Robin Newton
East Belfast · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I thank the Member for giving way. The Member is aware that the Education Committee took on the very early role, as he requested. Mrs Dodds made the point that the Bill does not have a natural home, and that many suspect that its required budget will be much greater than that outlined in the Bill.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. She is absolutely right about how despicable a crime human trafficking is and about the attempt, via the Bill, to address it.”
“That is not the type of language that we expect to see from such respected bodies. Their overall concern is the education of our children. They represent schools, and they say that the Bill is "flawed" and "not fit for purpose", but it looks as though we will vote it through. <BR /> <BR />I move now to the history of the Bill.”
“Thank you. There seems to be a similar attitude to this legislation. We, on this side of the Chamber, and indeed others, have consistently argued that a private Member's Bill is not suitable for this type of legislation. The ramifications of the Bill are significant.”
“Again, it has been referred to that the chief executives of the Council for Catholic Maintained Schools; the Controlled Schools' Support Council; the Governing Bodies Association, which is the body covering voluntary grammar schools; the Catholic Schools' Trustee Service; the Transferor Representatives' Council, which represents the Presb…”
“As we have done at every stage, we oppose the Bill. Mr McCrossan is not in the Chamber at the moment, but I am not unlike him in the sense that I believe in all our children being educated together.”
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“I thank the Member for giving way. Will he agree with me that government cannot, on its own, deliver all the services that the community requires and that, if we do not have a volunteering approach and an innovative and cost-effective approach, society as a whole will lose out through the cuts to this budget in particular?”
“I thank the First Minister for that very detailed outline. Will he tell the House how much money will be spent on addressing sectarianism, particularly around the signature projects in the T:BUC strategy?”
“I thank the Minister for his statement. The Chair of the Committee asked specifically about the budget allocation for the collaborative programme of work over the next three years, but the Minister did not cover that in his answer. Can he outline the cost of the programme? <BR /> <BR />In addition, I welcome the establishment of a group by the Youth Council for Northern Ireland and the announcement of the work that it will do with the National Youth Council of Ireland. In the context of cuts to the youth budget, and the consternation that those cuts have caused in the education and library boards, which are particularly concerned about detached youth work in inner-city and difficult interface areas, is it the case that the establishment of the working group will in fact detract from existing support?”
“I thank the Minister for his answer so far. In terms of the whole community, and given the constraints on his budget, will the Minister actively consider marketing the facilities along with the individual schools, not just to the local community but to the third sector and, indeed, the private sector, to make use of the facilities?”
“<BR /> <BR />I do not want to say any more than that. The Chair has already made some comments regarding where we, in the DUP group, will be expressing concern. We are looking forward to working on the Bill and hopefully making the situation — in legislative terms — better for the children, the parents and the professionals who work in this field.”
“<BR /> <BR />I will say a few words about the parents. I have already said that parents who come into my office looking at the early stages of statemented needs find the situation confusing and frustrating. Too often — this point has already been made — the parents find themselves battling against bureaucracy. If this Bill does not help in that battle against bureaucracy, we will have failed those parents in many ways, certainly in the very early years. What we need to think about is a simple, joined-up approach, so that all the support mechanisms that can be brought to bear for the parents are brought to bear for them. The system should be designed to benefit the parents, and therefore benefit the children in their journey through life — in many cases, a very difficult journey through life.”
“<BR /> <BR />I will talk a bit about the children. This legislation has to target the children, in the sense that it helps to build their confidence in their future and their abilities to survive beyond the normal school environment. That needs an approach that is child-centred — if that is not too much of a cliché — an approach that supports the child in their school environment and prepares the child for life beyond their school years. Mr Swann made some comments about the reaction by DEL in that area, as the child goes on to further education. This is about building the confidence of the child as a pupil in the school and maximising the full potential of the child to enjoy a quality of life beyond the school years that any of us would want for any of our children as they travel through school and into manhood or womanhood.”
“<BR /> <BR />The point has been made already about the need for this Bill to ensure that the education system and health provision are joined up. In the case of the pupils at that school, and, I imagine, across the board, we need to see Education and Health joining up in the provision of support for the professional staff in that school in particular. <BR /> <BR />As I was leaving the school and saying, "Thank you" to the two professional teaching staff, I remarked to them that I had never seen a school with more smiles in it. The principal said that that comment is often made by people who come to visit Glenveagh Special School. They notice the smiles of the pupils as they are going around the school. It is the professional staff who support those pupils whom we need to support through this legislation.”
“<BR /> <BR />I have a few remarks to make about the Bill in its totality and a little bit about what it does or should do for our children, their parents, and the teaching profession which deals with them. I was invited to Glenveagh Special School a number of weeks ago. I walked around the school with the principal and one of her staff, and I do not think that I could have been more impressed by a school that is probably at the more extreme end of the spectrum for children with very complex needs. I could not have been more impressed by the way those children were being taught, and being trained in many cases. I had the opportunity to see them in the classroom and coming in from work experience, and you only had to look at the staff to see their dedication.”
“Even with support staff, it is difficult for me to find my way through it. Parents get confused, and that often leads to frustration, which is not good for the family atmosphere, for the child or for other children. <BR /> <BR />Last week, the Minister spoke to the Committee about where he was going to orientate his budget, about services that are being offered and where he would have to reduce services and budgets. Indeed, many will be disappointed that the very services that offer support will be targeted in the 2015-16 budget and will receive cutbacks. We are looking to bring in legislation to improve the situation for children while, on the other hand, we are looking at cutbacks to the budget that provides the support services for them.”
“Included in those figures are 73,000 children with special educational needs, 16,000 of whom have been identified as having no formal statement of their needs. <BR /> <BR />An increasing number of parents are coming to my constituency office with autistic spectrum disorder issues, and a number of children with autism have come to me for work experience. I can well understand the concerns of those parents. In five years, autistic spectrum disorder has increased by about 67%. Those are phenomenal figures, and I do not think that society in general appreciates them. It is our children whom we are dealing with, and the legislation needs to be addressed towards their needs. The Chair said that it is self-evident that the statementing process is complex, confusing and overly bureaucratic, and I know that from parents who come to the office.”
“We are dealing with legislation today, but we need to remember that, at the very heart of that legislation, are children and families. Indeed, in the professional way in which support is offered, we need to address the legislation towards teachers and support staff and to improve the holistic package that is offered to all of them. <BR /> <BR />In the Chair's initial remarks, she very adequately indicated the position. The Department's most recent figures show that the percentage of children with special needs has risen from what we thought at one stage was around 16% of the school population. That figure was taken 10 years ago and, in the intervening period, has risen, so that 22% of the school population are children with special needs.”
“Like others, I welcome the general principle of the Bill and thank the Minister for bringing it forward. It becomes a bit of a cliché and can be said too often, but society is often judged by the way in which it treats the most vulnerable in society. In this case, we are talking about children and young adults, many of whom have very complex needs and some of whom have less complex needs. Nevertheless, the purpose of drafting legislation is to provide betterment and to improve the position of the people whom the Bill is targeted towards. In this case, it is those who have a vulnerability: children with special needs. They are among the most vulnerable in our society and, in many cases, comprise a section that needs as much support as society can offer.”
“I thank the Minister for that answer. Can the Minister confirm that everything that can be done is being done on a week-to-week, month-to-month basis to support Bombardier as it develops the project?”
“— and that the Departments can work together to maximise the potential of STEM to our economy.”
“I hope, on the basis of what the First Minister said earlier today, that the silo mentality can be got over —”
“<BR /> <BR />There are many, many more who could be named. Others in the Chamber mentioned them. Lord Kelvin — or 1st Baron Kelvin, as he was referred to — was mentioned because of the recent Kelvin infrastructure for communications. <BR /> <BR />Let me just say this in the short time that I have left: the benefits of STEM will be realised fully only when there is an increased understanding between science, technology and mathematics and a full understanding of the potential of those subjects to our community and society. We need pathways for young skilled and knowledgeable people; we need a change of culture to reduce and manage risk aversion; we need a change of culture to build the links between Northern Ireland businesses, universities and publicly funded research projects.”
“He became a technician at Queen's University and was inspired there. He graduated with two degrees in experimental physics and mathematical physics. This was a man from Belfast who corrected Einstein. Only recently he had a street named after him in Belfast. Unfortunately, he missed out on a Nobel prize only because of his untimely death. <BR /> <BR />Dame Jocelyn Bell Burnell was born in Belfast and educated in Lurgan. She failed her 11-plus. She was educated in York and impressed her physics teacher so much that he encouraged her down the line of science. She graduated from Glasgow University with a Bachelor of Science degree. She campaigned to increase the number of females who participate in physics and astronomy. She is house patron of Burnell House at Cambridge House Grammar School in Ballymena.”
“Harry Ferguson, who has been mentioned, was a farmer's son from County Down; he started life in a very humble way, working in a bicycle and car repair business. He was fascinated by aviation and inspired by the Wright brothers. Indeed, he wanted to embrace, and he did, his scientific and technical knowledge and convert it into success in running a business. It is difficult to think what the agriculture industry might be like today had it not been for the benefits of his skills and engineering knowledge. <BR /> <BR />Another was John Stewart Bell. He was born in Belfast in a very humble background; he decided on a career in science when he was 11 years of age. He did not have the opportunity to go to a grammar school, but he finished his education at Belfast technical college.”
“I want to make two points on that. Our history on STEM, and indeed Northern Ireland's successful high achievers who have come out of what we now call "STEM" — certainly, it was not called "STEM" in their day — is a platform on which we can build to take us forward. In the STEM areas, Northern Ireland has punched well above its weight; much like our sporting achievements over the weekend. It is often said that the only resources that we have in Northern Ireland are our people. STEM gives us an opportunity to embrace all those elements on which to build a strategy for success. <BR /> <BR />I want to mention, as others have, a few people who have been successful and their backgrounds.”
“I, too, support the motion. Like my colleague, I want to hone in on what I see as a key phrase in the motion:”
“Will the Minister confirm whether there is still general interest in the iconic building in which the Titanic was designed, known as the Harland and Wolff drawing offices, and whether there is potential to convert it into a hotel?”
“Does the Minister recognise that the Eastside Arts Festival, as it is now branded, has been developed over the past few years basically on a shoestring, and that, as such, needs investment to ensure that it can catch up with all the other festivals that have a history of success?”
“I thank the Minister for her answer. Does she envisage that NIFL will have any role to play in the distribution of the moneys?”
“I welcome the Minister's very detailed statement, particularly his words about open, honest and intelligent debate on how to move forward. The implications of that are spelled out in paragraph 4.5 of the report. We need to debate the issue further. How can data and metrics help to bring forward the safety agenda?”
“Even though the budget has been adjusted to some extent, budgetary factors will still impact on them. The proposed budget, even as it stands, will impact on schools across the boards. For me, what many will regard as — I was going to use the term "waste", but that is not the term to use, so I will use "preference" again — preference being given in order to spend money on a small number of pupils cannot be justified in today's circumstances. The Minister knows this: the proposal is having a detrimental impact across the whole of the educational establishment.”
“I will be absolutely clear: this is not an attack on those who wish to speak Irish or wish to be educated in Irish. It is not an attack on them. It is not to discourage anyone who is in that frame of mind. I have no doubt that many people who are educated in the Irish-medium sector are enthusiastic about that and indeed turn out to be exemplary pupils produced by that education sector. This is about the preference that is given to that sector above that given to others. <BR /> <BR />I know — the Minister is aware of this because we had the debate on his budget proposals — that there was a massive response from schools to the budget proposals, certainly in my constituency and wider. I presume that, because I am a member of the education and library board, I received correspondence from a wide range of schools regarding the severe impact.”
“If the Sinn Féin contributors have respect for those who are involved in the education system, they really ought to speak to them and indicate to them that, regardless of their proposals, they will go ahead and support the proposal from the Minister. That indicates that, in not taking account of the opinion of professionals in the field of education, the Minister is showing his preference, which seems to embrace his cultural perspective and, indeed, his political perspective, for trying to push the proposal forward. No other educational establishment outside the Irish-medium sector would even be considered for 15 places, or 14 places — whatever the small number is — and be supported by the Minister.”
“I thank the Member for that information, but the fact is that St Patrick's has indicated its concern about the Minister's proposal. That is the how things stand. Whatever way either of the Sinn Féin contributors wishes to dress it up, St Patrick's is concerned, and it is not the only one that is concerned. There were two other responses — both objections in the North Eastern Education and Library Board — and the Rev Donard Collins, chairperson of the board of governors of Killowen Primary School in Coleraine, felt that the proposal should be rejected, given the budgetary pressures facing Departments.”
“However, whatever the attitude of those bodies — we know that attitudes have varied — some schools that have an Irish-medium-education facility have expressed concerns about the Minister's proposal. In the Western Education and Library Board area, St Patrick's College offers Irish-medium education at post-primary level for 36 pupils through an unrecognised stream that has been operating for 10 years. One of the feeder schools in the proposals is St Brigid's Primary School, which is only 2·3 miles away from St Patrick's and is a feeder school for the Irish-medium stream. Hence, St Patrick's might be considered likely to be affected by the Minister's proposal.”
“I welcome the motion proposed by Mr Kinahan. He has encapsulated in it concerns across the entire education community, and I hope that he will be able to accept the amendment put forward by the Democratic Unionist Party. <BR /> <BR />The two contributors from Sinn Féin — that is, the ones who spoke officially, not the one who spoke in an intervention — indicated that the Western Education and Library Board, the North Eastern Education and Library Board, the Education and Training Inspectorate and the ministerial advisory board were neglectful and did not make interventions and that it was down to schools in those areas to raise objections. They made much of that.”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. Those statistics are very encouraging. Can the Minister outline any more specific steps that he is taking that might further encourage Northern Ireland companies, particularly SMEs, to secure contracts with government?”
“— subjects from the curriculum and having to tailor other aspects of the school, which would result in the pupils losing out.”
“I have been lobbied specifically, not by a school in my constituency but by a school that provides a service to pupils with difficult and challenging circumstances. That is Glenveagh Special School. I hope that we will meet the school in the not-too-distant future. I received a detailed reply from another school that indicated that, if the current budget were to go ahead, it would lose about £220,000, which would approximate to six teachers. The school would end up having to remove —”
“I think that we would all agree with that, but teachers, principals and boards of governors do not currently recognise that in the proposals under the draft Budget. <BR /> <BR />The Minister talks about bringing about change. There is an opportunity to bring about change under the Education Bill, but change will not happen. I have expressed my disappointment to the Minister in Committee about the lack of progress that was being made under the Education Bill or ESA, as it previously was, to prepare for change. We need to profit from the change, as do our pupils and young people. In doing that, we need to adapt to changing circumstances. We need to control the changing circumstances and to make effective the change that that will bring about. <BR /> <BR />I referred to being lobbied by schools.”
“The motion, which the DUP Committee members tabled and the Chair proposed, recognises that we work in a challenging financial environment. It also recognises that there is widespread concern in schools about the draft Budget. I doubt whether any Member has not been lobbied or contacted by schools or had telephone calls or letters from schools. An opportunity has now been presented to the Minister to make savings under the new Education Bill. <BR /> <BR />The Minister talks in the right ethos about that area and about investing in our children. In welcoming the Education Bill, in his press statement, he said that it was a significant way forward for children and young people. I agree, but action is required to make that happen. When he was speaking to the Catholic Principals Association, he also said:”
“We need to understand what that completely new approach might be, but we are dealing with the education system as it is.”
“We often talk about the cost of education, and that seems to be the approach that we take, rather than what many of us actually think, which is that it should be about investment in education. Whether that is investment in the pupils who sit behind a desk or in the youth services that the education services provide, it is a benefit for our young people from the time they enter the school system until they leave it. You can criticise the system as much as you like. In fact, Mr Kinahan said in his opening remarks — he may well be right — that we needed a completely new approach. Mr Kinahan has not tabled any amendments today, but he spent six minutes on his speech. At the end of his six minutes, he said, "I have a lot of ideas, but I haven't time to share them with you", but in his opening remarks he said:”
“I want to make a number of remarks about what, I believe, is a very competent motion before the Assembly today.”
“I thank the Minister for his answers so far. Is he prepared to think in the new year about the development of the site in a three-phase strategy? As such, the vocational units that are proposed to be on the site would be taken as one phase; the potential for Belfast City Council to provide a leisure centre on the site would be taken as a second; and the college itself may be taken as a third. That might not happen in any particular order, I might add, but such phasing might allow for something to actually happen on the site in what is a constrained financial situation.”
“<BR /> <BR />We have not yet reached the end of the debate, but, generally speaking, the Bill has been a very positive move for education in Northern Ireland. I feel certain that the general feeling in the education community will be that progress is being made, particularly from our previous position on education, where it was reflected in the Chamber that we could not get agreement and where the pupils, the schools and the parents of Northern Ireland suffered. We are taking a step forward, and that is to be welcomed.”
“The Committee heard about a number of examples of where shared education is working. It is maybe not working in an ideal or totally holistic way, but we have heard about moves towards it. It needs to be continual and it cannot stop at a certain point. We also need an evaluation of shared education at some stage. <BR /> <BR />The Minister has indicated his desire to bring forward a definition of shared education. He has also indicated that there will be a stand-alone Bill on shared education, and the House should welcome that. Certainly, from where we are coming from, I see that as a very definite move. It needs to be done with a degree of energy and urgency, with an emphasis on it so that we do not reach the conclusion of the Bill and miss the definition of shared education.”
“It has now become a concept in the minds of many. It needs to move to a position in which it can be defined. We need to see what it will mean, what its outworkings will be and what support it will eventually need. It needs to be put into practice and we need to see it working.”
“Certainly, the two largest education providers, the controlled sector and the maintained sector, cannot be disadvantaged, or even perceived to be disadvantaged, against any other sector. <BR /> <BR />I agree with the closing remarks of Mr Lunn, who said that our children need to get to know each other from an early stage. I presume that he means that children need to be educated together, and I agree wholeheartedly with that. In the previous debate, I made the point that I sought out a school for my children where they would come together with children from all sorts of backgrounds, religious and ethnic, and gain from that experience in education. It really is a question of how we do that, and I favour the approach of what we now refer to as shared education. <BR /> <BR />A number of years ago, shared education was an idea.”
“Its structure needs to give confidence to every section of the community and every education provider that what we are doing is on a fair and equal basis, and that is how they will be treated. <BR /> <BR />There cannot be any preference given to any section. Nobody can be gold-plated; nobody can be disadvantaged. There has to be a level playing field across all sectors. Other sectors need to be brought up to the same standard of achievement as those that, in the past, sought, and perhaps got, preference. All sectors need to have the same level of responsibility and be on the same platform — a platform enjoyed across the whole of the Education Authority. <BR /> <BR />It would be remiss of us if we were to put through legislation that gave preference to any one sector or part of the education estate.”
“The objective relates to the pupils, parents and schools of Northern Ireland, and, in that context, I think that we are making good progress. <BR /> <BR />The first group of amendments relates to the duties of the authority and the committees. I support amendment No 1, I am against amendment Nos 2 and 3, and I am supportive in general of the others. Like my colleague Mr McCausland, I seek clarity on amendment Nos 13, 14, 16 and 17, which are Mr McCallister's. <BR /> <BR />It is important that we establish the authority and establish it on an absolutely sound footing that every section of our community can buy into. It is important that equality runs through the authority. It must run from top to bottom, from the board right through to the establishment of the committees.”
“I welcome the opportunity to move this Bill forward again. It is key that we remind ourselves where the Bill is coming from. It is intended to establish the Education Authority and was prompted by the local government reform that will take place next year. Just for clarity, it is not the Education and Skills Authority by the back door, side door or any other door; it is a different Bill altogether. I say that in the sense that I recognise that good progress is being made on it. When there was the potential for accelerated passage, there was some concern from other sections of the House. However, look at where we are now. When the objective is to provide for the education of our children, it is amazing what we can do in such a short time.”
“What he did not indicate was that it will be a holistic approach to area-based planning. He will be aware that Professor Knox, when giving evidence to the Committee, described area-based planning, as it stands, as nothing more than a "cut-and-paste exercise".”
“I thank the Minister for his statement. I refer to the part of the statement dealing with a strategic approach to planning. He will be aware of the work being done by the Committee on area-based planning and that, in the past, area-based planning has let down schools, pupils and parents. The Minister said:”
“I thank the Minister for his very detailed statement. I have to say that I think that Northern Ireland is in a better place today than it was 10 or 12 days ago, and I thank him for all the work that he has done on that. The Minister outlined in his statement the £100 million that has been granted as a loan facility for this year. Will he detail how that might be repaid next year?”