Chris Hazzard
South Down · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“The order I am bringing forward extends the power for my Department to pay a grant to NI Water in lieu of domestic water charges. The current powers to pay a grant will expire on 31 March 2017, and the Water and Sewerage Services Act 2016, which was passed by the Assembly in January last year, provided the power to extend that date by an…”
“I thank those Members who have commented on the motion this evening. Some general issues and several specific points have been raised. <BR /> <BR />I will turn first to Mr Farry's question: why, for the period of time?”
“I am delighted that the Alliance argument around water charges does not chime with more of the electorate and that the particular reason does not hold sway, because this Executive certainly are not for turning on this issue. There will be no water charges for domestic customers, and we have ensured that.”
“<BR /> <BR />The second point that Mr Farry raised was around governance issues and the way forward. They are all issues that I have given thought to and that, I have no doubt, would have featured in the mandate in the time ahead, but we are not at that point today. The Assembly is about to be dissolved.”
“However, the imminent dissolution of the Assembly means I have decided to bring the draft order here today. <BR /> <BR />The grant provides NI Water with the funding to enable it to maintain drinking water supplies and deliver sewerage services.”
“I believe that this order will reinforce the Executive's commitment not to bring in water charging for households, and I thank the Members for their support.”
The complete record
Every one of 1,028 lines we hold for Chris Hazzard, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 14 of 21.
“I think it is no accident that, to a large extent, any issues of politicking or anything else are left totally aside, and the Committee gets on with the good work of scrutinising the Bill and doing what is right. I think that is to be welcomed. <BR /> <BR />What we have now is a legislative framework that is robust and fit for purpose. As the Minister outlined at the start, the principles at the heart of this include placing the child at the centre of the process, supporting the parents through the process, an inclusive ethos, early intervention being key, and building the capacity of schools, boards of governors and school communities to meet the needs of the children. I think that is vital going forward.”
“<BR /> <BR />As the Chair has outlined, the Committee, through engagement with the Minister and the Department, has widened the scope of the Bill, and I think the Bill is better for it. I think of this as an example of good politics and politics working well in this place, and that is a welcome development. I see signs of that with the Addressing Bullying in Schools Bill that the Committee is looking into at the minute. There are parallels. The SEND Bill and the Addressing Bullying In Schools Bill have real, positive, significant, critical reform at their very heart. They are about addressing the real needs of children here and now.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Like the Chair of the Committee, I welcome the opportunity to speak on this Bill and, indeed, the opportunity to speak at this Final Stage. I think this is a very important development. I want to thank the Committee Clerk and support staff. As the Chair of the Committee has outlined, this was, at times, a very complex Bill. We are dealing with very complex issues, and the Committee was very grateful for the support that it was given. We are also grateful to the witnesses, organisations, parents and, indeed, children that we engaged with over time, not just as individual MLAs but as a Committee as a whole. They made this a very worthwhile exercise, and we gleaned so much more information out of it.”
“I thank the Member for his intervention. I think that the points are related, but the Member has taken it in a different direction, and I do not think that you are representing the point that was being made. It was a fair point — that if we are going to look at how we are doing things, it is important that we look at everything in the whole. I will finish there and say that I will be supporting this today.”
“I thank the Member for his comment. I was coming to the end of my speech, but I think that the Member raises an interesting point, and it is an issue that I do not doubt will be discussed in the next mandate. The previous Member talked about the wheels of change turning very slowly, and there are a variety of reasons why that is the case, but it is not always politicians who are the reasons behind why those wheels turn so slowly. However, again, just to recap —”
“Perhaps this is one particular way of taking down some of that scaffolding, while keeping the principles of inclusivity and 1998 at the heart of the process, so I will be supporting this.”
“<BR /> <BR />The other thing that was mentioned was that it is a coalition Government and a coalition agreement that we have set our principles on. It is better to have this come in in 2021 than to have no agreement whatsoever, or for this issue to be passed on further down the line and never to get agreement on it. It is a case of not celebrating, because we have an agreement in place here, it will change in 2021, and parties now have to look at themselves and their different constituencies and what changes they may need to put in place to ensure that diversity and ensure inclusiveness are built in. <BR /> <BR />There has been a lot of talk in years gone by of the "ugly scaffolding" of the Good Friday Agreement and this place ever since.”
“If these changes are going to have a big impact on gender profile, on age profile, maybe ethnic monitories, then for me, in the next few years, it is time for political parties to really take on board some of the changes that they themselves need to make, because it is not just the system that is changing here. All too often, when you look at the demographics of this place — comment has been made that this Chamber is too male, too pale, and too stale — we need to be wary that any changes that we make do not exacerbate that situation. If parties need to adapt over the next few years to meet those needs, then they have time to do so. That is why I think this run-in is something that we need to have.”
“We are going into a different phase now where we need to re-engage with the public, and I think that there is a certain social contract in play here where people want to see a more efficient — certainly in keeping with the principles of 1998, with inbuilt inclusivity and diversity — but certainly a more efficient body up here. <BR /> <BR />There has been some discussion about why 2021. Why not now? When we look at this — Alex Atwood was right — we have to remember why the numbers are here, why we have the system that we have, and it is about inclusivity and diversity.”
“I do not think that this short, simple and very clear Bill is going to tackle all that; a reduction in the number of MLAs, which is what we are discussing today, is not a silver bullet but it will go some way towards tackling that.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I support the Bill, as have others before me. When we are discussing this issue — sometimes, the debate has gone in a certain way — there is a danger of falling into the trap of populism and being seen to do this because there is a feeling out there that we need to get rid of MLAs just for the sake of it. We need to take seriously some of the public commentary around issues of delivery, how the spirit of power-sharing has not been here in the last number of years, the standard of debating and the standard of politics in this part of the world. There is also the lethargic nature of this place and the bloatedness of the system.”
“As things stand now, I am happy to accept accelerated passage.”
“Go raibh maith agat, Cheann Comhairle. I welcome the opportunity to speak here today. Some Members are finding it a bit difficult to stay on topic, so I will be succinct. As outlined by other Members, we should not be accustomed to using accelerated passage, although it is certainly needed for this Bill. Some Members have suggested that we would have plenty of time in the next mandate, but we must remember that, in the past six months, there have been various amounts of instability and, at one point, some people pulled out of the Executive etc. As we do not know exactly where we will be at all times, we should take precautions. It is the right thing to do to ensure that the legislation is passed and is on the books. I look forward to the more extensive conversation that we will have and the discussion of the principles of the Bill.”
“It is not a plant. The Member is shouting "plant" from a sedentary position. As a Member who represents the fishing industry in Ardglass and Kilkeel, I know that the European maritime fisheries fund would go a long way to improving the industry. Those two ports have a specific interest in it. Perhaps the Minister could outline the benefits that that fund could have.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for her statement. It is clear to see that there is an election around the corner, with the TUV and the DUP fighting over the "Leave Europe" stance. Perhaps one of the benefits from Europe on this — the Minister alluded to it in her statement — is the European maritime fisheries fund. Perhaps the Minister could outline what benefits that fund —”
“No. I want to finish on this point. <BR /> <BR />That is what you have to do. If you want to sit at the table with the big boys, let us have some real politics. Let us get away from the calling of names and little integrity. This is a Budget that we are discussing here today. If you do not like what you see in front of you, let us see some alternatives.”
“I thank the Member for his intervention. Perhaps the SDLP is still trying to finalise its prosperity plan. I am not sure. Maybe it has not got round to producing an alternative costed Budget, but that is exactly what has to happen. If you want to be considered as a serious party of Government, you have to produce costed alternatives. That is simply —”
“Again, from what we have heard today, the Ulster Unionist Party is completely light on detail. We have heard absolutely no alternatives. Not one solution has been forwarded today. Not once has it been said, "X is wrong, so we offer you y". That simply does not come into the equation.”
“Colum Eastwood said that it is about choices. Let us have the choices. We are not hearing the choices at all. I noticed that a large number of SDLP members managed to find their way to Dublin at the weekend for the Fianna Fáil ard-fheis. If it were a political party standing for election in the South, and they went into a TV studio and criticised the Budget, the first question that they would be asked is, "Where is your costed alternative?". Never once has the SDLP produced a costed alternative in document form and gone to the media to say, "There's our costed alternative. If you don't like what you're getting from the Executive, there's our costed alternative". The reason is that the SDLP is in the Executive. <BR /> <BR />Mike Nesbitt said that it is light on detail.”
“There has been some criticism around various programmes of late. We are going to have to see a vast improvement. <BR /> <BR />Another area, of course, is revenue raising. This institution is going to have to seriously look at revenue raising. I ask that we follow the principles of targeting revenue raising at those who can pay. It is not going to be enough to simply have a blanket approach and make everyone pay; we are going to have to be innovative and creative when it comes to revenue raising. At the end of the day, if austerity from Westminster is going to be the calling card, we are going to have to protect our own Budget and stand on our own feet. <BR /> <BR />Finally, it is about putting alternatives on paper. It is about standing over ideas. That is where we see a complete failure from the SDLP and the Ulster Unionists here today.”
“I thank the Member for his intervention. I was in the Chamber earlier for this point as well. They are new posts. They are posts that were not filled by the 500 people who will be leaving through early retirement. If those posts were not created with this money, the 500 people would not go out, so they are new posts. I thank the Member for his intervention nonetheless. <BR /> <BR />As I said, area planning and school transport are just two issues where Education is going to have massive challenges. We are seeing a far greater need to utilise the block grant to its maximum effect. As we go forward over the next number of years, we are going to have to see that. We are going to have to see real, proper financial targeting and an outcomes-based approach that really demonstrates changes. All too often, we have not seen that.”
“That scheme is designed to give employment to 500 newly graduated teachers, who are the teachers who find it the hardest to find employment. It has been said that there are 500, 600 or 700 appointments a year for those beyond the three-year period, but teachers, in the first three years after coming out, find it very difficult indeed to get employment. <BR /> <BR />There are also big decisions to be made around school transport. Here is a budget that has spent millions of pounds. We are going to have to tackle it. I have no doubt that the next Education Minister will address that and it is something that the House —”
“There can be no doubt that Westminster promises nothing but more austerity in the years to come. Nowhere is that sharper than in the big Departments of Health and Education. There are going to be very challenging times ahead for those Departments, which manage such massive budgets and large estates. When we look at the process of area planning and our schools estate, we see massive challenges ahead. That is where innovation, creativity and a desire to lead will have to come to the fore. As has been stressed, it takes political leadership. It takes those on board to be on board, and, if you are opposed, you should stand outside and be opposed. We must not be opposed to ideas simply for political capital, such as we see happening with the investing in the teacher workforce scheme.”
“The relentless attack on the block grant has ensured that we, collectively, as an Executive and as an Assembly, are unable to deliver the level of public services that we would ideally like to.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I welcome this opportunity to speak. I know that my colleague Alex Maskey was hoping that the Minister's former role as Minister for Social Development would mean that he would look favourably on those requests. Given that he is a former Chair of the Education Committee, I hope that he will look favourably on Education requests. <BR /> <BR />Mike Nesbitt said that there is a need for greater context. I agree with that point, in that we really cannot ignore the devastating impact that Westminster-driven austerity continues to have on our local budgets. It would be remiss of us not to mention that here today.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I welcome the Minister's statement. The subject of student mobility across the island has been touched upon. While good work has been done to harmonise qualifications and to make the process easier, there rests an issue with pupil awareness of the opportunities that exist for all-Ireland student mobility. Does any EU funding give both jurisdictions the opportunity to tackle this by raising awareness of the possibilities?”
“Go raibh maith agat. I thank the Minister for her answer. What opportunities exist to explore the sensitivities and complexities of some of these events? In 2016 alone, we are going to mark the huge waste of life at the battle of the Somme at the behest of the old empires, and, of course, the Easter rising, which was the catalyst for the spark of many anti-colonial movements that would bring those old empires crashing down some years later. So, what opportunities exist for discovering some of the complexities and sensitivities involved?”
“They give the Bill a little bit of robustness in front of the law — who would not want to see that? In relation to Steven Agnew's amendment, I concur entirely with the Chair: it is a welcome development, given the departmental assurances previously on the transitional stage. I am more than happy to support that. <BR /> <BR />Finally, on amendment No 3, I see where stakeholders were coming from when we talked about therapeutic and the need for relevant suitable services, but it is only right that we make sure that whatever is put into the Bill is competent. Again, I am more than happy to support that. As the Chair said, I am happy that we have reached this point with the Bill. I think that it is going to do a lot of good. I am happy to move on to the next stage.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I, like those who spoke before me, am happy to speak at this stage. The Chair summed it up pretty well when he said that a lot of the amendments and the subjects that we are talking about are perfectly sensible. I think that that was the phrase he used. To a large extent, I concur with that. When we look at the issues around amendment No 1, such as the RQIA and the three-year cycle or working in tandem with the education inspectors, I do not think that the Committee or any Member will be overly protective of this. Again, it is a perfectly sensible amendment. I am happy to see that happen. It helps to solidify and strengthen the Bill on a legislative footing, so I certainly welcome it. <BR /> <BR />As the Minister outlined, most of the changes are technical in nature.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for her answer thus far, and, indeed, it is to be welcomed that we are seeing fewer instances of the need for such fines. We do, however, still have a situation in some places such as Ballyhornan, where the Department is pumping a level of sewage into the water that it would not in other places in the North. Will the Minister give a commitment to make 2016 the year that this ceases?”
“Bullying should be on the agenda of all meetings of boards of governors. It is an issue that should be addressed across the board. <BR /> <BR />Finally, I welcome the Bill, and I think that the wider school community and the wider public will welcome it. It comes at a pertinent time, and I look forward to hearing the thoughts of others.”
“As a member of a football club and someone who has coached young people in football clubs, I see this taking place and hear language that is " just traditional banter". Those days are gone, so we need to knock that on the head and set in place good policies. The Bill gives us an opportunity to do so. <BR /> <BR />You would think that the recording of incidents would, by now, be taken as read across the board, but, unfortunately, that is not the case. I also welcome that. <BR /> <BR />I know that some will look at the Bill as placing more responsibilities on governors. We have to look at building the capacity of boards of governors to address the issue. The Bill brings, if not a level of accountability to teaching staff etc, some help in being able to look at bullying as a whole. Most importantly, it gives a wider focus.”
“If we are to deal with bullying through a partnership between communities, schools and parents, it has to be done in the same way across the board. One sector cannot do it differently. <BR /> <BR />I welcome the inclusive definition. It is a very practical and usable definition that will be central to the success of the Bill, and I think that it gives confidence to teachers. Going back to a RSE policy, I think that teachers were sometimes afraid to deal with certain types of bullying. Perhaps they thought that it would be better to leave it and let someone else deal with it, but that does not do pupils any favours. <BR /> <BR />The Minister touched on the notion of something being just traditional banter.”
“All too often, schools have simply disregarded departmental policies, and I think that the legislation has to call a halt to that. There has to be zero tolerance because, at the end of the day, we are talking about the health and well-being of our young people. The Bill will end that semi-detached attitude. <BR /> <BR />I look forward to Committee Stage, when we can look at the different aspects of bullying, such as sectarianism, racism and, as I mentioned, homophobia, as well as how the legislation can be expanded to how we deal with cyberbullying. These are not just issues for the classroom; they go far wider than that, into society. <BR /> <BR />I welcome the fact that the Minister said that the Bill is not a straightjacket or a very rigid approach. We need a consistent approach across the board.”
“The legislation, with the involvement of boards of governors and the wider school community, along with the work that the Department has done with the Anti-Bullying Forum, takes note of that process and of the need for wider action. <BR /> <BR />The work done by the Anti-Bullying Forum in 2013 found a wide variation in how schools responded and the policies that were in place. Lately, when I was out with people from PIPS in a particular part of Belfast, they said that the single biggest reason for self-harm in schools that they had been in recently was homophobic bullying, yet some of these schools did not even have a policy to deal with such issues. Look at the need for relationships and sexual education (RSE) policies: we know from a recent survey by the Department that less than one fifth of schools that replied had a policy in place.”
“<BR /> <BR />Significantly, as a society, we have also acknowledged in recent years that the learning process is not simply one that takes place inside the school gates and that, if we are to tackle a variety of education problems, we need to so in partnership with parents and the community.”
“In recent times, we have become increasingly cognisant of the impact of bullying on the learning process, whether on attendance, educational attainment or general well-being. Teen suicide, self-harm and acts of violence towards others are on the rise. Young people are dealing with issues relating to anxiety, depression, loneliness and unhappiness in greater numbers than ever before. A growing number of young people and pupils have trouble sleeping, focusing and making decisions. In short, far too many of our young people are having their self-esteem smashed to pieces. It does not take a genius to work out that their education and educational outcomes have been severely affected by bullying. Indeed, their entire life is being affected.”
“I hope that this is a standard that we see maintained in future consultations. <BR /> <BR />Bullying, as other Members have said, is a highly complex issue. It does not just affect schools; it is also in workplaces. I would go as far as to suggest that even in here I have witnessed bullying in the last three years as an MLA. It is something that happens in sports clubs and in any environment in which people come together for a variety of reasons. Of course, the emerging problem that we are seeing is the development of cyberbullying and the extent to which that goes on. It has added a whole new dimension to bullying in the education process. <BR /> <BR />As we know, bullying happens for a variety of reasons and takes many forms. It is multi-causal but has a single consequence, which is very often that somebody is hurt.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I welcome this stage of the Bill. As other Members have outlined, it is a good news story for education in tackling what is a very prevalent problem in some instances. I also want to pay tribute to the Anti-Bullying Forum, which, alongside the Department, has done sterling work in the last few years in assessing and evidencing the issues involved. I hope that this legislation, which comes on the back of that good work, will go some way to giving schools, parents and, most importantly, young people the confidence that bullying is receiving the focus that it deserves. It is an ever changing issue, as no doubt we will discuss. I am also heartened to hear the Minister say that 87% of the responses came from the pupils themselves. The Department deserves some credit for that.”
“I support this accelerated passage, but it is right that we touch on the use of accelerated passage and the fact that we need to be careful about where and how often we use it. I am more than happy, however, to support accelerated passage in this instance.”
“Go raibh maith agat. I do not wish to add an awful lot to what Members have said; I will probably accelerate my comments. We are all touching on the same issues: reform has been needed for quite a while, and that has been agreed between the parties for quite a while. We have had cross-party support for the reform of our Departments, how we do that and a reduction to nine Departments. As the junior Minister and the Deputy Chairperson of the Committee outlined, the real work will be on the transfer of functions Order and the scrutiny and debate during Second Stage, which, of course, is to follow this. It is important that we have accelerated passage to allow us to get to a better place for Departments. It is what the public and the parties want.”
“Perhaps amendment No 8 pre-empts the consultation process. That is why we will be opposing it. <BR /> <BR />I am happy to support the Minister's amendments. Out of all of them, I will speak about amendment Nos 3 and 4 and the transfer of the personal learning plan. The personal learning plan is one of the Bill's big strengths. It will be able to be transferred from school to school. Parents will be very happy with that, and it will be a big success. Therefore, we will be supporting amendment Nos 1 to 12, with the exception of amendment No 8.”
“That is a perfect example of co-design and cooperation working. <BR /> <BR />On amendment No 7, one of the biggest things when dealing with all of this has been the geographic disparity that there is sometimes. We have all seen it in our constituency. Amendment No 7 would help to tackle that, because the situation desperately needs to be addressed. <BR /> <BR />On amendment No 8, I take on board the Minister's comment that, if the Bill provides a "building block" — those were the words used — the regulations will follow and that that is where the matter will be dealt with. I am entirely supportive of parents' desire for clarity on what services their child requires, but I am happy to go with what the Minister said about the regulations and, especially, the consultation. We do not want to put the cart before the horse.”
“I have no doubt that the Departments have been talking, and, from the Minister's comments today, it sounds as though discussions have taken place the whole way through the process. If I gave the impression that they will only be sitting down for Further Consideration Stage, it is not what I meant to do. <BR /> <BR />On the amendments to cooperate, it may be advantageous to deal specifically with the duplication issues and areas that can be tidied up to make sure that it is workable. That is what we want. The Committee certainly does not want to make bad law. We want to strengthen what is going on and do not want any unintended consequences negating what we are trying to do. <BR /> <BR />I take on board the comments that the RQIA is maybe not the best body for the purpose, but it is great that it volunteered.”
“Any attempt to break that down is very welcome. <BR /> <BR />I take on board many of the concerns that the previous Member who spoke laid out about duplication and some of his concerns about the amendments. I refer to the Minister's point about sitting down with the Health Department and working out technical amendments for Further Consideration Stage. That gives us the scope to press ahead with the amendments. It is a unique opportunity. Parents are calling for and demanding a far more coordinated process, and we need to look at that. <BR /> <BR />Perhaps the Health Department is saying that a lot of the permissive powers are sitting on the shelf, and we do not need new powers. However, the point is that they are not being utilised to the extent that we need to see. The duty to cooperate —”
“Perhaps most important is the building of capacity in teachers and schools to be able to deliver world-class and up-to-date services for children with special educational needs. The Bill forms the building blocks of a far brighter future, and I look forward to the regulations and consultation that will follow. <BR /> <BR />Much of the contest on some of the amendments touches on the emerging need to cooperate and for co-design between Departments. That comes from Mr Agnew's Bill, but a lot of it predates it. Some of the amendments take unique opportunities on board. Too often, there is a silo mentality between our Departments and even within Departments. That comes up all the time when we are dealing with special educational needs: the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing and so on.”
“<BR /> <BR />I notice that it is mostly Education Committee members who are in the Chamber, but special educational needs issues dominate MLAs' inboxes and workloads, and parents and schools are often frustrated that they are not able to access services or that there are various difficulties. The Bill will be a sea change in dealing with that. <BR /> <BR />As the Minister outlined, the Bill represents a new framework that is built on principles that the Committee very much focused on: transparency, inclusiveness, accountability, and reducing bureaucracy and red tape. At its very core, it is about putting the child at the centre of the process. We have seen how much we have strengthened the rights of the child and parents' appeals.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. I support most of the amendments but oppose amendment No 8, taking on board what has been laid out by the Minister. <BR /> <BR />Most in the Chamber will agree and take comfort from the fact that the process has been years in the making and that a lot of the issues have been dealt with by previous Education Committee members long before I had the chance to come onto the Committee. As was outlined by the Chair, it has been very positive to see that spirit of cooperation breaking out and a consensus that we need to deal with fairly complex areas of concern. Putting the child at the centre of the process has been to the fore of everybody's mind, which is great.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for his answer. He referred to the "central pot" of school surpluses. Will he detail how much is in that central pot?”
“I thank the Minister for his answers thus far. I welcome the original questioner's acceptance of the effect of targeting social need in areas such as the Shankill, but remind the questioner that he voted against changes to the common funding system and that it is important to show leadership. So I ask the Minister: how is it now important to show leadership, especially when it comes to academic selection, in areas such as the Shankill?”