Chris Hazzard
South Down · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“The order I am bringing forward extends the power for my Department to pay a grant to NI Water in lieu of domestic water charges. The current powers to pay a grant will expire on 31 March 2017, and the Water and Sewerage Services Act 2016, which was passed by the Assembly in January last year, provided the power to extend that date by an…”
“I thank those Members who have commented on the motion this evening. Some general issues and several specific points have been raised. <BR /> <BR />I will turn first to Mr Farry's question: why, for the period of time?”
“I am delighted that the Alliance argument around water charges does not chime with more of the electorate and that the particular reason does not hold sway, because this Executive certainly are not for turning on this issue. There will be no water charges for domestic customers, and we have ensured that.”
“<BR /> <BR />The second point that Mr Farry raised was around governance issues and the way forward. They are all issues that I have given thought to and that, I have no doubt, would have featured in the mandate in the time ahead, but we are not at that point today. The Assembly is about to be dissolved.”
“However, the imminent dissolution of the Assembly means I have decided to bring the draft order here today. <BR /> <BR />The grant provides NI Water with the funding to enable it to maintain drinking water supplies and deliver sewerage services.”
“I believe that this order will reinforce the Executive's commitment not to bring in water charging for households, and I thank the Members for their support.”
The complete record
Every one of 1,028 lines we hold for Chris Hazzard, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 13 of 21.
“Under article 7 of the 2015 order, there is a requirement to notify the relevant district council of the proposed exploration, and the council may, within 21 days, issue a direction, if considered appropriate, that permitted development rights under article 3 shall not apply to the development, therefore requiring the submission of an application for planning permission. That remains an important safeguard. In addition, where an environmental impact assessment is applicable based on the details of the proposed development, PD rights cannot apply. It is important to emphasise that the temporary permitted development rights for minerals exploration do not allow the commercial extraction of minerals, including oil and gas.”
“Sorry; I just want to get through this. <BR /> <BR />First, in relation to planning, the work at Woodburn is being carried out within the existing legislative framework for assessing proposals for mineral exploration referred to as permitted development (PD). Existing permitted development rights are provided for mineral exploration by class A of part 16 to the schedule to the Planning (General Permitted Development) Order (Northern Ireland) 2015. That permits development on any land for a period not exceeding four months of the drilling of boreholes, the carrying out of seismic surveys or the making of other excavations for the purpose of mineral exploration. <BR /> <BR />A number of other conditions apply, including the storage of topsoil and restoration of the site.”
“The Department of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs also has a range of responsibilities, mainly through the Northern Ireland Environment Agency, which is responsible for water quality and environmental protection. Its water management unit granted consent under the water order to regulate any potential impacts on surface water and groundwater and, as a result, has implemented a surface water and groundwater monitoring plan. NIEA is also responsible, through the Drinking Water Inspectorate, for ensuring that NI Water's drinking water supply meets regulatory requirements. <BR /> <BR />My Department's primary role is in relation to the associated planning and water responsibilities.”
“I propose to remove permitted development rights for oil and gas exploration. In the future, under my proposals, exploration for oil and gas will require the submission of a planning application and will be subject to the full rigours of the planning process, including environmental impact assessments (EIA) and public consultation. I intend to consult on the legislative change shortly. <BR /> <BR />As I have indicated, given the nature of the Woodburn development, responsibility cuts across a number of Departments. The work is being carried out under a licence awarded by the former Department of Enterprise, Trade and Investment, which is now the Department for the Economy. The initial licence was granted for five years in March 2011, and a further five years was approved earlier this year.”
“<BR /> <BR />Minerals are an important natural resource, and their exploitation makes an essential contribution to the North's prosperity and well-being. The minerals extraction industry provides employment, often in rural areas, and produces a wide range of products for a variety of purposes in construction, agriculture and industry. I want to facilitate sustainable minerals development and balance that with the need to protect the environment and ensure compliance with all environmental regulations. As a result, I have decided to propose a change to the current legislation, policy and procedures in relation to mineral exploration.”
“I am committed to ensuring that it delivers for local communities and the region as a whole and that the planning system addresses the present as well as the long-term future needs of our society. <BR /> <BR />The planning system should, where possible, facilitate development, but it must not compromise on environmental standards. Sustainable development is at the heart of our planning system, and it is clear that there will be many instances where it is necessary to balance competing social, economic and environmental interests. Whilst the planning process may not always be able to reconcile competing interests, transparency, fairness and accountable decision-making are fundamental to ensuring that all interests are taken into account.”
“If commercial extraction were to take place in the future, it would be subject to the full planning application process, environmental assessments and assessment of all potential impacts, including the impacts on water supply, the environment, tourism and local communities. <BR /> <BR />Given the nature of this development and the issues raised, responsibility cuts across a number of Departments, including the Department for the Economy, the Department of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs, and my own Department for Infrastructure. As Minister with responsibility for planning, I aim to continue to improve our planning system and to make sure that it is effective and efficient and that it operates in the wider public interest.”
“I thank the Members who tabled the motion and welcome the opportunity to speak on an important issue that has attracted significant concern and public interest. I have been very conscious of the concerns of residents in Antrim and further afield about the exploratory drilling at Woodburn Forest. <BR /> <BR />The ongoing development at Woodburn involves InfraStrata carrying out an exploratory borehole at Woodburn Forest to understand the subsurface geology and identify areas where there may be the potential for oil and gas deposits. Those drilling operations are not for the unconventional extraction of hydrocarbons. <BR /> <BR />At the outset, I assure Members that the work is restricted to exploration only and for a limited period.”
“Glacaim le hoifig an Aire Infreastructúir. I confirm that I am willing to take up the office of Minister for Infrastructure, and I affirm the terms of the Pledge of Office as set out in schedule 4 to the Northern Ireland Act.”
“I thank the Committee staff for all their help. As I said, it has been a great privilege to work on this.”
“Our classrooms are changing all the time. More and more, we are moving away from books towards iPads and other good electronic tablets. That is what we need to be aware of. More and more children are engaging in this. The Safeguarding Board is doing an awful lot of work on this, but it was important that it was included in the Bill. <BR /> <BR />Finally, as the Minister said, the critical step now is engaging with the education sector as a whole around the guidance and taking that forward. It is going to be the dissemination of good practice and everybody talking to each other, learning the lessons, looking at where things are done well, looking at how we can roll that out across the board and deciding what sort of guidance is best to use. I finish by congratulating the Minister and the Department for seeing this through.”
“It is important to record all these incidents so that we can provide the data to those who set policies in future years on what we need to do next to take another step forward. If we cannot eradicate it entirely, we can make the classroom an even safer place to be. <BR /> <BR />Two things, finally. On the issue of cyberbullying and the notion of the classroom, I welcome the fact that the Department and the Minister were flexible and took on board some of the Committee's comments. I do not think it was ever within the gift of this piece of legislation to deal effectively with cyberbullying as a whole. However, it at least gives a platform to schools to say, "Be cognisant of this issue. Take it on board". Boards of governors now have to discuss it, so let us see what sort of ideas they come up with to tackle it.”
“It was a great privilege to sit on the Committee and work on this Bill and on the two previous Bills. Congratulations to the Minister and the Department for seeing them through. <BR /> <BR />There is no need to labour on the dangers and effects of bullying; we know how lethal it can be. The same applies when we talk about how schools deal with it. It is fair to say that the majority of schools have good systems in place; they know that it is a very important issue and want to deal with it. Taking the words of the Minister, it is not so much about having a revolution on this, it is about disseminating good practice and providing a good and inclusive definition of bullying, a clear framework and a recording system.”
“<BR /> <BR />I am not sure whether the Minister will frame copies of this Bill and the other two for good keeping in future years, but it is important to congratulate him and the Department for safely seeing through in the last number of months what I think are three very important pieces of legislation that really will make a difference to young people's lives. <BR /> <BR />I was very fortunate to be speaking with schoolchildren earlier, and they were asking questions about we do during the day. I explained that today we were going to speak on this Bill, and they were all very interested because bullying, of course, is a live issue in schools. Their teachers were also interested. That helped to bring to life what we do here. This is the last day of plenary business, but the Bill is a perfect example of what we should be doing.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I welcome this opportunity to speak. Similar to the Chair, at the outset, I thank the Committee staff and the Clerk for all the support and guidance that they have given us on not just this Bill but, as the Chair said, the SEN Bill and the Shared Education Bill, which we also worked on in recent months. The work that they do to go through each of these and to provide support to the Committee is much needed. I put on record my thanks to Peter and his team for that.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. I welcome the opportunity to speak on the two amendments. As has been outlined by the Minister, they are rather technical in nature, so I will not rehearse all the arguments. <BR /> <BR />It is right and proper, especially when we look at amendment No 2, that we tidy up the Bill and remove inconsistencies. Amendment No 1 perhaps has a wee bit more meat on its bones in that it brings additional clarity and a slight refinement in language, which is to be welcomed. On the whole, I join stakeholders and schools who are eagerly awaiting the tools and the focus that the Bill will place on addressing bullying.”
“Go raibh maith agat. On that, are we going to ensure that an equal number of opportunities are open to young women? Obviously, there is a need to address gender imbalance in construction apprenticeships specifically.”
“We will support the Minister's amendments and oppose those in the names of the two other Members.”
“The Minister and the Member both previously outlined that the inclusion of the word "other" removes the provision that shared education is more than just simply about Catholics and Protestant than might have been the intention. Therefore, it dilutes the policy intent of the Bill to the extent that it is sloppy legislation, and we should stay away from it. <BR /> <BR />As was outlined beforehand, I do not think that the Bill is the place for amendment Nos 8, 10 and 11. If, as Mr Weir said, the review makes recommendations around those issues, that is when we should look at it again. The 1989 Order is clear; this provision is already provided for, so I do not think that this is the place to do it. I am happy to leave it there, a Cheann Comhairle.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I welcome the opportunity to speak on the Bill at Further Consideration Stage. I find myself in the peculiar situation in which I almost want to agree entirely with the Committee Chair. I will keep my comments brief, nevertheless. As the Chair has just outlined, although in his position as DUP spokesperson for education, we too, on this side of the House, will support the Minister's amendments while opposing those of the other Members, for more or less the exact reasons that have been outlined. <BR /> <BR />There was a lot of tic-tacking on the issue of religious belief. Amendment No 14 is in accordance with best practice in legislation and is in keeping with the purpose of the Bill.”
“This will go a long way. As the Chair asked, will it eradicate all forms of bullying everywhere? Unfortunately, it will not. However, it creates a great platform for schools and boards of governors to deal with it. I look forward to the further comments.”
“To a certain extent, amendment No 11 is pointless and should not be in the Bill. The guidance to deal with this will be developed at later stage through consultation with parents and stakeholders. On amendment No 13, for me, the very point of the list is that it is not exhaustive. If we are suggesting that there needs to be a mechanism to amend it somehow, we nearly give expression to the perception that the list is there to be amended. For me, it is not an exhaustive list, but it is inclusive. However, we will not push it to a Division. <BR /> <BR />On the whole, this is good news for schools, parents and kids. It goes without saying that education can be great for empowering our young people, but a school can be a horrible place for a young person suffering bullying. Anywhere can be a horrible place to be if you are suffering bullying.”
“On that point, as the Chair also did, I congratulate the Department and the Minister for working with the Committee through various sittings to get a very robust Bill. I think that it will be celebrated by parents, schools and the various stakeholders whom we met. It provides a good platform to build consistent policy on tackling bullying in all our schools. <BR /> <BR />The same goes for amendment Nos 7 and 8. Amendment No 7 is the stronger. Were it not for amendment No 7, I would have thought that amendment No 8 was fine. However, having looked at the difference in amendment No 7 and the rationale behind it, I am happy to go with amendment No 7. It is right that amendment No 7 is the stronger. <BR /> <BR />We do not agree with amendment Nos 11 and 13, but we will not push it to a Division.”
“Amendment No 2 from Mrs Overend just goes too far by creating a grey area where the waters get muddied, and where I would feel for the teacher having to step outside. I understand the power imbalance in theory, but in the real world in schools it would be hard for teachers to apply that. Academically, we could debate all the stuff about power balances, but, in the classroom or wherever it may be, the teacher needs to be able to rely on good, sound legislation that will not have the school in courtrooms with difficulties. That is why we will have to divide on amendment No 2. <BR /> <BR />As the Chair said, amendment Nos 3, 4, 5, 9, 10 and 12 are very technical amendments, some of them on shared education, which was a good point raised about the extent of the entitlement framework.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. The House will be glad to know that I was never taught by Mr Weir, so this should be short and relatively painless. The Chair of the Committee and the Minister before him covered a lot of the detail at great length, so I will provide the executive summary of my thoughts. <BR /> <BR />We will oppose amendment No 2. While we disagree with amendment Nos 11 and 13, we do not find enough in them to disagree to the same extent. A large part of this goes back to what the Chair said about good practice and consistency. That is the hallmark of the Bill; indeed, I think that it will be celebrated for providing a platform for good practice and consistency in and around policy development and disseminating that through schools.”
“No. I am coming to an end. We want to see dialogue in a neutral environment and a public consultation through OFMDFM. That is the place to deal with this.”
“No, I will not give way. <BR /> <BR />I do not see that as being the right way to go. As I said, there has been no scrutiny and no examination in a neutral environment of the consequences that may roll out from it. That is what we want to see when we are looking at the issue. I say to Mr Kennedy and Mrs Overend that that is the reason. This is not a flip-flop from a previous education debate. The Education Minister has written to OFMDFM, as far as I am aware, to take the issue on. That is why we are opposing it. This Bill is not the place to be discussing the issue.”
“I think that Members are looking for pot luck. They see this as an opportunity to attach something to a Bill to get it through. I do not see that as —”
“I take the Member's points on board to a certain extent but, on the gender pay stuff, the regulations would involve public consultation and scrutiny. That would not have been the case with this, because it is different; it is delicate equality legislation that should be dealt with through OFMDFM. Let me say it on record: I am for the repealing of this legislation, but I want to see it done in the appropriate fashion. I and my party do not believe that this is the appropriate forum to do it. It is as simple as that. <BR /> <BR />There are a few things to touch on. There is a growing concern in this House — the Minister himself has touched on this — that issues are being attached to Bills that they should not be attached to. This is a case in point; the repeal needs to be dealt with through OFMDFM.”
“One second. We are talking about repealing equality legislation here. Sinn Féin has repeatedly said that the time has come to look at this very carefully and see if it is needed any more. I am certainly of the view, as are members of my party, that it is no longer the time for the measure, but we want to see the process being followed through properly. We want to see a proper public consultation through OFMDFM, who are in charge of it. We do not want to see it latched onto the side of a different Bill, which is unfortunately what is happening here. Members can shake their heads, but those are the facts about what we are dealing with. This is being attached to a Bill that is the responsibility of a Department that does not have the authority for it. That is exactly —”
“I thank the Member for her input. I referred directly to Committee scrutiny. This issue has not been in front of the OFMDFM Committee for scrutiny. This is very delicate equality legislation we are talking about.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I rise to oppose amendment Nos 26 and 27 and perhaps shine a bit of light on the situation. I came into the Chamber about halfway through the debate on the previous group, and it appears that we and the Ulster Unionists have swapped roles. Instead of the Ulster Unionists decrying a lack of consultation and Committee scrutiny, we are perhaps the ones saying that now. For this very delicate equality — Mr Swann is shaking his head but he in particular decried a lack of public consultation on a certain issue —”
“I thank the Member for giving way. The Member said that the controlled sector does not use this veto. Does the Member accept that no one uses it?”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for his answer. I want to thank him for giving special acknowledgement to the very rural needs, nature and aspects of South Down, which are why the Downpatrick court exists. I wish the Health Minister would do likewise. Perhaps there is the potential for a refurbishment grant or some sort of resource to be made available to bring Downpatrick courthouse up to the standard that we expect.”
“I thank the Minister for his answer and look forward to the consultation. Does he agree that the consultation provides an opportunity to tackle the issue, especially when so many rural clubs have smaller stands that could be part of the changes?”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. As has been outlined by the Minister and the Chair of the OFMDFM Committee, these are logical amendments to redundant provisions — clause 2(1) and schedule 2 — which need to be removed as the Public Services Ombudsman Bill progresses. I support both amendments.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Without naming the schools, we have heard about the super-mixed school type a few times today. Would the Member acknowledge that, if we look at social deprivation or social class in some of the super-mixed schools, we see that the number of pupils on free schools meals is sometimes negligible? It is 1% or 2% or maybe as high as 5%. If we are talking about community background, it is fair enough to say that they are super-mixed schools, but there is a bigger scheme to go on. <BR /> <BR />Will you outline how a single provider or school can share? What exactly would be shared if it was just a single school taking part in the process?”
“In line with both those strategic policy documents, I believe that the Bill should include the new clause as outlined in amendment No 15. <BR /> <BR />A Cheann Comhairle, I am happy to leave it there. As I outlined, my colleagues will touch on the rest of the amendments. I am happy to support the Bill at this stage.”
“My amendment does not include a retrospective review. There is an argument that it would be costly and there is a question over the extent to which it would be successful or worthwhile. It would be time-consuming, as DE officials recognised at the Committee. T:BUC makes a number of commitments to develop shared services, including:”
“The ministerial advisory group's report stated that they:”
“It not only complements the Bill, it complements amendment No 15 from Sinn Féin. <BR /> <BR />Crucially, the purposes clause will help to embed shared education throughout the Department, its policies and its programme of work instead of being a fixed-term project. I do not believe that shared education is, in the eyes of the Department, a fixed-term project, but the clause's provisions will be beneficial. <BR /> <BR />At the outset, I touched on amendment No 9 from Mr McCallister. Our amendment No 15, whilst largely the same, widens the scope of amendment No 9 and is that wee bit stronger. The ministerial advisory group on advancing shared education and T:BUC recommend screening and proofing to ensure that the sharing is maximised. That was the basis upon which amendment No 15 was envisaged.”
“I am willing to listen to the different arguments, but, as it stands, I do not agree with the Member. <BR /> <BR />At the start, I touched on amendment No 5, which concerns the purposes clause, namely clause 1. That is an important amendment because clause 1 sets the overall context for the Shared Education Bill: it will guide shared education policy. It would be interesting to hear the arguments against the amendment. Crucially, it includes the need to promote an efficient and effective use of resources. If this is about bringing communities together and moving the process of educational development along, it is also about the effective and efficient use of resources, which will be a key issue in the years ahead. So, it is important that amendment No 5 is made.”
“I thank the Member for his intervention. As I have outlined from the start, I have sympathy for the argument he makes, but I am wary of the unintended consequences. I have no doubt that it is a topic that the Minister will talk to at length later today, and perhaps he can go into how some of the unintended consequences would have an effect on budget lines, which would not be the will of the House. <BR /> <BR />A duty will wrap the Department in unwelcome legal obligations around spending commitments et cetera that may take this down a different path from the one intended. So, again, if the power is not adequate, amendment No 15 strengthens it. Shared education is a concept, and you are right that a flexible approach in different parts of the North is what is needed.”
“The Chair mentioned the example in Omagh, and we will support amendment Nos 13 and 14. We will also support our own amendment No 15. <BR /> <BR />My colleagues may touch on the rest of the amendments, but looking at the opposition to amendment Nos 1, 8 and 11 in relation to amending the power to the duty, as I touched upon at the start, the growth in the concept of shared education has been organic. Different communities are moving at different paces. To get the best out of the concept, the Department needs to be proactive yet sympathetic to local needs and dynamics. It needs to be determined yet flexible when considering those needs. In the Bill, there is a power rather than a duty, and with amendment No 15 the Department will be able to do that.”
“The purposes clause, which I will touch on in a moment, adds a certain amount of clarity and strength to the Bill, so we will be supporting amendment No 5. We will, however, oppose amendment No 9. Amendment No 15 widens the scope and is a wee bit stronger than amendment No 9, but is along much the same lines. The regulations are a bit prescriptive, so we will be opposing amendment Nos 10 and 12.”
“We need to be very wary of the unintended consequences that such a duty on the Department might have. I am not instinctively against strengthening the legislation to the extent that the Department will have a duty; it is just a wariness of unintended consequences. That is why I think amendment No 15 goes somewhat further than the power as it originally sat, but not quite as far as a duty to encourage and facilitate. <BR /> <BR />We will be opposing amendment Nos 1, 8 and 11 around amending the power to the duty. We will be opposing John McCallister's amendment No 2 around the definition. The Chair has outlined succinctly why. When it comes to amendment Nos 3, 4, 6 and 7 around religious clarification, we will be supporting amendment Nos 6 and 7 and opposing amendment Nos 3 and 4.”
“<BR /> <BR />At the crux of this today and the entire debate around shared education is the notion that shared education, in some instances, has been pioneered for years — for decades, in some parts of the North. For other communities, it is a fairly new initiative that they are just getting on board with. There are still those today who are learning about shared education and what it means. It is a very delicate process; we should remember that. If we stand here today perhaps in opposition to the idea of a duty on the Department, it is because of the idea that there may be unintended consequences of the process. I do not think that anybody wishes for those, but we need to be mindful of them. <BR /> <BR />Unlike Irish-medium or integrated education, shared education is a concept. It is a process in itself, not a particular type of school.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I welcome the opportunity to speak on the Bill today. From the outset, I echo the words of the Chair, who has just spoken: the divisions today will perhaps be out of necessity because some of the amendments are mutually exclusive. The final destination is quite agreeable between the sides of the House today; it is perhaps the method by which we get there that there has been some discussion and disagreement about, which is a positive. <BR /> <BR />I thank the Committee Clerk and his staff, who provided first-class support to the Committee while working through this. I also thank the stakeholders and organisations that, in big numbers, engaged with the process from the start, specifically the schools that shared their experiences of how they have been dealing with shared education.”
“Again, it is a legislative toolbox, and let us hope that the secondary legislation to follow will equip schools, parents and children to be able to gain the sort of education qualifications and success that they want.”
“<BR /> <BR />Another big positive out of all of this, which leads on from Mr Agnew's Children's Services Co-operation Bill, is the building of cooperation between DE and the Department of Health. I think that can only be a positive thing, and I have no doubt that the Committee — perhaps I will be fortunate enough to sit on the next Education Committee as well — will keep a close eye on how that develops and where we need to take it to in the future. <BR /> <BR />The focus on mediation and the development of personal learning plans is a very positive reform also. On the whole, this is a legislative toolbox — I think that is the best way to look at it — with guidelines and secondary legislation to come. There is a real platform here for excellent reform. That is what we have seen.”