Chris Hazzard
South Down · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“The order I am bringing forward extends the power for my Department to pay a grant to NI Water in lieu of domestic water charges. The current powers to pay a grant will expire on 31 March 2017, and the Water and Sewerage Services Act 2016, which was passed by the Assembly in January last year, provided the power to extend that date by an…”
“I thank those Members who have commented on the motion this evening. Some general issues and several specific points have been raised. <BR /> <BR />I will turn first to Mr Farry's question: why, for the period of time?”
“I am delighted that the Alliance argument around water charges does not chime with more of the electorate and that the particular reason does not hold sway, because this Executive certainly are not for turning on this issue. There will be no water charges for domestic customers, and we have ensured that.”
“<BR /> <BR />The second point that Mr Farry raised was around governance issues and the way forward. They are all issues that I have given thought to and that, I have no doubt, would have featured in the mandate in the time ahead, but we are not at that point today. The Assembly is about to be dissolved.”
“However, the imminent dissolution of the Assembly means I have decided to bring the draft order here today. <BR /> <BR />The grant provides NI Water with the funding to enable it to maintain drinking water supplies and deliver sewerage services.”
“I believe that this order will reinforce the Executive's commitment not to bring in water charging for households, and I thank the Members for their support.”
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“There are various schools — I have worked for some in my own community — with fewer than 105 pupils that are fairly sustainable and are under no direct threat. The area planning process has not been a threat to them. It is wrong to send out messages publicly that this is somehow a numbers game. I have lost count of how many times the Minister or anybody else has said that area planning is not a numbers game and does not come down to numbers. It is about the sustainable schools policy and everything else. It is important to say that. The rural dynamics of the North suggest that we will have schools in rural areas that are under stress. Equally, we will have schools in urban areas that are under stress. If our schools are under stress, then they are not providing the services that we need to be part of an area planning process.”
“<BR /> <BR />I am sure that Mr Lunn will not be surprised that I do not have the same concerns around the needs model that are outlined in recommendation 4, but I will not die in a ditch over it and I certainly will not divide the House over any disagreement. I am happy that the report reflects, at various points, that some Members had alternative ideas. I also do not recognise in the area planning process the attack on the rural schools that is sometimes claimed. I simply do not see that. The process takes the special needs of our rural schools into consideration, and it was a mistake earlier to suggest that if a rural school does not have 105 pupils it is somehow in danger. It is not.”
“That shows where the situation has been fluid and flexible. The Minister was able to meet the needs of that school at that time to afford it that chance. To me, that is what the entire area planning process is about. <BR /> <BR />Despite the cries, sometimes, of "Crisis" and "Catastrophe", that we have heard about area planning from some quarters, it has not been that. We have had a steady process of change. Some people are perhaps frustrated that the pace of change is not enough or that there is too much change. They see alternative or hidden agendas in it. I simply do not see that. The position paper touches on some of the issues. It mentions some of the tweaks or changes that need to happen or would be fruitful. No doubt the Minister and his area planning team in the Department will look at that as we move forward.”
“It is a journey, and it simply will not be an overnight transformation. The process will be fluid and will involve different types of review and analysis and looking at exactly where we are going. Perhaps the last speaker, Mr Newton, touched on that when he mentioned Dundonald High School. I was very privileged to be invited to have a look at the school during the process, and I was delighted to go along. It was clear that it was a school that had suffered, in previous years, as a direct result of no area planning in east Belfast. There had not been enough community engagement, and the leadership of the school had maybe not been what it should have been. The area planning process has certainly been to the benefit of that school. It seems to be on a far better footing and perhaps has a brighter future ahead.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I too welcome the opportunity to talk on the position paper. I want to put on record my thanks to the Clerk and his team, who have put an enormous amount of work into the paper, as they do always. It is important to say that. Also, I thank the schools, stakeholders and communities — the pupils and parents — who travelled to this Building. We went out to engage, and people were very welcoming to the Committee over the last number of years as we looked at the issue. It is right to put on record our thanks to them for raising the issues with the Committee. <BR /> <BR />From the start, it has been clear to me that there is a real need for change. Perhaps what has sometimes not been clear to some people is that it is a process of change.”
“I thank the Minister for her answer. What is her analysis of the touted £30 billion in cuts heading this way for this jurisdiction and what impact that will have on our public services?”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for her answer, and I am sure the local fishing fleet will be glad to know that the system will be easier. Something else that is bothering the local fishing fleet at the minute, of course, is the incident with the submarine in the Irish Sea only a matter of days ago. I want to thank the Minister for her activity in relation to that, coming down to Ardglass and meeting the crew of the trawler involved. Can I ask for an update on what the Minister has been able to do?”
“They know that there is no empirical evidence to back up their case so they resort back to text that is thousands of years old, they distort the meaning of it in various ways, and they saturate society with twisted logic that does nothing but hold us back. <BR /> <BR />Finally, I want to touch on the issue of how this would redefine marriage. It is a complete fallacy. The suffragettes did not redefine voting practices. You only have to look around this Building to see that there are still not enough women in politics. The black Americans did not redefine how we eat out; they only wanted a seat at the table, and our lesbian, gay and bisexual community only want a seat at the table of marriage. They do not want to redefine it; they simply want a piece of the cake.”
“I thank the Member for his intervention. I tend not to reply to statements, but it is a welcome development to see the Member sticking up for the rights of the Catholic Church and being so interested in its press releases. The bishop has every right to comment on this. I do not agree with what the bishop said on the matter. We are dealing today specifically with civil marriage. A number of people have touched on that. I am not saying that the bishop was doing this, but various parties in this Chamber tend to resort to weaponising scripture when it comes to these debates. I think that it is a retreat into the world of scripture. I do not think that it does anything to help them.”
“<BR /> <BR />Nelson McCausland said that he is wedded to the traditional and original concept of marriage, but even a cursory glance at the evolution of the definition of marriage will show that it has changed throughout the ages. I know that Nelson is not the biggest fan of evolution, but surely, if we keep bringing this message back, the progressive voices in the party will come to the fore; people like Pam Cameron, who stood up and realised that Jim Wells was wrong and distanced herself from those comments. We need to see more progressive voices from the DUP to stand up for our brothers and sisters.”
“We will do so until we are blue in the face and until it is successful. <BR /> <BR />Danny Kinahan belittled the motion as party politics but went on to say that he had not really taken the time to think about the issues before. That shows exactly why it is important to bring the motion: it makes people have a think. I also suggest that Danny talks to his party colleague Harold McKee in south Down because Harold certainly needs to take the time to think as well. That is why these motions are very important. It is also why the marriage referendum in the South is very important. It is another welcome stage on the road to equality across this island, and I look forward to being able to campaign with my comrades in the South once the Westminster campaign is over in a couple of weeks.”
“As communities across the world modernise and look to sweep away any vestiges of archaic discrimination and inequality, we, too, must look to show leadership and legislate for equality on all issues across all parts of society. <BR /> <BR />When I was graduating from university, the keynote speaker told us to go forth and change society, that oppositional voices would be strong but that the insatiable desire for progress would ultimately win the day. He was 100% right. We will see marriage equality across this island for our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters. There is no doubt about that. It will not be today, and it will not happen if we sit back and do nothing. It is why we continue to champion the rights of our LGBT community and why we continue to bring this motion to the Floor time and time again.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I welcome and support the motion. <BR /> <BR />Our society in the North has undoubtedly been rocked over the weekend as a result of the actions and words of the outgoing Health Minister, Jim Wells; but let me put on record my genuine hope that Jim and his family take the time over the next number of weeks to move on to a better place for him and for the health of his wife. <BR /> <BR />We now need to hear from the DUP that it has not just heard the huge backlash from local people but has listened as well. The days of vilifying and attacking our LGBT brothers and sisters are over.”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. I think that that will bring quite a lot of relief to some people in and around the Downpatrick area who feared for the future of the Downpatrick courthouse and that we would lose yet another service from our county town to centralisation. That comes as quite a relief. I know that the Department of Justice is now looking at the opportunity to perhaps decentralise some of its headquarters. Would the Minister perhaps look at Downpatrick as a venue for that? Go raibh maith agat.”
“The Member has raised health. When the Health and Social Care (Reform) Bill went through the Assembly, Margaret Ritchie was missing for 15 of the 16 votes. What did Margaret Ritchie do for health when it came to it?”
“Your sister party was in power for over a decade —”
“The Member's sister party was in power for over a decade. Name me one time that your party was able to get a favour for vulnerable people in the North.”
“<BR /> <BR />It is important that we look to repatriate as many powers as possible away from the London-centric elite and back home to Ireland, because it is here in Ireland that we are going to build the society that the previous Member was talking about, in the interests of our people.”
“I will not be giving way, no. We will not be taking our seats at Westminster: it is as simple as that. <BR /> <BR />I am not surprised at the SDLP. I know that when the late Eddie McGrady died, Seamus Mallon was on the radio talking about how they used to miss votes at Westminster because they were off seeing matinees in the West End in London. Then they have the cheek to say that we are somehow not representing our party or constituents if we are not over in Westminster. Well, you are not even in Westminster. You are at West End matinees and everywhere else. It is about being truthful to the electorate and to the people we represent.”
“<BR /> <BR />My colleague has outlined some of the issues around the principles of this. It goes without saying that a British Parliament never has, does not, and never will have any right to adjudicate over Irish affairs. We stand firmly behind that. It is one of the reasons why, as a party, we received the most votes at the Westminster election last year. It is not as if, as one of the Members claimed recently, we are somehow conning the electorate. We go to the electorate as proud Irish republicans. Since Countess Markievicz was elected the first female to the Westminster Parliament and did not take her seat, we do not take our seats at Westminster.”
“This is the party, of course, that, amongst its leadership, has climate change deniers as well. I think that some of the questions will start to shine a light. <BR /> <BR />From the SDLP, there is such hypocrisy. Last week, when its leader was questioned on his very, very poor attendance record, he said that his constituents do not want to see him sitting in Westminster. That is exactly what Sinn Féin is saying. You are wasting your time talking to yourself on the green Benches at Westminster. Anything that people have gathered has been gathered from direct negotiations, be it the devolution of policing and justice powers or the devolution of corporation tax that is eventually coming. It has been direct negotiations with the British Government, and that is exactly what it is.”
“To pretend anything else is a complete fallacy, and I think that parties are simply horse-trading for votes ahead of an election when they talk about being kingmakers. <BR /> <BR />The DUP likes to believe that it will be the kingmaker in a new Government; it talks itself up, but it is complete nonsense. I think that there is an awakening in Britain as well, in that people are starting to realise and to ask who exactly they will be getting into bed with when it comes to the DUP. It is a party that would undoubtedly look to set back the clock on civil rights across these islands; it is a party that, in recent weeks, has been involved in race rows; and some of its leadership figures believe that the earth is not older than 6,000 years. I think that that is starting to resonate in Britain and that people are starting to ask who the DUP is.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I was not expecting to be called so quickly. <BR /> <BR />Coming into the Chamber for the debate this evening, I prepared myself to listen to all the great achievements that have been grasped from the hands of power at Westminster by the various parties. I am not surprised, however, that I have not heard anything. The BBC leaders' debate last week featuring the parties from Britain is a stark illustration of the complete failure of local parties to make any impact whatsoever at Westminster. There was no voice and no concern for local issues, and I thought that it was a very pertinent example of how local issues simply do not hit the political radar when it comes to the Westminster political elite.”
“Surely you agree that that is the outworking of negative austerity from London and it is something that we stood against together.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Just a couple of weeks ago, the Member stood with me in Annalong in solidarity with those who had been affected by an SDLP cut to the money that was allotted to the Mourne Heritage Trust. That is the effect of austerity coming from Westminster. That is the outworkings of austerity.”
“Our combined forces must be on promoting innovation, encouraging our life sciences sector and our tourism industry and strengthening manufacturing. We cannot repair and rebuild our economy and public services in the interests of the few; we must maximise returns for all in this society. At the very heart of that is the idea that we must smash the notion that there is no alternative. There is an alternative. There are alternatives all around the world, where the rights and interests of the many in society are put ahead of the few. We have to break away and show that this institution is full of political leaders, not political pygmies. We must stand up and take real power for our people.”
“However, if we are to truly empower local communities to continue to raise attainment in schools and eradicate inequalities in Irish society, we must be in control of the choices that are to be made. As long as economic power resides in Westminster, we will remain locked in a Tory trap. The Union offers us nothing but the abhorrent and divisive agenda of austerity. If we act collectively, we can end the Tories' reckless mismanagement of our economy. If all sections of civil society — trade unions, political parties and the people we represent — stand united in defence of our public services and local jobs, we can build a fairer society. <BR /> <BR />We must fight for sustainable employment, a living wage and improved working conditions for our people.”
“I was not referring to that at all. I was talking about selling off natural assets to the highest bidder; I was not talking about Belfast harbour. If you want to look at fracking or anything else, perhaps that would be closer to home. <BR /> <BR />If we are truly to build an economic alternative to austerity we must repatriate economic powers from Westminster and empower the people of Ireland. I know that the last Member who spoke scoffed at that idea. I am not sure if he has party support for scoffing at the idea of repatriating powers from Westminster and breaking the link with the Union. I am sure that many of his party will be surprised that he said such in the Chamber today.”
“No, sorry. I want to get through this next point, and I will then come back. <BR /> <BR />Some may brush off what I say today as nothing more than radical rhetoric, but let us have a closer look at what is radical. Surely, radical is sending thousands of working families to food banks for survival; surely, radical is shipping thousands of young people off to foreign lands for a job; and, surely, radical is dismantling the NHS and selling it off for parts. Despite the nonsense promoted by Western media outlets, there is an alternative. That alternative begins with taking control of our economic destiny. I give way to the Member now.”
“There is no reason why we should not look at places such as Latin America. In Chile, they use moneys from corporate taxes to invest in tuition fees so that children who have been locked out of education for many years can now avail themselves of it. In Venezuela, where they use their natural resources to fund social missions, they have eradicated numeracy and literacy problems, and they are genuinely lifting millions of people out of poverty. Yet, here in Ireland, Governments have sought to sell off natural assets to the highest bidder as the interests of international consortiums all too often trump the needs of the people.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I thank my colleagues for tabling the motion today. The last Member who spoke called for plenty of different ideas, a different approach and alternatives. He had five minutes but did not list a single alternative to what is happening. Perhaps he wants to go away to his own think tank and come up with some ideas and he can then table a motion to solve the problems. They are probably still smarting from trying to sell the City Airport or the harbour or some other thing that was not ours to sell. <BR /> <BR />At the core of this is the notion that we need to break away from being wedded to the failed economic policies of austerity emanating from the London and Dublin Governments. We need to look around us and realise that there is an alternative.”
“We need to shine a light on the whole lot if we are to afford justice to everybody who has suffered such miscarriages of justice. I will not support the motion or the amendment.”
“No, I will not give way on this. Colin Worton's case is a window through which we can look at the entire rotten lot: a wholly flawed judicial system at times, including Diplock courts, police brutality and intimidation, when people's vulnerabilities were pressed on by what can only be described as bullies in darkened rooms. That is something that human rights organisations, Church leaders and everybody else have flagged up, so to simply pinpoint one case and say that it is all we will look at and all that deserves treatment is wrong. <BR /> <BR />Of course we have sympathy with Mr Worton. I was not alive when the case first raised its head, but, looking back at the files and the information, you can only have sympathy for what Mr Worton has gone through. It is not an isolated case, but it provides a window that we need to look through.”
“<BR /> <BR />As was also pointed out, there needs to be a universal analysis of miscarriages of justice. Mr Allister just talked about a running sore: this is one of hundreds of running sores. We cannot simply look at one; it is not an isolated case. Hundreds of people have been victims of police brutality, degradation and very often torture in detention centres such as Castlereagh.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I oppose the motion. It is very unfortunate that the proposer, along with so many people, did not make reference to the loss that the Carroll family had to endure and will still be enduring when they hear of this debate. I do not think we should view justice for Colin Worton through a separate prism from that of the Carroll family. That has been alluded to but, unfortunately, it has happened. It was pointed out by my colleagues that, while we heard at length about Colin Worton and the apparent miscarriage of justice in his case, there has been absolutely no reference by the proposer or any of those in support of the motion to its first sentence regarding the miscarriage of justice for the UDR four. That fault lies at the very heart of the motion, and it is why we cannot support it.”
“On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. I apologise to the House for missing my topical question earlier. Go raibh maith agat.”
“The point, which has been made time and again, is that a single equality Bill would deal with that. The last Member who spoke said that it is not the same type of equality as another type of equality, but equality is equality. If the motion is such a passionate plea for equality to dispel the notion of a culture of discrimination and everything else, they should support a single equality Bill that will deal with that. <BR /> <BR />I will not rehearse any of the other arguments that have been made. It is disappointing that the motion tries to catch all. In fact, the valid point that it maybe has in its first part was ruined by including far too many other things. I oppose the motion and the amendment.”
“I thank the Member for his intervention, but, again, there is some confusion from the Benches opposite. In one debate, there is a protection of ethos and ethos is very important, but, when it comes to this debate, ethos can go out the window if we discuss music or maths. That is not the case. We know that, very often, ethos is very important in those schools, and the DUP cherishes ethos at all times when we discuss other topics. <BR /> <BR />Going back to the point about accessibility, if that is an issue — there are certain valid points about that — it can be looked at. The process at looking at accessibility has begun. <BR /> <BR />Of course, the exemption goes back to the fair employment Orders, and there are points there. In 2009 the Equality Commission said that the exemption should be repealed, and that is an issue for OFMDFM.”
“I would understand if you could not access the certificate whatsoever if you were not a Catholic, but that is not the case. If there issues with accessibility, a cold house or whatever it might be then —”
“Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. As with my colleagues who have spoken previously, I oppose the motion and, indeed, the amendment. There has been some confusion with very many of the issues. I see three distinct issues. The amendment is disingenuous to the issue at hand. It is an overhang from a previous debate that was had in recent months and is not relevant to the motion in question. I also think that the motion is in two distinct parts, and that has been discussed. <BR /> <BR />On the last point that was touched on, of a culture of discrimination, Jim Clarke and the CCMS — this was perhaps referred to earlier — have agreed that, in principle, if a teacher takes a job, it could take up to three years to gain the certificate, but it is available online through a Glasgow university.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I thought that the Member had come in before me. <BR /> <BR />The Member said that there exists a "culture of discrimination" in education. Perhaps the Member would want to reconsider those words or outline examples of where this "culture of discrimination" exists. Go raibh maith agat.”
“We need to do that, but really what we want to see today from the Employment and Learning Minister is a strategy. Let us identify the barriers that still exist. Let us implement a strategic plan, and let us evaluate in a few years' time.”
“BT Young Scientist, of course, has now developed links with Queen's University, so perhaps there is a platform there to build this model of scholarships and role models and to go forward. <BR /> <BR />I also want to refer to the CBI 'Step Change' report, which calls for a move away from the exam factory basis of our education. There is this fear of failure; we do not allow young people the ability to explore and to fail, if necessary. That is very important, as is building partnerships with business. As important as that is, it is also important that we keep in the forefront of our minds at all times the role of women, because when it comes to exams in schools, we know that our young women are perhaps more capable than our young men in doing the exams.”
“I think another very important educational thing coming out of schools is role models. We need to develop role models for our young women in this. The Education Committee recently went to the science park, and it was great to see so many young women involved. It was exactly the same, actually, when we went to the BT Young Scientist exhibition in Dublin lately. There are a plethora of young women who have won that competition, and they are very inspiring to speak to. We spoke to the recent winner from Cork — a very inspiring young lady. We need to work out a way to get the experiences of those young women, who are international winners and went on to win in the European context as well, into our local schools as well.”
“They may not know about the changes in computer coding or ICT, so it is very important that we get careers advice right. <BR /> <BR />We have also had the Education and Training Inspectorate review of the World Around Us, which might have been touched on earlier. One of the changes to the revised curriculum gave the space to create the inquiry and everything else, but there was the thought that perhaps primary-school teachers did not have the capacity or the confidence to delve into the scientific subjects. Continuous professional development is very important. I welcome the very positive response of the Education Minister, John O'Dowd; he is willing to work around that.”
“The Education Minister, in reply to the Committee's STEM report, said recently that we are getting the balance right in qualifications; there is no real difference between young girls and boys when they sit those exams. However, there is maybe a wee bit of a difference in subject-specific areas. We have plenty of young women going towards medical sciences but maybe not enough going into engineering, technology or mathematics. <BR /> <BR />I welcome the work that the Employment and Learning Minister has done with the Department of Education on careers. It is important that the parents and teachers giving advice to our young people have the wherewithal about the changing world and the globalised workplace. It is very easy for parents sitting at home to say, "Law is a good degree" or "Go and get yourself a good history degree".”
“That shows the type of embedded bias that exists naturally about sciences; that it is a man's game. It is very important that we challenge that. As I said, with STEM becoming ever more important and present in the growth of our economy, it is very important that we tackle that. <BR /> <BR />We have seen some educational realignment in recent years for the growth of STEM. We have seen the revised curriculum, where schools are now given flexibility to allow a wider range of pupils to prosper. Vocational subjects, such as engineering and car manufacturing, are being looked at in school to draw in pupils who might have fallen by the wayside in the more academic side of things. It is important, now that we have done that, to assess whether we are getting the gender balance right.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. I welcome this important motion, and I thank my colleagues for bringing it forward. It is a huge issue, and I hope that our local media pick up on it. When we consider how instrumental STEM-related subjects and the STEM industry are becoming to our economy, the fact that up to three or four times as many men prosper in it than our local women is a massive issue, so I hope that our local media pick up on that. <BR /> <BR />When the Education Committee had a motion on STEM, I used the example of a recent 'Guardian' article where a child was sent home with a school exercise to talk about a famous scientist. They were asked questions such as, "What did he look like?", "Did he have a family?" and, "Was he married?".”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I welcome the Minister's statement, and I welcome specifically the emphasis by InterTradeIreland on assisting SMEs to build partnerships in the context of public procurement. Perhaps the Minister will provide further clarity on how she proposes to ensure that SMEs can fully benefit from island-wide procurement opportunities.”
“Stephen Farry touched on a salient point that perhaps it would be worthwhile if the purview of the Commission for the Location of Victims' Remains could be extended past 1998. Steven Agnew also touched a very important point: the often hidden problem of violence against women in conflict. That is something that we must bear in mind. <BR /> <BR />I really just want to echo the calls that other Members have made. Somebody somewhere knows something. There is nothing that is too insignificant if it can help in this case. If anybody knows anything, they should come forward and help. There is a family whose hearts have been breaking for 10 years, and, unless somebody comes forward, that could be the case for another 10 or 20 years.”