasonably likely to have taken place and for evidence of such burials to include missing burial records, records that indicate an unusually high death rate at an institution and records that indicate the presence of manifestly inappropriate burial sites. In this regard, it is noted that the Institutional Burials Act is very wide-ranging in its definition of "institution" and already allows for interventions where evidence and records indicate the presence of manifestly inappropriate burials. It should also be noted there was no legal obligation on private burial grounds to keep a register of burials and high mortality rates could sadly sometimes be a feature of historical congregated settings.”
“Gabhaim buíochas leis an tSeanaid as ucht an deis seo a thabhairt dom. I am very pleased to have the opportunity to address the House. I welcome all those in the Public Gallery. I note that Senator Murphy O'Mahony has moved amendment No. 1, which is to delete all words after “That” and substitute text stating Seanad Éireann declines to give a Second Reading to the Institutional Burials (Amendment) Bill 2022 for various reasons listed in the amendment. Senator Boyhan should note it is actually a reasoned amendment. I am taking the opportunity to explain why we are adopting our particular point of view. That is important. It is not a simple or hard "No"; rather, we are taking a reasoned approach to explain the difference of opinion that we have on what has been proposed.”
“However, we cannot shy away from the fact that there are still some children in our society who remain at risk. As a State and a society, we must continue to do everything in our power to protect and support all children, especially those who are most vulnerable. I conclude by again saluting the courage of Maurice Patton O’Connell, Miriam Moriarty Owens, Mary Dunlevy Greene and Mary Donovan. To them, we say thank you.”
“From speaking with survivors, I know many worried that they may have a criminal record just by virtue of having been in an industrial school or a reformatory school. The Taoiseach and the Minister for justice have restated the official position that no such criminal record exists. This reassurance is important for survivors, and I welcome it. Today is a day when the State rightly says sorry for the failings of the past. Every day, we must work with dedication and determination to ensure those past failures are not repeated in the present and into the future. There has been huge reform of our child welfare and protection system over past decades. There are vetting procedures and avenues of support in place that did not exist in the past.”
“On that note, I do not believe we should ever underestimate the determination of Miriam, Maurice and the two Marys and their absolute commitment to achieve today's success, not just for themselves but for all the others who experienced what they experienced, lived what they lived and live what they live today. From the outset, I was struck by that sense of solidarity and generosity that drove Miriam, Mary, Maurice and Mary on. I think all in this House thank them for that. I welcome the apology the Taoiseach has made in the Dáil to survivors of institutional abuse and those who suffered abuse while they were boarded out. This apology builds on the 1999 apology to victims of institutional abuse and aspects of the 2021 apology to survivors of mother and baby homes.”
“I have met with Miriam Moriarty Owens, Mary Dunlevy Greene, Mary Donovan and Maurice Patton O’Connell on a number of occasions, including during their time outside Leinster House, and I am truly conscious of the trauma they and other survivors have endured and continue to endure. As they are aware, the issues were raised directly with an Taoiseach and the Minister for education. I welcome the fact that mediation talks coupled with the genuine personal commitment of an Taoiseach, Deputy Micheál Martin, and, most especially, the determination and courage of the group of four survivors paved the way for today's outcome.”
“Today is an important moment in facing up to a traumatic time in our history. This State was established with the intention of moving away from the cruel and harsh regime that vulnerable children experienced in workhouses. However, after independence many of these vulnerable children remained in the workhouses, which were renamed as county homes. Others were put into orphanages, industrial schools and reformatory schools or boarded out to families. Successive tribunals and commissions of investigation have established that many of the children did not get the love, care and security they deserved. Worse again, many experienced severe abuse. This legacy of abuse and neglect of children has caused deep trauma, which is still with survivors today.”
“I want to be clear, in terms of the financial resources being made available, that €26 million has been provided for special care, with an increase of €6 million specifically in terms of the provision of beds. The financial resources are in place for staffing. There is an absolute challenge in staffing which is not unique to us. It has already been referenced that it is in other disciplines as well. There are new programmes. I outlined to the previous Deputy the types of the increases in places, in-house training for staff so they can step up into special care roles, and recruitment from abroad. There is a whole suite of efforts being made. It is an absolute priority. There is an absolute commitment that all of those recommendations for any Department or agency will be addressed and implemented in full.”
“There have been significant improvements, such as the new pay grade with a 20% increase. It has yielded 27 additional people being recruited. Significant recruitment is taking place abroad in South Africa and the Philippines which is also garnering success. The work continues.”
“The Deputy attended the briefing with me provided by the Minister of State, Deputy Butler, on the north Kerry CAMHS report. He will appreciate that it is not in my remit; it is within the remit of Deputy Butler. It is my understanding that she will make further announcements as regards the extension of the look-back and issues around compensation. The Deputy will respect that it is appropriate that she as the line Minister of State does that. On the points raised by Deputy Kerrane, there are so many complexities in this instance. As I previously referenced with Deputy Ó Murchú, there is one instance where 14 staff are required for the care of one child. It is right that we provide those 14 staff but in normal instances that is two beds being required, such are the complexities.”
“In addition, €26 million has been allocated for special care in budget 2026. This represents an increase of over €6 million on budget 2025. This investment will increase capacity and enhance provision, including funding for the new special care staff grade, staff well-being initiatives and additional therapeutic supports. Tusla has been allocated €188 million in capital funding for 2026 to 2030. Reflecting the priorities in the national development plan, €17 million is the indicative allocation for special care in Tusla’s capital plan for 2026 to 2030. This will support Tusla in upgrading, renovating or purchasing special care and step-down units. In this context, the expansion of dedicated step-down provision from special care is progressing.”
“Tusla has indicated that difficulties in the recruitment and retention of staff are the primary limiting factor in capacity in opening special care beds. Officials from the Department continue to work with Tusla to support it in addressing the staffing shortages in special care provision. A new grade and pay scale for special care was sanctioned in 2024 in an effort to increase staff numbers and has been advertised since January 2025. This new Tusla special care worker grade offers approximately 20% higher pay at the top of scale compared to the social care worker grade. The Department has also provided a substantial budget increase for Tusla in 2026, rising by 14% to €1.37 billion. This represents the fourth consecutive year in which Tusla’s budget has exceeded €1 billion.”
“I thank the Deputy for her question. While the operation of special care and the provision of special care beds is the statutory responsibility of Tusla, the Department is actively engaging with Tusla in relation to the challenges impacting special care. There are four young people currently subject to a special care order who are awaiting placement in a special care unit. I am advised by Tusla that as of 16 February 2026 there are 15 young people in special care, with additional staffing of 2:1 required for at least one young person due to complex presentation. This means an additional seven staff, or 14 in total, are required to meet the needs of that one child. This is the equivalent of an additional special care bed.”
“I am a particular fan of the apprenticeship model, for example, because it means those who go through the apprenticeship system stay within the Tusla family, as it were. That proves significant.”
“We are all very clear about the importance of having the appropriate staff and of having a sufficiency of staff in place to support children. I can share with the Deputy examples of cases that are so complex they require a 2:1 staffing level. That means 14 staff being made available for the care of one child. That is the right and proper thing to do and that is what I would want to have in place. I am just making the point that such are the complexities that, at times, a huge number of staff have to be dedicated - and rightly so - to one child. In some instances, 14 staff for one child is the required staffing level. Notwithstanding that, the Deputy speaks of a plan and I am very happy to send on a formal reply in terms of all of the different levers that we are pulling.”
“It is projected that there will be a 20% increase year on year in terms of these schemes. I particularly want to congratulate the further and higher education sector for initiatives in this area. The link between Cork ETB and UCC, for example, is producing a significant number of social workers for us.”
“In terms of foster care, we have had a very good discussion on the role and importance of foster carers and the contribution they make in terms of child welfare. I can inform the Deputy that 198 new foster carers came on stream in 2025, a 9% increase. Notwithstanding that, I want to do more in this space. I also recognise the demand for foster carers is increasing. We have a number of new children coming into the system every single year and it is ever increasing. However, it is positive to be able to say that 198 new people came on board, a 9% increase over the same period in 2024. That is a positive. I absolutely hear what the Deputy is saying in terms of the need for an increased number of social workers and social care workers. It is important we have the mechanisms that will allow for that.”
“The Department funds and supports Tusla’s recruitment and retention of social care workers through various Tusla initiatives and programmes. This includes a number of measures. Tusla offers incentives to existing staff to undertake training to become social care workers. Tusla offers a relocation and visa sponsorship package for social care staff from the Philippines and South Africa to take up contracts within Tusla special care. Tusla is in the process of developing a new internal training school to support social care candidates to develop the skills necessary to work in Tusla’s residential and special care centres. Tusla is also in the process of developing a new internal training school to support social care candidates to develop the skills necessary to work in Tusla's residential and special care centres.”
“New programmes are expected to increase the number of annual social work graduates by 20%. That is a significant uplift, year on year, in the number of those who graduate specifically from social work and social care programmes. The initiatives being taken by Tusla include: the introduction of a four-year tertiary degree, co-designed and co-delivered by Cork Education and Training Board and University College Cork; and the establishment of a two-year apprenticeship programme leading to a master’s or postgraduate diploma in social work, developed by an industry-led consortium. Tusla accepted 36 apprentices under the scheme in 2024 and took on a further 77 apprentices in 2025, with further expansion in 2026. I would like to see that move closer to 100 in 2026, if at all possible, but we will see how it goes.”
“I appreciate that the Deputy is raising a significant issue about the important work that is carried out every day by social workers, social care workers and foster carers. With the prevailing high rates of employment and the range of opportunities across the economy, there is a great deal of competition for and challenge in attracting qualified and expert staff to carry out social work in the health, education and justice sectors, as well as in the area of child welfare and protection. The challenges in child welfare and protection are not unique and they apply right across sectors like health, education and justice. Notwithstanding that, we have to address this. The Department has supported the development of various schemes and programmes in Tusla to improve its recruitment and retention of social workers and social care workers.”
“We are all agreed here on the importance of the auto-enrolment system but that must be catered for in the context of an employer-employee relationship. Tusla is not the employer. In regard to the broader funding being provided by Tusla, there has been a significant increase in funding by my Department to Tusla to increase the provision of services which, again, supports these organisations. That is the type of relationship that exists.”
“I want to be clear. I do not for one minute disagree with the points the Deputy made about the valuable work of these organisations. They are an integral service to communities and I understand the importance of that. I have to be clear: in the delivery of that work they are funded by Tusla. They are not employed by Tusla. There is a separate relationship in existence there between the employer and the employee, or whatever type of contract is in existence there. These organisations are entirely independent entities responsible for the care of their own staff or whoever is delivering on their behalf. It is important that we recognise that. There are obligations in terms of auto-enrolment. It is very important.”
“The relationship is between the organisation and the employee, that is, as employer and employee. Tusla is not in that space and it is important that we have clarity around that.”
“I want to second and indeed third what the Deputy had to say there about these organisations. They are really important organisations doing sterling work right across our communities, north, south, east and west. The work they do, and the breadth of it, is quite phenomenal. They are very much rooted in community and service to the community. I do not for one minute dispute that but I have to be clear on the funding mechanism. Tusla provides funding to many of these organisations, some of which the Deputy has referenced. In many respects, Tusla is providing part of their funding. They are funded through other means as well. Essentially, the issue here is that all of these organisations the Deputy referenced are independent entities. Tusla is not the employer.”
“These organisations receive a portion of their funding from Tusla to deliver services and generally have other income streams. Funding is provided to these organisations by Tusla through the grant process and the level of service provided is generally covered within the terms of a service level agreement. These organisations are independent entities and, as such, employment contracts and obligations - for example, auto-enrolment, pay, pensions and all of that - are matters between the employer and their employees. As these staff are not public sector employees, responsibility for meeting obligations under the new auto-enrolment scheme rests entirely with their respective employers.”
“The auto-enrolment retirement savings authority will have responsibility for employer compliance, with Revenue providing support by supplying payroll data for identification and enrolment purposes. All employers are required to comply with the legislation underpinning MyFutureFund, regardless of their status or funding arrangements. This requirement applies equally to employers, including where employees are on short-term contracts or working multiple part-time jobs. MyFutureFund will be central to helping people increase their financial security in their retirement years. Agencies, organisations and charities that will be covered by the new auto-enrolment scheme are generally funded under section 56 of the Child and Family Agency Act 2013.”
“I appreciate the Deputy raising this important question. I deeply appreciate the work performed by section 56 organisations and I would like to thank their staff and volunteers for the commitment and support they are giving in improving people’s lives. The Department welcomes the auto-enrolment retirement savings scheme launched in January 2026. The auto-enrolment system provides that all employees earning in excess of €20,000 and aged between 23 and 60 will be enrolled onto a new pension system and will not have to rely on the State pension alone on retirement. As such, it is of considerable benefit to many employees in section 56 organisations.”
“People with disabilities being at the centre, in terms of raising issues and the implementation of policies, is the entirety of the national human rights strategy for disabled people. There is the implementation group that sits on different committees and the delivery committee is chaired by An Taoiseach, Deputy Micheál Martin.”
“Gabhaim buíochas leis an Teachta. Aontaím leis ó thaobh an sárobair a rinne Finian McGrath le linn a thréimhse anseo mar Aire Stáit agus an méid atá fós ar siúl aige chun na ceisteanna seo a fhreagairt. In relation to the issues the Deputy raised regarding St. Michael's House and so many others, I want to recognise the sterling work of all the institutions the Deputy mentioned. I have met with representatives of many of them. I had a meeting last year with a group representing all of the organisations regarding funding issues that they faced. It was for that reason that we really pushed ourselves to move forward in terms of a budget that would significantly support all of these different organisations that are doing great work on the ground.”
“I appreciate the points Deputy Ó Murchú raised around the assessment of need. He knows that there work is under way to advance the assessment and to streamline the service to make it more accessible to people. There is also the single point of contact and the HSE's autism protocol. A total of 45% of all cases in the first nine months of last year had an autism diagnosis. This separate pathway under the HSE will be helpful as well.”
“Ar an gcéad dul síos, tá sé mar aidhm agam féin agus ag an Roinn áiseanna agus seirbhísí a chur chun cinn, agus tá níos mó airgid againn inniu ná mar a bhí riamh chun é sin a dhéanamh. The primary aim and objective of this Government and this Department is to ensure that we have the funding in place. We have a significant increase in funding this year - greater than we have ever had - to provide the services Deputy Heneghan referenced. I do not know the specifics of the case he referenced here as it is an individual case, but I am happy to take the details from him later and to revert to him. We have €3.8 billion available to us now, which is a €1.8 billion increase since 2020. It will not solve all of the issues; money does not always solve the issues. It is a combination of different things.”
“Targeted amendments to Part 2 of the Disability Act have been developed to improve the effectiveness and efficiency of the assessment of need process. This will result in a more streamlined process, which over time will help to reduce waiting times for assessment of need. A total of €20 million was also allocated under budget 2026 to continue the targeted wait list initiative.”
“While it is important to mention that good progress has been made, it is equally important to acknowledge that there are delays accessing supports and services. I am pleased to say, however, that significant activities are under way, both legislative and operational, to improve access to both assessments and therapies for children who need them. The HSE is developing a single point of access referral model, which will ensure that children are referred to the appropriate healthcare service, whether that is primary care, disability or child and adolescent mental health services, at an early stage. As a result, children will not be put on multiple waiting lists or passed from one service to another.”
“To this end, the HSE is developing the 2026 to 2027 service improvement plan for disability services for children and young people, further advancing the work begun under the roadmap. In budget 2026 alone, more than €3.8 billion was allocated for disability services, which represents an overall increase of €1.8 billion since 2020. This is a phenomenal first-time level of investment by Government. The Government has provided funding for additional posts to CDNTs and to shorten waiting lists and waiting times in recent years. This includes further investment in budget 2026 to fund 150 posts for CDNTs. In addition, placements on CDNTs will continue to be expanded alongside the continued expansion in the number of places in higher education to develop the pipeline of future therapists.”
“Like the Deputy, the Government and I recognise the importance of early intervention for children with disabilities and ensuring they receive the right services at the right time. That is the bottom line. I am pleased to say that progress has been made in this regard. Over the past few years, the roadmap for service improvement has provided for a series of actions being progressed to improve access to children's disability network teams, CDNTs. These teams provided support to 44,739 children with complex needs as at the end of December 2025. The national CDNT waiting list has reduced by 43%. However, I also recognise that there is still more to do. The HSE national service plan has committed to a further 25% reduction in 2026.”
“It is in the programme for Government. There are always complexities of which we must be mindful but as as a core objective, I absolutely agree with the points made by the Deputy.”
“The Deputy and I are not in disagreement on this. I have always been very clear that the work and service provided by foster carers is second to none. I have also been very clear that it is the optimal option for children who need security and support. In that respect, my Department is doing all it can to ensure that measures are in. I have already referenced the increases in the allowances and mileage. To be honest, it will never be enough to acknowledge the work that is done. I know this is the key issue for foster carers, so we will continue to engage with the Department of Social Protection. The current consultation is really helpful to us because it will inform alternative care policy. I acknowledge the openness of the Minister for Social Protection to engaging with me and he has discussed the issue with me on a number of occasions.”
“Foster carers now receive a weekly payment of €400 for children under 12 and €425 for children over 12. A revised mileage payment scheme is in place, while the cumulative weekly travel distance to qualify for these payments has been reduced from 300 km to 250 km. In June 2025, the Department introduced the back-to-school clothing and footwear allowance, while Tusla funding of €152 million will be used to maintain and grow foster care capacity and expand the foster care peer support programme and foster care recruitment teams.”
“There is a commitment in the programme for Government. What is really helpful to us as well is the public consultation we are having. It is a great framework for us to engage with the Department of Social Protection regarding this issue because it is an issue that is consistently raised by foster carers themselves. We need to do all we can to secure the foster carers who are involved in providing care to children but also to attract more into this space. I know it is one of one of the key issues, if not the key issue, for foster carers but I also have to point to other changes that have been introduced. Foster carers now receive additional funds between €3,796 and €3,900 per year compared with the previous allowance, depending on the age of the child.”
“It included increasing the foster care allowance by 21% in 2024, the introduction of the initial placement payment in 2025 and the announcement by the Department of Social Protection that foster carers are now eligible for the back-to-school footwear and clothing allowance, also in June 2025.”
“Officials of the Department are developing the framework on the basis of evidence and robust consultation with stakeholders, care-experienced individuals and the public. I am informed that the consultation process has already included a number of constructive engagements with foster carers and their representative bodies. My officials and I will continue to listen carefully to what they say, including in relation to eligibility for the State pension and other key matters. I will continue to work closely with the Minister, Deputy Calleary, and other Government colleagues regarding the progression of these programme for Government commitments. Significant work has already occurred in relation to supporting foster carers.”
“I have raised this matter directly with my colleague the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Calleary, and can confirm that subsequent engagement will now occur between the relevant departmental officials. This engagement will occur in accordance with my ongoing commitment to support foster carers and within the context of the related programme for Government commitments, which I have already outlined. Work is under way within the Department on the development of a national policy framework for alternative care, which will deliver on a separate programme for Government commitment to develop a national plan on alternative care. It is in this context that we are also engaging with the Minister.”
“I have discussed this with the Deputy on a number of occasions and we are absolutely agreed on the importance of foster carers. There is appreciation of and agreement on that across the House. Foster carers play a vital role in enabling our most vulnerable children to live in a safe, secure and stable home environment. While eligibility for the State pension, as the Deputy said, is a matter for the Minister for Social Protection, I know this is a matter of genuine concern for foster carers. The programme for Government 2025 introduced a number of commitments relating to foster care. This included commitments to examine and develop a pension solution for foster carers in recognition of the enormous contribution they make to vulnerable children in our society.”
“I thank the Deputy. As for how we are progressing, the first port of call is the local childcare committee, and we ask people to engage there. It can then engage further with the Department. I do not at all take away from the case the Deputy is making. We are very conscious of the costs of childcare. The premise of core funding is where fees were frozen. In return for that, operators were given core funding. The national childcare scheme is supporting parents by providing reduced costs but, again, more work needs to be done. The Deputy knows we have a target of €250 per week to be achieved by the end of this Government term. We are working on that. We have increased core funding year on year. The national childcare scheme is available to parents. We also introduced fee caps last year and we will be doing likewise this year.”