Chris Hazzard
South Down · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“The order I am bringing forward extends the power for my Department to pay a grant to NI Water in lieu of domestic water charges. The current powers to pay a grant will expire on 31 March 2017, and the Water and Sewerage Services Act 2016, which was passed by the Assembly in January last year, provided the power to extend that date by an…”
“I thank those Members who have commented on the motion this evening. Some general issues and several specific points have been raised. <BR /> <BR />I will turn first to Mr Farry's question: why, for the period of time?”
“I am delighted that the Alliance argument around water charges does not chime with more of the electorate and that the particular reason does not hold sway, because this Executive certainly are not for turning on this issue. There will be no water charges for domestic customers, and we have ensured that.”
“<BR /> <BR />The second point that Mr Farry raised was around governance issues and the way forward. They are all issues that I have given thought to and that, I have no doubt, would have featured in the mandate in the time ahead, but we are not at that point today. The Assembly is about to be dissolved.”
“However, the imminent dissolution of the Assembly means I have decided to bring the draft order here today. <BR /> <BR />The grant provides NI Water with the funding to enable it to maintain drinking water supplies and deliver sewerage services.”
“I believe that this order will reinforce the Executive's commitment not to bring in water charging for households, and I thank the Members for their support.”
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“The Member may be keen to know that we, the Welsh and the Scottish devolved Parliaments are all having this debate. We are all showing the democratic will of the people of these regions who are opposed to Trident.”
“It does nothing for the ordinary people who live in Britain or, indeed, the North of Ireland. <BR /> <BR />What could we not do with the £5 billion? How many A&E departments could we not restore? How many schools could we not build? How many of those people on welfare who need our help and who turn to food banks and suffer from fuel poverty could we not help? How many older people, who have to choose between heating their home or eating, could we save? How many of those people, some of whom might perish during the winter, could we save? <BR /> <BR />This is a vanity project and nothing short of it.”
“Just to remind people out there who maybe do not know what Trident is, it is four nuclear subs, one of which is constantly circulating around the seas, with 40 nuclear warheads that are eight times more powerful than those used in the destruction of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Some 200,000 people were killed in '45. That gives a total death capacity of 300 million. That number of people could be wiped out as a result of this policy. <BR /> <BR />Why is there a need for this? Replacing those submarines and warheads is a huge vanity project. Tony Blair said it: this is about status and sitting at the top table. I do not often agree with much of what Tony Blair says, especially when it comes to defence and foreign policy, but he is right. This is a vanity project, and it is about status and sitting at the top table.”
“No, I am running out of time and want to get finished. As I said, the best insurance policy that we can have is to build people a home — in fact, a million homes — provide suitable health facilities nearby and give them a world-class education.”
“I thank the Member for that. That figure came from the all-party group that looked at Trident. We also have to bear in mind that the Ministry of Defence typically works off a 40% overspend on its projects. A figure of £167 billion is being quoted. The leader of the Ulster Unionist Party pointed out that this is going to take decades. I suggest that £167 billion is a conservative estimate when we consider the amount that will be spent. <BR /> <BR />The crux of the argument is that this is about political choices. The leader of the Ulster Unionist Party shakes his head, but this is a political choice. The argument was made that this has to do with national security, as if somehow, if someone were to launch a nuclear strike on a British city, launching a nuclear strike back would save the people in the British city.”
“The risk trebles when we look at the restoration of nuclear services. As I say, build people a home. In fact, the money used for Trident would build more than a million homes.”
“It is the perfect neo-liberal storm, with the Tories in the driving seat. Health spend in Britain is the lowest of the G8 countries, yet military spend is the fourth largest in the world. Somebody try to tally that. <BR /> <BR />We keep hearing about an insurance policy. The best insurance policy is to give someone a good education, a good home and a good hospital nearby. Which scenario makes us safer: hospitals or missiles, doctors or nuclear warheads? Ask the people of Hiroshima and Nagasaki what they would prefer. <BR /> <BR />Our A&Es are under threat. Our nursing homes are closing. What could we not do with the money that would come to us as a result of it being spent better on public services? I heard today repeatedly that this is an insurance policy somehow. Absolute nonsense.”
“The British Government are now proposing to sell off the student loan book to private companies, and that will see student debt spiral out of control for decades. Ironically, scrapping Trident and restoring education spend to that of the days at the height of the Cold War would bring education back to a free and world-class level. <BR /> <BR />The economy was half the size during the Cold War, yet the national security threat was probably double. However, that was at a time that education was free and safe from austerity. In that era, Britain signed up to the non-proliferation treaty. Why sign up to the non-proliferation treaty and then demand that we restore nuclear weapons? The economy is twice as big nowadays. This is about political choices. <BR /> <BR />The NHS is under severe threat from underspend and privatisation.”
“<BR /> <BR />The previous contributor talked about the need to tackle the gross, barbaric terrorism that is spreading throughout much of the Middle East. I wholeheartedly accept that point, but he failed to explain how in the name of God Trident will bring peace to the Middle East. Absolutely not. The only time that any such system was used, it brought nothing but death and terror to 200,000 people in the Japanese cities of Nagasaki and Hiroshima. <BR /> <BR />We must remember that this is about government spend. This is about austerity and political choices. If we take education in Britain, fees have trebled, the education maintenance allowance has been scrapped, teachers have been sacked and courses have been scrapped.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I will speak in favour of the motion. <BR /> <BR />To go back to what the motion states, I want to say that this is about government spend. It is not so much about defence. We must remember and put in context the fact that we are living in the sharpest period of austerity in living memory. Only those alive in the late 1920s and the 1930s will be able to connect with or will have seen similar levels of austerity, especially in Britain. No area of government spend has been spared. Health, education, housing and welfare have been targeted. The one area that has not been targeted is, of course, Trident. It is the exception. Trident has been spared the austerity, and one has to ask why.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I will return to the motion, and I thank the Member for giving way. The Member made the point that Trident has averted war. Has he not been watching TV throughout his life? Has he not seen countries pillaged by wars and hundreds of millions of people killed during wars? Trident has not prevented war. In fact, one of the top US nuclear officials, Robert McNamara, said that this Earth had been very lucky not to have experienced a nuclear catastrophe.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for her answer. What effect will the changes to the Child Poverty Act proposed in the British Government's Welfare Reform and Work Bill have on tackling child poverty in the North? Go raibh maith agat.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. The Member seems to be taking an awful lot of offence that he has to deal with welfare today in one day. The Member will perhaps be enlightened to know that, on 6 October, during the talks, his colleague Alex Attwood asked for a one-day session to deal with welfare. I think that the SDLP should get its facts right on this issue.”
“Not one local resident refers to it as Cross Road, and that causes considerable problems. Emergency services have ended up in Crossmaglen, which is maybe 30 minutes away from the actual place. I put it on the record that this is not just a problem for Fermanagh but a problem right across the board. It is not the case that it will cause confusion; rather, in a lot of circumstances, it will go a long way towards helping to address confusion.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. That is a point that I wanted to raise with Mrs Cameron earlier in the debate, and I certainly contest that this is an issue only for Fermanagh. In my constituency of South Down, just outside Hilltown and Mayobridge, we have the townland of Leode — Leode Road — and the residents in that area refer to it all the time. They have trouble all the time with emergency services, which, for some reason when they look at Google Maps and satnav, see Cross Road.”
“I welcome the Minister's statement. I think that it is a confident decision by the local education system to go this route. Will this decision have an impact on those subject areas here that maybe do not attract as many entrants as others? Will this decision perhaps have an impact on that, and what can we do to ensure that those subjects are still available going forward? Go raibh maith agat.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. He is looking for a bit of clarity. I think that I went to great lengths to say that I have absolutely nothing against grammar schools except their system of admissions. I want everybody to be afforded the chance of going to some of our best schools. I went to a grammar school, but not everybody in my family nor all my friends were afforded that chance, and we have all ended up in different walks of life. We want to be able to give every child the possibility of attending our very best schools.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for his answers thus far. Minister, bearing in mind that more than two thirds of schools have moved away from selection and do not have any academic selection at age 10, what progress has been made in moving away from selection the final rump of schools that insist on that process?”
“Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for her answer. How will she ensure that the strategy is properly resourced and that there is widespread political, if not public, support for the initiatives?”
“Our primary schools, nursery units, FE colleges, universities and workplaces are of mixed ability. Why should we not make post-primary schools this way, too? Go raibh maith agat.”
“All the international evidence and OECD report after report tell us that the best systems worldwide are non-selective and that a school environment with a good social and academic mix benefits all children. This is an evidence-based approach; it is not an ideology. That takes the politics out of it. It is an evidence-based approach. Selection has been made entirely obsolete throughout the world.”
“As shown by the latest PISA figures, education systems in Canada, Finland, New Zealand, Australia and Poland are outperforming our schools in terms of 15-year-olds reaching the very top grades in maths, literacy and science. Not a single one of those systems is selective, so they must be doing something right. Evidence that academic selection at age 11 benefits children is totally non-existent. Nobody in this Chamber will be able to point to an academic-selection system anywhere in the world that benefits the children or the system. Again, I challenge anybody here to name one single educational benefit to children of academic selection. I challenge anybody to do that today.”
“I thank the Member for his interjection. I must see different Catholic schools and boards of governors moving away from academic selection than those that the Member sees. I think that he must be reading a different letter than I am. He talks about red herrings. Let us talk about red herrings. Many of those schools — for example, at least four last year — had more places available than there were applicants, yet they made them sit the test anyway. Why was that? That test was a complete red herring. I think that that gets to the very crux of this: it has become a modelling and marketing campaign for those schools who want to say that they are good schools and that, without this test, you are somehow not a good school. <BR /> <BR />Let us look at the international evidence.”
“I am sorry; I just want to get through this particular point. <BR /> <BR />Would they listen to the United Nations, which is opposed to academic selection? Would they listen to the Equality Commission, which is opposed to academic selection? Most importantly, would they listen to children? I have no doubt that if we actually asked our children whether they wanted to do this, they would also want to find a better way. I will give way at that point.”
“Would you listen to the Churches that are opposed to academic selection? Would you listen to the teaching unions that are opposed to academic selection? Would you listen to the vast majority of political parties that are opposed to academic selection?”
“Again, this is extremely unfair. <BR /> <BR />Probably the one part of the motion that I do agree with is that it is entirely unacceptable: children should not be put through the mire of having to do this. My thoughts are with the families and children who will have to do that this weekend. It is totally unnecessary. The proposer talked about parental demand. Again, parental demand is not for the test; it is for access to the good school. I enjoyed a very good education at an elite Catholic grammar school. I do not want to get rid of grammar schools; I want everybody in society to be able to access those schools. If we have academic selection, that is not open to everybody in our community. <BR /> <BR />The motion talks about talks, but this question must be put to those on the opposite Benches: would you listen?”
“The proposer said that selection at 11 and 10 is, somehow, the same as selection at 18: that is absolute nonsense. We select at 18 because you are going on to university to do a specific course, so you need specific skills. A one-size-fits-all test at age 10 is not the same. That takes me on to my next point about the motion. The motion talks about a one-size-fits-all model not working, so why would we apply a one-size-fits-all test to our children? It will not work, and it does not work.”
“When it comes to academic selection and the refusal of a rump of schools and boards of governors to move with the times, that is certainly the case. <BR /> <BR />The motion talks about needing to find a solution: a solution has been found. More than two thirds of our schools no longer work with academic selection; less than a third of our schools do that. A solution has been found. The Member talked about a vacuum being created, because nothing was put in place. That is the whole point: nothing needs to be put in place. The motion also talks about the need to remove politicking and politics from the debate, yet the proposer went on to blame Sinn Féin for the failures in this regard. Again, I repeat: DE does not set admissions criteria; boards of governors set admissions criteria.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I thank my colleague on the Education Committee Sandra Overend for moving the motion, although I think it is, to use a phrase, a dog's dinner of a motion. It is contradictory in every sentence, but I think, to be fair and respectful, that that has, at times, signalled a lot of Ulster Unionist policy on education reform over the last number of years. I think you are, as your leader said yesterday about marriage equality, on the wrong side of history when it comes to academic selection. The USA, the South, Britain, Canada — all the countries around the world — are lining up to pass legislation for marriage equality; they also made academic selection obsolete many years ago. Why does this part of the world end up being a backwater when it comes to getting on with the times?”
“I pay tribute to the local people who tirelessly campaign on the issue, and I am very proud to play a part in that.”
“If it is not good enough for people in north Down, it should not be good enough for people in south Down. For local businesses and everybody else, the importance of this cannot be overstated. For far too long, it has been a case of out of sight, out of mind when it comes to the beaches in south Down, particularly in Lecale. <BR /> <BR />It is great that the council was able to vote through a beaches forum. What we now need from the Department and the Minister is the dedication to make sure that the process of applying for EU bathing status for the three beaches — Killough, Kilclief and Ballyhornan — begins by the end of this year. If we have to wait for another six years, I do not think that local people will forgive us. <BR /> <BR />I thank all of you for coming here tonight and participating in the debate.”
“I mentioned active communities, which often do not have the best sports facilities and are looking for improved ones. These are fantastic beaches and local ventures to get involved in. <BR /> <BR />Tourism is a big thing, and it will be the real driver of change for the south Down and Lecale area. However, if we do not give tourism the building blocks, we are simply operating with our hands tied behind our backs. How will we attract tourists to absolutely stunning places? Ballyhornan is stunning, and there is such potential in Kilclief and Killough, yet we are saying to tourists to come along, but, when you get into the water, you might have to watch out for sanitary towels. It is simply not acceptable, and we should not be doing that.”
“I think that the Department simply slaps a fine on NI Water for that. I see that the previous Minister is here and he can let us know whether it is any different; but, as far as I am aware, the Department simply slaps a fine onto NI Water and thinks that that will do. It is simply unacceptable and has to change.”
“It is an issue not just for industry and big housing developments, but for local, small housing developments. We all know the sewage issues that arise at Ballyhornan, the former military camp. Yesterday, we were with a number of schoolchildren from south Down and we were talking about the debate we would be having tonight. They wanted to know what it was about, so we explained about the pumping of sewage into the sea. The kids asked the obvious question, as kids do at times: why not just stop? It is a very simplified approach, but it is right. It simply should not be allowed. <BR /> <BR />Look at a beach like Ballyhornan: it just beggars belief that at a beach, controlled by the Department, in a designated area of special scientific interest (ASSI) for flora and fauna and everything else, we tolerate sewage being pumped into the sea.”
“Litter has very often been left to the local community, which does a massive number of litter picks on all those beaches. Now we have the statutory footing, whereby the beaches forum can perhaps take this on. <BR /> <BR />Another exciting venture, I think, is the EU's Coastwatch, whereby the local community gets involved and looks after its own particular stretch or few hundred metres of the coast. When you think of the potential for local schools and organisations, and the need for healthy and active local communities, this is a no-brainer. For me, the beaches forum has potential, in that fourfold way, to drive this forward. As I have said, EU bathing status is the catalyst for all the improvements. <BR /> <BR />Look at the issue of sewage.”
“Not a single beach that was designated in 2011 has a comprehensive management plan, yet these are the sort of challenges that local communities in Killough and Ballyhornan are putting forward. <BR /> <BR />As I have said, it is the local community that has come forward, and I am delighted that my Sinn Féin colleagues in Newry, Mourne and Down Council took some of these demands on board and were successful in a motion creating a local beaches forum that can be a real driver, not only in securing the EU bathing status but — and this is one of the links, I suppose — we have the potential for a Mourne coastal path. This aspect taps into tourism. There is now no better body to drive forward, in tandem with the local community, than this beaches forum when it comes to the coastal path.”
“Therefore, the application must be submitted by the end of 2015 to meet the deadline for the next process. This highlights the urgency about this matter. We have to see action from the Department. In partnership with the local council, the Department will be the people who facilitate this. I am delighted to see that the Chair of the Environment Committee is here; perhaps this is a vehicle that the local community may be able to use to ensure that something as important as this gets the attention it deserves. The north Down and Ards beaches were put forward by designation, as I said. The council did not have to be proactive at all. No management plans were created and, in most cases, there remain no active management plans whatsoever.”
“The marine policy division of the DOE manages the whole process in the North. The designation, as I said earlier, first appeared in 2011, when 23 beaches were identified by NIEA and automatically designated. All the north Down and north Antrim coast beaches were designated. The bathing waters, once designated, have undergone a rigorous water-monitoring regime ever since. The regime was tightened up in 2015. The people of Lecale and the wider south Down area deserve something similar. <BR /> <BR />Designations, though, for EU status — and this highlights the urgency of the situation — happen only every six years. Given that the last designation was at the end of 2011, the next designation process will be at the end of the 2017 bathing season. It takes two full years to undergo the monitoring process as a candidate beach.”
“Again, there is a very vibrant community that wants to step into the area that government is neglecting and take control. I think that, in an era of co-design and wanting to work with various agencies, this has great potential to let local communities, which have a real interest in conservation and environmental protections for local areas, play a key role. <BR /> <BR />The infrastructure is largely there. There are no serious resource implications for EU bathing status. It is a matter of providing new signage about bathing water. Obligations are fairly light touch. Unlike our blue flag beaches, there is no demand that you have to have lifeguards etc. For those who are not aware of EU bathing-water designation, it simply acknowledges that waters where people bathe require more monitoring and clear reporting to the public.”
“For areas such as Dunsford, Killough and Ballyhornan, which have not been able to get housing developments passed or any sort of industrial growth because of the poor sewerage infrastructure, this could be a real catalyst. So, it is not just for the beach; it is for the wider area. <BR /> <BR />The neglect from central government means that the community has had to take the lead. The community has been brilliant and I pay great tribute to it. Over the last couple of years, it has organised mass swims on the beaches to highlight that the beaches are being used in Ballyhornan, Kilclief and Killough. Hundreds of people have participated, and the positive media coverage has gone all around the world. That is tied into another local Lecale campaign about saving the heritage of our lighthouse.”
“If we look at Ardglass, we see a very active fishing harbour. There is great potential for tourism, but the amount of pollution and industrial waste that is washed onto east Ardglass beach is just not acceptable, and we need to do something about it. Minerstown is a very significant beach that has ecological value. We have a seal colony that comes ashore to give birth, but the council has been looking at the water and it is not coming up to scratch. We have to ask why that is allowed to be the case. <BR /> <BR />For various reasons, EU bathing status will be the catalyst for growth in all of this. If we can get EU bathing status, NI Water simply will not be allowed to pump the sewage into the water. That means that we will see an upgrade in the sewerage infrastructure.”
“As I will come on to later, none of those beaches have bathing management plans in place, yet the local community in Lecale, and in places like Ballyhornan, Killough, Ardglass and Kilclief, have to jump through hoops to gain that sort of recognition. Again, I think that is a direct result of decades of neglect and mismanagement. <BR /> <BR />Directly feeding into that is a long tradition of NI Water pumping grade two sewage into the water at Audley's Castle. Coney Island is very popular with local surfers, yet we pump sewage into the water. Ballyhornan is an area of scientific interest with special flora and fauna, yet we pump sewage into the water. Dundrum Bay has potential and there are various business interests in developing oysters and mussels, yet we pump sewage into the water.”
“The potential for growth and tourism on those beaches and the protection of our environment is huge, but that is simply not getting the attention that it deserves from government. There is a phrase that best sums up the approach, which is simply "a poverty of aspiration". Nowhere is that more keenly felt than in the lack of EU bathing status for a number of those beaches. That is severely disappointing. <BR /> <BR />The people of Lecale and the wider South Down constituency believe that they are being treated as second-class citizens, and I agree with them. It is intolerable that every single beach in north Down and north Antrim was simply gifted EU bathing status. They did not have to apply — the Department did that for them — and they did not have to reach any sort of standard of bathing water; they were simply gifted that status.”
“For a beach that is controlled by the Department of the Environment, it is absolutely unacceptable that that is the case. Various strategies have been put in place by the Department in recent years. Some of them, such as Fishing for Litter, have had limited success. We know that there are issues with the fishing industry, and some of the beaches adjacent to some of our harbours have the highest amount of litter, but we need to see more being done. We have had only limited success. <BR /> <BR />Tyrella, Cranfield, Murlough and Newcastle seem to feature in the good beach summits. I will focus mostly on Lecale tonight, and my colleague Caitríona Ruane will talk about some of the other areas. There are 13 beaches along Lecale, and those are the ones that we need to concentrate on.”
“We have had more than 50 incidents of these dangerous munitions washing ashore in south Down in the last five years alone. It is quite simple, and the local community is saying that it is quite simple: we can no longer tolerate the laissez-faire approach of the Department of the Environment to those incidents. They cannot be out of sight, out of mind. Munitions is just one issue relating to the beaches, but it needs to be brought to the fore. <BR /> <BR />Another issue is litter. A recent marine litter survey indicated that it is still a real and severe issue in South Down. Look at the case of Ballyhornan — a beach owned by the Department of the Environment. The NIEA controls Ballyhornan beach. There is twice as much litter on Ballyhornan beach than on all the beaches on the north Antrim coast combined.”
“Many people may not be aware that the British military dumped vast quantities of armaments and munitions into the Irish Sea following these wars. In 1945 alone, more than one million tons of munitions were dumped into Beaufort's Dyke, a long trough in the seabed of the Irish Sea. Included in this dump were mortars, grenades, rockets, cluster bombs, anti-aircraft shells, mustard gas, sarin gas and more than 15,000 phosgene chemical warheads. In the 1950s and 1960s, radioactive munitions were dumped again as each Cold War modification of weaponry deemed various types of bombs obsolete. Stormont's Environment Ministers and Department at the time simply turned their back on the potential impact of such actions. It was a case of out of sight, out of mind.”
“Local people will be disappointed that the Department of the Environment and the Minister of the Environment are not here to listen to some of these points and to respond. They will be doubly disappointed given that, with the Minister of the Environment not here, we could perhaps have had the Minister for Regional Development here, as a lot of the issues that we are going to talk about relate to DRD, but, of course, political games mean that we are left with no Minister for Regional Development. It is local people and local communities who are coming to the fore to tackle long-standing neglect. It is disappointing, and I just want to place that disappointment on record. <BR /> <BR />When walking around this Building, Members will have seen various references to the Great War of 1914-18 and, of course, the Second World War.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I thank the Business Committee for allowing this debate. On these dark autumn nights, beaches are a long way from most of our minds. However, what we are going to discuss is very important, not just for the tourism and leisure facilities of the south Down area but for the environment, wildlife and economic growth and prosperity. I thank those MLAs, constituency colleagues and others who have stayed behind. <BR /> <BR />I want to place on record special thanks to local campaigners who, for a number of months, have been quite vociferous in their call that government is not doing enough. We have an empty chair tonight where a Minister should have been sitting.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. At various local sports clubs in south Down, the Member has, along with Mr Rogers, other MLAs and MPs and me, attended events on suicide awareness, mental health awareness and even road safety. Gaps that should be filled by Departments and the Government are being filled by clubs holding these extracurricular events. However, in light of emigration and the tight economic times, clubs are having to turn way from such events because they need to look after their own sporting events. This really needs to be addressed. No doubt, the Member will agree that we should do everything that we can to alleviate these hard times for our amateur sports clubs.”
“Such co-design will strengthen, I think, the complaints procedure outlined in the new clause in Part 3. There would have been some issue around cost, but it is welcome that the commencement will not happen until the Assembly Commission deems it is more economically wise to do so, as outlined in amendment No 75. <BR /> <BR />To a large extent, the amendments are just a synchronising of terminology to pave the way for the new clause in Part 3. If the wider principle is to maximise the effect of addressing a complaint, Part 3 is at the heart of the process, and it is for these amendments to do that. <BR /> <BR />Sinn Féin supports each of the new amendments, including the new clauses, and looks forward to the rest of the debate.”