Robin Newton
East Belfast · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I thank the Member for giving way. The Member is aware that the Education Committee took on the very early role, as he requested. Mrs Dodds made the point that the Bill does not have a natural home, and that many suspect that its required budget will be much greater than that outlined in the Bill.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. She is absolutely right about how despicable a crime human trafficking is and about the attempt, via the Bill, to address it.”
“That is not the type of language that we expect to see from such respected bodies. Their overall concern is the education of our children. They represent schools, and they say that the Bill is "flawed" and "not fit for purpose", but it looks as though we will vote it through. <BR /> <BR />I move now to the history of the Bill.”
“Thank you. There seems to be a similar attitude to this legislation. We, on this side of the Chamber, and indeed others, have consistently argued that a private Member's Bill is not suitable for this type of legislation. The ramifications of the Bill are significant.”
“Again, it has been referred to that the chief executives of the Council for Catholic Maintained Schools; the Controlled Schools' Support Council; the Governing Bodies Association, which is the body covering voluntary grammar schools; the Catholic Schools' Trustee Service; the Transferor Representatives' Council, which represents the Presb…”
“As we have done at every stage, we oppose the Bill. Mr McCrossan is not in the Chamber at the moment, but I am not unlike him in the sense that I believe in all our children being educated together.”
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“It was back in August 2019 when the Chief Constable first raised the question of his need for an additional 800 officers. Given what the Minister has just said, some 14 months into her tenure, what confidence can she give to the Chief Constable that the 800 officers will be delivered, bearing in mind the critical health situation at the moment and, indeed, the number of officers who are not available to the Chief Constable at this stage?”
“Will the Member agree with me that the partnership with Health, as explained by the Minister, should be extended to include the beefing-up or increased professionalism of the family intervention teams in Health and Education to address the issue of at-risk children?”
“I know that the Member shares my concern for children who are at school on a regular basis but are at risk in their own home. There are 2,000 such children across Northern Ireland. The Member will have noticed the Barnardo's adverts, where a child pleads to be allowed to return to school.”
“Indeed, the Minister indicated that the Executive, when considering the range of severe but necessary restrictions in the current circumstances, did not seek to close schools. The Minister, in his plans at that time, had the support of his Executive colleagues for his directions. Now, the situation is changing, and it is changing extremely quickly. We know that. We have seen the actions taken in England, Scotland, Wales and the Republic, and I commend the Minister for his response to the situation as it stands. <BR /> <BR />The motion is not unexpected. It is a serious situation that we are playing with, and I know that the Minister recognises its seriousness.”
“If you look at the end of the Minister's statement, you will see an indication of the direction in which the Minister is going and, indeed, the statement that you referred to this morning contains the further directions he is taking.”
“Within the Executive are, obviously, the First Minister and the deputy First Minister, Minister Murphy, Minister Mallon, Minister Long and Minister Swann. So the Minister and the Executive agreed on the safe return to schools.”
“I believe that Dr McBride and Professor Young also engage with SAGE as they go about their work. <BR /> <BR />On 21 December — and the proposer of the motion has referred to it — the Minister indicated that:”
“Appalling language, as my colleague has said. <BR /> <BR />I welcome the work of the Minister. Initially, in his work with the Department of Education, along with the Minister for Health, the Department of Health, the Education Authority and the Public Health Agency he sought professional advice on handling the situation in our schools with the aim of keeping our pupils safe. The proposer of the motion referred to the Minister as only seeking advice from a Conservative Government. However, the motion calls on the Minister to seek advice from the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies: I think that is a Government organisation. SAGE has offered advice, and, if I am not wrong on this, the Minister has indicated in his most recent statement that he seeks advice from Dr McBride and Professor Ian Young.”
“I thank the Minister for his attendance today and, indeed, for his previous attendance in the Chamber and his willingness to attend the Committees on a regular basis and, indeed, to give generously of his time when he has attended the Committees, often extending that time to allow Committee members to pose questions and seek advice and answers from the Minister. In that context, it is disappointing that in a press statement to the 'Belfast Telegraph' the proposer of the motion referred to the Minister as ducking and diving. Peter Weir has never ducked and never dived: he has given generously of his time in this situation.”
“We all recognise the very serious health situation that is out there. In recognising that serious health situation, I want to pay tribute to the principals, teachers, support staff and, indeed, the boards of governors in all of the schools, whose only main interest is the protection of the children and their education. <BR /> <BR />In these difficult days, we should also recognise the very serious work that is being done by the National Health Service, particularly those doctors and nurses who are working at the very sharp end of things. I thank every nurse and doctor who is in that front-line service.”
“I thank the Minister for his very detailed answer; it is obviously a subject that he is taking very seriously. I pay tribute to the Minister because, when I have raised matters on waiting lists or when procedures will take place, he has always been extremely helpful. <BR /> <BR />Minister, the picture that you have painted is a rather bleak one for those who are in the diagnostic area awaiting treatments, such as cancer patients and diabetes patients. From what you have said, Minister, I assume that you will be making a bid to the Executive for increased funding in the forthcoming days. If that funding becomes available, when might we expect to see waiting lists coming down so that they are approaching a level that one would see in a normal situation?”
“What will be the most challenging aspect that the panel will face?”
“I agree with other Members that today's announcement is, indeed, a timely one. It is very ambitious and will undoubtedly be welcomed across the Chamber and throughout the education sector. <BR /> <BR />I note that, as others mentioned, this is the second New Decade, New Approach initiative that the Minister has announced. I will quote from the statement:”
“I thank the Minister for this work, for all the hard work that has gone into the preparation of the statement and, indeed, for the initiatives that he is prepared to undertake. Can I just seek total clarity? Minister, you mentioned consultation in your statement and said that your officials had worked extensively with CCEA and that you had engaged with the Education and Training Inspectorate, school leaders, teachers and, importantly, as you said, the young people or pupils themselves to seek a way forward. Will you clarify that the new assessments at AS and A2 level will effectively be reduced by up to 60%?”
“The Minister will know that, although the number of charities that she quoted have been supported, quite a number have not. It seems that there are charities that, even though they are independent in Northern Ireland, because they operate nationally and the national body has reserves, the local body is perceived to be ruled out of getting funding from the Department for Communities. Will the Minister look at the situation so that local bodies that are tied to national bodies are eligible for funding from the support that she has on offer?”
“I thank the Minister for her statement. It was extremely useful. I note, Minister, that cruelty to animals was discussed with your counterpart. Specifically, was the cruel practice of puppy farming discussed? I note that the mid-Ulster PSNI is running a campaign in this area that it has titled Paws for Thought, and it is indicating in that campaign that it believes organised crime groups are involved in puppy farming. Indeed, the PSNI indicated to me that it is concerned about puppy smuggling across the border. If puppy farming was discussed, perhaps the Minister will let us know, or, if it was not discussed, will she add it to the next agenda?”
“I thank the Minister for her detailed answer. Has any assessment been carried out of the mental health problems of or support offered to the victims of crime who have been waiting such a long time to have their cases dealt with?”
“I thank the Minister for her answer. No prison service could achieve the high standards that we all want without the dedication of the staff who are employed in it at all levels. All those staff are agents of change and, indeed, reform, whether that be in the prisons or the young offenders' centre. What specific investment will take place in order to upgrade the skills, qualifications and knowledge of prison staff at all levels?”
“I thank the Minister for her statement and answers so far. Was the Northern Ireland centenary and the positive role that both organisations might play discussed? If not, will the Minister place it on the agenda for next meeting?”
“I thank the Minister for her reply. Unfortunately, I was not in the Chamber when Mr O'Dowd asked his question, so I apologise for that. Which part of the text from an emerging agreement would you be studying with particular reference to Northern Ireland's position?”
“I will go to the same item, Minister, on special educational needs. In the discussions, have you noted any radical differences between the approach being used in Northern Ireland, on the basis of addressing the needs of our young pupils, and the approach being used by the Minister in the Republic of Ireland?”
“On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. Which clause is the Member speaking to?”
“Yes. Other words that also appear are "happy", "important", "excited", "ready", "good" and "useful".”
“The Member makes an important point about the word cloud that was used. She quoted some words.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. He rightly refers to the section of our community who are most hit by this situation: schoolchildren. I know that he feels much the same as I do about the shocking fact that 2,000 children were at risk in their own home during the school closure. Does the Member agree that much more needs to be done between the Education Department and the Health Department on the issues pertinent to those 2,000 children?”
“The Member referred to the selection test. Does the Member agree that it was irresponsible to do away with the 11-plus before an adequate discussion and negotiation took place to identify another system that could be put in place?”
“It is fair to ask whether children should have been put into the situation, but the children were included in the survey. That is a fact. <BR /> <BR />If we look at the results on post-primary transfer, we see that, before the COVID-19 crisis, 74·5% of parents and guardians were planning for their child to take the transfer test, 21% were not and 4·5% specified "Other". It is right that the survey was done, but, underneath it all, there is a current running against selection and the grammar schools as we know them.”
“<BR /> <BR />When young people were asked about whether the tests should be abolished, 35% felt that they should be retained, 14% felt that they should be changed and 13% were unsure. While 38% wanted the tests to be abolished, up to 62%, therefore, wanted the tests to be retained or changed or were unsure.”
“When the COVID-19 situation occurred, responding on how they felt about children taking the post-primary test during the lockdown period, 61% of parents or guardians, 64% of teachers and 67% of others stated that they were concerned or extremely concerned. It would have been strange if they were not concerned in those circumstances, which were impacting on every sector of industry. <BR /> <BR />When asked the question about whether the test should be run as planned in the autumn, 45% of young people wanted the test to be run as planned rather than changing the date of the term; 25% felt that schools should use a different way of assessing academic ability, based on scores in primary schools; 14% felt that the tests should be delayed until January 2021; and 12% felt that the tests should not be run.”
“The fact that that is happening stands in stark contrast to the very negative approach of the Chair of the Committee. <BR /> <BR />I want to refer to the survey. Before I do, the Chair made some remarks about children, school principals and teaching staff always being safe. Nobody would dispute that in any way. It goes without saying that we want the very best protection for the teaching staff and pupils in every school, from the moment that they go in through the front gates of the school until they come back out again, in whatever circumstances the children find themselves. <BR /> <BR />I want to refer to some of the findings of the post-primary transfer survey, and I note that the Chair will refer to those when he speaks as an MLA. Before we had the COVID-19 crisis, 91% of respondents planned to sit the transfer test.”
“Thank you, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker. First, I thank Louise Close and her colleagues in the Assembly Engagement team for what was a very useful exercise. At this stage, I want to pay tribute to principals, boards of governors, teaching staff and all support staff for the way in which they have reacted during the pandemic. We owe them all a debt of gratitude. <BR /> <BR />Despite the Chair's remarks, which, if I am honest, I find nearly insulting, it was right to carry out the survey. It was right to carry out a survey in the middle of a pandemic. Given the circumstances in which we all found ourselves — unknown circumstances and a place where we had never been before — it was right to do that. I welcome that, today, all our schools are open, the teaching staff are there and the children are being educated.”
“That is not a criticism; in many ways, it is a compliment. <BR /> <BR />We have got to recognise that education is not just about reading, writing and arithmetic; it is about much more than that. It is not about the cost of education; it is about us investing in education. Matthew O'Toole talked this morning about the need for the Budget to not just be looked at annually and said that there would be much better financial planning with a two-, three- or four-year cycle. I wholeheartedly agree with that, because the various Departments will then know what to expect further down the line, rather than just this annual cycle — in fact, we are not even in an annual cycle at this stage, but generally speaking — of investment. <BR /> <BR />Obviously, I support the Budget, with all the caveats and requests that I have made over that short period.”
“<BR /> <BR />It is very difficult when you have lost your momentum from the morning session to come back with the same momentum in the afternoon, but it is my intention to finish with this point. Emerging nations and economies across the world recognise the need to be educated, for the sake of the economy, their people and the health of their people. In developing countries, across the board, primary education tends to be the number one investment priority. Many highly skilled teachers from Northern Ireland are working in schools in developing countries, and, in many cases, they are much better rewarded there than they would be in Northern Ireland. That indicates the value of people who are from here. They could make a very positive contribution to the holistic education and wealth of Northern Ireland, and they are out there doing that.”
“<BR /> <BR />One of the Committee's first informal meetings was with a leadership group of principals from special educational needs schools. It will come as no shock to the Minister that I came away from the meeting feeling quite emotional about the work that they were doing and the circumstances in which some were having to do it. Even though some schools were in fairly modern buildings, the increasing number of pupils meant that they had outgrown them, and facilities such as store rooms had been changed into classrooms. I welcome the work that is being done on special educational needs. However, that is another area that deserves and needs investment.”
“My specific experience is around family intervention teams (FITs): helping families who are finding it difficult to cope, for whatever reason, and children who are finding it difficult to gain the benefit of education. Teachers are spending more and more time on social issues than on education. In that respect, Minister, I believe that tackling underachievement needs a partnership approach. <BR /> <BR />Budget line A-19 shows that the Budget will support the Middletown Centre for Autism. The Education Committee is aware of the major problems that parents have experienced when having children assessed. Assessment was a long process that frustrated families. We are investing — I cannot remember the figure — in Middletown, but the Education Authority needs to invest further in the diagnosis of and support around autism.”
“In the debate, Andy Allen asked a question as I was talking about the Minister's initiative to tackle underachievement. He, very rightly, asked about housing and whether it was a factor in underachievement. Indeed, I would make the point that, as the Minister develops the initiative on underachievement, I believe that two things will come out of it. I say to the Minister of Finance that we need to address urgently the issue of poor-quality and overcrowded housing, not just in my constituency but where it exists across Northern Ireland. Not to do so would be shameful for the future. <BR /> <BR />The work on underachievement will also require a need to work in partnership with the Health Department, and I believe that that will be in the report of the expert group on underachievement that the Minister has established.”
“I want to begin with an apology to my colleague Mr Paul Givan, who, I understand, I referred to as Mr Paul Girvan. As we know, Paul Girvan is in another place, so I apologise to Mr Givan.”
“I agree with Mr Allen. I know that, particularly over the COVID-19 lockdown period, children who lived in overcrowded houses suffered most. <BR /> <BR />I will leave it at that, if that suits, Mr Deputy Speaker.”
“He has set up an expert group. I have no doubt that it will receive the support of the Education Committee and, I hope, the support of the Chamber. That is likely to reveal that Education on its own cannot address the issue; other Departments will need to be involved, particularly the Department of Health. I think more of the joined-upness of Education and Health via family intervention teams, which deal with —”
“It has been said, "It hasn't gone away, you know". It has not gone away, you know, and there is an ongoing need for investment in this area. Perhaps, as Mr Girvan said, we need to learn how to live with COVID-19, but that, Minister, will require further investment in our schools. <BR /> <BR />I welcome Peter Weir's initiative in tackling underachievement. In my office, I have seven or eight local studies on tackling underachievement. Some were done by individuals or groups, and some were done professionally. We need to invest in tackling underachievement, whatever budget is determined on the initiative coming out of the Minister's work. It is always said that, if you do not tackle issues at the beginning of a process, you pay five or six times for them down the line. Tackling underachievement is a priority for the Minister.”
“As Ms Cameron mentioned, there should be a joined-upness between the Department of Health and the other Departments. If we do not address challenging behaviour at primary level, we run the risk of those behaviours becoming more and more intense and costing us the whole way through the system. <BR /> <BR />I thank the teachers. Many of them are dedicated. I am often surprised at the number of teachers who dedicate themselves and work well beyond the school hours, although perhaps not so much today, when we have somewhat restricted views. <BR /> <BR />I appeal to the Finance Minister. COVID-19 has been challenging. There is no doubt, Minister, that, as the Budget is rolled out, there will be times when school principals and school boards will need specific support to address COVID-19 issues.”
“It was said to me by a teacher at one time, "If I was not in school but in industry, I would not be able to use this classroom, because it is not fit for purpose". I do not know whether that was true, but she said it. That is how many schoolteachers feel. <BR /> <BR />I want to talk about some of the primary schools. I know that this is not particular to my East Belfast constituency, but many primary schools are in historic buildings or buildings that, by today's standards, are not fit for purpose. They are in buildings, particularly in inner city areas, where principals and teachers can face many difficulties through challenging behaviour. In that situation, money needs to be set aside for the principals and teachers who face the challenges of some pupils' behaviour.”
“<BR /> <BR />I represent a constituency that has excellent schools. It has high-achieving schools that offer a wide curriculum. Some of them can touch every part of what the Department sets out to do, and they produce excellent results. They are oversubscribed and difficult to get into, and they turn out young people who are mentally and physically well-rounded and well-resourced. They are schools that have a long history of providing young people with opportunities and encouraging them to go to university. However, many of them require investment. Classrooms are draughty, and roofs have been leaking. They go on from one year to another, and, historically, the money has not been there to address those issues. We cannot allow the principals and teachers to work in such facilities.”
“I am not a European in the sense that I want to be part of Europe, but, like many other people, I want to share with Europe what we have here and what Europe has. I have some experience. I will use this expression and hope that I do not offend anyone by it. When I was working for a living, before I became a politician, I spent a lot of my energies on European funding programmes that provided young people from Northern Ireland — not just those at school level, but up to postgraduate level — with opportunities to enjoy, learn from and acquire skills from an experience in Europe. I had the privilege of working around Lake Como for most of it. Members will understand that it was difficult being in Lake Como. We need to find a way to support the European initiatives that will come forward.”
“It is not just about the three Rs; we are investing in a swathe of issues in our education system. <BR /> <BR />With regard to the schedule detail on resource cash allocation, I want to mention two items that are relatively small in the Department's overall spend. It is appropriate that, as we look at the Budget and look forward, we should, at least, pay tribute to a man who has invested his own money in our education system: Chuck Feeney, a billionaire who, I understand, has now reached the end of the process of giving away £8 billion. He invested in Northern Ireland's education system. <BR /> <BR />The other area relates to the European Union Programme for Peace and Reconciliation.”
“across communities, with respect for the opinions of other people, and, indeed, to respect”
“Our schools have a responsibility to turn out good citizens. That is what we ask them to do; that is what we invest in. Through our Youth Service and our children's services, we aim to assist our young people to”
“that is number one. It is why they go to school. However, for a rounded education, we also want to give them”
“Education is not just the three Rs. I look at the analysis of education spend under "Subhead Detail and Resource to Cash Reconciliation": what do we get for that investment?”
“We should never think of education as a cost; it is an investment in the future of all of us. There is an absolute requirement to invest in education. There is also the requirement to revise education investment. In the Budget, it is appropriate that we look at each element of education investment, scrutinise where we are and, indeed, measure the outcomes and success of where we invest and support our education professionals and appreciate our teaching and teaching-support staff. We must recognise the valuable contribution that our principals have made in the health crisis and understand that education is a building block for the future of everything: the economy, health, communities, the arts and every other sector.”