Chris Hazzard
South Down · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“The order I am bringing forward extends the power for my Department to pay a grant to NI Water in lieu of domestic water charges. The current powers to pay a grant will expire on 31 March 2017, and the Water and Sewerage Services Act 2016, which was passed by the Assembly in January last year, provided the power to extend that date by an…”
“I thank those Members who have commented on the motion this evening. Some general issues and several specific points have been raised. <BR /> <BR />I will turn first to Mr Farry's question: why, for the period of time?”
“I am delighted that the Alliance argument around water charges does not chime with more of the electorate and that the particular reason does not hold sway, because this Executive certainly are not for turning on this issue. There will be no water charges for domestic customers, and we have ensured that.”
“<BR /> <BR />The second point that Mr Farry raised was around governance issues and the way forward. They are all issues that I have given thought to and that, I have no doubt, would have featured in the mandate in the time ahead, but we are not at that point today. The Assembly is about to be dissolved.”
“However, the imminent dissolution of the Assembly means I have decided to bring the draft order here today. <BR /> <BR />The grant provides NI Water with the funding to enable it to maintain drinking water supplies and deliver sewerage services.”
“I believe that this order will reinforce the Executive's commitment not to bring in water charging for households, and I thank the Members for their support.”
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“Absolutely, yes. I declare an interest, in that I am a regular user of the Lagan towpath in particular. It has great heritage and also great potential for the future. You only have to go on to it at the weekend to see that it is absolutely buzzing. It is like a high street in the town. It is great to see. The long-term vision of the Lagan linking into the restoration of the Ulster canal and even further is a project that is worth good attention in the years ahead.”
“The consultation will seek views on a number of improvements to the greenway, including lighting part of the route. Following consultation on the network, consideration will be given to whether lighting is appropriate on parts of the route, taking into account environmental concerns and the needs of the adjacent properties and neighbours.”
“I thank the Member for his ongoing appetite and enthusiasm for the issue and for active travel in general. I am more than happy to meet the guys there. That has been a great success. I should put on record that I apologise that I was in the Chamber and could not get to the launch of C S Lewis Square. It is a fantastic venture, and I wish the guys involved in that all the best. <BR /> <BR />The strategic plan for greenways refers to guidance on engineering standards for greenways, and more-detailed information is included in the AECOM and Sustrans report, which is available on the Department's website. My Department will shortly undertake a public consultation on the Belfast bicycle network, which includes the Comber greenway.”
“Page 23 of the strategy outlines a number of 10-year targets, including to have 75% of the primary network and 25% of the larger secondary network delivered by 2026. I have also set a target of increasing the number of journeys on the greenways network and the national cycle network to 50 million per annum by 2026. On 9 November, I also announced grant funding to councils for 20 greenway feasibility studies. Those studies will lay the groundwork for the development of detailed plans and designs so that councils will be in a position to move as quickly as possible to start construction.”
“I launched 'Exercise Explore Enjoy', my strategic plan for greenways on 9 November. The plan sets out my vision and a framework for a more strategic and ambitious programme to develop a greenway network across the whole of the North. Greenways can make a huge difference to the daily life of people by providing the opportunity to enjoy safe and easy access to fresh air and exercise; by encouraging more people to commute to work by foot or bicycle and more children to walk or cycle to school; and by providing an accessible leisure resource for local people and visitors alike. <BR /> <BR />The strategy outlines a longer-term plan for the development of a primary network of around 400 kilometres and a secondary network of around 600 kilometres.”
“I would love to extend the 20 mph zone to everywhere. I have to start somewhere, and, strategically, the areas of high priority are the, I think, 157 schools that currently sit on roads, especially rural roads, where the national speed limit applies. Again, the message has been key. Over the past week, there has been the tragic news of fatalities. We cannot engineer out some of the tragic news. More than 95% of road traffic collisions, some of which involve fatalities, are due to human error. We cannot end accidents and collisions simply by extending 20 mph zones. Doing that can have an impact surely, but we need to get the message out to drivers that they should pay attention to their speed, should forget about the phone and should never, ever drink and drive. It is important that we get that message out.”
“No, it is not something that I have given any consideration to. I am not opposed to devolving powers to local councils; a range of powers between local councils and central government can be a good and healthy thing. When it comes to this, I am personally responsible for it, so I am more than happy to consider other facilities, such as leisure or community facilities, where it could be done. I was recently at a GAA club that is located on a rural road, much like a school and with similar numbers, and if we could come to similar arrangements, it would be fine. The Department can be just as sensitive to those demands as local councils.”
“Yes, if we have any sort of solution that involves a partnership or inter-agency approach, it is to be welcomed, not just from a financial perspective but because, when you have more people working together with a single destination in mind, it is beneficial. I would probably give a guarded welcome to voluntary one-way systems. However, I urge caution because whatever we do — it goes back to the roundels etc that we use — it has to have a basis in law. It is important to ensure that if, God forbid, there is some sort of accident, we have not created a grey area where we do not know who is right and who is wrong. We need to ensure that there is a sound legal basis, whichever way we go forward.”
“I thank the Member for his questions. As good as I have become at retaining information, I apologise that I do not have the specific information for those particular schools in the Member's constituency. Again, if he corresponds, I am more than happy to get back to him. Especially with regard to rural primary schools on roads where the national speed limit applies, I am actively seeking ways in which we can address their needs as soon as possible. There are approximately 150 of them, so it is something that I am very keen to do, and I want to move on it as soon as possible.”
“It is fair to say that we need to target limited resources initially on schools on roads that present the greatest risk to the safety of children. There is clear evidence that the higher the speed a vehicle travels at, the greater the severity of the injury to a pedestrian. Research shows that, for every one mile an hour reduction in speed, there is a 5% reduction in collisions. We also have to consider that rural schools are frequently located on unlit roads, which further adds to the hazards that schoolchildren are exposed to, especially in the dark winter days. Many schools in urban areas are already located in traffic-calming zones, where traffic speeds are already reduced to well below 20 mph due to the self-enforcing effects of speed-reducing features, such as road humps and crossing facilities.”
“I am particularly keen on this approach. However, the cost of providing these initial systems has been significant, with the most recent schemes costing, on average, £50,000 to install. I have therefore asked my officials to consider whether more cost-effective ?solutions are available that would allow us to increase the current level of provision and treat more schools, subject to available funding. I remain committed to continuing to work towards reducing deaths and serious injuries on our roads, especially amongst vulnerable road users such as school children.”
“<BR /> <BR />A more recent innovation has been the development of part-time 20 mph speed limits at schools, especially on roads where the national speed limit applies. The speed limit at these schools is reduced to 20 mph at school opening and closing times during term time.”
“Schoolchildren and young people are amongst the most vulnerable groups using our roads. My Department delivers a wide range of road safety educational activities and engineering initiatives to improve their safety. Various protective engineering interventions have been developed over the years, leading to the production of Transport NI's policy and procedure guide, which traffic engineers can draw from when assessing safety at individual schools. These measures include provision of enhanced signing and road markings; central islands; lay-bys; and traffic-calming features such as road humps. The enhanced signing largely incorporates flashing lights programmed to operate during term times at school opening and closing times.”
“Absolutely. The groups and individuals you met, for many a year, have been doing this work tirelessly themselves. They have a passion for it and the local communities, and, to a large extent, they have been ahead of the curve, so I am more than happy to meet those groups. <BR /> <BR />In my part of the world in south Down, there are activists who regularly plant willow and look to somehow copper-fasten the coast against this. Extensive works have taken place around Rostrevor and Warrenpoint to help this as well. As you say, it is local volunteers in communities who, for a very long time, have been involved in this. Yes, I would be more than happy to work with those people, because, as you say, prevention is certainly better than cure. It is also cheaper than the cure.”
“This is one of the issues that Michelle McIlveen and I will be picking up on. Is there a requirement for legislation? Will it be of use, or will it be a hindrance? Will it be effective in what we want to do over the next number of years? As I say, I do not think we can approach this with wanting to eradicate or somehow end coastal erosion. We cannot but we have to manage it, so that is certainly something that we will be discussing next week.”
“This question is, obviously, about coastal erosion, so I applaud the Member for getting in a question about his own constituency. I do not have that detail to hand. If the Member wants to correspond with me, I am more than happy to reply.”
“I do not think that there necessarily has to be a lead Department. We have two Departments in this Executive that have to deal with these issues. To date, I have met my colleague Michelle McIlveen twice on this issue. We are due to meet again next week, so that is three times in the first six months of this Executive. I think that demonstrates our determination to do something regarding coastal erosion. We cannot stop coastal erosion, but we have to manage its effects, and that is something that, I think, the Agriculture and Environment Minister, Michelle McIlveen, and I are keen to do.”
“The other two flood defences are medium-consequence and inspected every three years or after extreme weather events.”
“I thank the Member for his interest in the issue, which is one that we have discussed at length at separate times. I also thank the Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs Minister, Michelle McIlveen, whom I will meet again next week to discuss the issue. Our officials from both Departments are working tirelessly behind the scenes to compile reports for us to take decisions on the best way forward. <BR /> <BR />Inspections of flood defences are risk-based. The higher the risk of failure, the more frequent the inspection. All but two of the coastal flood defences are very high consequence; ie substantial economic, social or environmental impact if the defence fails. Defences are given a detailed inspection annually or after each extreme weather event.”
“However, it is often difficult to predict where damage will occur.”
“In light of those severe winter storms and tidal surges, a detailed inspection of the road protective works was completed during 2014. In addition, an extensive survey of the coastline around the Ards peninsula, where it abuts the road, was carried out earlier this year. The information from those surveys is being assessed and will inform the prioritisation of necessary repair works. <BR /> <BR />In recent years, almost £2 million of capital investment has been spent on the installation of new protective works along the coast road in Antrim. That includes £800,000 of work completed during 2016 at seven sites. I am very conscious that prevention is better than cure, so my Department seeks to identify areas where damage may be caused by the ravages of the sea to target our resources.”
“There are no major improvement works planned for the designated coastal defences, but there are ongoing works — such as those in east Belfast to protect properties in the Sydenham area that are at risk from a tidal inundation — that will add to the length of designated defences. A major study has also commenced to determine how to increase the standard of protection against a tidal flood event in Belfast city centre. Again, that may add to our designated coastal defences. <BR /> <BR />My Department also has to maintain its road and railway network assets and protect them from the effects of coastal erosion and coastal flooding. Storm surges and high tides after Christmas 2013 caused extensive damage to such protective works along the Antrim and Down coast roads.”
“I thank the Member for that question, but I will provide some clarification from the outset. In addition to formal or designated coastal defences, there is infrastructure, such as roads and railways, along our coast that performs a coastal protection function. In most cases, that was not the original purpose of their construction. <BR /> <BR />DFI's Rivers Agency manages a network of designated coastal defences, which are approximately 26 kilometres in length. Those designated coastal defences are designed to protect against coastal flooding and are subject to annual condition surveys carried out by the Rivers Agency.”
“As I outlined in answer to a previous question, my Department has four Executive flagship priorities. Your party will also have agreed to those priorities, as they were set out in the previous Executive, and I have embraced them. Unless the Alliance Party has changed its position and is now opposed to the development of the A5 and A6, the development of the Belfast transport hub and the rapid transit project that is coming live to Belfast next year, the Member will know full well what criteria were used.”
“Absolutely. In infrastructure terms, there has been a regional imbalance for far too long in the North. That is why, since coming into post, I have been very careful to say that I want to address that infrastructure deficit. I have also gone to great lengths to say that road safety will be a priority of mine. As bad as congestion is — we absolutely need to tackle the growing congestion in and around the York Street area — people are dying in their scores on roads such as the A5. In the last decade alone, close to 50 people have been killed in road traffic accidents on that stretch of road. When I come to strategic priorities, there could be nothing more strategic than saving lives.”
“Yes, absolutely. Only last week — maybe it was the week before; I cannot remember — I stressed the point that the decision to proceed allows my Department to go out and, as the independent inspector's report mentioned, engage with communities such as those that you have just outlined, so that the proposals going forward do not adversely affect them. There are final amendments to detailed design in and around, for example, the situation regarding the McGurk's bar monument and Little Georges Street and antisocial behaviour under the bridge. There is work that my Department can engage in, and I would be more than happy to extend that to communities around the project.”
“I thank the Member for the supplementary. Yes, I have established an alternative financing unit in my Department to look at all available streams, not just for this project but for all projects as we go forward. I have somewhere in the region of £5 billion worth of projects sitting on my desk that we could proceed with. However, I will have in the region of only about £1 billion to £1·5 billion over the next number of years. If we are to progress with the schemes that I think are important for society, it will be important that I look across society and at all possible means by which to deliver them, but we need to do so in a way that is effective for the public purse. In recent times, methods have been used that were not effective for the public purse, and, today, Departments still suffer the consequences of bad financial decisions.”
“I thank the Member for his supplementary. It will be for the Executive to come to a decision on how the £250 million is divvied out. Of course, the £250 million that the Member mentions is for a range of infrastructure and capital projects, some of which, I have no doubt, my Department will be able to deliver, although I presume that the money will also be used for schools, hospitals and new homes.”
“<BR /> <BR />There are huge demands on the infrastructure budget, and they are all competing. It is my job and that of my Department to put our priorities in place so that we can deliver as much as we can with the finances that are available to us and to do so strategically in the years ahead. <BR /> <BR />In light of the Chancellor’s autumn statement, I will continue to work with my Executive colleagues to do all that I can to deliver this important scheme, as well the Executive's flagship projects.”
“Members will recall that I recently announced the notice to proceed with the scheme. This will allow my officials to begin consultations with key stakeholders, including the local community. The scheme remains a priority for me, and I am committed to doing all that I can to deliver it in the current financial context, working with the Finance Minister and, of course, other Executive colleagues. <BR /> <BR />As I have already said to the House, the scheme has to fit within a programme of works, and we need to do more to ensure not just that we have the funding to start the project but that we have funding in place until the end. Therefore, I will need to consider the funding for the project together with other priorities as part of my budget 2017-2021 considerations before deciding whether to award the York Street interchange contract.”
“The NI Direct online service for the reporting of street light faults and potholes is very successful. I think that we need to send the message out to get it reported. It may take a number of weeks to get round to it, but it will go on a work programme, and we will get there. As Mr Agnew pointed out, we need a bit of realism. We need to understand that the teams of guys out doing this are very small now because of the voluntary exit scheme and because of a lack of resources. We get them on the works programme. We will get to it. It may not be tomorrow or the day after, but we will get to it.”
“Regarding grass cutting, I can confirm that two cuts have now been completed, along with grass on sight lines, as required for road safety reasons. <BR /> <BR />In summary, I again thank the Member for generating this discussion and for giving me the opportunity to highlight the difficulties facing my Department in delivering a road maintenance service in general, and in particular to his constituency of North Down. I reiterate that my Department will continue to undertake comprehensive inspection and maintenance activities, in line with the available funding, for the benefit of all road users in North Down. I will continue to bid for additional funding for road and footway maintenance activities to improve the infrastructure. <BR /> <BR />I have one final point to make. The issue of online services was raised. I agree entirely.”
“Despite the financial constraints, roads have been, and still are being, inspected as normal. However, patching repairs have had to be prioritised as far as resources permit. <BR /> <BR />In 2015, owing to the Department not being in a position to provide a schedule of work as a result of the financial constraints, the external contractor who provides services such as weed treatment and gully cleaning had to lay off much of his workforce. That created difficulties with the delivery of weed control and gully-cleaning services. I am pleased to advise Members that funding is now in place, and the external contractor recently completed a programme of chemical weed treatment and has now commenced scheduled gully cleaning.”
“The aim of that £10 million initiative is essentially a road improvement package to stop the deterioration and to repair severe defects on the local rural road network. I can advise Members that the Ards and North Down Borough Council area was allocated half a million pounds of that funding. <BR /> <BR />On resource funding for the delivery of routine maintenance functions such as patching, grass cutting, weed treatment and gully cleaning, Members will be aware of the difficulties faced by Transport NI over the last two years. A limited service was in operation because of financial constraints, with the budget available being provided to the Department's internal workforce, and to external contractors where our internal workforce did not have the capacity.”
“<BR /> <BR />I am pleased to inform Members that those matters have now been resolved, and Transport NI has, in recent months, undertaken three major resurfacing schemes at Ballymiscaw Road, Holywood; Ballyrobert Road, Crawfordsburn; and Rathgael Road roundabout. The total cost is £636,000. In addition, a combined footway reconstruction and carriageway resurfacing scheme is being carried out in the Morston Park area of Bangor at a cost of £150,000. I will continue to bid in monitoring rounds to enhance structural maintenance funding during this year to invest further in the road network. <BR /> <BR />Following June monitoring, which delivered additional funding for capital structural maintenance activities, I announced the rural roads initiative in the Assembly on 28 June.”
“That funding is being used to deliver significant road improvements in 2016-17 in the division, including in the North Down constituency. I should point out that, as Members mentioned, in 2015-16, limited capital works in the form of resurfacing were carried out in North Down because of contractual difficulties in the awarding of a new contract, including a legal challenge to the Department. That meant that the awarding of the resurfacing contract was delayed, and therefore only schemes ordered before the expiry of the previous contract were delivered. Those included schemes at the A2 Bangor Road, Bangor; Abbey Street, Bangor; and Ballymiscaw, Holywood. Court proceedings were prolonged such that Transport NI was unable to award the new contract until August.”
“<BR /> <BR />In general, each Transport NI maintenance section office maintains a priority list of resurfacing schemes for its area, and the list is determined from a range of indicators, such as surface condition, defect numbers and traffic volumes. The section offices use that information, as well as visual inspections, to decide the best use of the available resources in their area. The priority list reflects current road maintenance needs in the area, and some degree of flexibility is therefore necessary to address any changes to the structural integrity of the roads network. <BR /> <BR />The current capital structural maintenance budget for southern division is £20 million, which includes additional in-year funding resulting from the outcome of June and October monitoring rounds.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Ards and North Down Borough Council area is allocated funding for structural and routine maintenance on the same basis as other councils, using indicators such as road mileage, structural condition and population. To put that into perspective, the council area has a total public road length of around 1,100 kilometres out of a divisional total of nearly 8,000 kilometres. I should explain, however, that yearly allocations vary to reflect funding pressures in section areas and are also influenced by specific allocations for high-priority works, such as trunk road resurfacing schemes and coastal defence repairs. On that basis, it can be assumed that no section will receive a fixed percentage of the available allocation each year.”
“<BR /> <BR />The independently established structural maintenance funding plan, which Members will be aware of, recommends an investment of some £140 million a year, 85% of which is capital to maintain the structural integrity of our road network. The current funding available to my Department for roads capital and resource maintenance is £81 million, significantly short of that requirement. In distributing the available resources for road maintenance, allocations are made by my Department to the four Transport NI divisions on the basis of need, using a range of weighted indicators tailored to each maintenance activity, such as resurfacing, patching, gully emptying or grass cutting. Divisions also use a range of indicators when apportioning across council areas to ensure, as far as is possible, an equitable distribution of funding.”
“Since I came into post, I have said that we need to look at different revenue-raising options, but those have to make sense, they have to be fair and they cannot punish the public purse in the long run. I am willing to do that. <BR /> <BR />I go back to the point that roads and housing are the big issues in North Down. It is the same in South Down and right across the area. I was in the Carntogher/Slaughtneil area in south Derry last week, and there were potholes big enough to dip sheep in. There is absolutely no doubt that it is an issue across the board, and we simply do not have enough money. I want to dispel the notion of discrimination, and you will certainly see none of that from me over the next five years.”
“It is not a case of discrimination; it is a case of equity. I think that that is borne out. <BR /> <BR />My next point reflects Mr Agnew and Mr Chambers's comments. I think that the majority of MLAs have been out taking down street light numbers and looking at grass; we have all been doing it for years. There is no doubt that the Department does not have adequate resources to deliver the sort of services that we want. I do not think that anybody in the House would argue that we have enough money to get on with the job. There are simply not enough resources to do the sort of things that we want to do. Mr Agnew is 100% right: we will have to look at where we get the money. Can we get more money?”
“<BR /> <BR />The notion of equality, to me, is a notion of equity, and I think that the statistics bear that out. I was just doing the figures, and, for example, Ards and North Down have 15% of the entire roads in the southern division, yet receive 20% of structural funding. In my area of Newry, Mourne and Down, we have 40% of the roads but receive only 35% of the funding. Caitríona Ruane and I could come to the Chamber and, perhaps more legitimately, claim that some sort of discrimination is ongoing, but that is simply not the case. If we separate Ards and North Down, we see that North Down has 5% of the overall divisional roads; Ards has 10%. That is why, Mr Dunne, in your figures, there is the one third:two thirds split in an awful lot of the projects — that is how it will balance out.”
“I thank the Member for securing the Adjournment debate. I also thank the four Members who have stayed to discuss it. I will quickly start with a few points before I get into, as they say, the meat and bones. <BR /> <BR />It would be proper to put something on the record from the start. Perhaps the Member who secured the debate was not alluding to it, but he gave the impression that recent responses to Assembly questions for written answer had, in his words, confirmed a practice of discrimination against North Down. I absolutely refute that, certainly for the six months that I have been in position. I probably should say on the record that your party colleague was the Minister before me, and many of the things that you referred to were from that time. It is only right that we dismiss that idea.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. It is not a case of not wanting to come and see them. If I visited every single street in the land, I would not have time to be in the Chamber or to attend other important events and meetings. It is not a case of not wanting to go; we have to prioritise a very tight diary. I have been in position for only six months. I have five years and have no doubt that I will be out with the Member on a number of occasions.”
“I only wish that I had all the money to deliver all these projects.”
“Our budgets are under serious pressure. They have been for a long number of years, and they look set to be under more pressure in the years ahead. I say to the Member — I know he has colleagues at Westminster now — that we should use our collective power as elected representatives to send the united message that we need to protect our budgets and we need to see stimulus. It is not enough that we see a capital stimulus; we cannot see the constant attack on our resource budgets, and they must let us get on with building regional growth for all our people. <BR /> <BR />As I said, I engage regularly with the CBI and the business community. The message is very clear: as well as projects such as the A5 and the A6, we need serious investment in our water infrastructure and other projects.”
“As the Member has just outlined, we have the A5, the A6 and the other priorities; the list is endless. I engage regularly with the CBI and others and, alongside talking about projects such as the York Street interchange, they talk about the southern relief. More often than not, when it comes to the roads, they talk about the massive investment that is needed in water and waste water infrastructure and energy security, and, obviously, the Minister for the Economy will be dealing with a number of issues there. <BR /> <BR />There are a huge amount of priorities. There are more priorities than we have money for. That is why, when I make reference to the need for the British Treasury to end the wave of austerity that is crippling our budgets, again, this is not scaremongering politics or hissy fits; this is a reality.”
“Absolutely. Obviously, we will go through a tendering process, and the procurement processes are advancing well, as I have outlined. There is no doubt that, when we invest such a serious amount of money into construction works, it has a very good knock-on effect. Every £1 that is invested in construction projects creates a £4 knock-on effect for the local economy. There is no doubt that this project, like many others, will have a knock-on effect, and we will be investing hundreds of million of pounds in the years ahead on these projects. This will have a great effect on the local economy and our local construction industry.”
“The Members might tut, but they know full well what austerity is doing to communities, not just here but throughout Britain. <BR /> <BR />The second point is, and I have touched on this with Members previously, that the assurances talk about projects that are signed off before Brexit. We do not know — we just saw today in the news that the British Cabinet do not even know what is happening — but, in all likelihood, Brexit is going to be at some stage in early 2019. The earliest that I can even apply for any European funding is some point in 2018. It may take a year or it may take months before that is signed off. The uncertainty around this is not imaginary or part of a hissy fit. As I said, I want to progress with this project, but I am not going to put funds into a project that I do not have enough money to complete.”
“I said that there are two parts to this. The first part that we certainly want is an end to the austerity that has been crippling departmental budgets for many years —”