Norma Foley
Kerry · Fianna Fáil · Ireland
“Therefore, the means by which the motion proposes to address the challenges raised may not specifically align with the approach being taken, but I absolutely accept that the underlying goals are the same and I accept the Deputies' sincerity in seeking to achieve them.”
“I intend to bring forward specific proposals arising from this work towards the end of the year, depending on progress and the outcome of ongoing engagement with stakeholders.”
“Working with that office, the Department of Children, Disability and Equality is absolutely committed to seeking to expand and reform specialist disability services in order to maximise individuals’ independence and support them to live lives of their choosing in places of their choosing.”
“A number of new measures are in train to move towards planned provision of residential supports, including the provision of planned residential placements under a new initiative, as outlined in the HSE’s 2026 national service plan.”
“I absolutely accept they are fighting tirelessly to highlight the need for us to ensure their loved ones are cared for and provided with appropriate housing, as and when it is needed. For far too many families, placements are made at the last minute, causing distress to individuals and their families.”
“In line with commitments contained in the programme for Government and the national human rights strategy, the Department of Children, Disability and Equality is now developing a new vision and reform strategy for disability services.”
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“However, in 2026, the emphasis will be on purchasing or fitting out a building. All areas will be considered. Eight is eight, but we will be hoping to grow that in the coming years.”
“I appreciate the case the Deputy makes. The purpose here is, in the first instance, to acknowledge that there is excellent provision by private providers and community providers. Notwithstanding that, there are still areas where there is an absence of provision. The purpose of the State-led services is to complement what is already there and to step in proactively where there is not provision. I hear the case the Deputy makes for his constituency. There is a capital steering group in place in the Department. The Department is assessing sites and buildings and, where required, will seek expressions of interest from operators to deliver these State-led services. The emphasis for 2026 is on the purchase of buildings but we also have provision for some instances where we will build.”
“The aim of delivering additional supply of this type in suitable locations will include both rural and urban areas that are presently not well served. Additional supply in areas of disadvantage is another priority because early learning can have positive impacts on children at risk of disadvantage. Another factor to consider is the need to rebalance supply in some areas where there is a high concentration of private supply but very low levels of community childcare. A suite of appraisal tools has been developed, including a forward planning model, in order to select projects that align with these objectives. Up to eight buildings will be selected for investment this year and the State-led initiative will provide thousands of places up to 2030 using the €135 million provided for in the national development plan.”
“I recently announced €135 million in capital investment in buildings for high-quality, accessible State-led early learning and childcare, which I know is the Deputy's key issue. The process will begin in 2026 with investment in buildings in what will be a ground-breaking initiative for this Government - never before done by Government, actually. Capital funding will be used to acquire and fit out buildings. This is a case of "and-or", in fact, because in some instances it might just be the fit-out of the building, depending on requirements. There will be a particular focus in the new State-led facilities on providing places for children between one and three years old, because this is where the need is greatest, with scope for these children to progress in the service until they start school.”
“I appreciate the Deputy raising this. It is an issue of huge interest right across the country, including in his constituency. Improving access to quality and affordable early learning and childcare is a key priority for the Government. Early learning and childcare capacity is increasing. Data from the annual early years sector profile shows that the estimated number of enrolments increased by 25% over the past three years. That is quite a significant increase. However, it appears that demand for early learning and childcare remains higher than available supply in certain parts of the country, particularly for younger children. That is the real issue, that there are certain areas across the country where there is a dearth of provision.”
“It was important that something would issue to the general public as well because the general public are interested too. We will continue to support Tusla in the work it does. The chair is independent. I respect that independence and am happy for her to proceed as she deems necessary.”
“I assure the Deputy that I am confident that learnings will come out of this, particularly cross-departmental, almost like eyes on a child and knowing where a child is at a given time, to support the child, in the best interests of the child. Some €3.2 million has been made available to support the work of this well-being check project. I have been receiving regular updates on the work of the steering group from the chair. The Deputy will be aware also of the press release that issued, I think, last week, which provided the public with details. I appreciate that Ms Ward and the team made themselves available to the Deputy as well because it is very important that here within the House there is an understanding of what is happening with the project.”
“I absolutely assure the Deputy, if we can find the legal mechanism to do this, we will do it. I think it would be in the best interests of everyone. The Attorney General is working on that.”
“I absolutely accept the Deputy's bona fides in relation to this as well. As I said previously in relation to other matters, we want the best outcome here. We want to be very sure and assured of the young people whose cases were closed. There is a specific issue around those who "aged out", to use that phrase, which I do not like, in terms of the sharing of information from Tusla's point of view. I would be very keen to ensure we would find a means to address that cohort of 18,000. I do not have the legal mechanism at the moment but I will rely on the expert advice of the Attorney General. I have spoken to him. We have engaged with him. That engagement is ongoing. He sees it as a priority as well. I know it is a priority for the chair, Tanya Ward, and the steering group as well.”
“Following internal legal advice within the Department, there is no legal basis for Tusla to conduct a well-being check on a young person over the age of 18. On this basis, 18,000 cases are outside the scope of the project. That is a cause of concern, and I assure the Deputy that I have raised that matter with the Attorney General and sought his advice on it. We will await that advice because I am conscious of that cohort of over-18s.”
“The steering group adopted the project methodology in December, taking into account the rights of the children and families involved in each of these cases. This approach enables the project to check each case against the most up-to-date information available on official registers and prioritise cases of significant or most concern. It ensures that the project operates in an effective but non-invasive or non-intrusive way. Following an initial review carried out by Tusla, it was determined that 76,546 children had referrals closed between 1 March 2020 and 28 February 2022. Approximately 42,000 cases had no new referrals or ongoing engagement with Tusla since the lockdown period. Following this review, approximately 18,000 cases were found to be of children who had since turned 18 years of age and were now deemed to be adults.”
“I appreciate the Deputy raising this as I know it is a hugely important issue to him, the House and the wider community. As he is aware, last September I requested Tusla to conduct a series of well-being checks for children whose cases were closed during the Covid-19 lockdown period. The Tusla well-being project team began its work last October. I am pleased to say that the project is making real progress, thanks to the dedication of the chair and the steering group, staff and colleagues right across Government. The project's steering group comprises Government Departments, key statutory agencies and stakeholders and, importantly, is independently chaired by Tanya Ward, chief executive of the Children's Rights Alliance. I thank her and the steering group for their work.”
“If there is a particularly complex issue or whatever arising, and if the court or the GAL believes that the complexity requires legal representation, that will be provided for. We cannot conflate the issue that they are first and foremost expert witnesses. If there is a change in circumstance and legal representation is required, that will be provided for.”
“I absolutely accept that this is being raised in a genuine way. I 100% accept the Deputy's bona fides and the bona fides of the GALs and everybody else. At the end of the day, everybody wants the best outcome for the child. I have no difficulty with the concerns and the issues being raised. I 100% accept that. The Deputy has made the point that, heretofore, the practice has been that when a GAL required legal representation, they always got it. That is not changing. When a GAL needs representation, in the first instance, they are an expert witness. If that changes, they need to bring an application where legal representation will be required, and legal representation will be provided for.”
“I reiterate that this was signed into law on 19 July 2022. At all times, legal advice will be available to GALs. If there are particular reasons for legal representation, such as its being recommended by the court or the GAL wishing to make an application where a case is particularly complex, it will be provided for. In the main, however, we have to be clear about the role of the GAL. He or she is an expert witness in the court proceedings. That is the bottom line. If, however, a GAL wishes to make an application, legal representation will be provided. It will be provided at all times outside these circumstances. It is interesting to note that until the new legislation was signed into law on 19 July 2022, there was no provision at all for legal representation. Therefore, the current provisions are actually a step forward.”
“There are specific scenarios in which legal representation will be provided to a GAL, namely special care applications and applications under the Mental Health Act. GALs may also make an application to have “such rights as a party”, and legal representation will be provided in these cases. The current measure, as set out in section 26 of the Child Care Act 1991, makes no provision for legal representation for GALs. It is interesting that there has been none whatsoever up to this point.”
“Legal advice will be available to GALs through in-house legal teams or procured legal services. Legal advice will be available to them at all times. The head of legal services unit will have responsibility for ensuring legal advice and representation are provided. Section 35D of the 2022 Act sets out the grounds by which the Minister shall, in the best interest of the child, determine the provision of legal representation. These grounds include the views of the court, the GAL's intention to make an application for legal representation, and the opinion of the GAL in relation to any application made in the court proceedings. In regard to the latter, I refer to where a particular issue is being flagged or raised by the GAL.”
“The Child Care (Amendment) Act 2022, which provides for reform of the GAL system, was signed into law on 19 July 2022. This is a very important consideration. The passing of this legislation enables my Department to establish the GAL national service as an executive office. This executive office of the national service carries out functions on behalf of the Minister. A GAL is a qualified and experienced professional who meets the child, gathers their views and provides an independent report to the judge. GALs are expert witnesses in court. There is no requirement for them to automatically have legal representation in every single case. The GAL national service holds the view, supported by the Attorney General’s office, that the legal advice provided to GALs is legally privileged.”
“Importantly, young people in special emergency accommodation are visited weekly by a social worker or delegated person to have their voices heard and to check on the care being provided.”
“These detail extensive checks that any prospective special emergency accommodation provider must adhere to, including in relation to records management and staff vetting. Tusla has advised that all special emergency accommodation providers should be vetted by the central compliance unit. The unit ensures that Garda vetting and appropriate qualifications are in order before any child is placed with a prospective provider. The unit also carries out spot checks to validate staff on active duty. Tusla uses practice assurance and service monitoring reports to support the provision of high-quality services for children and families. The monitoring extends across Tusla activity, including in respect of special emergency accommodation.”
“Specifically on funding for building, Tusla plans to invest a total of €286 million in expanding mainstream residential care in 2026, representing an additional €53 million in current funding compared with the amount for 2025. The additional €53 million for mainstream residential care will provide for the full-year cost of beds opened part of the way through 2025 and for an additional 30 residential care places, which will bring the number of residential places for children in need to over 800. It is planned that the 30 additional mainstream residential placements will comprise 19 State-run statutory placements and 11 privately owned ones. Specifically on safeguarding procedures, Tusla has developed standard operating procedures for placements.”
“There is an inconsistency in the numbers of children arriving at different times. Tusla remains committed to moving children, as quickly as possible, out of special emergency arrangements and into long-term placements where they can be supported – for example, in the foster care system. I will come back to the other points.”
“As I said, Tusla is working consistently to reduce reliance on SEAs. I know that is the Deputy's wish as much as my own. It is also working to reduce the costs associated with these services and promote the quality and safety of these placements. The Department is supporting Tusla in these efforts and will continue to do so. On the week of 8 February, 84 children and young people were classified as separated children seeking international protection in special emergency accommodation, representing a decrease of four over the previous week and of 35 over four weeks previously. The bulk of the children availing of the service are separated children seeking international protection. Under the current procedures, special emergency arrangements are reviewed regularly and used only when they are the most suitable options available at the time.”
“While Tusla, supported by the Department, is working to reduce reliance on SEAs, the agency is facing significant and ongoing challenges in sourcing appropriate placements for children in the care of the State.”
“We have invested significantly in Tusla to this end. In 2026, Tusla's overall funding was raised to €1.37 billion, an increase of 14% or €177 million compared to 2025, which was itself a year of record investment for Tusla. This increase includes an additional €53 million for mainstream residential care. This additional funding will provide for the full-year costs of residential places opened in 2025, in addition to 30 new residential places over the course of 2026. Tusla’s capital budget has also been expanded to €35 million in 2026, which represents 100% growth since 2024. It is a significant uplift for Tusla in terms of its capital and capacity to build. As I said, it is €35 million, which is 100% growth.”
“I appreciate the Deputy raising the important issue of funding for Tusla's residential care services in which the Government has invested significantly over recent years. Officials in the Department have received the detailed financial information he requested from Tusla and will share it with him in full tabular form. In terms of headline figures, the information provided by Tusla indicates that the total cost for statutory or State-owned children's residential centres in 2025 was €53.5 million. The total cost in respect of privately run centres was just over €131 million, while for special emergency arrangements, SEAs, the total cost was just under €38 million. Both Tusla and I share a common aim to meet the needs of all children in mainstream alternative care placements and to reduce Tusla's operation of SEAs.”
“Through that, there is a lot of engagement with childminders. I would be very happy to engage with them as well through that process.”
“As I said, there is a clear divergence of opinion here between Tailte Éireann and the view of the Department. We would absolutely be supportive of any measure that would bring clarity. Legislation, as referenced by the Deputy, does not fall within the remit of our Department but if that is the necessary step, it is the necessary step. We are doing all we can to support childminders, particularly to come into the registration process. There are dedicated individuals in every city and county childcare committee specifically designated to work with childminders. We want them to be part to the process and to have every opportunity to benefit from being part of the process. There is currently a pilot with childminders in receipt of core funding by a grant or whatever, and a consultation process as regards the wider childcare elements.”
“The Department has previously received confirmation from the Department of housing, including at ministerial level, that the intention and practice was for the exemptions provided for in both the original and revised Acts to operate in tandem. I will also be clear in saying that is not the view of Tailte Éireann. I have to respect its independence and that it has a different view, but we are seeking to do the best we can, from all avenues open to us, to ensure clarity is brought to this.”
“I know the Deputy has been very engaged and active on this issue. I cannot underestimate, as I deal with it all the time, and the Deputy outlined this too, how this is causing incredible distress for so many who are an excellent source of support to families on the ground. I want to be clear. It has been the understanding of my Department that there are two exemptions for early learning and childcare services provided for under Schedule 4 of the Valuation Act 2001 and the 2015 amendment to the Act. ECCE-only services, whether these are for profit or are not-for-profit, are exempt under paragraph 10 of the 2001 Act, and not-for-profit early years services are exempt under paragraph 22 of the amended Act.”
“My understanding is that childminders are only likely to be charged rates if they have space dedicated solely to their childminding business, and that the large majority of childminders who use the normal family rooms in the house for childminding are therefore unlikely to be charged rates. Again, we would like to absolutely clarify this understanding and issue a clear message to childminders. I appreciate the enormous concern and stress this is causing on the ground. I assure the Deputy, although this does not fall within our remit and I am very conscious it is a matter for Tailte Éireann, which I appreciate is independent of the Department of housing, we want to bring this to an end. I know there is not consistency across local authorities either in relation to the matter. That is something that needs to be addressed too.”
“It should be noted that commercial rates payments for early learning and childcare providers, including childminders, do not fall, as the Deputy will appreciate, within the remit of the Department of Children, Disability and Equality. The Department has no role in determining which properties are rateable. The making of valuations for rating purposes is the sole and full responsibility of Tailte Éireann, formerly the Commissioner of Valuation. Tailte Éireann falls under the aegis of the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage. Further to this, as I stated previously, I believe childminders should not have their homes assessed for commercial rates.”
“I confirm that I am aware that a number of early years services and childminders have been receiving rates payable notifications from their local authorities. Given the importance of early learning and childcare for children, families and communities across the country, I am giving this matter my full attention. I have met with my Cabinet colleague, the Minister, Deputy Browne, on this matter. Additionally, officials in the Department are engaging with their colleagues in the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage and Tailte Éireann. I am committed to furnishing the Deputy with an update once the Department has clarity on this matter.”
“However, there is work to be done to ensure that the intention of the Bill, which is a good intention, and I respect that, is executed to provide the fullest support to those who need it.”
“The Government fully understands that parents who experience a bereavement require support, compassion and the time and space necessary to process their grief. While providing such a postponement is one way of offering support, there are broader considerations around how the workplace and the Government can respond to the needs of a grieving parent. The postponement or leave alone, without additional supports, may not always meet the needs of an individual parent in such circumstances. Again, my thoughts are with every person who has been affected by the death of a child and especially those who are on maternity leave. My officials and I are willing to work with the Senator on this issue, address the concerns that I have highlighted within the Bill and look at the policy behind it.”
“I recognise that none of these types of leave, none of these positive advancements, would address bereaved parents specifically but I highlight them as a context in which change in leave has taken place in recent years. When consulting with employers and social partners on the development of new or expanded entitlements a number of issues often arise, such as the impact on employers and the ability of employees to make full use of their statutory rights. It is important that both employers and employees feel confident and assured that leave can be taken appropriately and in full. The Government recognises that these developments, which greatly benefit parents, must also be practical and genuinely meet the needs of both parents and carers.”
“These developments have taken place alongside a broader expansion of entitlements for all workers, like statutory sick leave and the embrace of the more flexible working patterns which have emerged from the Covid-19 pandemic. Further measures were included as part of the Work Life Balance and Miscellaneous Provisions Act 2023, which included the introduction of five days leave for medical care purposes, five days paid domestic, sexual and gender-based violence leave, the right to request flexible working hours for parents and carers, the right to request remote working for all employees and, of course, the extension of breastfeeding breaks.”
“The strategy pulls together all the different national and international policy frameworks, the programme for Government commitments, EU priorities and sets out clearly and accessibly what the issues are, where the gaps are and where we need to further focus our work. There have been significant developments in the forms of leave available to working parents in recent years. This includes the introduction in 2019 of paid parents leave and the expansion of that so that it now provides nine weeks paid leave to each parent of a child under the age of two. In 2019, unpaid parental leave underwent a significant extension, with the entitlement now standing at 26 weeks for a child under 12-years-old.”
“The second objective I want to highlight is "Being Supported". This objective is intrinsic to the discussion we are having today in that it entails supporting women where they are giving care, and where they are receiving care. With this objective, we will be diving into the issues faced by women and girls, including the fair share of caring responsibilities, and expanding family leave entitlements to further support working parents in the workplace and at home. The Department is currently developing the first of two action plans to implement the strategy with the interdepartmental committee to put the strategy into action. I know that the Senator has very little faith in strategies, and I agree with her to a point. A strategy is nothing without action but we need the strategies to direct the action.”
“The strategy has seven objectives, each of which will deal with the challenges and barriers faced by women across the life course, and how these challenges are magnified when there are other intersecting and multiple forms of discrimination. Two key objectives I want to highlight here are the "Being Well" objective and the "Being Supported" objective. "Being Well" considers not only the physical and mental health of women and girls across their lives but also their general well-being. The commitments under this objective include advancing the provision of sexual and reproductive healthcare and related leaves and benefits. This speaks to the work ongoing between my Department and the Department of Enterprise, Tourism and Employment to develop policy and legislative proposals for those who experience early pregnancy loss.”
“As there is no entitlement to bereavement leave, a person who postpones their maternity leave would not be entitled to the associated maternity benefit. Therefore, the expectation of this Bill is either for the postponed period to be unpaid or that an employer would cover the period of at least five weeks, up to 52 weeks, with a payment. There is no clarity to what is being proposed by the Senator in this regard. As the Senator is aware, the Government is fully committed to supporting parents before, during and after pregnancy, and that is reflected in the National Strategy for Women and Girls 2025-2030, which I launched in November last year.”
“However, providing for such a postponement where there is not another form of statutory leave available, or where entitlements included in employment contracts are less than the minimum postponement period, places those most affected in a very difficult situation. With other postponements included in the Maternity Protection Act 1994, the employee would return to work for the postponement period, such as that for the hospitalisation of the child the maternity leave relates to. The Bill is also silent on the paid nature of the postponed period. As I have mentioned, with the amendments made in 2024 to the Maternity Protection Act, those postponing their maternity leave and benefit move to illness benefit for the period in which they are undergoing treatment.”
“In this case, the employee would be transitioning to other statutory leave or benefits, but that is not the case with the legislation under discussion today. That is a key point of difference. Bereavement leave is not a statutory entitlement at present but can be included as part of an employee's contract of employment. This is the case for civil and public servants, including teachers, whereby a set number of days' bereavement leave is provided, depending on the relationship of the employee to the person who has died. In the case of a child, an employee is entitled to 20 working days, or four weeks, to take time to grieve and come to terms with their loss. There is no time limit you can put on this, which I am sure and appreciate was the Senator's intention with the minimum period included in this Bill.”
“In the first instance, I want to note a number of unintended consequences that this Bill would have if enacted as it is. As the Senator has described, the Bill provides for an employee who is pregnant or on maternity leave to pause their maternity leave where they have lost a child. This is a worthy objective in any case. The Bill sets out that the postponement would be for a minimum of five weeks and that there is the possibility of a second postponement, with both postponement periods to be taken within a year of the start of the first pause. I understand the Senator has based this postponement on the amendments made by the Maternity Protection, Employment Equality and Preservation of Certain Records Act 2024 to allow an employee to pause their maternity leave to undertake treatment for a serious illness.”
“To lose a child is heartbreaking, but to lose a child while vulnerable on maternity leave – recovering from the trauma of birth and juggling multiple demands – is unimaginable. I understand the Senator's disappointment over the Government decision to defer the Second Reading of the Bill for 18 months, but I want to set out the reasons on the record of the House today. As I have acknowledged, the intention of the legislation is in good faith; however, having read the Bill – I assure the Senator it has been read forensically – I believe there are issues with it, as currently drafted, that will need to be addressed. There are a number of actions that the Department and my Government colleagues are progressing that I want to inform the House about.”
“I thank all the Senators for the opportunity to speak today and respond to the legislation proposed by Senator Nicole Ryan to amend the Maternity Protection Act 1994. I acknowledge the work of the Senator, particularly over the past year, to bring greater focus to the issues women face in pregnancy and postnatal care, and I look forward to working with her to provide further supports to those most affected by such tragic circumstances. The Bill has been drafted with the very best intention: to give mothers, in an already fragile state following the birth of a child, the time they need to grieve when that child is lost. I fully agree that the sentiment here is valid.”
“Paragraph D amends section 47 of the 2013 Act to clarify that directions to the agency from the Minister or the Minister for Education and Youth cannot apply to individual cases. I thank all the stakeholders who have contributed to the development of the Bill. I am pleased to have had the opportunity to outline its provisions and I look forward to hearing Deputies' views on the contents. I commend the Bill to the House.”
“Paragraph B inserts a new subsection 2(a) into section 8 to require the agency to prepare and publish general information on its role and responsibilities regarding childcare proceedings. Paragraph C provides for new reporting obligations of the Child and Family Agency. Section 46 will require it to produce an annual service performance and activity report. This report replaces the report currently produced under section 8 of the 1991 Act which would be repealed by section 3 of the Bill. Section 46B will oblige the agency every three years to produce a thematic report on topical topics to be chosen by the Minister for Children, Disability and Equality in consultation with the Minister for Education and Youth. This will enable a focus on a topic of interest, particular service or other functions of the agency.”
“Section 28 provides for the amendment of the First Schedule to the National Vetting Bureau (Children and Vulnerable Persons) Act 2012 to allow for the vetting of the emergency contact person of an early years service provider. It will also allow for the vetting of household members aged 16 and over who live in the premises where a childminding service is being provided. The final provision at section 29 provides for amendments to the Child and Family Agency Act 2013, completing the amendments to the 1991 Act set out in Part 2. In paragraph (a) the definition of a child in the 2013 Act is also amended to remove the exclusion for minors who are or may have been married.”
“It provides that the changes introduced for sections 23 and 24 shall not affect existing orders for enhanced rights granted to foster parents or relatives under section 43A of the 1991 Act before sections 23 and 24 came into operation and those existing orders will remain in force. Part 3 provides for miscellaneous amendments of the 1991 Act. Section 27 provides for the insertion of subsections into section 69 of the 1991 Act to provide that the Minister may issue guidelines to the agency concerning the performance of its functions under the Act; that the agency must have regard to any such guidelines; and that any such guidelines the Minister chooses to issue are published. Part 4 provides for amendment of other Acts.”